Advice needed for friend caught working illegally

[bigt3116]

Why not ask the owner to "deal" with it?

Surely the owner knows who is who and who needs what

Too late now. It's in the court system. A good lawyer might help, but as she's already out on bail she just needs to wait it out, have her day in court, pay the fine and get deported.

Many cases get lost or evidence "found" just requires correct donations to correct people.

Do you have evidence of this with regards to foreigners, or are you just spouting the same old "everything and everyone in Thailand can be bought" ?

[brewsterbudgen]

Why not ask the owner to "deal" with it?

Surely the owner knows who is who and who needs what

Too late now. It's in the court system. A good lawyer might help, but as she's already out on bail she just needs to wait it out, have her day in court, pay the fine and get deported.

Many cases get lost or evidence "found" just requires correct donations to correct people.

Maybe. But what's the point? The bail money has already been paid and the fine is likely to be minimal. She's not locked up and just needs to wait until the case is heard.

[konying]

Why not ask the owner to "deal" with it?

Surely the owner knows who is who and who needs what

Too late now. It's in the court system. A good lawyer might help, but as she's already out on bail she just needs to wait it out, have her day in court, pay the fine and get deported.

Many cases get lost or evidence "found" just requires correct donations to correct people.

Do you have evidence of this with regards to foreigners, or are you just spouting the same old "everything and everyone in Thailand can be bought" ?

Plenty, but no doubt you know better

[brewsterbudgen]

Why not ask the owner to "deal" with it?

Surely the owner knows who is who and who needs what

Too late now. It's in the court system. A good lawyer might help, but as she's already out on bail she just needs to wait it out, have her day in court, pay the fine and get deported.

Many cases get lost or evidence "found" just requires correct donations to correct people.

Do you have evidence of this with regards to foreigners, or are you just spouting the same old "everything and everyone in Thailand can be bought" ?

Indeed. While there's no doubt that money can be used to avoid charges being formally pressed, once the court machinery is in motion and the case set down it's unlikely to be stopped other than through legal moves.

[konying]

Why not ask the owner to "deal" with it?

Surely the owner knows who is who and who needs what

Too late now. It's in the court system. A good lawyer might help, but as she's already out on bail she just needs to wait it out, have her day in court, pay the fine and get deported.

Many cases get lost or evidence "found" just requires correct donations to correct people.

Maybe. But what's the point? The bail money has already been paid and the fine is likely to be minimal. She's not locked up and just needs to wait until the case is heard.

To avoid being deported, because i thought that was the main concern.

[konying]

Indeed. While there's no doubt that money can be used to avoid charges being formally pressed, once the court machinery is in motion and the case set down it's unlikely to be stopped other than through legal moves.

Had a drink driving customer set for court date, but with appropriate donation, passport was returned and paperwork lost.

These are not a high priority cases, its just the matter of donation and if its worth the donation.

Usually people arrested for working illegally do not even make it that far, because donations made prior to that point.

A 25K "fine" solves the matter

[elliss]

What about overstay too???? 500 baht a day????

IMHO, overstay should be 1000 baht a day .

discourage the chancers , and free lancers .

Bring on the much needed changes , asap , kap

The new regime is the way forward, nothing to hide , nothing to fear .

Edited June 27, 2015 by elliss

[brewsterbudgen]

Indeed. While there's no doubt that money can be used to avoid charges being formally pressed, once the court machinery is in motion and the case set down it's unlikely to be stopped other than through legal moves.

Had a drink driving customer set for court date, but with appropriate donation, passport was returned and paperwork lost.

These are not a high priority cases, its just the matter of donation and if its worth the donation.

Usually people arrested for working illegally do not even make it that far, because donations made prior to that point.

A 25K "fine" solves the matter

Hmmm. You "had a customer..."

In any case I think the OP was just asking for advice and it's not even clear if it was him who paid her bail. Paying another fee just to avoid deportation seems excessive, especially as I doubt the bail money would be returned.

Deportation is not the end of the world. and for offences like this, she's unlikely to be blacklisted and will be able to return to Thailand if she really wants to.

[konying]

Indeed. While there's no doubt that money can be used to avoid charges being formally pressed, once the court machinery is in motion and the case set down it's unlikely to be stopped other than through legal moves.

Had a drink driving customer set for court date, but with appropriate donation, passport was returned and paperwork lost.

These are not a high priority cases, its just the matter of donation and if its worth the donation.

Usually people arrested for working illegally do not even make it that far, because donations made prior to that point.

A 25K "fine" solves the matter

Hmmm. You "had a customer..."

In any case I think the OP was just asking for advice and it's not even clear if it was him who paid her bail. Paying another fee just to avoid deportation seems excessive, especially as I doubt the bail money would be returned.

Deportation is not the end of the world. and for offences like this, she's unlikely to be blacklisted and will be able to return to Thailand if she really wants to.

Yes i had a customer, what problem do you have with that?

Bail is returned 30 days after the court hearing.

I doubt OP personally paid the bail, I am certain only a Thai can pay bail, as in be present and sign the papers

[brewsterbudgen]

Indeed. While there's no doubt that money can be used to avoid charges being formally pressed, once the court machinery is in motion and the case set down it's unlikely to be stopped other than through legal moves.

Had a drink driving customer set for court date, but with appropriate donation, passport was returned and paperwork lost.

These are not a high priority cases, its just the matter of donation and if its worth the donation.

Usually people arrested for working illegally do not even make it that far, because donations made prior to that point.

A 25K "fine" solves the matter

Hmmm. You "had a customer..."

In any case I think the OP was just asking for advice and it's not even clear if it was him who paid her bail. Paying another fee just to avoid deportation seems excessive, especially as I doubt the bail money would be returned.

Deportation is not the end of the world. and for offences like this, she's unlikely to be blacklisted and will be able to return to Thailand if she really wants to.

Yes i had a customer, what problem do you have with that?

Bail is returned 30 days after the court hearing.

I doubt OP personally paid the bail, I am certain only a Thai can pay bail, as in be present and sign the papers

No problem; just saying it's an easy claim to make!

I know when bail is normally returned however if, as you claim, a bribe can be paid to end the proceedings, I doubt the bail, which has been registered with the court, would be returned. Hardly seems worth it,

Only Thais can pay bail? Where did you hear this? Even if it's right, it's not difficult for a foreigner to arrange it through a bail lawyer or even a Thai friend, although I agree I don't think the OP did in this case.

[konying]

No problem; just saying it's an easy claim to make!

I know when bail is normally returned however if, as you claim, a bribe can be paid to end the proceedings, I doubt the bail, which has been registered with the court, would be returned. Hardly seems worth it,

Only Thais can pay bail? Where did you hear this? Even if it's right, it's not difficult for a foreigner to arrange it through a bail lawyer or even a Thai friend, although I agree I don't think the OP did in this case.

What is an easy claim to make? have you been arrested before? bailed someone out?

Bail is NOT normally returned, but ALWAYS returned, especially if as you claim it is paid to court.

Where do i get my information? From experience.

You do not know if bail has been registered with court, it is NORMALLY paid in police station NOT in court, unless matter has been already heard in court and court granted bail

[brewsterbudgen]

No problem; just saying it's an easy claim to make!

I know when bail is normally returned however if, as you claim, a bribe can be paid to end the proceedings, I doubt the bail, which has been registered with the court, would be returned. Hardly seems worth it,

Only Thais can pay bail? Where did you hear this? Even if it's right, it's not difficult for a foreigner to arrange it through a bail lawyer or even a Thai friend, although I agree I don't think the OP did in this case.

What is an easy claim to make? have you been arrested before? bailed someone out?

Bail is NOT normally returned, but ALWAYS returned, especially if as you claim it is paid to court.

Where do i get my information? From experience.

You do not know if bail has been registered with court, it is NORMALLY paid in police station NOT in court, unless matter has been already heard in court and court granted bail

My reference to your "claim" was regarding your customer who you say successfully bribed the court (nothing to do with bail). I'm not disputing the claim, but you can't deny that on Forums like this anyone can claim anything they like!

Yes, as I mentioned in my first posts on this thread, I have had friends arrested for illegal working and I have paid bail for them. (Actually I don't think we're disagreeing about the Thai bail system, other than I wasn't aware foreigners couldn't pay bail).

[konying]

No problem; just saying it's an easy claim to make!

I know when bail is normally returned however if, as you claim, a bribe can be paid to end the proceedings, I doubt the bail, which has been registered with the court, would be returned. Hardly seems worth it,

Only Thais can pay bail? Where did you hear this? Even if it's right, it's not difficult for a foreigner to arrange it through a bail lawyer or even a Thai friend, although I agree I don't think the OP did in this case.

What is an easy claim to make? have you been arrested before? bailed someone out?

Bail is NOT normally returned, but ALWAYS returned, especially if as you claim it is paid to court.

Where do i get my information? From experience.

You do not know if bail has been registered with court, it is NORMALLY paid in police station NOT in court, unless matter has been already heard in court and court granted bail

My reference to your "claim" was regarding your customer who you say successfully bribed the court (nothing to do with bail). I'm not disputing the claim, but you can't deny that on Forums like this anyone can claim anything they like!

Yes, as I mentioned in my first posts on this thread, I have had friends arrested for illegal working and I have paid bail for them. (Actually I don't think we're disagreeing about the Thai bail system, other than I wasn't aware foreigners couldn't pay bail).

I never said bribed the court.

I said "donations' were made and it never made it to court.

Foreigner can pay as in provide the money, but Thai must sign all the documents and bail is refunded to the same Thai person, can not be anyone else.

Edited June 27, 2015 by konying

[brewsterbudgen]

No problem; just saying it's an easy claim to make!

I know when bail is normally returned however if, as you claim, a bribe can be paid to end the proceedings, I doubt the bail, which has been registered with the court, would be returned. Hardly seems worth it,

Only Thais can pay bail? Where did you hear this? Even if it's right, it's not difficult for a foreigner to arrange it through a bail lawyer or even a Thai friend, although I agree I don't think the OP did in this case.

What is an easy claim to make? have you been arrested before? bailed someone out?

Bail is NOT normally returned, but ALWAYS returned, especially if as you claim it is paid to court.

Where do i get my information? From experience.

You do not know if bail has been registered with court, it is NORMALLY paid in police station NOT in court, unless matter has been already heard in court and court granted bail

My reference to your "claim" was regarding your customer who you say successfully bribed the court (nothing to do with bail). I'm not disputing the claim, but you can't deny that on Forums like this anyone can claim anything they like!

Yes, as I mentioned in my first posts on this thread, I have had friends arrested for illegal working and I have paid bail for them. (Actually I don't think we're disagreeing about the Thai bail system, other than I wasn't aware foreigners couldn't pay bail).

I never said bribed the court.

I said "donations' were made and it never made it to court

Semantics!

[konying]

Semantics!

HUGE difference

[Soutpeel]

What about overstay too???? 500 baht a day????

IMHO, overstay should be 1000 baht a day .

discourage the chancers , and free lancers .

Bring on the much needed changes , asap , kap

The new regime is the way forward, nothing to hide , nothing to fear .

Fact is the fine is too small even at THB 1000/day and it encourages people to over stay, fine at THB 1000 for so many days, say 7, after that fine and jail for an equal number of days the person overstayed...

[ubonjoe]

What about overstay too???? 500 baht a day????

IMHO, overstay should be 1000 baht a day .

discourage the chancers , and free lancers .

Bring on the much needed changes , asap , kap

The new regime is the way forward, nothing to hide , nothing to fear .

Fact is the fine is too small even at THB 1000/day and it encourages people to over stay, fine at THB 1000 for so many days, say 7, after that fine and jail for an equal number of days the person overstayed...

The daily fine is not the problem it is the max fine of 20,000 baht set by the immigration act of 1979. At 500 baht a day it only take 40 days to reach the max fine.

IMO the max fine should be raised to perhaps 100k baht. Then have the daily fine set by the number of days on overstay. Maybe 500 baht for 30 days or less and then 1000 baht or more after that which would apply to the first 30 days also if you went over that amount.

[brewsterbudgen]

What about overstay too???? 500 baht a day????

IMHO, overstay should be 1000 baht a day .

discourage the chancers , and free lancers .

Bring on the much needed changes , asap , kap

The new regime is the way forward, nothing to hide , nothing to fear .

Fact is the fine is too small even at THB 1000/day and it encourages people to over stay, fine at THB 1000 for so many days, say 7, after that fine and jail for an equal number of days the person overstayed...

The daily fine is not the problem it is the max fine of 20,000 baht set by the immigration act of 1979. At 500 baht a day it only take 40 days to reach the max fine.

IMO the max fine should be raised to perhaps 100k baht. Then have the daily fine set by the number of days on overstay. Maybe 500 baht for 30 days or less and then 1000 baht or more after that which would apply to the first 30 days also if you went over that amount.

In respect to the OP's friend, presumably no overstay fine is applicable if she didn't have an overstay before her passport was confiscated? I know my (Lao) friends were not charged for overstaying after spending time on remand and on bail, waiting for their court cases. They were just fined for the illegal working and deported.

Edited June 28, 2015 by brewsterbudgen

[Soutpeel]

What about overstay too???? 500 baht a day????

IMHO, overstay should be 1000 baht a day .

discourage the chancers , and free lancers .

Bring on the much needed changes , asap , kap

The new regime is the way forward, nothing to hide , nothing to fear .

Fact is the fine is too small even at THB 1000/day and it encourages people to over stay, fine at THB 1000 for so many days, say 7, after that fine and jail for an equal number of days the person overstayed...

The daily fine is not the problem it is the max fine of 20,000 baht set by the immigration act of 1979. At 500 baht a day it only take 40 days to reach the max fine.

IMO the max fine should be raised to perhaps 100k baht. Then have the daily fine set by the number of days on overstay. Maybe 500 baht for 30 days or less and then 1000 baht or more after that which would apply to the first 30 days also if you went over that amount.

Fair enough, but I still think locking people up in a Thai jail for a spell will have more of an effect on reducing the number of over-stayers than just a fine, and during their jail time, they can put on community service type projects like cleaning the beaches, roads, Klongs etc to pay off their "overstays"

[elliss]

The fine might be as high as 70 k and the owner will also be fined she will most likely be deported anyway , this new government have a hard stance on these issues

Farlang / foreigener chancers , are attracted to LOS. They are unlikely to have the financial resources, for a overstay fine.

Jail would be a more humanitarian , solution .

Lesson learned , the hard way.

[paz]

Farlang / foreigener chancers , are attracted to LOS. They are unlikely to have the financial resources, for a overstay fine.

Jail would be a more humanitarian , solution .

Lesson learned , the hard way.

Be aware, you quick judge of nothing that parrot Asian gestures with funny faces, that enjoying other's misfortune may attract you Karmic retribution.

[tropo]

As a suggestion, she might want to go and talk to other Filipinos working at Sunrise Tacos ... The manager is quite approachable and he has many Filipinos on his books working so they will know exactly what to do or they may give your friend some good contacts to discuss her problem with.

Just a thought ..

Yeah, I'd go along with this suggestion before it gets to court. However, bottom line, you get caught while working illegally, expect to be deported. However, there could also be ways of returning without being (previously) blacklisted. Or even that this manager has connections that with money changing hands, she gets a retrospective work permit.

Remember, money talks here. (And I'm not condoning breaking any laws.)

I don't think you understand the position of a Filipino in Thailand. Even if she is not deported she won't be able to stay for long without a visa anyway - 2 weeks tops if she did a border run. The next option would be a tourist visa issued from a Thai consulate in Laos... but whatever option, a legal stay for her in Thailand is impossible unless she gets a work permit. She's here to work illegally and got caught. Her best option is to go back to the Philippines and try to score a legal job in another foreign country with proper documents. I would be very surprised she could do much at all due to lack of funds and would need a sponsor, so OP, your friendship will be tested as she will require a lot of cash to get her out of this situation.

Edited June 29, 2015 by tropo

[brewsterbudgen]

As a suggestion, she might want to go and talk to other Filipinos working at Sunrise Tacos ... The manager is quite approachable and he has many Filipinos on his books working so they will know exactly what to do or they may give your friend some good contacts to discuss her problem with.

Just a thought ..

Yeah, I'd go along with this suggestion before it gets to court. However, bottom line, you get caught while working illegally, expect to be deported. However, there could also be ways of returning without being (previously) blacklisted. Or even that this manager has connections that with money changing hands, she gets a retrospective work permit.

Remember, money talks here. (And I'm not condoning breaking any laws.)

I don't think you understand the position of a Filipino in Thailand. Even if she is not deported she won't be able to stay for long without a visa anyway - 2 weeks tops if she did a border run. The next option would be a tourist visa issued from a Thai consulate in Laos... but whatever option, a legal stay for her in Thailand is impossible unless she gets a work permit. She's here to work illegally and got caught. Her best option is to go back to the Philippines and try to score a legal job in another foreign country with proper documents. I would be very surprised she could do much at all due to lack of funds and would need a sponsor, so OP, your friendship will be tested as she will require a lot of cash to get her out of this situation.

Someone must be assisting her financially already, if they paid her bail. Not sure it was the OP though.