Overpriced medical care could bring down Thai health system

[Thai at Heart]

I know some practising chirugians in BKK who only work for farang in private hospitals and i agree they make a huge amount of money. Even their collegues from the West can only dream of that.

All medical staff deserves a proper salary in my opinion but the ones who want to become millionaires should have become bankers. I don't understand why medical staff in the West (and also in Thailand it seems) has become so greedy.

What stops you to become a surgeon yourself and become a millionair also?

Maybe the 6 years of medical school with 60+ hour work weeks followed by 4 years of specialisation with 80+ hour workweeks (I know one doctor who is currently specializing to become a surgeon and he makes 20 hour workDAYS regularly). If you can get in at least, as they do require you to be at the top of your class to even be considered to enter.

And the pay during those 10 years? Most get paid so little that they need to find side jobs during that period if their parents don't send money (taking shifts in the hospital where they study or a nearby hospital).

Bob,

Your post is perfect - I have no idea what most of the people on this thread are talking about. The prices I see at Bangkok hospital for top service with often Western educated specialists is a fraction of the US costs.

As an example seeing a Western trained specialist for an appointment that is scheduled for up to a half an hour is 600 baht with no insurance. So just under $20. A similar important in the US would be a large multiple of $20.

Medicine at the hospital pharmacy is more expensive than an outside pharmacy so I get what they call a passport which is a summary of your prescribed medicine which I then take to an outside pharmacy - no problem no pressure.

All this price comparison means little until something goes wrong. The reason that the care is so expensive in the USA is liability insurance.

Go and see how well compensated u are in Thailand if there is negligence versus elsewhere in the world. So, u are rolling a dice.

In the USA you would be compensated with millions of USD. In Thailand you would be compensated with barely million of baht. This is the fundamental reason for the difference in pricing with overseas.

One would have to conclude that the private hospitals here are gouging horribly since one can get the same surgeon in a different building for massively reduced rates. Does Brumrungrad hold some global insurance policy against negligence? I think not.

[dageurreotype]

The Thai mantra, is greed.

That pretty much sums it up.

It use to be "cheaper " but from personal experience I find it is the same if not more expansive now.

Shoulder surgery Bkk Hospital- close to 500k

Shoulder surgery in Sydney Australia, private room -$16000,close to 500k

The only competitive prices remain is the physio and dental, everything else is about the price of Western countries

Add to this their attitude when operations go wrong, at least in the West the will try to correct any issues, here they ask you to pay again for "their" mistake.

Funny you mention it, this was the case with me.

They were nice enough though to offer 5 % discount

Anyone who's built a house here knows this is standard practice for Thais. Screw something up and you must pay to replace the materials and pay them again to replace them.

[dageurreotype]

Far too many cases of sheer exploitation of people's distress is becoming a legend in Phuket. It is now one of the main topics of discussion on social occasions - bringing a very bad name to the medical profession and Thailand. One recent case - a worried couple were charged 4,500 baht by the small clinic at Laguna (canal village) for five-minute "treatment" of a young child who had been stung by a jelly fish on the beach at the Outrigger resort. The parents told everyone that the shock of the bill was almost as much as the incident on the beach

Phuket's hospitals are now all owned by the same company, bar the Government Vachira aka 'The Slaughterhouse' and small and tatty 'semi private' Mission. So 'an anti monopoly commission should be set up here. On the plus side, when they tried to charge the same prices as their main Bankok Hospital at their newly acquired Siriroj Hospital, they were market forced to lessen the prices again. BH 2,000 baht for an x-ray, Siriroj - 700 baht. I also hear from a previous member of staff at Siriroj that quality of care has weakened due to 'selfishness' resulting from their new owners attitude to health care. Money making only. Bangkok Hospital on Phuket is widely known as a 'mill'. I wouldn't go back there if they paid me.

[dageurreotype]

But surely medical tourism is not a justifiable excuse for charging the same fees for Thai and Expat patients

There is no recognition of 'expat' status here. None. Unless you're one of a handful who have been granted residency, you're a tourist. We all are. Even after 20,30 years. Having to apply for tourist extensions of stay (based on whatever) each and every year should be a clue.

[mike324]

The Thai mantra, is greed.

That pretty much sums it up.

It use to be "cheaper " but from personal experience I find it is the same if not more expansive now.

Shoulder surgery Bkk Hospital- close to 500k

Shoulder surgery in Sydney Australia, private room -$16000,close to 500k

The only competitive prices remain is the physio and dental, everything else is about the price of Western countries

dental at big hospitals or reputable dental hospitals are also comparable to the west, root canals can run anywhere from $5000 to $7000. But basic service such as cleaning is still affordable.

[Hans vliege]

Hij,

My Thai wife have a gouvernement card for 30 Baht, and we go to a hospital in Hua Hin, the Hua Hin Hospital. Excellent treatment, doctors are very friendly and take there time for us when we come for controle my wifes her pragnecy. He explane everything in Thai and in Emglish.

About 2 years before, a dog bite me, the ambulance bring me to Bangkok Hospital, the dog make terible wounds on different places of my body. They give me about 120 injections becourse they where afraid for crazy dog disseas.

Price more than 120.000 baht!!!!!!!! YES i Wright ONE HONDERD TWENTY THOUSAND BAHT.

Next time I know if I need a hospital what hospital I am going to!

Same medicine I need for my hart and sucker, in Bangkok hospital alway have to check by a doctor before I can get my medicine, and I have to pay the doctor as well. If I go to a medicine store in Hua Hin and I ask for the same medicine I have to pay 3500 Baht, the same medicine they send me by post from the village of my wife I Pay only 2500 baht.

So I think it's just shopping for good care and a good price.

Last thing is the enormous price you have to pay af a foreigner when you want assurance for your healt. About 370 - 450 euro a month and they don't pay for things you had before? Mister president, Falangs bring a lot of money to Thailand, every month again, why can't you make a good offer for assurance for them??????

[SunsetT]

I noticed when having minor treatment at AEK Udon Thani that you are escorted to the cashier to pay your bill BEFORE you collect your big bag of prescribed medicine most of which, e.g: vitimin C, you dont need or can buy for half the price at any pharmacy. There is then much less likelyhood that patients will question this and go back and ask for a refund........Its the old 'losing face' problem yet again!

[Larry001]

Sadly, Thailand appears to be in a rapid downward spiral in many areas....airlines, tourism (apart from Chinese groups thatmake the figures look good),international business is pulling out, an over supply of condos that cannot be sold etc etc

[stoli]

The Thai mantra, is greed.

How in the world could you put focus on the Thai system? Have you never had medical treatment in the US? I paid $1,000 a month for insurance. When I had a stent put in, I spent a whole 20 hours in the hospital. Hospital charged $48,000, and my insurance, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, paid $12,000. I paid the other $36,000. Then they raised my premiums to $3,000 a month, because of the stent.

I find the facilities in Thailand to be better than the states, and the doctors to be top notch. Most of the ones that worked on me here also went to school in the states, and worked there afterwards before returning to Thailand. This country is first class in medical care.

If you want to bash Thai's just for fun, go after the jet ski operators. If you want to bash Thai's because you bash everyone, go home, or stay off of TV, please. This is not a mandate, just a request.There are plenty of farangs in the beers bars that will listen to you, and they will dislike you just as much as anyone. Get positive. Start to enjoy life. Life here is good......

[Tony125]

My wife's experience needing ESWL treatment for kidney stones was that the big American hospital in BKK was at least 6 times cheaper than what we would have paid in the US.

Two sessions of ESWL 80k THB for first session, 20k THB for second (plus some incidental's total 120k) In the US it would have easily cost over 500k THB for the same treatment.

We went to at least five different hospitals, some suggesting two nights stay, others suggesting treatment for over a month. We ended back at my first choice (wife had to shop around) and found it to be the best option.

The experienced Urologist we found laughed and said one treatment with a second follow-up in three days to ensure the stone was removed.

I would find it very difficult to believe the private hospitals in Bangkok come anywhere close to the US costs.

Prices may be higher than in some European hospitals but not US. I had a heart attach a little over a year ago, am fine now but I needed an angioplasty to open up a valve and stent. Total for emrgency treatment,operation and stay at Vibawadi private hospital in Bangkokj $8,000 USD ---I priced the treatment in US from my insurance provider they said it would have cost $47,000 in the US.

[cumgranosalum]

and again we have the "experts" on medical care whose only criteria seem to be price and the fact they are alive to tell the story.

Remember - the plural of anecdote is not data!

[wwest5829]

For what it is worth....and I am not declaring to be all seeing... Thailand has the great opportunity of further promoting itself for medical tourism. The reputation has already been recognized. Now is the time to use some intelligence to do the research of 1st world medical costs, research the real Thai costs of providing the medial services and then setting prices to reflect the "Sweet Spot". This would be finding the best range of offering medical services at a great savings to the 1st world customer. In consultation with the private hospitals serving these patients, packages including recovery time at Thai resorts would be a great boon to attracting more patients. The Thai government hospitals could find their "Sweet Spot" by offering a savings (with possible less than five star recovery spots). I see a great growth market here with the aging populations of the 1st world.

And additional market also needs attention. Those of us retired residents of Thailand need to be offered a reasonably priced medical policy. Private international insurance is too expensive for many. The Thai health services could be offering a better priced coverage and still more than cover their costs. This would further encourage retirees (of at least modest means) to come to Thailand. Think of the potential growth of assisted living facilities. Well, just some thoughts for Thais to consider.

[skildpadden]

I know some practising chirugians in BKK who only work for farang in private hospitals and i agree they make a huge amount of money. Even their collegues from the West can only dream of that.

All medical staff deserves a proper salary in my opinion but the ones who want to become millionaires should have become bankers. I don't understand why medical staff in the West (and also in Thailand it seems) has become so greedy.

What stops you to become a surgeon yourself and become a millionair also?

Maybe the 6 years of medical school with 60+ hour work weeks followed by 4 years of specialisation with 80+ hour workweeks (I know one doctor who is currently specializing to become a surgeon and he makes 20 hour workDAYS regularly). If you can get in at least, as they do require you to be at the top of your class to even be considered to enter.

And the pay during those 10 years? Most get paid so little that they need to find side jobs during that period if their parents don't send money (taking shifts in the hospital where they study or a nearby hospital).

Bob,

Your post is perfect - I have no idea what most of the people on this thread are talking about. The prices I see at Bangkok hospital for top service with often Western educated specialists is a fraction of the US costs.

As an example seeing a Western trained specialist for an appointment that is scheduled for up to a half an hour is 600 baht with no insurance. So just under $20. A similar important in the US would be a large multiple of $20.

Medicine at the hospital pharmacy is more expensive than an outside pharmacy so I get what they call a passport which is a summary of your prescribed medicine which I then take to an outside pharmacy - no problem no pressure.

All this price comparison means little until something goes wrong. The reason that the care is so expensive in the USA is liability insurance.

Go and see how well compensated u are in Thailand if there is negligence versus elsewhere in the world. So, u are rolling a dice.

In the USA you would be compensated with millions of USD. In Thailand you would be compensated with barely million of baht. This is the fundamental reason for the difference in pricing with overseas.

One would have to conclude that the private hospitals here are gouging horribly since one can get the same surgeon in a different building for massively reduced rates. Does Brumrungrad hold some global insurance policy against negligence? I think not.

On their website they say: "The hospital and all Bumrungrad physicians carry full liability insurance"

https://www.bumrungrad.com/BIHFiles/17/17f83143-182b-4ca0-b22e-cb3794702f8a.pdf

[utkb]

For myself I look at the difference in pricing between the Thai Hospital's and American Hospital's as creating a classic arbitrage opportunity. Medical tourism is a relatively recent phenomena, and one that hasn't taken much hold in America.

I myself, would not have considered it 10 years ago (before going expat), but now would fully support any opportunity to do so. In fact I believe it is only a matter of time before US insurers offer American's a business class ticket plus 1 week of recuperation in some resort for some procedures. They would surely come out ahead, saving millions of dollars if it caught on.

Of course, like any arbitrage, prices would have to come to an equilibrium at some point.

So to the point of this article, medical tourism will eventually increase the cost of private hospitals in Thailand as long as there are other markets that have significantly higher costs.

[skildpadden]

For myself I look at the difference in pricing between the Thai Hospital's and American Hospital's as creating a classic arbitrage opportunity. Medical tourism is a relatively recent phenomena, and one that hasn't taken much hold in America.

I myself, would not have considered it 10 years ago (before going expat), but now would fully support any opportunity to do so. In fact I believe it is only a matter of time before US insurers offer American's a business class ticket plus 1 week of recuperation in some resort for some procedures. They would surely come out ahead, saving millions of dollars if it caught on.

Of course, like any arbitrage, prices would have to come to an equilibrium at some point.

So to the point of this article, medical tourism will eventually increase the cost of private hospitals in Thailand as long as there are other markets that have significantly higher costs.

I agree - insurance companies should be encouraged to provide the option to their insured to take advantage of other countries' less expensive medical servcies. While there might be some inconvenience for the consumer, including taking vacation days and the insurance companies could then share some of the savings with the consumer.

In addition or in the alternative, the governments could buy the needed medial services on bulkat a discount and sell them to insurance companies at a small markup.

[tonray]

The government is right to be looking into the issue of price gouging and should also be examining the relationship with the health care insurers. I recently had a small procedure done at a private hospital and the initial estimate was 75,000 baht. When they discovered I had insurance from BUPA the price dropped to about 45,000 baht (pay now, claim later). OK, I had the money to pay this and will be refunded, but someone without the insurance would be gouged 30,000 baht by the hospital.

As a business relationship I can see there would be a discount applied to an insurance company, but nearly 50% tells you something doesn't it?

This same exact issue happens in the USA every day. Insurance companies negotiate lower rates for their customers. I was forced to pay for a $2000 CAT scan in America because my limits on diagnostic procedures was only $500. But had I been covered, the insurance company would have only paid the hospital only $900.

[Balance]

The American Medicare system, providing comprehensive health care to some 44 million people is arguably the largest and best healthcare delivery system in the world. The Medicare system also sets the pricing standards for most of the private insurance companies. Pharmaceuticals are priced in two tiers, generics and those still covered under patent laws. There is sometimes a factor of 3 or 4 between what a doctor or hospital charges for a given service and what Medicare pays. All hospitals except Medicare patients but some doctors want to get paid their full fee and so do not participate with Medicare. Patients who want to go to those doctors pay the full price, but I would guess it is a small percentage of the total. There are fees for services until the maximum amount is reached Seeing any doctor costs 150 Bhat. All lab services per visit, 600 Bhat, X-Ray, 1,200 Bhat, MRI, CT, PET, 5,000 Bhat.

As an example, on an annual basis, the maximum I can be charged for ANY and ALL services provided is $4,500, or about 150,000 TB, and if a person is poor, they may only have to pay some or nothing. Public hospitals are typically associated with Medical schools for the training of doctors under the supervision. This is similar to the system in Thailand.

There are four categories of delivery:

(1) private doctors in there own offices who have admitting privileges at one or more private or non-profits hospitals;

(2) Integrated facilities, like the Cleveland and Mayo clinics, or Kaiser, where all care is delivered under one roof and the doctors are salaried and do not get there income from individual fees.

(3) Private and Non-Profit hospitals that do business with private doctors, but who increasingly enter into contracts with larger group practices for negotiated fee structure. These hospitals increasingly require that surgeons and other specialists using the hospital accept Medicare and Medicaid. If not then the patients end up getting very large bills and it is very bad PR for the hospitals.

The problem with the Thai system right now is this irresponsible need for Thais to charge two different prices, one for Thais and one for foreigners. It would vastly simplify the problems if there was one fee and what was paid was a negotiated with hospitals based on the cost structure of the institution. In effect the Government controls costs by setting not the price charged, but the amount paid. This leaves room, if it is wanted, for a second tier for the rich to do what they want for the doctors and facilities to soak them for all they can.

[cumgranosalum]

What stops you to become a surgeon yourself and become a millionair also?

Maybe the 6 years of medical school with 60+ hour work weeks followed by 4 years of specialisation with 80+ hour workweeks (I know one doctor who is currently specializing to become a surgeon and he makes 20 hour workDAYS regularly). If you can get in at least, as they do require you to be at the top of your class to even be considered to enter.

And the pay during those 10 years? Most get paid so little that they need to find side jobs during that period if their parents don't send money (taking shifts in the hospital where they study or a nearby hospital).

Bob,

Your post is perfect - I have no idea what most of the people on this thread are talking about. The prices I see at Bangkok hospital for top service with often Western educated specialists is a fraction of the US costs.

As an example seeing a Western trained specialist for an appointment that is scheduled for up to a half an hour is 600 baht with no insurance. So just under $20. A similar important in the US would be a large multiple of $20.

Medicine at the hospital pharmacy is more expensive than an outside pharmacy so I get what they call a passport which is a summary of your prescribed medicine which I then take to an outside pharmacy - no problem no pressure.

All this price comparison means little until something goes wrong. The reason that the care is so expensive in the USA is liability insurance.

Go and see how well compensated u are in Thailand if there is negligence versus elsewhere in the world. So, u are rolling a dice.

In the USA you would be compensated with millions of USD. In Thailand you would be compensated with barely million of baht. This is the fundamental reason for the difference in pricing with overseas.

One would have to conclude that the private hospitals here are gouging horribly since one can get the same surgeon in a different building for massively reduced rates. Does Brumrungrad hold some global insurance policy against negligence? I think not.

On their website they say: "The hospital and all Bumrungrad physicians carry full liability insurance"

https://www.bumrungrad.com/BIHFiles/17/17f83143-182b-4ca0-b22e-cb3794702f8a.pdf

Say what they like - they is virtually no comeback in Thai healthcare.....as for having an authority even to monitor the behaviour of doctors and other medical practitioners....no such thing within the government.

[cumgranosalum]

What stops you to become a surgeon yourself and become a millionair also?

Maybe the 6 years of medical school with 60+ hour work weeks followed by 4 years of specialisation with 80+ hour workweeks (I know one doctor who is currently specializing to become a surgeon and he makes 20 hour workDAYS regularly). If you can get in at least, as they do require you to be at the top of your class to even be considered to enter.

And the pay during those 10 years? Most get paid so little that they need to find side jobs during that period if their parents don't send money (taking shifts in the hospital where they study or a nearby hospital).

Bob,

Your post is perfect - I have no idea what most of the people on this thread are talking about. The prices I see at Bangkok hospital for top service with often Western educated specialists is a fraction of the US costs.

As an example seeing a Western trained specialist for an appointment that is scheduled for up to a half an hour is 600 baht with no insurance. So just under $20. A similar important in the US would be a large multiple of $20.

Medicine at the hospital pharmacy is more expensive than an outside pharmacy so I get what they call a passport which is a summary of your prescribed medicine which I then take to an outside pharmacy - no problem no pressure.

All this price comparison means little until something goes wrong. The reason that the care is so expensive in the USA is liability insurance.

Go and see how well compensated u are in Thailand if there is negligence versus elsewhere in the world. So, u are rolling a dice.

In the USA you would be compensated with millions of USD. In Thailand you would be compensated with barely million of baht. This is the fundamental reason for the difference in pricing with overseas.

One would have to conclude that the private hospitals here are gouging horribly since one can get the same surgeon in a different building for massively reduced rates. Does Brumrungrad hold some global insurance policy against negligence? I think not.

On their website they say: "The hospital and all Bumrungrad physicians carry full liability insurance"

https://www.bumrungrad.com/BIHFiles/17/17f83143-182b-4ca0-b22e-cb3794702f8a.pdf

Say what they like - they is virtually no comeback in Thai healthcare.....as for having an authority even to monitor the behaviour of doctors and other medical practitioners....no such thing within the government.

I doubt if their cover costs much at all as the chances of successfully suing a doctor in Thailand are minimal....and be prepared to wait for 10 years or more to get a result - which in turn will be a tiny pay out.

Edited June 22, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[Balance]

For myself I look at the difference in pricing between the Thai Hospital's and American Hospital's as creating a classic arbitrage opportunity. Medical tourism is a relatively recent phenomena, and one that hasn't taken much hold in America.

I myself, would not have considered it 10 years ago (before going expat), but now would fully support any opportunity to do so. In fact I believe it is only a matter of time before US insurers offer American's a business class ticket plus 1 week of recuperation in some resort for some procedures. They would surely come out ahead, saving millions of dollars if it caught on.

Of course, like any arbitrage, prices would have to come to an equilibrium at some point.

So to the point of this article, medical tourism will eventually increase the cost of private hospitals in Thailand as long as there are other markets that have significantly higher costs.

I agree - insurance companies should be encouraged to provide the option to their insured to take advantage of other countries' less expensive medical servcies. While there might be some inconvenience for the consumer, including taking vacation days and the insurance companies could then share some of the savings with the consumer.

In addition or in the alternative, the governments could buy the needed medial services on bulkat a discount and sell them to insurance companies at a small markup.

I first heard of United and Prudential offering ensured these choices 12 years or more ago, when I worked for a health care consulting firm. Most popular were hip replacements.

[utkb]

For myself I look at the difference in pricing between the Thai Hospital's and American Hospital's as creating a classic arbitrage opportunity. Medical tourism is a relatively recent phenomena, and one that hasn't taken much hold in America.

I myself, would not have considered it 10 years ago (before going expat), but now would fully support any opportunity to do so. In fact I believe it is only a matter of time before US insurers offer American's a business class ticket plus 1 week of recuperation in some resort for some procedures. They would surely come out ahead, saving millions of dollars if it caught on.

Of course, like any arbitrage, prices would have to come to an equilibrium at some point.

So to the point of this article, medical tourism will eventually increase the cost of private hospitals in Thailand as long as there are other markets that have significantly higher costs.

I agree - insurance companies should be encouraged to provide the option to their insured to take advantage of other countries' less expensive medical servcies. While there might be some inconvenience for the consumer, including taking vacation days and the insurance companies could then share some of the savings with the consumer.

In addition or in the alternative, the governments could buy the needed medial services on bulkat a discount and sell them to insurance companies at a small markup.

I first heard of United and Prudential offering ensured these choices 12 years or more ago, when I worked for a health care consulting firm. Most popular were hip replacements.

Thanks I thought some were doing this, just didn't have the data.

I suspect there must be strong cultural fears for most Americans to travel so the uptake maybe slow. But I can see this picking up as the world becomes flatter.

[oldsailor35]

The Thai mantra, is greed.

You have to be joking. They don't come close to the out of control health care greed in the US. And in those countries that provide "free" or subsidized medical care, services are being cut back and the governments funding the services are sinking under debt that is unlikely ever to be repaid.

And in the US, potentially life-saving medical procedures are routinely withheld from those who can't afford them. Even those who pay for expensive insurance coverage are not really protected. Insurance companies can decided with a flip of the coin whether or not to pay for anything out of the ordinary.

How any farang can come to Thailand and "see" greed here as if it didn't exist on a far higher scale in his own country ought to be amazing ... but then this is Thai Visa where posters wear rose colored glasses when thinking about the farang paradise from which they fled as economic refugees and now they wile away their time in Thailand sitting by the pool, looking for things to criticize.

Your sarcasm does not prove your point.

[Arkady]

Time was that medical care was much cheaper than private medicine in the UK but the gap has narrowed considerably. I had a procedure at a private hospital in London a few years ago that cost GBP 3,000. I doubt whether it could have been done for the baht equivalent in Bkk. Anyway the main reason I went to the UK was because the specialist at BNH Hospital Bangkok was unable to diagnose the problem, despite conducting numerous tests on expensive equipment. The British specialist made the correct diagnosis by physical examination in his consulting room within a few minutes. So for me whatever it cost in the UK was worth it to put an end to two years of pain and useless tests and medication prescribed by incompetent Thai physicians.

Consultations used to be very cheap in Thai hospitals, compared to no less than GBP200 a visit in London. But the cost of consultations has crept up in Thai private hospitals and is no longer B500 a visit.

The mark-up on drugs is the most iniquitous thing at Thai private hospitals. I recently picked up a package from the hospital pharmacy for colonoscopy preparation that included 2 litres of highly priced bottled water to mix the powder with, as if I am too stupid to measure it out for myself. UK private clinics are obliged by law to give the patient a prescription and tell them they have the choice to fill it at a pharmacy of their choice or at the clinic or hospital pharmacy. Only a few exotic drugs cannot be obtained in high street pharmacies on demand. Even then, you could order them, if you have to take them regularly.

[sambum]

The government is right to be looking into the issue of price gouging and should also be examining the relationship with the health care insurers. I recently had a small procedure done at a private hospital and the initial estimate was 75,000 baht. When they discovered I had insurance from BUPA the price dropped to about 45,000 baht (pay now, claim later). OK, I had the money to pay this and will be refunded, but someone without the insurance would be gouged 30,000 baht by the hospital.

As a business relationship I can see there would be a discount applied to an insurance company, but nearly 50% tells you something doesn't it?

Actually, I have found the reverse to be the opposite. As a pensioner, I find that medical insurance is unaffordable here in Thailand, and when I mention that fact, the price quoted for treatment immediately drops, presumably because they know that it will be "cash in hand" rather than having to go through the rigmarole of filling out claim forms, and waiting for the money.

You know what Thais are like - they would rather have 100 baht today than 200 baht tomorrow!.

[Peterbkk7]

The overpricing is taking ridiculous proportions in private hospitals.

The entire system is designed to extract the maximum amount of money from the patient/customer.

It is just as if they were testing how far they can go. How expensive they can charge, until one day the system breaks down. It is all about greed.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Peterbkk7

[Tomtomtom69]

The Thai mantra, is greed.

That pretty much sums it up.

It use to be "cheaper " but from personal experience I find it is the same if not more expansive now.

Shoulder surgery Bkk Hospital- close to 500k

Shoulder surgery in Sydney Australia, private room -$16000,close to 500k

The only competitive prices remain is the physio and dental, everything else is about the price of Western countries

Not only that but in Australia more than likely, using either Medicare or private health insurance such as MediBank Private you wouldn't be paying $16000. You'd get most of that back through insurance and only be say $2000 out of pocket. And unlike in Thailand, even if you do have insurance, it's not a case of pay first claim later either. It's claim on the spot.

[Tomtomtom69]

The Thai mantra, is greed.

You have to be joking. They don't come close to the out of control health care greed in the US. And in those countries that provide "free" or subsidized medical care, services are being cut back and the governments funding the services are sinking under debt that is unlikely ever to be repaid.

And in the US, potentially life-saving medical procedures are routinely withheld from those who can't afford them. Even those who pay for expensive insurance coverage are not really protected. Insurance companies can decided with a flip of the coin whether or not to pay for anything out of the ordinary.

How any farang can come to Thailand and "see" greed here as if it didn't exist on a far higher scale in his own country ought to be amazing ... but then this is Thai Visa where posters wear rose colored glasses when thinking about the farang paradise from which they fled as economic refugees and now they wile away their time in Thailand sitting by the pool, looking for things to criticize.

Your sarcasm does not prove your point.

I think suradit should realize he's the one with the rose coloured glasses on. Oh yeah let's come to Thailand and then speak badly of the country you came from as if it will endear you more to the local population who really don't give a crap or at the very least are confused why anyone from a highly developed country would speak so badly of their home country? And then to have their heads in the sand when it comes to obvious things like Thais ripping off the vulnerable, and not shy to extract that extra buck from the "farang". Greed in Thailand IS far greater than in many other countries. Only apologists would think otherwise.

[slerickson]

Lots of anecdotal references to over charges. I've only been to 3 hospitals for outpatient care about a half dozen times. McCormick, RAM in CM and one in Lamphun. Service was very good and compared to US hospitals it was very cheap.

Is surgery a ripoff or do people just love to bitch.

[Soutpeel]

The Thai mantra, is greed.

How in the world could you put focus on the Thai system? Have you never had medical treatment in the US? I paid $1,000 a month for insurance. When I had a stent put in, I spent a whole 20 hours in the hospital. Hospital charged $48,000, and my insurance, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, paid $12,000. I paid the other $36,000. Then they raised my premiums to $3,000 a month, because of the stent.

I find the facilities in Thailand to be better than the states, and the doctors to be top notch. Most of the ones that worked on me here also went to school in the states, and worked there afterwards before returning to Thailand. This country is first class in medical care.

If you want to bash Thai's just for fun, go after the jet ski operators. If you want to bash Thai's because you bash everyone, go home, or stay off of TV, please. This is not a mandate, just a request.There are plenty of farangs in the beers bars that will listen to you, and they will dislike you just as much as anyone. Get positive. Start to enjoy life. Life here is good......

The fact is one suspects, most of the persons bleating have never been in the private health care/insurance side of things, they are used to "free" or subsidised medical care as they where getting in their home countries and now in Thailand they expect a similar thing to occur at Thai private hospitals, which are run as a business, they have no concept of how private medical operates worldwide.

As regards my experiences at Thai hospitals, they echo some of the comments you have made.

the private hospitals are good, facilities excellent, care is very good, better than I received in private hospitals in my time working in farangistan countries..

Some further observations

Never been charged double the price of Thai or an invoice loaded just because I was a farang and/or had insurance at the likes of BPH or other hospitals in this group, example

Mrs S who is a Thai national = MRI at BPH, without Mr S in tow = THB 12k

Mr who is farang = MRI at Bangkok Rayong, without Mrs S in tow, some 12 months later = THB 12500

All paid for on medical insurance, so no double pricing or loading there

Dental work at BPH - Mr S and Mrs S.....actual prices came in lower than their original estimates, prices paid similar for Mr S and Mrs S

Surgery at Bangkok Rayong inclusive of hospital stay Mr S....actual cost lower than estimate and my insurance out of the UK even stated how cheap it was as they were expecting more invoices and were quite surprised when told that was the total cost even with follow up visits

another surgery at BRH (day admission) price was exactly what they quoted/indicated it would be.....cost excessive ? not in my opinion or my insurance company

[Soutpeel]

Lots of anecdotal references to over charges. I've only been to 3 hospitals for outpatient care about a half dozen times. McCormick, RAM in CM and one in Lamphun. Service was very good and compared to US hospitals it was very cheap.

Is surgery a ripoff or do people just love to bitch.

One suspects they just like to bitch, having had surgery in Thailand, in comparison to private medical care in farangistan it is cheap