Clinton says US must face 'hard truths' about guns, race

[webfact]

Clinton says US must face 'hard truths' about guns, race
By NICHOLAS RICCARDI

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton said Thursday the country has to face "hard truths" about guns and race in the wake of a shooting at a historically black church in South Carolina that left nine dead.

"How many innocent people in our country, from little children to church members to movie theater attendees, how many people do we need to see cut down before we act?" the Democratic presidential candidate said during a speech in Las Vegas, alluding to mass shootings a Connecticut elementary school and Colorado movie theater.

Clinton spoke at a meeting of the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials, an event that afforded her the opportunity to campaign before a largely supportive crowd of Hispanic politicians. But campaign politics were overshadowed by the late Thursday slaying of nine people at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina.

Clinton had campaigned in Charleston earlier on Thursday, and said she learned of the attack after she landed in Las Vegas. As did President Barack Obama earlier in the day, Clinton said this latest incident involving the killing of several people required a reckoning with the country's history of gun violence.

"In order to make sense of it we have to be honest," she said. "We have to face hard truths about race, violence, guns and division."

The suspect in the shooting, Dylann Storm Roof, 21, was described as an apparent "disaffected white supremacist" by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The Justice Department said it had started a hate crime investigation.

The prospect that race played a role in the shooting hung over Clinton's remarks. Speaking of critics of immigrants, Clinton said: "When I hear words of hatred and anger directed at any of our fellow human beings I ask myself, 'What is motivating that?'"

In an email to supporters, Clinton's rival for the Democratic nomination, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, called the shooting "an act of terror."

"Nine of our fellow Americans were murdered while praying in a historic church because of the color of their skin," Sander said, adding: "This hateful killing is a horrific reminder that, while we have made important progress in civil rights for all of our people, we are far from eradicating racism."

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, had planned to campaign in Charleston on Thursday, but he canceled his event in the wake of the attack.

"Our hearts are broken at the senseless loss of life," Bush said in a statement. "Our prayers are for the community that has lost its pastor and a brave leader. May the families and the city of Charleston be lifted up by the prayers of our entire nation."

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who is considering a run for the Republican nomination, called the tragedy "unthinkable."

"I pray for the families of the victims, for them to have the strength to get through this awful tragedy," he said in a statement posted on social media.
___

Associated Press writers Lisa Lerer and Steve Peoples in Washington, Tom Beaumont in Washington, Iowa, and Jill Colvin in Newark, New Jersey contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-06-19

[Mango Bob]

It's seems to run in the kids family. From what I understand the father gave the kid the gun for his birthday. The kid was also on drugs. Also I guess the family thinks it's funny given the kid a middle name Storm with a last name of Roof.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Mango Bob

[MaxYakov]

The father will be laughing all the way to jail if the transfer of that firearm to his son was illegal and it was used in this multiple-murder.

HRC: "... how many people do we need to see cut down before we act?"

I wonder what her "act" would be?

If America wants to get gun violence stopped, make illegally possessing a firearm or illegally dealing in them punishable by severe penalties (including the death penalty for dealers) such as those imposed on drug possession/dealing by Asian countries.

Given the murder and mayhem perpetrated by gun violence for any number of reasons, does this position seem unreasonable?

Edited June 19, 2015 by MaxYakov

[FritsSikkink]

i don't understand why a country with a lot of believers of the bible: you shall not kill

needs that many guns.

[JakeSully]

The white wash isn't what she's saying, its what everyone else is saying:

GUNS RIGHTS GUNS RIGHTS, THE CHURCH MUST HAVE HAD 200 ARMED BODYGUARDS TO PREVENT WHACKOS, LONG LIVE USA USA USA

When people are wrong.. what do they do, shout louder, insult, make strawmen.

[MaxYakov]

i don't understand why a country with a lot of believers of the bible: you shall not kill

needs that many guns.

Yuh. And what were the Crusaders doing with all those swords and killing all those Muslims?

More to your point, how many gun owners even possess a Bible?

And how many guns are "too many"?

Maybe you should put the latter question to Hillary?

Edited June 19, 2015 by MaxYakov

[FritsSikkink]

i don't understand why a country with a lot of believers of the bible: you shall not kill

needs that many guns.

Yuh. And what were the Crusaders doing with all those swords and killing all those Muslims?

More to your point, how many gun owners even possess a Bible?

And how many guns are "too many"?

Maybe you should put the latter question to Hillary?

that shows you there are a lot of people who are full of BS

[Seastallion]

Interesting article here, http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/07/the-certainty-of-more-shootings/260133/?utm_source=SFFB.

In it, the writer quotes, "The truth is made worse by the reality that no one--really no one--anywhere on the political spectrum has the courage to speak out about the madness of unleashed guns and what they do to American life...."

Well, Hilary is just changing that now...sort of...good on her.

The whole article is good.

[timmyp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL8JEEt2RxI

[quandow]

So people who strangle someone to death should have their hands removed? Someone who knives a person to death gets all sharp objects outlawed?

Baby, you just shot yourself in the foot (pun intended). Dumb@$$!!!

Edited June 19, 2015 by quandow

[Jingthing]

She can say what she want to appeal to her base but for her to prioritize this issue in real life would be political suicide.

If nothing changed after Sandy Hook and indeed NOTHING changed, Charleston will have even LESS impact.

Not to be crass, but Sandy Hook had the "hook" of angelic small town schoolchildren to galvanize the people for change, but it didn't.

This one happened in a church but it was largely elders and then there is the race factor as well, say no more.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[timmyp]

i don't understand why a country with a lot of believers of the bible: you shall not kill

needs that many guns.

Of course because guns are awesome and fun bang bang weeeeeee! I love just shooting them! It makes me feel so powerful. And it lets me know that I am ready at anytime to take someone out in self-defense.

I am ready in case I am in a parking lot and I hear loud rap music from a car full of unarmed smart-ash teenagers. And I am ready in case an unarmed drunk woman knocks on my door early in the morning. I'm ready for when the government tries to take my land to redistribute it for its insane social programs. And I am ready for when the Islamists try to invade my city! Actually, that last part really freaks me out, I better go out and get s'more guns.

No offense to the responsible gun owners, y'all aren't the problem.

[Robby nz]

So she is the first one to come out and attempt to use this tragedy to her political advantage. Who will be next ?

[Seastallion]

So people who strangle someone to death should have their hands removed? Someone who knives a person to death gets all sharp objects outlawed?

Baby, you just shot yourself in the foot (pun intended). Dumb@$$!!!

Dum@$$ analogy, (to borrow your term). Lets say guns were outlawed 5 years ago. Do you think the tens of thousands of murders that have occurred in that time would still have occurred but with a knife?

[Seastallion]

So she is the first one to come out and attempt to use this tragedy to her political advantage. Who will be next ?

Wow...cynical.

You could be right, but hey, she's also right to bring it up.

[Benmart]

I had my first firearm in the USA in 1965 (Mom bought a Mosin-Nagant, 7.62mm rifle for me). I carried various handguns in and out of uniform until 2013 when I retired to Thailand. I've had hundreds of friends, both in and out of various uniforms, legally and lawfully, possess, carry and use their firearms.

For a non-USA citizen to comment, is certainly their right, but their credibility is diminished by their inexperience and bias. Myself and many others in my country have a distrust of Big-brother and bearing arms means that one can resist, rather than laying down and succumbing.

One only has to look at recent German history. Register the guns, then confiscate the guns. Then the masses have no means to resist. Seems to have been replayed recently in several European and Pacific countries as well.

I don't condone violence and don't have the answer. What I am fearful of, is that law abiding people in the USA will pay the penalty for those that use firearms to kill and maim others.

The hard truth from Clinton seems to be her race to the White House on the shoulders those that have been murdered and maimed by criminals using guns.

[FritsSikkink]

So people who strangle someone to death should have their hands removed? Someone who knives a person to death gets all sharp objects outlawed?

Baby, you just shot yourself in the foot (pun intended). Dumb@$$!!!

they go to jail.

[Seastallion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL8JEEt2RxI

Seems the 10% are disproportionately represented on these threads.

[FritsSikkink]

For a non-USA citizen to comment, is certainly their right, but their credibility is diminished by their inexperience and bias

that is BS as you wouldn't how it works in a country were not everybody has a gun.

do you really think your gun will help if the government comes with a fighter jet?

[Balance]

The father will be laughing all the way to jail if the transfer of that firearm to his son was illegal and it was used in this multiple-murder.

HRC: "... how many people do we need to see cut down before we act?"

I wonder what her "act" would be?

If America wants to get gun violence stopped, make illegally possessing a firearm or illegally dealing in them punishable by severe penalties (including the death penalty for dealers) such as those imposed on drug possession/dealing by Asian countries.

Given the murder and mayhem perpetrated by gun violence for any number of reasons, does this position seem unreasonable?

In the case of the U.S. "ACT" is probably no more than getting background checks enacted into federal law. But even if you do that you have to get the racist yahoos is some states to enforce the law. The far out version of "ACT" would be some sort of bio-metric trigger lock that is tied only to the person who legally bought the gun. Next, simply outlaw all of the military hardware. To do any of these these requires the Democrats to control House and Senate by enough margins to overcome the storm that would be coming from the NRA. Of course Hilary, or Bernie Sanders, needs to be elected President, as well. Barring a moral resurgence, the House is not possible until the next Census and redistricting in 2020.

[lifeincnx]

So she is the first one to come out and attempt to use this tragedy to her political advantage. Who will be next ?

Far from it and HRC is spot on. The very day it happened GOP Presidential wanna-be Rick Santorum came out and said these shootings were another "assualt on religious liberty". A-huh. A white Christian punk goes into a predominently all black congregation in South Carolina and shoots nine blacks dead because, as he put it, "You are raping our women and taking over the country."

Meanwhile, the stars and bars Confederate flag still flies over South Carolina's state capitol.

[727Sky]

The guy was a busted drug user. Also had been using prescribed psychotropic drugs with known side effects of aggressiveness and paranoia (read the labels). He was illegal in owning a gun and the guy who purchased the gun for him (it is called a strawman purchase) will be going to jail.

If you do a simple search there are between 750,000 and 1.2 million (depends on the source) where a gun is shown (not even fired) and a crime is prevented every year in the states.

If the American government tries to take the populations guns away with new laws (which are ignored by criminals anyway) it will get very interesting in the States for their are those who truly believe from their cold dead hands is the only way they will give up their right to self protection.

The drug cartels have moved into every major city in the USA. Chicago, Detroit, and any other major city (especially if a gun free zone ) weekend killings would make most places declared a war zone.

I could spend all day posting incidences about citizens stopping bad guys because they had a gun and were able to defend themselves. But it would be lost on most of our international readers. The states has that pesky thing called the Constitution and even though most of the articles are being violated every day there are those who say enough is enough especially when it comes to the 2d amendment.

Just one simple story but stuff like this happens everyday... You will not hear it unless it is covered by the local news. http://bearingarms.com/female-concealed-carrier-shoots-knife-wielding-robber-houston/

There are those who no doubt will say the woman should have just given him her money and provided sexual favors if requested... She chose to end his little crime spree right there..

Quote:

The woman, in her mid-30s, pulled into an Exxon station about 6 p.m. along FM 2100 and Saddle Creek Farms Drive.

She was in the driver’s seat when a man suddenly got into the passenger side. He pulled out a knife and demanded her cash, Harris County sheriff’s deputies said.

The woman agreed and reached over to her purse. But instead of money, she pulled out a pistol.

“She shoots him one time in the left shoulder,” Deputy Thomas Gilliland said.

The man fled, running north along FM 2100. He collapsed about a quarter-mile away. End Quote

If that had been my daughter or wife besides being glad she is OK and was able to react I would have asked her why she did not blow his frigging head off !

[sgtsabai]

You might try wacko Rick Santorum for using the terrorist attack as political fodder. This guy was a white terrorist in the sick society America has become. I would hope there will be a few black brothers awaiting the little racist's arrival in prison. I've owned and used guns most of my life for work and pleasure. Right wingers aren't the only ones owning guns and lots of them. When I moved I sold most to friends and gave my rifle I used in combat to my son so I didn't get full market price. Still well over 10,000 USD in value. AK-47, SKS I brought back from a little expense paid vacation in sunny SE Asia courtesy USMC, M-1's, M-14, M-1 carbine, .357, 2 .45's (yes god's gun Colt govt. Mod. 1911A1 with .22 conversion kit), 2 shotguns, custom long range rifles, .22's, reloading equipment and 1,000's of rounds of ammo, etc. Anti-gunners will never change their collective mind and they damn well won't change mine. While all the right wingers used scare tactics on Obama he never made an effort to ban any weapons. Hillary will and you can take that to the bank, better make that credit union, banks aren't too trustworthy. Oh, by military hardware you must be talking all the equipment the militarized police shouldn't have. While with an extensive background check and paid for license one can own real military equip, i.e. fully automatic (they aren't cheap to buy), those weapons on the civilian market are not military nor are they "assault weapons".

[vogie]

So people who strangle someone to death should have their hands removed? Someone who knives a person to death gets all sharp objects outlawed?

Baby, you just shot yourself in the foot (pun intended). Dumb@$$!!!

Stooooopid!

[Pinot]

American's believe they have the god given right to shoot each other. 35,000 gun deaths a year, because of an interpretation of the right to bear arms in the Constitution written 200 years ago.

Open carry? Are you kidding me? The NRA is responsible for these deaths. I bow to Australia who saw the destructiveness of guns and BANNED them. The United States doesn't have the balls to do it. It's a public health issue that trumps any right to bear arms crapola.

I put gun nuts in with climate change deniers and the idiots who want to ban abortions...oh yeah that's the Republican party, a sad group that calls itself human beings.

[sgtsabai]

Mr. Pinot I'm anything but a Republican, teabagger, right wing wacko and I am a gun nut as you call us. I'm a left wing militant, very pro abortions, very much in agreement with climate change and certainly no peace, love dope and good vibes person. The NRA is no longer an organization I can belong to but I was once a member before the right wing wackos took over. It was a very good organization at one time. I've many very left wing friends the same, in fact one of the most radical was one of those doing cross border ops out of NPK, ahem a few years back. While I can understand your confusion, don't ever think all those on the left are little panty waste cowards, we aren't and we will (and have) fight. I do not like or agree with the idiots that walk around showing off their "hardware", stupid macho little boys. Of course they are white so it's alright. Beware Hillary those that want to keep their guns. She is not an Obama who never tried to take guns. Check the Clinton's record in the White House on guns. I don't care how draconian the US gov't becomes, it will never confiscate guns without blood in the streets, from the left and the right.

[MaxYakov]

American's believe they have the god given right to shoot each other. 35,000 gun deaths a year, because of an interpretation of the right to bear arms in the Constitution written 200 years ago.

Open carry? Are you kidding me? The NRA is responsible for these deaths. I bow to Australia who saw the destructiveness of guns and BANNED them. The United States doesn't have the balls to do it. It's a public health issue that trumps any right to bear arms crapola.

I put gun nuts in with climate change deniers and the idiots who want to ban abortions...oh yeah that's the Republican party, a sad group that calls itself human beings.

"I bow to Australia who saw the destructiveness of guns and BANNED them."

You are a liar. But that wouldn't be unusual for a liberal, would it?

Source: Australia - Guns Facts, Figures and the Law (www.gunpolicy.org)

The estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in Australia is 3,050,000

The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) in Australia is 15.0 firearms per 100 people

There are reportedly 172,422 handguns in civilian possession in Australia

In a comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Australia ranked at No. 25

The number of registered guns in Australia is reported to be

2012: 2,750,000

2010: 2,675,785

2001: 2,165,170

Source: Library of Congress - Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Australia

"The sale, possession, and use of firearms are regulated by the Australian states and territories, with cross-border trade matters addressed at the federal level. In 1996, following the Port Arthur massacre, the federal government and the states and territories agreed to a uniform approach to firearms regulation, including a ban on certain semiautomatic and self-loading rifles and shotguns, standard licensing and permit criteria, storage requirements and inspections, and greater restrictions on the sale of firearms and ammunition. Firearms license applicants would be required to take a safety course and show a “genuine reason” for owning a firearm, which could not include self-defense. The reasons for refusing a license would include “reliable evidence of a mental or physical condition which would render the applicant unsuitable for owning, possessing or using a firearm.” A waiting period of twenty-eight days would apply to the issuing of both firearms licenses and permits to acquire each weapon."

[sgtsabai]

Max, thanks for that but please don't lump liberals. I'm no liar and I can assure you I am very, very "liberal".

[StevieH]

Mr. Pinot I'm anything but a Republican, teabagger, right wing wacko and I am a gun nut as you call us. I'm a left wing militant, very pro abortions, very much in agreement with climate change and certainly no peace, love dope and good vibes person. The NRA is no longer an organization I can belong to but I was once a member before the right wing wackos took over. It was a very good organization at one time. I've many very left wing friends the same, in fact one of the most radical was one of those doing cross border ops out of NPK, ahem a few years back. While I can understand your confusion, don't ever think all those on the left are little panty waste cowards, we aren't and we will (and have) fight. I do not like or agree with the idiots that walk around showing off their "hardware", stupid macho little boys. Of course they are white so it's alright. Beware Hillary those that want to keep their guns. She is not an Obama who never tried to take guns. Check the Clinton's record in the White House on guns. I don't care how draconian the US gov't becomes, it will never confiscate guns without blood in the streets, from the left and the right.

i don't really get this argument. if the US government really does want to come and take your guns the only blood on the streets will be that of the gun owners as the evil government will just drone the sh*t out of them all from orbit.

[MaeJoMTB]

So people who strangle someone to death should have their hands removed? Someone who knives a person to death gets all sharp objects outlawed?

Baby, you just shot yourself in the foot (pun intended). Dumb@$$!!!

The difference being that in hand to hand combat both parties have a chance of survival. With a gun it is kiss my Dumb@$$!!!

You're wrong.

Having a gun doesn't make you skilled in it's use.

I'd bet on me unarmed Vs you with a gun any day.