Clinton says US must face 'hard truths' about guns, race

[sgtsabai]

You think, I think not. The US is not going to blow up it's own country. It would be house to house, swamp to swamp, forest to forest, mountain to mountain and just how many troops are willing to shoot their fellow citizens? Also don't forget, many of us gun owners are very well trained and experienced Vets. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. Personally I don't think the right wing has anything to worry about, and most would probably fold anyway. It is the left that better watch their 6. The government is right wing in spite of all the teabagging protestation. Most of the population isn't. No, I don't think there will be any confiscation in the future, but restrictions are just around the corner, again.

[NickJ]

Part of the problem is that most people who own guns are normal law abiding people. I grew up in a area where everyone had guns.....I never shot anyone. Nobody I javee ever known has ever shot anyone.

Most of my friends are very wealthy. Positive members of society. A few are downright famous the world over.

We understand there is a huge propblem and at the core of it is the US Constitution.

I dont want to be told I cant add to my collection or not look forward to a new hunting rifle. I do not want to suffer because of murderous deranged crackheads..........I think the place to start is to very much regulate the shit out of the industry. make guns so <deleted> expensive that they cost more than an arm and a leg to purchase.....and all but get rid of the travelling gun shows.....Also laws with teeth. get picked up with an illegal gun and a mandatory 25 year prison term. Murder a person....mandatory life......Ten years from now it could be diffrent.

[sgtsabai]

We are getting a bit far afield. Pardner, you don't want to make that bet with me and I can assure you there are a couple of others on this forum you want no part of. Let's stop with the macho. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/06/victims-charleston-shooting

[Oziex1]

Once again the loony ramblings of the pro gun brigade scares me.

[sgtsabai]

Good

[F430murci]

You think, I think not. The US is not going to blow up it's own country. It would be house to house, swamp to swamp, forest to forest, mountain to mountain and just how many troops are willing to shoot their fellow citizens? Also don't forget, many of us gun owners are very well trained and experienced Vets. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. Personally I don't think the right wing has anything to worry about, and most would probably fold anyway. It is the left that better watch their 6. The government is right wing in spite of all the teabagging protestation. Most of the population isn't. No, I don't think there will be any confiscation in the future, but restrictions are just around the corner, again.

You call others wackos, but when one reads what you write . . . Love the Brad Pitt line in Seven:

I've been trying to figure something in my head, and maybe you can help me out, yeah? When a person is insane, as you clearly are, do you know that you're insane? Maybe you're just sitting around, reading "Guns and Ammo", masturbating in your own feces, do you just stop and go, "Wow! It is amazing how @@cking crazy I really am!"? Yeah. Do you guys do that?

[Estrada]

American's believe they have the god given right to shoot each other. 35,000 gun deaths a year, because of an interpretation of the right to bear arms in the Constitution written 200 years ago.

Open carry? Are you kidding me? The NRA is responsible for these deaths. I bow to Australia who saw the destructiveness of guns and BANNED them. The United States doesn't have the balls to do it. It's a public health issue that trumps any right to bear arms crapola.

I put gun nuts in with climate change deniers and the idiots who want to ban abortions...oh yeah that's the Republican party, a sad group that calls itself human beings.

"I bow to Australia who saw the destructiveness of guns and BANNED them."

You are a liar. But that wouldn't be unusual for a liberal, would it?

Source: Australia - Guns Facts, Figures and the Law (www.gunpolicy.org)

The estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in Australia is 3,050,000

The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) in Australia is 15.0 firearms per 100 people

There are reportedly 172,422 handguns in civilian possession in Australia

In a comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Australia ranked at No. 25

The number of registered guns in Australia is reported to be

2012: 2,750,000

2010: 2,675,785

2001: 2,165,170

Source: Library of Congress - Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Australia

"The sale, possession, and use of firearms are regulated by the Australian states and territories, with cross-border trade matters addressed at the federal level. In 1996, following the Port Arthur massacre, the federal government and the states and territories agreed to a uniform approach to firearms regulation, including a ban on certain semiautomatic and self-loading rifles and shotguns, standard licensing and permit criteria, storage requirements and inspections, and greater restrictions on the sale of firearms and ammunition. Firearms license applicants would be required to take a safety course and show a “genuine reason” for owning a firearm, which could not include self-defense. The reasons for refusing a license would include “reliable evidence of a mental or physical condition which would render the applicant unsuitable for owning, possessing or using a firearm.” A waiting period of twenty-eight days would apply to the issuing of both firearms licenses and permits to acquire each weapon."

In America 88.8% of the population own guns which is around 283,000,000 Guns. As a result of that culture, there are over 11,000 homicides per year in the USA. In Australia, UK and NZ ordinary citizens cannot carry hand guns without a good reason such as a gun club, need a permit to carry which is strictly controlled and certainly we cannot own assault rifles. In Australia there were 25 Homicides in 2013 while at the same time there were 11,000 in the USA. Even if Australia had the same population as the USA, that would equate to Australia only having 345 Homicides in one year against 11,000 in the USA! In the UK there are 4,277 registered guns and against that there are only 26 homicides in one year. The reason for the difference is obviously the number of guns per person. In the USA gun ownership is 88.8%, Australia only 15% and the UK only 6.6%. With over 11,000 homicides per year in the USA compared with only 26 in the UK it is about time the USA puts an end to the culture that allows its citizens the right to arm themselves to the teeth with guns, knives, assault rifles and machine guns for "protection".

[Pinot]

Mr. Pinot I'm anything but a Republican, teabagger, right wing wacko and I am a gun nut as you call us. I'm a left wing militant, very pro abortions, very much in agreement with climate change and certainly no peace, love dope and good vibes person. The NRA is no longer an organization I can belong to but I was once a member before the right wing wackos took over. It was a very good organization at one time. I've many very left wing friends the same, in fact one of the most radical was one of those doing cross border ops out of NPK, ahem a few years back. While I can understand your confusion, don't ever think all those on the left are little panty waste cowards, we aren't and we will (and have) fight. I do not like or agree with the idiots that walk around showing off their "hardware", stupid macho little boys. Of course they are white so it's alright. Beware Hillary those that want to keep their guns. She is not an Obama who never tried to take guns. Check the Clinton's record in the White House on guns. I don't care how draconian the US gov't becomes, it will never confiscate guns without blood in the streets, from the left and the right.

"She is not an Obama who never tried to take guns."

Your post concerns me for future of mankind.

[sgtsabai]

Ah, mr. 4f surfaces, knew you were sticking your 2 bits in sooner or later. The lawyer who has more money than most of us ever made in our lives. You know nothing. I've been trying to figure out something in my head, when somebody that knows nothing, never worked a real job in his life, never put his ass on the line does he masturbate to his own picture? Yes, I'm a bit insane, I get paid for PTSD thank you very much. Ahem, exactly what have you done for "your country". My not friend, come on up to Udon and say what you posted to my face, it will be fun, for me, little rich boy.

[KarenBravo]

I'm British and didn't even see my first hand-gun until I was 18 years old and saw a policeman in a European country carrying one.

For many years, I couldn't understand why the US didn't implement strict gun control. It just seemed so obvious at the time.

Unfortunately, both sides of the argument are right. If you ban guns, only the criminals will have them.

The fact is, is that gun control in the US is about a hundred years too late to be effective. There are just too many guns circulating now in the US. It wouldn't work, even if they tried.

[Pheat123]

I had my first firearm in the USA in 1965 (Mom bought a Mosin-Nagant, 7.62mm rifle for me). I carried various handguns in and out of uniform until 2013 when I retired to Thailand. I've had hundreds of friends, both in and out of various uniforms, legally and lawfully, possess, carry and use their firearms.

For a non-USA citizen to comment, is certainly their right, but their credibility is diminished by their inexperience and bias. Myself and many others in my country have a distrust of Big-brother and bearing arms means that one can resist, rather than laying down and succumbing.

One only has to look at recent German history. Register the guns, then confiscate the guns. Then the masses have no means to resist. Seems to have been replayed recently in several European and Pacific countries as well.

I don't condone violence and don't have the answer. What I am fearful of, is that law abiding people in the USA will pay the penalty for those that use firearms to kill and maim others.

The hard truth from Clinton seems to be her race to the White House on the shoulders those that have been murdered and maimed by criminals using guns.

What a load of crap

This crap only happens in the USA on a regular basis

[redandyellow]

"We have to face hard truths about race, violence, guns and division." Hilary C.

America has a "lowest common denominator component" in the neighborhood of 30%.

That is: About 30% of whites in America today are racist..

Is that a low estimate? The black people were forced to come to America as slaves. Big mistake that.

We make our own problems.

Always.

[notmyself]

So she is the first one to come out and attempt to use this tragedy to her political advantage. Who will be next ?

Fox news (official mouthpiece for the republican party) was first by claiming the murders were not race related.

Also....

According to Huckabee, the solution to the problem is more guns.

[notmyself]

NRA board member blames victim for Charleston shooting

HOUSTON (AP) A Houston attorney on the National Rifle Association's board of directors is blaming the deadly Charleston church shooting on one of the victims, saying the slain pastor had opposed concealed carry legislation as a state senator that could have saved him and his fellow worshippers.

http://www.juno-news.com/news/read/category/Top%20News/article/the_associated_press-nra_board_member_blames_victim_for_charleston_shoo-ap

As Jon Stewart alluded to a short while back. The US will spend $Ts on wars in the name of protecting American lives but will do nothing about Americans killing each other at home.

[MaeJoMTB]

The reason for the difference is obviously the number of guns per person. In the USA gun ownership is 88.8%, Australia only 15% and the UK only 6.6%. With over 11,000 homicides per year in the USA compared with only 26 in the UK it is about time the USA puts an end to the culture that allows its citizens the right to arm themselves to the teeth with guns, knives, assault rifles and machine guns for "protection".

It's not a valid comparison,

Compare Canada with the USA, two countries where gun ownership is common.

(or Somalia, South Africa)

In fact,

Now I think about it, you should be comparing two countries with a high black population.

Then you would start to get comparable murder rates. It isn't about gun ownership, it's about black people.

Edited June 20, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Jonathon]

So people who strangle someone to death should have their hands removed? Someone who knives a person to death gets all sharp objects outlawed?

Baby, you just shot yourself in the foot (pun intended). Dumb@$$!!!

Dum@$$ analogy, (to borrow your term). Lets say guns were outlawed 5 years ago. Do you think the tens of thousands of murders that have occurred in that time would still have occurred but with a knife?

It would end up just like the UK, where only criminals are allowed to have guns.

[notmyself]

It would end up just like the UK, where only criminals are allowed to have guns.

Convoluted NRA rubbish propaganda results in statements such as this. Handguns are effectively banned while gun ownership is a general sense is very heavily restricted. End result was a lowering by quite some amount, of gun crime which was already low anyway. According to your statement, criminals will be allowed, which can only mean legally allowed on the basis that illegally allowed is a meaningless statement, to own guns. If more guns results in lower gun crime/ gun related deaths then places such as the US and Somalia would indicate such. Does it? The NRA inspired BS on behalf of gun makers and propagated by the cash in pocket Republican party has poisoned your mind.

If the logic that the NRA spews out were true then mandatory gun ownership for every man, woman and child would result in close to zero gun crime. You and other gun fetishists quite simply HAVE to agree with that statement.

[FritsSikkink]

Ah, mr. 4f surfaces, knew you were sticking your 2 bits in sooner or later. The lawyer who has more money than most of us ever made in our lives. You know nothing. I've been trying to figure out something in my head, when somebody that knows nothing, never worked a real job in his life, never put his ass on the line does he masturbate to his own picture? Yes, I'm a bit insane, I get paid for PTSD thank you very much. Ahem, exactly what have you done for "your country". My not friend, come on up to Udon and say what you posted to my face, it will be fun, for me, little rich boy.

people like you proof to me that the USA needs gun control

[MaeJoMTB]

It would end up just like the UK, where only criminals are allowed to have guns.

Convoluted NRA rubbish propaganda results in statements such as this. Handguns are effectively banned while gun ownership is a general sense is very heavily restricted. End result was a lowering by quite some amount, of gun crime which was already low anyway. According to your statement, criminals will be allowed, which can only mean legally allowed on the basis that illegally allowed is a meaningless statement, to own guns. If more guns results in lower gun crime/ gun related deaths then places such as the US and Somalia would indicate such. Does it? The NRA inspired BS on behalf of gun makers and propagated by the cash in pocket Republican party has poisoned your mind.

If the logic that the NRA spews out were true then mandatory gun ownership for every man, woman and child would result in close to zero gun crime. You and other gun fetishists quite simply HAVE to agree with that statement.

Gun crime in the UK is exactly the same as it was before the ban.

The high murder rates in many countries appears to be correlated to the number of black people in the population.

[notmyself]

Gun crime in the UK is exactly the same as it was before the ban.

I shall take this on face value for argument's sake. With an additional 10 million people in the UK since the ban the figures should have gone up What, in your infinite wisdom, is the reason they have not?

The high murder rates in many countries appears to be correlated to the number of black people in the population.

Out and out racism.

[KarenBravo]

The high murder rates in many countries appears to be correlated to the number of black people in the population.

Out and out racism.

Is it?

Extract from http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

The report "The Color of Crime"

The report The Color of Crime (2005, second expanded edition) by the New Century Foundation states that while the official crime statistics show large racial differences in the United States, there are several problems which tend to cause underestimation of the racial differences. One example being "Whites" sometimes including Hispanics. Another is not adjusting for that the different racial groups differ in population size. The report reviews the more accurate statistics that is available and describes many large differences in crime rates between races. The report also examines the research on possible bias against racial minorities in the justice system and the police and concludes that bias not a significant explanation for the different racial crime rates.^[3]

It major findings were stated as:^[3]

• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
• When Blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-Blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the White rate.
• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is Black and Hispanic.
• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving Blacks and Whites, Blacks commit 85 percent and Whites commit 15 percent.
• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are Black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When Whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are Black.
• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a White than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.
• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.
• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million.
• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than Whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.

[gemguy]

How many times have we heard politicians telling the American citizens they are going to do something about the guns in America.

Then nothing really changes because they run into so much opposition to their gun control ideals and efforts to resolve a problem that grows worse by the decade.

Way too late now to change the way it is...while the gun related problems will not change for the better in respect to just how many guns are readily available to any American citizen .........if they want them for what ever purpose they want them for.

The perils of living in the USA, while surrounded by guns, is one more factor to be considered if you live in the USA.

Cheers

[gemguy]

The guy was a busted drug user. Also had been using prescribed psychotropic drugs with known side effects of aggressiveness and paranoia (read the labels). He was illegal in owning a gun and the guy who purchased the gun for him (it is called a strawman purchase) will be going to jail.

If you do a simple search there are between 750,000 and 1.2 million (depends on the source) where a gun is shown (not even fired) and a crime is prevented every year in the states.

If the American government tries to take the populations guns away with new laws (which are ignored by criminals anyway) it will get very interesting in the States for their are those who truly believe from their cold dead hands is the only way they will give up their right to self protection.

The drug cartels have moved into every major city in the USA. Chicago, Detroit, and any other major city (especially if a gun free zone ) weekend killings would make most places declared a war zone.

I could spend all day posting incidences about citizens stopping bad guys because they had a gun and were able to defend themselves. But it would be lost on most of our international readers. The states has that pesky thing called the Constitution and even though most of the articles are being violated every day there are those who say enough is enough especially when it comes to the 2d amendment.

Just one simple story but stuff like this happens everyday... You will not hear it unless it is covered by the local news. http://bearingarms.com/female-concealed-carrier-shoots-knife-wielding-robber-houston/

There are those who no doubt will say the woman should have just given him her money and provided sexual favors if requested... She chose to end his little crime spree right there..

Quote:

The woman, in her mid-30s, pulled into an Exxon station about 6 p.m. along FM 2100 and Saddle Creek Farms Drive.

She was in the driver’s seat when a man suddenly got into the passenger side. He pulled out a knife and demanded her cash, Harris County sheriff’s deputies said.

The woman agreed and reached over to her purse. But instead of money, she pulled out a pistol.

“She shoots him one time in the left shoulder,” Deputy Thomas Gilliland said.

The man fled, running north along FM 2100. He collapsed about a quarter-mile away. End Quote

If that had been my daughter or wife besides being glad she is OK and was able to react I would have asked her why she did not blow his frigging head off !

OK...you have valid points.

Now that you are cock sure of yourself concerning why exactly people should own a gun, the audience would like to hear exactly what it is that can be done about the over abundance of guns in America that are readily available to all the criminals and or nut cases that are not stopped by gun wielding heroes...such as the lady in the story example you provide.

There is no doubt that guns in the hands of citizens can stop crime.........as long as it is also understood that guns are a big factor as to the ways and means of perpetrating crimes while all to often they are heinous crimes........heinous crimes that would not have happened had there been no guns involved.

Seeing as you are a seemingly self appointed expert on the subject and adamant that more guns are the answer to thwarting criminals and criminal activities then explain at leisure how the numerous other nasty aspects of guns can be eliminated by having more guns in the hands of all the more citizens.

How then are all those other, often nasty aspects of the guns and firearms issues going to be addressed and or resolved by all the more guns in the hands of all the more citizens.

I for one, am curious to know.

Cheers

Edited June 20, 2015 by gemguy

[notmyself]

The high murder rates in many countries appears to be correlated to the number of black people in the population.

Out and out racism.

Is it?

Extract from http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

The report "The Color of Crime"

The report The Color of Crime (2005, second expanded edition) by the New Century Foundation states that while the official crime statistics show large racial differences in the United States, there are several problems which tend to cause underestimation of the racial differences. One example being "Whites" sometimes including Hispanics. Another is not adjusting for that the different racial groups differ in population size. The report reviews the more accurate statistics that is available and describes many large differences in crime rates between races. The report also examines the research on possible bias against racial minorities in the justice system and the police and concludes that bias not a significant explanation for the different racial crime rates.^%5B3%5D

It major findings were stated as:^%5B3%5D

• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
• When Blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-Blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the White rate.
• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is Black and Hispanic.
• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving Blacks and Whites, Blacks commit 85 percent and Whites commit 15 percent.
• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are Black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When Whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are Black.
• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a White than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.
• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.
• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million.
• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than Whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.

You have got to be kidding me. People with this kind of bigoted view generally come from the southern states of the US. I wonder where you are from.

[KarenBravo]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

[notmyself]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

[gemguy]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

I have read similar statistical data over the years while sooner or later you come to realize that there are a percent of the people that are or will always be involved or caught up in criminal activities.

In the USA the data is fairly accurate while commonly unbiased and simply providing the figures needed to help understand how such social problems can be addressed and resolved.

The question I always ask is this :

If the white folk ( is that racist? ) were living in reverse roles as compared to the Blacks and the Hispanics and numerous other underprivileged ethnic groups living in America....would the crime statistics be the same or similar???

A good example being the social conditions suffered by some of the European ethnic groups struggling to survive at the turn of the century before the first world war in large developing cities such as New York and Chicago.

The Russians and Ukrainians and the Irish also...don't forget the Irish...and do not forget the Italians and their Mafia and the Jewish Mafia.....who developed a reputation as criminals while perpetrating the establishment of criminal organizations ( Gangs?) while the majority of the citizens in those ethnic groups had nothing to do with crime and criminal activities but still they grew up and lived and survived in harsh social and economic conditions...and had to live with the criticisms of the nation because they were guilty by association...so to speak.

Now it is the Blacks and Hispanics, more so than the whites, who suffer the harsh social and economic conditions.

Cheers

Edited June 20, 2015 by gemguy

[notmyself]

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

Some 15% of Americans are atheist yet only 0.07% of the prison population are atheist. Why is that?

[chuckd]

American's believe they have the god given right to shoot each other. 35,000 gun deaths a year, because of an interpretation of the right to bear arms in the Constitution written 200 years ago.

Open carry? Are you kidding me? The NRA is responsible for these deaths. I bow to Australia who saw the destructiveness of guns and BANNED them. The United States doesn't have the balls to do it. It's a public health issue that trumps any right to bear arms crapola.

I put gun nuts in with climate change deniers and the idiots who want to ban abortions...oh yeah that's the Republican party, a sad group that calls itself human beings.

"I bow to Australia who saw the destructiveness of guns and BANNED them."

You are a liar. But that wouldn't be unusual for a liberal, would it?

Source: Australia - Guns Facts, Figures and the Law (www.gunpolicy.org)

The estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in Australia is 3,050,000

The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) in Australia is 15.0 firearms per 100 people

There are reportedly 172,422 handguns in civilian possession in Australia

In a comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Australia ranked at No. 25

The number of registered guns in Australia is reported to be

2012: 2,750,000

2010: 2,675,785

2001: 2,165,170

Source: Library of Congress - Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Australia

"The sale, possession, and use of firearms are regulated by the Australian states and territories, with cross-border trade matters addressed at the federal level. In 1996, following the Port Arthur massacre, the federal government and the states and territories agreed to a uniform approach to firearms regulation, including a ban on certain semiautomatic and self-loading rifles and shotguns, standard licensing and permit criteria, storage requirements and inspections, and greater restrictions on the sale of firearms and ammunition. Firearms license applicants would be required to take a safety course and show a “genuine reason” for owning a firearm, which could not include self-defense. The reasons for refusing a license would include “reliable evidence of a mental or physical condition which would render the applicant unsuitable for owning, possessing or using a firearm.” A waiting period of twenty-eight days would apply to the issuing of both firearms licenses and permits to acquire each weapon."

In America 88.8% of the population own guns which is around 283,000,000 Guns. As a result of that culture, there are over 11,000 homicides per year in the USA. In Australia, UK and NZ ordinary citizens cannot carry hand guns without a good reason such as a gun club, need a permit to carry which is strictly controlled and certainly we cannot own assault rifles. In Australia there were 25 Homicides in 2013 while at the same time there were 11,000 in the USA. Even if Australia had the same population as the USA, that would equate to Australia only having 345 Homicides in one year against 11,000 in the USA! In the UK there are 4,277 registered guns and against that there are only 26 homicides in one year. The reason for the difference is obviously the number of guns per person. In the USA gun ownership is 88.8%, Australia only 15% and the UK only 6.6%. With over 11,000 homicides per year in the USA compared with only 26 in the UK it is about time the USA puts an end to the culture that allows its citizens the right to arm themselves to the teeth with guns, knives, assault rifles and machine guns for "protection".

How about a link to that obviously incorrect 88.8% number?

[MaeJoMTB]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

So people with dark skin are more likely to engage in criminal behaviour right?

That isn't what we said at all, it appears to be a black problem, not a coloured problem.

And as for being a racist, don't see that pointing out a clear correlation is racist.

Especially as my own wife and children aren't white.