SC governor: Removing Confederate flag will defy race hatred

[webfact]

SC governor: Removing Confederate flag will defy race hatred
By SEANNA ADCOX, JEFFREY COLLINS and MEG KINNARD

CHARLESTON, S.C. (AP) — South Carolina's governor declared Monday that the Confederate flag should be removed from the Statehouse grounds, reflecting what she described as a new consensus that the slaying of nine black churchgoers has changed what the banner stands for.

Gov. Nikki Haley's about-face comes just days after authorities charged Dylann Storm Roof, 21, with murder. The white man appeared in photos waving holding Confederate flags and burning or desecrating U.S. flags, and purportedly wrote of fomenting racial violence. Survivors told police he hurled racial insults during the attack.

"The murderer now locked up in Charleston said he hoped his actions would start a race war. We have an opportunity to show that not only was he wrong, but that just the opposite is happening," she said, flanked by Democrats and Republicans, blacks and whites who joined her call.

"My hope is that by removing a symbol that divides us, we can move our state forward in harmony, and we can honor the nine blessed souls who are now in Heaven," Haley said.

The massacre inside the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church has suddenly made removing the flag — long thought politically impossible in South Carolina — the go-to position, even for politicians who have counted on the votes of disaffected white people in Republican primaries.

Haley was flanked by U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham, now running for president, as well as South Carolina's junior senator, Tim Scott, and its only black congressman, Democratic Rep. Jim Clyburn. Within moments, her call was echoed by the Republican Party chairman and the top GOP lawmaker, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Haley urged the state's GOP-led House and Senate to debate the issue no later than this summer. If not, she said she will call a special session and force them to resolve it. "I will use that authority for the purpose of the legislature removing the flag from the statehouse grounds," she said.

South Carolina House Minority Leader Todd Rutherford says he's confident after talking to members of both parties that the Confederate flag will be taken down within the next two months.

"A lot of people understand this is a moment we have to respond to," said Rep. Rick Quinn, a Republican and former House majority leader who said he will vote to take it down.

Other lawmakers proposed moving it to the state-run Confederate Relic Room and Military Museum.

Making any changes to the banner requires a two-thirds supermajority in both houses under the terms of a 15-year-old deal that moved it from atop the Statehouse to a position next to a monument to Confederate soldiers out front.

The last governor who called for the flag's removal, Republican David Beasley, was hounded out of office in 1998 by the Sons of Confederate Veterans. The group's influence also doomed his front-running Senate campaign for the seat won by Republican Jim DeMint.

"Do not associate the cowardly actions of a racist to our Confederate Banner," the group's South Carolina commander, Leland Summers, said in a statement. "There is absolutely no link between The Charleston Massacre and The Confederate Memorial Banner. Don't try to create one."

As recently as November 2014, a poll of 852 people by Winthrop University found 42 percent of South Carolina residents strongly believed the flag should stay, while only 26 percent strongly believed it should be removed.

But South Carolina's population is slowly becoming more diverse, more educated, wealthier and more exposed to people from outside the state. And the pollster, Scott Huffman, predicts that his August 2015 survey will show that people who didn't have strong feelings before "will have flipped and now prefer it to come down."

Haley acknowledged there are very different views about what it symbolizes.

"For many people in our state, the flag stands for traditions that are noble," she said. "The hate-filled murderer who massacred our brothers and sisters in Charleston has a sick and twisted view of the flag. In no way does he reflect the people in our state who respect, and in many ways, revere it."

For many others, "the flag is a deeply offensive symbol of a brutally oppressive past," she said.

South Carolina can survive and thrive "while still being home to both of those viewpoints. We do not need to declare a winner and a loser," she said. "This is a moment in which we can say that the flag, while an integral part of our past, does not represent the future of our great state."

Only a few months have passed since Haley, an Indian-American, described an opponent's rally to bring down the flag as a campaign stunt. She claimed last year that businesses weren't bothered despite continuing boycott demands by black groups.

"We really fixed all that," she said, with her election as the state's first female and first minority governor, and the election of Scott as the South's first black U.S. senator since Reconstruction.

The day after the shooting, Haley's posture had changed.

"We woke up today and the heart and soul of South Carolina was broken," she said.

The governor's announcement came as civil rights groups planned days of marches and protests against the Confederate flag that Roof embraced.

"The flag got appropriated by hate groups. We can't put it in a public place where it can give any oxygen to hate-filled people," said Charleston Mayor Joseph P. Riley Jr., a Democrat.

The Confederate battle flag was placed atop the Statehouse dome in the 1960s as an official protest of the civil rights movement. After mass protests, it was moved to the grounds in 2000, as part of a compromise between a group of black lawmakers and the Republicans who have controlled South Carolina for a quarter-century.

That deal kept it flying high since the shooting, even as state and U.S. flags were lowered to honor the victims. It also means that when thousands of mourners honor the Emanuel's slain senior pastor, state Sen. Clementa Pinckney, they will likely see the Confederate flag before or after filing past his coffin in the Statehouse.

The White House said President Barack Obama respects the state of South Carolina's authority to decide the issue, but believes the flag belongs in a museum. Obama new Pinckney personally, and plans to deliver his eulogy in Charleston on Friday.
___

Adcox reported from Columbia; Steve Peoples contributed from Washington, D.C.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-06-23

[lostoday]

Three articles running at the same time about the Confederate flag on a Thai forum in South East Asia. Is someone trying to make a point?

[Publicus]

From the OP: The Confederate battle flag was placed atop the Statehouse dome in the 1960s as an official protest of the civil rights movement.

That was in 1962.

Back then Alabama Gov George Wallace personally ran the Confederate Battle Flag up over the state house because then US Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy was on his way to read the riot act to the racist governor.

The NAACP boycott of tourism in SC that began over the Battle Flag in the late 1990s and has more than 100 corporations is still on. Until just now the boycott had been about to take another big bite out of the state. So much for the South rising again.

It is of course a good decision and a right one, however, it's terrible to see the butcher's bill for it and this butcher's bill dates back 400 years besides.

[RustBucket]

The way things are going they will be flying the ISIS flag over 10 Downing Street and Buckingham Palace.

PC kid gloves is never good for a nation.

[NickJ]

Im just thankful the killer wasnt wearing a Bart Simpson tee shirt.....or the show would have to have been cancelled.

[winstonc]

she must be up for re- election... i must admit removing the flag will 100% remove peoples thought about the black population there.

[Ulysses G.]

I grew up a Yankee in the South and I have always been offended by the Confederate flag, although all southerners do not fly it in a racist manner. I am not sure how important it is, but I am all for getting rid of it.

[JakeSully]

I see Walmart is already stopping selling confederate flags. Good next step.

And to all the racist folks, maybe it's time to consider immigration to Russia.. no blacks, no obamacare, no taxes.. just blondes and vodka with a side of Putin!

[MaxYakov]

she must be up for re- election... i must admit removing the flag will 100% remove peoples thought about the black population there.

Apparently, Governor Nikki Haley, a Republican, is not up for re-election:

"On November 4, 2014, Haley was re-elected to a second term as the Governor of South Carolina, a term that will expire in January 2019." Nikki Haley - Wiki

As for your second, hopefully sarcastic sentence, South Carolina State Senator Marlon Kimpson (D) agrees with you as probably most of us:

"South Carolina state senator Marlon Kimpson applauds the movement to have the confederate flag removed from in front of the South Carolina state house, but he maintains that this is only the first step towards addressing the racial divide in the state." - Global News June 22 2015 12:21 with video

So what will the second step be?

The irony is that, if Dylann Roof intended to start a "race war", all that has resulted so far, thankfully, is a "flag war".

Edited June 23, 2015 by MaxYakov

[MaxYakov]

I grew up a Yankee in the South and I have always been offended by the Confederate flag, although all southerners do not fly it in a racist manner. I am not sure how important it is, but I am all for getting rid of it.

As a USN Submarine Service crew member, I was stationed in Charleston and lived in the suburbs for nearly two years. I was in a US military bubble and didn't hang much with the locals and I was at sea about half the time. The few times I was out and around I sensed a disdain for my dark blue, winter uniform. Even when in civvies they knew I wasn't one of them and they weren't very hospitable. I got the feeling that I was considered an "occupying military force".

The only dicey encounter I had was with a kid from The Citadel Military College while I was in uniform. He thought the better of taking me on, but I couldn't help sensing even with the minimal time I spent in Charleston that they were still fighting the Civil War.

Edited June 23, 2015 by MaxYakov

[Pinot]

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism. The fact that it is still flying over the capital of an American state is an embarrassment for the rest of the US. Theses southern states are proud of their racism. The states are run by racist crackers who believe that fighting to keep their negro slaves was a war well fought and want to return to those days. The legacy of the confederate states should be one of shame, instead they embrace their pathetic history. It's as if Germany wanted to keep their Nazi flags flying. Wouldn't that be the same thing?

[JakeSully]

The way things are going they will be flying the ISIS flag over 10 Downing Street and Buckingham Palace.

PC kid gloves is never good for a nation.

Are you saying, round up all the white racists and put them in concentration camps and gas them to death along with the ISIS scum?

Not very PC but isn't that your point?

[lostoday]

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism. The fact that it is still flying over the capital of an American state is an embarrassment for the rest of the US. Theses southern states are proud of their racism. The states are run by racist crackers who believe that fighting to keep their negro slaves was a war well fought and want to return to those days. The legacy of the confederate states should be one of shame, instead they embrace their pathetic history. It's as if Germany wanted to keep their Nazi flags flying. Wouldn't that be the same thing?

The great majority of the Southern States were small farmers with no slaves and the great majority of North was small farmers with no slaves. The North in addition had almost all of the fledgling industry in the country and the South bought all its manufactured goods from England.

The North wanted to prevent the South from buying goods from England and the South wanted to continue to trade cheap cotton for cheap industrial goods from Great Britain.

"The sympathy of the upper and wealthier classes of English society was given not to the free North, but to the more aristocratic South. They bought Southern bonds. The Times thundered for the South. A majority of English writers pointed out that it would be advantageous for England to deal with two republics here instead of one, and that our crude democracy had found its inevitable end.

The majority of the governing class in England were convinced that the South would win and wished it to. When it became evident that the triumph of the North would destroy slavery, English sympathy for the Union cause increased daily."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/civil_war-england.htm

[bangon04]

I grew up a Yankee in the South and I have always been offended by the Confederate flag, although all southerners do not fly it in a racist manner. I am not sure how important it is, but I am all for getting rid of it.

Your forum name seems to suggest that you do have an idea about how important it is.......

The Confederate Commemmorative Flag does seem to have been hijacked by the segregationists in the 50s and 60s and given a revival which was not in the best taste....

Thant is the symbolism which needs to be taken down, not the memory of the civil war itself.

[gchurch259]

Interesting name you use, Mr Grant. Seems I remember about a fellow named Grant back in the 1860's and while Commanding the US Army at that time of the "Great War to End Slavery" had slaves up until the 13th Amendment was passed. Oh, how terrible those damn Southerns were to have slaves, hell they could have been running around in the jungles if another Tribe had not captured and sold them to Europeans to bring to the "Colony's" to be sold into slavery.

Slavery is bad !!, But it has existed for all known history and exist today, What about all the Asian Slaves brought to US to build the railroads and operate the mines in the Western US.

Hell, man I am a Slave to the IRS today at 80 and living in Thailand. Any money I earn anywhere in the World they want it reported and they want 15% for Self Employment Tax (Social Security) which I have paid into since I was 15 years old.

Finally, If you do not live in S.C. I am not sure it is any of any ones business what they do there. The USA being a freedom loving country allows you to move and live where you please.

I was born and raised in the South, Florida and then Georgia. I remember segregation, it existed between Blacks and Whites and between the poor Whites and the other side of the tracks Whites.

By the way I was in the USAF in Charleston for 12 years and still have many friends and two God Daughters who live there. It is a great place to live and has a rich history as does Savannah, and it is not all about the Civil War. All the folks there are friendly and if you do not break the law it is an easy place to live.

I grew up a Yankee in the South and I have always been offended by the Confederate flag, although all southerners do not fly it in a racist manner. I am not sure how important it is, but I am all for getting rid of it.

[Jingthing]

Good that horrible flag is going down in any official use there, but that lady guv was way too respectful of that flag in her speech. Unifying politics some would say. I would say coddling to white supremacy.

This afternoon, in announcing her support for removing the Confederate flag from the capitol grounds, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley asserted that killer Dylann Roof had a “a sick and twisted view of the flag” which did not reflect “the people in our state who respect and in many ways revere it.” If the governor meant that very few of the flag’s supporters believe in mass murder, she is surely right. But on the question of whose view of the Confederate Flag is more twisted, she is almost certainly wrong.

Roof’s belief that black life had no purpose beyond subjugation is “sick and twisted” in the exact same manner as the beliefs of those who created the Confederate flag were “sick and twisted.” The Confederate flag is directly tied to the Confederate cause, and the Confederate cause was white supremacy. This claim is not the result of revisionism. It does not require reading between the lines. It is the plain meaning of the words of those who bore the Confederate flag across history. These words must never be forgotten. Over the next few months the word “heritage” will be repeatedly invoked. It would be derelict to not examine the exact contents of that heritage.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

[lostoday]

Interesting name you use, Mr Grant. Seems I remember about a fellow named Grant back in the 1860's and while Commanding the US Army at that time of the "Great War to End Slavery" had slaves up until the 13th Amendment was passed. Oh, how terrible those damn Southerns were to have slaves, hell they could have been running around in the jungles if another Tribe had not captured and sold them to Europeans to bring to the "Colony's" to be sold into slavery.

Slavery is bad !!, But it has existed for all known history and exist today, What about all the Asian Slaves brought to US to build the railroads and operate the mines in the Western US.

Hell, man I am a Slave to the IRS today at 80 and living in Thailand. Any money I earn anywhere in the World they want it reported and they want 15% for Self Employment Tax (Social Security) which I have paid into since I was 15 years old.

Finally, If you do not live in S.C. I am not sure it is any of any ones business what they do there. The USA being a freedom loving country allows you to move and live where you please.

I was born and raised in the South, Florida and then Georgia. I remember segregation, it existed between Blacks and Whites and between the poor Whites and the other side of the tracks Whites.

By the way I was in the USAF in Charleston for 12 years and still have many friends and two God Daughters who live there. It is a great place to live and has a rich history as does Savannah, and it is not all about the Civil War. All the folks there are friendly and if you do not break the law it is an easy place to live.

The only evidence that USG owned slaves is a document he signed in 1859 freeing one, William Jones.

http://home.nas.com/lopresti/ps.htm

Seeing you was in the Air Force I would have thought yo would be better educated.

[Chicog]

The only evidence that USG owned slaves is a document he signed in 1859 freeing one, William Jones.

http://home.nas.com/lopresti/ps.htm

Seeing you was in the Air Force I would have thought yo would be better educated.

I think one was probably enough....

“I Ulysses S. Grant…do hereby manumit, emancipate and set free from Slavery my Negro man William, sometimes called William Jones…forever.”

[Enoon]

The only evidence that USG owned slaves is a document he signed in 1859 freeing one, William Jones.

http://home.nas.com/lopresti/ps.htm

Seeing you was in the Air Force I would have thought yo would be better educated.

I think one was probably enough....

“I Ulysses S. Grant…do hereby manumit, emancipate and set free from Slavery my Negro man William, sometimes called William Jones…forever.”

Sounds like the General was a bad man who became a good man. That's rather encouraging isn't it?

[Publicus]

A two-thrids vote of a legislature is a hard vote to get. A two-thirds vote of anything is a very hard vote to get yet that is what is required of Republicans in SC to do anything affecting that Confederate Battle Flag flying on the state capitol grounds.

The Sons of Confederate Veterans organization say it's not going to happen, and a survey yesterday of SC legislators found half of 'em silent on the question. The 'Sons of' destroyed the career of a previous Republican governor who had proposed the same thing, to dump the Battle Flag.

Time and circumstance are of a vital importance, however, this ain't over yet because it is in the hands of Republican party people in South Carolina. Two-thirds is an awesome vote to get on this emotional issue and we are talking about Republican party lunar modules out on the far right down there.

Survey finds divide, silence on Confederate flag issue in Legislature

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150622/PC16/150629790

[lostoday]

The only evidence that USG owned slaves is a document he signed in 1859 freeing one, William Jones.

http://home.nas.com/lopresti/ps.htm

Seeing you was in the Air Force I would have thought yo would be better educated.

I think one was probably enough....

“I Ulysses S. Grant…do hereby manumit, emancipate and set free from Slavery my Negro man William, sometimes called William Jones…forever.”

I was refuting the lie told by another poster who wrote, "Seems I remember about a fellow named Grant back in the 1860's and while Commanding the US Army at that time of the "Great War to End Slavery" had slaves up until the 13th Amendment was passed"

Check the dates and read what I posted next time before going off half cocked.

You see now? Grant did not have slaves while commanding the army because the war did not start till 1861 and the 13th amendment was passed ratified in 1865. So the statement that the other poster made that you decided not to include in your reply is false.

[losworld]

I grew up a Yankee in the South and I have always been offended by the Confederate flag, although all southerners do not fly it in a racist manner. I am not sure how important it is, but I am all for getting rid of it.

So let me get this you are creating two types of Americans in the South? You grew up a Yankee. How silly is this? You have turned back the clock over 100 years. Not surprised lol.

[Ulysses G.]

My parents were from the North and they trained me on the whole racism thing. When we played Yankees and Rebels after school I was the only Yankee.

[Chicog]

I think one was probably enough....

“I Ulysses S. Grant…do hereby manumit, emancipate and set free from Slavery my Negro man William, sometimes called William Jones…forever.”

I was refuting the lie told by another poster who wrote, "Seems I remember about a fellow named Grant back in the 1860's and while Commanding the US Army at that time of the "Great War to End Slavery" had slaves up until the 13th Amendment was passed"

Check the dates and read what I posted next time before going off half cocked.

You see now? Grant did not have slaves while commanding the army because the war did not start till 1861 and the 13th amendment was passed ratified in 1865. So the statement that the other poster made that you decided not to include in your reply is false.

I made a comment on the language used at the time.

Can I suggest you get off the high version of the common form of transport at the time?

[Jingthing]

My parents were from the North and they trained me on the whole racism thing. When we played Yankees and Rebels after school I was the only Yankee.

I grew up in a border area. A bit confusing. A childhood friend boasted he was a direct descendant of General "Beast" Butler. Now to a kid being related to a "Beast" was pretty darned impressive!

But we didn't have google back then!

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/biographies/benjamin-butler.html

Benjamin Butler became one of the most disliked generals of the war, upsetting many on both sides of the conflict.

...

He issued Order 28 during this time period, which stated that any lady in New Orleans who showed contempt for Union soldiers would effectively be treated as though they were a prostitute. This law drew great controversy in both the North and South, caused Confederate president Jefferson Davis to label Butler and outlaw, and earned him the nickname “Beast Butler.”

[Merzik]

The American Civil War was fought over many different issues and slavery was one of them. Yet it is a far more complicated issue than the Potically Correct version of today seen in Hollywood movies and in leftist MSM which distorts everything. Someone who understood the issues and yet chose to lead the Confederate Army was Robert E Lee even though he was strongly opposed to slavery.

General Robert E Lee on slavery in 1856:

"There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race.."

http://www.civilwarh.../leepierce.html

President Dwight D. Eisenhower revealed on national television that one of the four great Americans whose pictures hung in his office was none other than Robert E. Lee.

Eisenhower on Lee,

" in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. . . . selfless almost to a fault . . . noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history. From deep conviction I simply say this: a nation of men of Lees caliber would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities . . . we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained."

http://www.neh.gov/h...e-american-icon

I am not from the American South but I know the flag was flown there not because they supported slavery. In large part it was due to the very harsh occupation that followed the war in which the South suffered many injustices at the hands of the North . This was a policy Lincoln would have been opposed to had he lived. The South returned to the Union but bore a stronge grudge toward WHITE Northerners and the battle flag was an important symbol of that. It is flown by the kkk as well; but so is the American flag. This latest crusade against the flag is yet another example of racial politics and political correctness run amock. In a few years the left will be attacking the American flag as a "symbol of hate."

[Jingthing]

Ah yes, the "war of northern aggression" / "the great unpleasantness" -- please spare us!

The rebels seceded from the Union. They got crushed. Deal with it.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Jingthing

[lostoday]

I think one was probably enough....

“I Ulysses S. Grant…do hereby manumit, emancipate and set free from Slavery my Negro man William, sometimes called William Jones…forever.”

I was refuting the lie told by another poster who wrote, "Seems I remember about a fellow named Grant back in the 1860's and while Commanding the US Army at that time of the "Great War to End Slavery" had slaves up until the 13th Amendment was passed"

Check the dates and read what I posted next time before going off half cocked.

You see now? Grant did not have slaves while commanding the army because the war did not start till 1861 and the 13th amendment was passed ratified in 1865. So the statement that the other poster made that you decided not to include in your reply is false.

I made a comment on the language used at the time.

Can I suggest you get off the high version of the common form of transport at the time?

You wrote, "I think one was probably enough..." Indicating your agreement with "Seems I remember about a fellow named Grant back in the 1860's and while Commanding the US Army at that time of the "Great War to End Slavery" had slaves up until the 13th Amendment was passed."

​Save me the rhetoric. You were in error, admit it and get on with your usual stuff.

[stevenl]

I think one was probably enough....

“I Ulysses S. Grant…do hereby manumit, emancipate and set free from Slavery my Negro man William, sometimes called William Jones…forever.”

I was refuting the lie told by another poster who wrote, "Seems I remember about a fellow named Grant back in the 1860's and while Commanding the US Army at that time of the "Great War to End Slavery" had slaves up until the 13th Amendment was passed"

Check the dates and read what I posted next time before going off half cocked.

You see now? Grant did not have slaves while commanding the army because the war did not start till 1861 and the 13th amendment was passed ratified in 1865. So the statement that the other poster made that you decided not to include in your reply is false.

I made a comment on the language used at the time.

Can I suggest you get off the high version of the common form of transport at the time?

You wrote, "I think one was probably enough..." Indicating your agreement with "Seems I remember about a fellow named Grant back in the 1860's and while Commanding the US Army at that time of the "Great War to End Slavery" had slaves up until the 13th Amendment was passed."

​Save me the rhetoric. You were in error, admit it and get on with your usual stuff.

That was somebody else.

[masquerade]

Is this another Manchurian candidate? Obama is desperate to disarm all citizens in America, he even congratulated the John Howard Government in Australia for doing just that as a direct result of the the Port Arthur massacre. Very similar circumstances in both cases with a white alleged crazed young man. Many on this forum are having their two bobs worth as they actually believe the trash dished up to them by the media. As in the Australian tragedy, I will let time be the judge when more people can report facts, figures and other detail.

Once Americans are disarmed and turning on one another, the military trained police force will step in and the rest will be history if you are still alive to witness it. I prefer to err on the side of caution rather than believe any politician, media outlet or PR association. Do you not think that if the real truth is continually contorted and if you are purposely starved from receiving the real fact you will tend to believe anything that is thrown up, human nature dictates so.

Let me see how long it takes to prove my point with the first posting condemning my synopsis without offering any credible fact supporting their argument.