PM Prayut rejects minimum wage increase

[Bernard Flint]

Poor People of Thailand : Dont expect any help from your PM as he Work for the rich families in BKK and they have absolutely no desire of sharing their power and control over Thailand - They just want .. Status Quo ...

Please dont allow more schooling for the kids, they might grow up to oust you.

[Muirton]

Cleary the PM does not understand the reason for a minimum wage. It has very little to do with the skill level of the individual.

Actually, he doesn't understand the 21st century. Thinks it's July 13, 1789.

[Thai at Heart]

Come on, people, can't you see the cycle our PM is trying to prevent? Have you not noticed the inflation in the supermarket...or even the open-air markets...since that 300 baht hike in the minimum wage???? Minimum wage shoots up, some factory owners buy machinery and opt for lay-offs, others just find excuses to fire a good part of their workforce and make their existing employees work harder in fewer numbers, still others sell out or close their doors for good. Sure, minimum wage is up, but it's hurting the very people it is supposed to help. The affluent can handle a certain amount of inflation, but minimum wage employees simply cannot. Minimum Wage Hike = Skyrocketing Inflation and Unemployment....HOW ARE THEY HELPED? Don't get me wrong...the minimum wage needs to be raised in Thailand, but very gradually. The economy has barely begun to recover from our former PM's 300 baht, so we should stay where we are for now. This sudden leap to 300 baht has put more SME businesspeople and minimum wage workers in debt just to keep up with expenses....just sayin'.

None of this is relevant to the reason to have a minimum wage and enforce it. This is MINIMUM wage not a target wage

[h90]

common sense...Well done Mr. Prayut

Can you live on 300/baht a day?

I could live better with 300 Baht per day than with 0 Baht because the company laid me off because they moved to Cambodia.

It isn't that Thailand is the only country on this planet, if the costs get too high big companies move to cheaper countries, small and medium business die.

Having very low or no minimum salary but full employment is the best, the salaries rise automatic....In China on average 10% per year.

If you want the salaries to rise: kick out the labor from Myanmar and Cambodia....automatic salaries for Thai people will raise.

Problem is that many of the 300 Baht labor aren't worth the 300 Baht. Lazy, unreliable and/or often drunk. (Valid for South and Bangkok, I understand that Esaan is poorer, but with higher salaries there they will get less chance to catch up)

[h90]

I have an exercise for you Mr. P. Go live on 300 baht a day for one month then come back and make a decision.

You will not be allowed to have a phone. You must try to save money for a phone and at the end of 1 month see how much you have managed to save. Extrapolate this one month of savings to determine how long it will take you to save enough for the phone you want. You must live in a rented room with no air conditioning or refrigerator. After all, how could you save if you had AC and a refrigerator. Alternatively, you could save for a refrigerator, but we all know the first technology a Thai needs is a phone.

You will be allowed one rife so you can hunt rats or anything other wild live creatures to help feed yourself. Relatives can supply your Kao Neow. Be careful not to pick vegetables from growing crops people own. Wild vegetables/plants/flowers will be just fine.

Happy trails Mr. P.

For a company it isn't interesting how good you can live with 300 Baht, interesting is how much your productivity is worth.

If you are lazy and sometimes drunk it might be still worth 300 Baht, but for 360 Baht it might not be worth to hold this person. Companies are not charities and if they act like charities they will loose against the next capitalist company.

It is neither fair nor friendly but that is what the system is. Communism would be fair to everyone, but I don't know any example where it worked in any larger unit than a small village.

[tbthailand]

He said that the minimum wage should be determined by the skills of each individual worker ...

as someone just noted, this kind of statement proves his ignorance with regard to the purpose of the minimum wage.

But that is not a surprise coming from a millionaire former general who obviously "earned" his wages base on his individual "skills".

Whadda jerk.

TBThailand, regardless of the basis of the decision, do you think it was the right decision? In other words, do you agree with the PM that he made the right decision?

I do not agree with his logic, or more correctly - lack of logic, nor do I agree with the decision.

The next question could easily be, "well, TB, what would you do?" and for that, I would (1) keep a single minimum wage level across the entire country, (2) peg the minimum wage to inflation, and (3) keep the mechanism which allows the minimum wage to be adapted in the future independent of inflation.

[tbthailand]

I have an exercise for you Mr. P. Go live on 300 baht a day for one month then come back and make a decision.

You will not be allowed to have a phone. You must try to save money for a phone and at the end of 1 month see how much you have managed to save. Extrapolate this one month of savings to determine how long it will take you to save enough for the phone you want. You must live in a rented room with no air conditioning or refrigerator. After all, how could you save if you had AC and a refrigerator. Alternatively, you could save for a refrigerator, but we all know the first technology a Thai needs is a phone.

You will be allowed one rife so you can hunt rats or anything other wild live creatures to help feed yourself. Relatives can supply your Kao Neow. Be careful not to pick vegetables from growing crops people own. Wild vegetables/plants/flowers will be just fine.

Happy trails Mr. P.

For a company it isn't interesting how good you can live with 300 Baht, interesting is how much your productivity is worth.

If you are lazy and sometimes drunk it might be still worth 300 Baht, but for 360 Baht it might not be worth to hold this person. Companies are not charities and if they act like charities they will loose against the next capitalist company.

It is neither fair nor friendly but that is what the system is. Communism would be fair to everyone, but I don't know any example where it worked in any larger unit than a small village.

companies pay for a job to be done - it looks like we agree on that

companies decide if a job position is worth the minimum wage - if not they don't create it or keep it. It looks like we agree on that.

Now, ...

For a company it isn't interesting how good you can live with 300 Baht, interesting is how much your productivity is worth.

which is why societies usually do not let companies dictate the level of the minimum wage.

Companies get to make choices about their business.

Societies get to decide how willing they are to let companies exploit the poorest in society.

That is what the minimum wage is about.

[tbthailand]

Come on, people, can't you see the cycle our PM is trying to prevent? Have you not noticed the inflation in the supermarket...or even the open-air markets...since that 300 baht hike in the minimum wage???? Minimum wage shoots up, some factory owners buy machinery and opt for lay-offs, others just find excuses to fire a good part of their workforce and make their existing employees work harder in fewer numbers, still others sell out or close their doors for good. Sure, minimum wage is up, but it's hurting the very people it is supposed to help. The affluent can handle a certain amount of inflation, but minimum wage employees simply cannot. Minimum Wage Hike = Skyrocketing Inflation and Unemployment....HOW ARE THEY HELPED? Don't get me wrong...the minimum wage needs to be raised in Thailand, but very gradually. The economy has barely begun to recover from our former PM's 300 baht, so we should stay where we are for now. This sudden leap to 300 baht has put more SME businesspeople and minimum wage workers in debt just to keep up with expenses....just sayin'.

None of this is relevant to the reason to have a minimum wage and enforce it. This is MINIMUM wage not a target wage

not to mention that other factors such as crude oil prices impact inflation much more than wages in general and far more than the minimum wage.

chart: https://www.quandl.com/data/CHRIS/CME_CL1-Crude-Oil-Futures-Continuous-Contract-1-CL1-Front-Month?utm_medium=graph&utm_source=quandl

[Muirton]

common sense...Well done Mr. Prayut

Can you live on 300/baht a day?

I could live better with 300 Baht per day than with 0 Baht because the company laid me off because they moved to Cambodia.

It isn't that Thailand is the only country on this planet, if the costs get too high big companies move to cheaper countries, small and medium business die.

Having very low or no minimum salary but full employment is the best, the salaries rise automatic....In China on average 10% per year.

If you want the salaries to rise: kick out the labor from Myanmar and Cambodia....automatic salaries for Thai people will raise.

Problem is that many of the 300 Baht labor aren't worth the 300 Baht. Lazy, unreliable and/or often drunk. (Valid for South and Bangkok, I understand that Esaan is poorer, but with higher salaries there they will get less chance to catch up)

How many Thai laborers do you know to support your statement that they're "Lazy, unreliable and/or often drunk." Can it with your racism, ok?

[Old Man River]

He said that the minimum wage should be determined by the skills of each individual worker ...

as someone just noted, this kind of statement proves his ignorance with regard to the purpose of the minimum wage.

But that is not a surprise coming from a millionaire former general who obviously "earned" his wages base on his individual "skills".

Whadda jerk.

TBThailand, regardless of the basis of the decision, do you think it was the right decision? In other words, do you agree with the PM that he made the right decision?

I do not agree with his logic, or more correctly - lack of logic, nor do I agree with the decision.

The next question could easily be, "well, TB, what would you do?" and for that, I would (1) keep a single minimum wage level across the entire country, (2) peg the minimum wage to inflation, and (3) keep the mechanism which allows the minimum wage to be adapted in the future independent of inflation.

TB, core or headline?

Note, headline is in the negative which would mean a reduction in the minimum wage based on above. Core would currently allow a very small increase.

I do wonder on what basis YL used to come up with the THB 300, other than it sounded good.

[rubl]

Come on, people, can't you see the cycle our PM is trying to prevent? Have you not noticed the inflation in the supermarket...or even the open-air markets...since that 300 baht hike in the minimum wage???? Minimum wage shoots up, some factory owners buy machinery and opt for lay-offs, others just find excuses to fire a good part of their workforce and make their existing employees work harder in fewer numbers, still others sell out or close their doors for good. Sure, minimum wage is up, but it's hurting the very people it is supposed to help. The affluent can handle a certain amount of inflation, but minimum wage employees simply cannot. Minimum Wage Hike = Skyrocketing Inflation and Unemployment....HOW ARE THEY HELPED? Don't get me wrong...the minimum wage needs to be raised in Thailand, but very gradually. The economy has barely begun to recover from our former PM's 300 baht, so we should stay where we are for now. This sudden leap to 300 baht has put more SME businesspeople and minimum wage workers in debt just to keep up with expenses....just sayin'.

None of this is relevant to the reason to have a minimum wage and enforce it. This is MINIMUM wage not a target wage

not to mention that other factors such as crude oil prices impact inflation much more than wages in general and far more than the minimum wage.

chart: https://www.quandl.com/data/CHRIS/CME_CL1-Crude-Oil-Futures-Continuous-Contract-1-CL1-Front-Month?utm_medium=graph&utm_source=quandl

In general maybe, but when suddenly minimum wages are doubled that's bound to effect inflation as you wouldn't expect the employers to fully absorb that 100% without a clear productivity increase of the employees. Unfortunately the previous government just set this 300 Baht /day election promise without solid data justifying it. Neither did they 'induce' companies to promote productivity increasing measures. Even before that 300 Baht / day was effective by law country wide the government already raised that banner "mission accomplished". Did the government check the new law was properly enforced?

The previous government even stated that inflation and price rises were just imagination.

By now that 300 Baht / day may still not be enforced, will most likely not be enough by a margin of 20%. Will companies need to 'absorb' that 20% again? Will companies know how to introduce productivity increasing measures?

Edited June 26, 2015 by rubl

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post and replies to has been removed.

[Thai at Heart]

Come on, people, can't you see the cycle our PM is trying to prevent? Have you not noticed the inflation in the supermarket...or even the open-air markets...since that 300 baht hike in the minimum wage???? Minimum wage shoots up, some factory owners buy machinery and opt for lay-offs, others just find excuses to fire a good part of their workforce and make their existing employees work harder in fewer numbers, still others sell out or close their doors for good. Sure, minimum wage is up, but it's hurting the very people it is supposed to help. The affluent can handle a certain amount of inflation, but minimum wage employees simply cannot. Minimum Wage Hike = Skyrocketing Inflation and Unemployment....HOW ARE THEY HELPED? Don't get me wrong...the minimum wage needs to be raised in Thailand, but very gradually. The economy has barely begun to recover from our former PM's 300 baht, so we should stay where we are for now. This sudden leap to 300 baht has put more SME businesspeople and minimum wage workers in debt just to keep up with expenses....just sayin'.

None of this is relevant to the reason to have a minimum wage and enforce it. This is MINIMUM wage not a target wage

not to mention that other factors such as crude oil prices impact inflation much more than wages in general and far more than the minimum wage.

chart: https://www.quandl.com/data/CHRIS/CME_CL1-Crude-Oil-Futures-Continuous-Contract-1-CL1-Front-Month?utm_medium=graph&utm_source=quandl

In general maybe, but when suddenly minimum wages are doubled that's bound to effect inflation as you wouldn't expect the employers to fully absorb that 100% without a clear productivity increase of the employees. Unfortunately the previous government just set this 300 Baht /day election promise without solid data justifying it. Neither did they 'induce' companies to promote productivity increasing measures. Even before that 300 Baht / day was effective by law country wide the government already raised that banner "mission accomplished". Did the government check the new law was properly enforced?

The previous government even stated that inflation and price rises were just imagination.

By now that 300 Baht / day may still not be enforced, will most likely not be enough by a margin of 20%. Will companies need to 'absorb' that 20% again? Will companies know how to introduce productivity increasing measures?

Didn't they give all companies a tax break also?

[billd766]

common sense...Well done Mr. Prayut

Can you live on 300/baht a day?

I could live better with 300 Baht per day than with 0 Baht because the company laid me off because they moved to Cambodia.

It isn't that Thailand is the only country on this planet, if the costs get too high big companies move to cheaper countries, small and medium business die.

Having very low or no minimum salary but full employment is the best, the salaries rise automatic....In China on average 10% per year.

If you want the salaries to rise: kick out the labor from Myanmar and Cambodia....automatic salaries for Thai people will raise.

Problem is that many of the 300 Baht labor aren't worth the 300 Baht. Lazy, unreliable and/or often drunk. (Valid for South and Bangkok, I understand that Esaan is poorer, but with higher salaries there they will get less chance to catch up)

How many Thai laborers do you know to support your statement that they're "Lazy, unreliable and/or often drunk." Can it with your racism, ok?

How many Thai labourers do YOU personally know?

It isn't racism at all as my Thai wife and Thai friends also tell me the same thing.

I know quite a few living in rural Khampaeng Phet and my 18 year old nephew was one of them. He got fired by the Forestry department for turning up late 3 or 4 times a month and sometimes he never bothered to go to work at all. We saved his job twice for him and he STILL got fired

The guy who "worked" next door did so when he felt like it as he was supported by his family until they pulled the plug on him and told him to get to BKK and get a job with the family and his "free money" tap was turned off.

My neighbours youngest daughter's "husband" is another lazy Thai who also has a job with the Forestry Department and regularly comes home drunk and incapable as he did last night and was late for work again this morning.

OTOH there ARE many hard working Thais to balance the equation out.

[Bernard Flint]

We are very lucky that westerners cannot vote, He would get the vote if he didnt increase price of booze and ciggies

[rubl]

None of this is relevant to the reason to have a minimum wage and enforce it. This is MINIMUM wage not a target wage

not to mention that other factors such as crude oil prices impact inflation much more than wages in general and far more than the minimum wage.

chart: https://www.quandl.com/data/CHRIS/CME_CL1-Crude-Oil-Futures-Continuous-Contract-1-CL1-Front-Month?utm_medium=graph&utm_source=quandl

In general maybe, but when suddenly minimum wages are doubled that's bound to effect inflation as you wouldn't expect the employers to fully absorb that 100% without a clear productivity increase of the employees. Unfortunately the previous government just set this 300 Baht /day election promise without solid data justifying it. Neither did they 'induce' companies to promote productivity increasing measures. Even before that 300 Baht / day was effective by law country wide the government already raised that banner "mission accomplished". Did the government check the new law was properly enforced?

The previous government even stated that inflation and price rises were just imagination.

By now that 300 Baht / day may still not be enforced, will most likely not be enough by a margin of 20%. Will companies need to 'absorb' that 20% again? Will companies know how to introduce productivity increasing measures?

Didn't they give all companies a tax break also?

Yes, the previous government reduced Corporate tax from 30% via 23% to 20%. This had nothing to do with the planned increase of the Minimum Wage. The decrease was was one of the 'urgent to be implemented points Ms. Yingluck read out on the 9th of August 2011 when presenting her governments policies.

"1.9 Reduce Corporate Income Tax to 23% in 2012 and to 20% in 2013 so as to generate competitiveness of the private sector, to broaden the tax base and to support entry to the ASEAN Community in 2015."

Related to minimum wages we had

"1.8.2 Enable a worker to earn not less than 300 Baht per day and a bachelor’s degree holder to have an income of not less than 15,000 Baht per month which will be in line with his/her productivity and efficiency; implement counter-measures to reduce the burden of entrepreneurs whom have been affected by the abovementioned measures so that workers and personnel can make a living with dignity and obtain a decent quality of life."

[rubl]

We are very lucky that westerners cannot vote, He would get the vote if he didnt increase price of booze and ciggies

Did you look in the mirror or don't you consider yourself a Westerner?

[Thai at Heart]

None of this is relevant to the reason to have a minimum wage and enforce it. This is MINIMUM wage not a target wage

not to mention that other factors such as crude oil prices impact inflation much more than wages in general and far more than the minimum wage.

chart: https://www.quandl.com/data/CHRIS/CME_CL1-Crude-Oil-Futures-Continuous-Contract-1-CL1-Front-Month?utm_medium=graph&utm_source=quandl

In general maybe, but when suddenly minimum wages are doubled that's bound to effect inflation as you wouldn't expect the employers to fully absorb that 100% without a clear productivity increase of the employees. Unfortunately the previous government just set this 300 Baht /day election promise without solid data justifying it. Neither did they 'induce' companies to promote productivity increasing measures. Even before that 300 Baht / day was effective by law country wide the government already raised that banner "mission accomplished". Did the government check the new law was properly enforced?

The previous government even stated that inflation and price rises were just imagination.

By now that 300 Baht / day may still not be enforced, will most likely not be enough by a margin of 20%. Will companies need to 'absorb' that 20% again? Will companies know how to introduce productivity increasing measures?

Didn't they give all companies a tax break also?

Yes, the previous government reduced Corporate tax from 30% via 23% to 20%. This had nothing to do with the planned increase of the Minimum Wage. The decrease was was one of the 'urgent to be implemented points Ms. Yingluck read out on the 9th of August 2011 when presenting her governments policies.

"1.9 Reduce Corporate Income Tax to 23% in 2012 and to 20% in 2013 so as to generate competitiveness of the private sector, to broaden the tax base and to support entry to the ASEAN Community in 2015."

Related to minimum wages we had

"1.8.2 Enable a worker to earn not less than 300 Baht per day and a bachelor’s degree holder to have an income of not less than 15,000 Baht per month which will be in line with his/her productivity and efficiency; implement counter-measures to reduce the burden of entrepreneurs whom have been affected by the abovementioned measures so that workers and personnel can make a living with dignity and obtain a decent quality of life."

Well that's as maybe, but a defacto corporate tax cut, should have helped companies to maintain profitability despite the wage increase.

[rubl]

Yes, the previous government reduced Corporate tax from 30% via 23% to 20%. This had nothing to do with the planned increase of the Minimum Wage. The decrease was was one of the 'urgent to be implemented points Ms. Yingluck read out on the 9th of August 2011 when presenting her governments policies.

"1.9 Reduce Corporate Income Tax to 23% in 2012 and to 20% in 2013 so as to generate competitiveness of the private sector, to broaden the tax base and to support entry to the ASEAN Community in 2015."

Related to minimum wages we had

"1.8.2 Enable a worker to earn not less than 300 Baht per day and a bachelor’s degree holder to have an income of not less than 15,000 Baht per month which will be in line with his/her productivity and efficiency; implement counter-measures to reduce the burden of entrepreneurs whom have been affected by the abovementioned measures so that workers and personnel can make a living with dignity and obtain a decent quality of life."

Well that's as maybe, but a defacto corporate tax cut, should have helped companies to maintain profitability despite the wage increase.

Till now I've only been able to find some remarks that more than 50% of the Thai labour force is employed by SME's. I have never seen any data on what type of companies profited most from the Corporate Tax reduction neither a relation to companies profiting and the number of labourers in their employ on minimum wages.

The unwillingness or inability to provide insight may suggest more wishful thinking than solid based policy.

Have you seen any such data?

Edited June 27, 2015 by rubl

[Thai at Heart]

[

Yes, the previous government reduced Corporate tax from 30% via 23% to 20%. This had nothing to do with the planned increase of the Minimum Wage. The decrease was was one of the 'urgent to be implemented points Ms. Yingluck read out on the 9th of August 2011 when presenting her governments policies.

"1.9 Reduce Corporate Income Tax to 23% in 2012 and to 20% in 2013 so as to generate competitiveness of the private sector, to broaden the tax base and to support entry to the ASEAN Community in 2015."

Related to minimum wages we had

"1.8.2 Enable a worker to earn not less than 300 Baht per day and a bachelor’s degree holder to have an income of not less than 15,000 Baht per month which will be in line with his/her productivity and efficiency; implement counter-measures to reduce the burden of entrepreneurs whom have been affected by the abovementioned measures so that workers and personnel can make a living with dignity and obtain a decent quality of life."

Well that's as maybe, but a defacto corporate tax cut, should have helped companies to maintain profitability despite the wage increase.

Till now I've only been able to find some remarks that more than 50% of the Thai labour force is employed by SME's. I have never seen any data on what type of companies profited most from the Corporate Tax reduction neither a relation to companies profiting and the number of labourers in their employ on minimum wages.

The unwillingness or inability to provide insight may suggest more wishful thinking than solid based policy.

Have you seen any such data?

Hey, they can only give a tax cut. If it had been a raise, it would have been worse. I don't see why its relevant whether its an SME of any other. Are you implying that smes don't pat tax. Naughty naughty.

I am just postulating that on one level minimum wages went up and corporate taxes went down. One helps to mitigate the other.

[rubl]

[

Yes, the previous government reduced Corporate tax from 30% via 23% to 20%. This had nothing to do with the planned increase of the Minimum Wage. The decrease was was one of the 'urgent to be implemented points Ms. Yingluck read out on the 9th of August 2011 when presenting her governments policies.

"1.9 Reduce Corporate Income Tax to 23% in 2012 and to 20% in 2013 so as to generate competitiveness of the private sector, to broaden the tax base and to support entry to the ASEAN Community in 2015."

Related to minimum wages we had

"1.8.2 Enable a worker to earn not less than 300 Baht per day and a bachelor’s degree holder to have an income of not less than 15,000 Baht per month which will be in line with his/her productivity and efficiency; implement counter-measures to reduce the burden of entrepreneurs whom have been affected by the abovementioned measures so that workers and personnel can make a living with dignity and obtain a decent quality of life."

Well that's as maybe, but a defacto corporate tax cut, should have helped companies to maintain profitability despite the wage increase.

Till now I've only been able to find some remarks that more than 50% of the Thai labour force is employed by SME's. I have never seen any data on what type of companies profited most from the Corporate Tax reduction neither a relation to companies profiting and the number of labourers in their employ on minimum wages.

The unwillingness or inability to provide insight may suggest more wishful thinking than solid based policy.

Have you seen any such data?

Hey, they can only give a tax cut. If it had been a raise, it would have been worse. I don't see why its relevant whether its an SME of any other. Are you implying that smes don't pat tax. Naughty naughty.

I am just postulating that on one level minimum wages went up and corporate taxes went down. One helps to mitigate the other.

OK, so like me you don't have clear data on this and like me you're doomed to speculation based on thoughts rather than data.

[Thai at Heart]

[

Yes, the previous government reduced Corporate tax from 30% via 23% to 20%. This had nothing to do with the planned increase of the Minimum Wage. The decrease was was one of the 'urgent to be implemented points Ms. Yingluck read out on the 9th of August 2011 when presenting her governments policies.

"1.9 Reduce Corporate Income Tax to 23% in 2012 and to 20% in 2013 so as to generate competitiveness of the private sector, to broaden the tax base and to support entry to the ASEAN Community in 2015."

Related to minimum wages we had

"1.8.2 Enable a worker to earn not less than 300 Baht per day and a bachelor’s degree holder to have an income of not less than 15,000 Baht per month which will be in line with his/her productivity and efficiency; implement counter-measures to reduce the burden of entrepreneurs whom have been affected by the abovementioned measures so that workers and personnel can make a living with dignity and obtain a decent quality of life."

Well that's as maybe, but a defacto corporate tax cut, should have helped companies to maintain profitability despite the wage increase.

Till now I've only been able to find some remarks that more than 50% of the Thai labour force is employed by SME's. I have never seen any data on what type of companies profited most from the Corporate Tax reduction neither a relation to companies profiting and the number of labourers in their employ on minimum wages.

The unwillingness or inability to provide insight may suggest more wishful thinking than solid based policy.

Have you seen any such data?

Hey, they can only give a tax cut. If it had been a raise, it would have been worse. I don't see why its relevant whether its an SME of any other. Are you implying that smes don't pat tax. Naughty naughty.

I am just postulating that on one level minimum wages went up and corporate taxes went down. One helps to mitigate the other.

OK, so like me you don't have clear data on this and like me you're doomed to speculation based on thoughts rather than data.

All I said, was that they were given a tax break. I didn't imply anything, other than further on the accepted concept that if you cut corporate taxes, profitability of companies should rise.

I think we can say that would be a fairly logical conclusion. Of course, the game for Thai SME is to insert all available expenses into the company so there isn't any profit anyway.

That however isn't the govt problem. All they can do is manage the rate. The fact that they employ every distant cousin and load mercs and other expenses into the company isn't their problem.

What is the acceptable "other" unnacounted expense in a medium Thai company? Its gigantic as a final number.

So, I am not sure what you want me to prove. Yes they got a tax break and if you would like to infer that this doesn't provide any help to mitigate an increase in the minimum wage, well, that's up to you. You are wrong,but that's up to you too.

In which case, I suggest they cut the minimum wage but tax companies more and pay every minimum wage employee a monthly stipend of 2000 baht.

Does that work for you?

[rubl]

Till now I've only been able to find some remarks that more than 50% of the Thai labour force is employed by SME's. I have never seen any data on what type of companies profited most from the Corporate Tax reduction neither a relation to companies profiting and the number of labourers in their employ on minimum wages.

The unwillingness or inability to provide insight may suggest more wishful thinking than solid based policy.

Have you seen any such data?

Hey, they can only give a tax cut. If it had been a raise, it would have been worse. I don't see why its relevant whether its an SME of any other. Are you implying that smes don't pat tax. Naughty naughty.

I am just postulating that on one level minimum wages went up and corporate taxes went down. One helps to mitigate the other.

OK, so like me you don't have clear data on this and like me you're doomed to speculation based on thoughts rather than data.

All I said, was that they were given a tax break. I didn't imply anything, other than further on the accepted concept that if you cut corporate taxes, profitability of companies should rise.

I think we can say that would be a fairly logical conclusion. Of course, the game for Thai SME is to insert all available expenses into the company so there isn't any profit anyway.

That however isn't the govt problem. All they can do is manage the rate. The fact that they employ every distant cousin and load mercs and other expenses into the company isn't their problem.

What is the acceptable "other" unnacounted expense in a medium Thai company? Its gigantic as a final number.

So, I am not sure what you want me to prove. Yes they got a tax break and if you would like to infer that this doesn't provide any help to mitigate an increase in the minimum wage, well, that's up to you. You are wrong,but that's up to you too.

In which case, I suggest they cut the minimum wage but tax companies more and pay every minimum wage employee a monthly stipend of 2000 baht.

Does that work for you?

You assume, assume some more and then start to draw conclusions from what you assumed. That may work for you, but not for me.

Now let's see "accepted concept that if you cut corporate taxes, profitability of companies should rise." Well,, maybe in principle, but it depends on the regulations regarding Corporate Tax and even the effect BOI has on it. Is there a minimum 'revenue' you need to generate as corporation before you need to start to pay CT? Are there possible deductions? Are that limits, etc., etc.

Somehow I get the impression that a Corporate Tax cut from 30% to 20% profits larger corporations more than smaller ones.

As I wrote I didn't see any real data on this and neither did you it seems. Your assumptions are too much guess work (to me at least).

[Thai at Heart]

Till now I've only been able to find some remarks that more than 50% of the Thai labour force is employed by SME's. I have never seen any data on what type of companies profited most from the Corporate Tax reduction neither a relation to companies profiting and the number of labourers in their employ on minimum wages.

The unwillingness or inability to provide insight may suggest more wishful thinking than solid based policy.

Have you seen any such data?

Hey, they can only give a tax cut. If it had been a raise, it would have been worse. I don't see why its relevant whether its an SME of any other. Are you implying that smes don't pat tax. Naughty naughty.

I am just postulating that on one level minimum wages went up and corporate taxes went down. One helps to mitigate the other.

OK, so like me you don't have clear data on this and like me you're doomed to speculation based on thoughts rather than data.

All I said, was that they were given a tax break. I didn't imply anything, other than further on the accepted concept that if you cut corporate taxes, profitability of companies should rise.

I think we can say that would be a fairly logical conclusion. Of course, the game for Thai SME is to insert all available expenses into the company so there isn't any profit anyway.

That however isn't the govt problem. All they can do is manage the rate. The fact that they employ every distant cousin and load mercs and other expenses into the company isn't their problem.

What is the acceptable "other" unnacounted expense in a medium Thai company? Its gigantic as a final number.

So, I am not sure what you want me to prove. Yes they got a tax break and if you would like to infer that this doesn't provide any help to mitigate an increase in the minimum wage, well, that's up to you. You are wrong,but that's up to you too.

In which case, I suggest they cut the minimum wage but tax companies more and pay every minimum wage employee a monthly stipend of 2000 baht.

Does that work for you?

You assume, assume some more and then start to draw conclusions from what you assumed. That may work for you, but not for me.

Now let's see "accepted concept that if you cut corporate taxes, profitability of companies should rise." Well,, maybe in principle, but it depends on the regulations regarding Corporate Tax and even the effect BOI has on it. Is there a minimum 'revenue' you need to generate as corporation before you need to start to pay CT? Are there possible deductions? Are that limits, etc., etc.

Somehow I get the impression that a Corporate Tax cut from 30% to 20% profits larger corporations more than smaller ones.

As I wrote I didn't see any real data on this and neither did you it seems. Your assumptions are too much guess work (to me at least).

Corporate tax is corporate tax. Can be any of the following

[http://www]

Corporate Income Tax (CIT) is a direct tax levied on a juristic company or partnership carrying on business in Thailand or not carrying on business in Thailand but deriving certain types of income from Thailand.

[http://www]

1.1 A company or a juristic partnership incorporated under Thai law.

(1) Limited company

(2) public company limited

(3) limited partnership

(4) registered partnership

1.2 A company or a juristic partnership incorporated under foreign law

1.2.1 A company or juristic partnership incorporated under foreign laws and carrying on business in Thailand.

1.2.2 A company or juristic partnership incorporated under foreign laws and carrying on business in other places including Thailand.

1.2.3 A company or juristic partnership incorporated under foreign laws and carrying on business in other places including Thailand , in case of carriage of goods or carriage of passengers

1.2.4 A company or juristic partnership incorporated under foreign laws which has an employee, an agent or a go-between for carrying on business in Thailand and as a result receives income or profits in Thailand.

1.2.5 A company or juristic partnership incorporated under foreign laws and not carrying on business in Thailand but receiving assessable income under Section 40 (2)(3)(4)(5) or (6) which is paid from or in Thailand.

1.3 A business operating in a commercial or profitable manner by a foreign government, organization of a foreign government or any other juristic person established under a foreign law.

1.4 Joint venture

1.5 A foundation or association carrying on revenue generating business, but does not include the foundation or association as prescribed by the Minister in accordance with Section 47 (7) ( under Revenue Code

Anyone issuing an invoice basically

Of course to benefit from a tax cut, you have to be "in it, to win it". I don't call assuming that a tax cut leaves more money in a company pocket some kind of crazy assumption.

That would as dumb as supposing that putting up the minimum wage would not cost a company more.

Cutting from 30 to 20 helps them all. Why it would help a large company any more than a small one is beyond me. A cut is a cut.

In fact, one could look at foreign exporters and believe they transfer price their profits out of Thailand anyway, so a cut doesnt obviously help them much.

I fail to see how you can possibly say that giving a tax to companies doesn't leave more money in their pocket. I mean honestly, one may as well park ones brain at the entrance to the discussion completely if one cannot assume that.

Hello, last year you made a million and paid 30%, thus year you made and million and pay 20% isnt that hard to assume. If, the minimum wage cut into profitability by 15%, they have 850k at 20% to pay.

Where would you rather be?

[wolfmanjack]

I have an exercise for you Mr. P. Go live on 300 baht a day for one month then come back and make a decision.

You will not be allowed to have a phone. You must try to save money for a phone and at the end of 1 month see how much you have managed to save. Extrapolate this one month of savings to determine how long it will take you to save enough for the phone you want. You must live in a rented room with no air conditioning or refrigerator. After all, how could you save if you had AC and a refrigerator. Alternatively, you could save for a refrigerator, but we all know the first technology a Thai needs is a phone.

You will be allowed one rife so you can hunt rats or anything other wild live creatures to help feed yourself. Relatives can supply your Kao Neow. Be careful not to pick vegetables from growing crops people own. Wild vegetables/plants/flowers will be just fine.

Happy trails Mr. P.

Give me a break. I have 2 workers that make 300 baht a day. Of course they don't have air con but they have a 60,00 baht motorcycle, a refrigerator and a smart phone. They drink Hong Thong every weekend and I see quite a few Leo bottles laying around their house. I would imagine that if they did not have enough for food they would stop drinking hong thong and leo beer. Of course rich people would not like living like that but it isn't like they are living in a card board box on the street making 300 baht a day.