Camronwit's gun found to be unregistered

[Baerboxer]

A stupid arrogant man committing a stupid crime in the wrong country where he won’t walk away from justice because he has no high ranking Hi So friends in Japan let’s hope he serves a lot more time than a week for carrying an unregistered gun on to a plane and then trying to return on a plane with similar item I even had to bin a bottle of 30 year old Scotch at airport one time he could have just binned his gun and got on with life and his journey.

Jim - do you really think that if you are caught with a loaded revolver in your hand luggage you can just bin it - like a pair of nail scissors?

Have you been on more of the 30 year old from your brother?

I got stopped once at Birmingham Airport in the UK for having a Kuboton key chain. The over excited female security guard insisted on calling the police. A rather nice British bobby told me I good board it, i.e they bag it and put it somewhere safe then give me back with my luggage or bin it. I don't think I would have been treated so nicely if I'd been carrying a loaded 5 shot .22 revolver somehow,

[Jimlove]

He deserves everything he gets and more. Someone who has held the position he did should know better

Seems like in that position - as the 230-250,000 other cops - all they learn is to extort their own people. The people they should "Serve and Protect" ... Of course these imbecilles have no idea what that sentence even mean

RTP have for many years been a disgrace to Thailand and its people - they are at best useless and at worst a menace and a murderous gang

[SOTIRIOS]

....an unregistered gun is a crime unto itself...used to commit very serious crimes....I hope they get to the bottom of this...

[little mary sunshine]

Always amused to hear these people

Referred to as HI SO... In The States

They are just "Dirt Bags with an extra

Buck"

[peterq]

You're probably a little more familiar with those arabic numbers than you realize.

You are making the common mistake, that the numerals used for 1 - 10 by English speakers are the same as those used by modern Arabic speakers, based on the commonly held belief that we use "Arabic numbers". The numbers used by English speakers are in fact Indo-Arabic numbers. Here is what modern Arabic speaking people use when writing in Arabic (of course, the use of "English" numerals is widespread in Arab land, as is $):

[wandasloan]

Dimwit, halfwit, nitwit...............I'm not buying his story of forgetting he had it. No one would forget having their unregistered, illegal, loaded weapon in their carry on bag. No one.

Well, apart from the hundreds and hundreds of people who do it every year AND GET CAUGHT doing it by airport security, yes, no one else does it except the ones who are not caught, the Lord alone knows how many of them. Except for the "tiger teams" who test security by successfully smuggling weapons aboard planes to show how incompetent, inattentive, under-trained, bored and, yes, even stupid both the security staff and their machines are doing their airport theatre and security imitations, worldwide. Such as at Suvarnabhumi, for example.

You should look it up, it's educational. Facts are more amazing than your ability to read the general's mind.

Although the last time my daughter flew into Japan from (not-Bangkok), she got behind the guy who had a gun he was carrying on the aircraft to give to someone as a gift. He declared it; he was unaware he couldn't do that.

Obviously, you'd be surprised the kind of people they allow to buy airline tickets and who somehow have obtained a passport. But you should look it up. Lots of fun reads along with the surprises you'll have.

You are making the common mistake, that the numerals used for 1 - 10 by English speakers are the same as those used by modern Arabic speakers, based on the commonly held belief that we use "Arabic numbers". The numbers used by English speakers are in fact Indo-Arabic numbers. Here is what modern Arabic speaking people use when writing in Arabic (of course, the use of "English" numerals is widespread in Arab land, as is $):

You would have a barely interesting point if you could show some photo/text/description/indication that US-patented guns are manufactured somewhere, anywhere, with these numerals you're talking about. But you can't.

This silly sub-thread, based on ONE poorly edited report from ONE newspaper 5,000 miles from the source is... no, I take that back, it's not silly, it's far beyond silly.

This gun, like all US-made guns (yes this one was!), has an alpha-numeric serial number. As the story says in the most convoluted way possible, there are no Thai alpha-numeric markings. As a much wiser poster said many posts before, there is at least one piece of paper somewhere in America stating who bought this gun the first time, and there may be many more, and in other countries, who knows?

I have no idea who does know, but I know who doesn't know and has clearly said so: The Nation. Not to mention a few dozen posters. That includes me, as of now.

Edited June 28, 2015 by wandasloan

[peterq]

You forgot the bit about : " A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun"

"Crafted by the factory that produced the gun". So the Arabic is only to do with the factory is that made it.

It is apparently made by a company called North American Arms Company that has their headquarters in Provo Utah, whether their factory is there or not who knows.

Whatever. The fact that the gun is not registered in Thailand does not mean it was not taken to Japan from Thailand as there will be plenty of unregistered firearms in this country.

It also may have no bearing on the charge of carrying a loaded gun onto a plane but it should leave him open to another charge of being in possession of an unregistered firearm.

There seems to be some confusion as to just which bag the gun was in when he tried to board the plane in Japan but considering that at the very least any reports from Japan have to be translated into English and possibly from Japanese to Thai then to English there is plenty of room for words to be confused.

Arabic numerals or Hindu-Arabic numerals or Indo-Arabic numerals are the ten digits: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. They are the most common symbolic representation of numbers in the world today. The first positional numerical system was developed in Babylon in the 2nd millennium BC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals

As opposed to Thai numerals or Japanese numerals

Halloween, check my earlier reply, the Arabic numerals may well have been those used by modern Arabic speakers when writing, these are NOT the same as English speakers use.

[Greenhill]

According to the reports, he flew out on Thursday and back on Monday and he had 3 check-in bags + 2 hand luggage bags??!!! Talk about travelling 'light'!!!!! How many 'clothes changes' was he anticipating??

As for the gun being unregistered, wouldn't expect anything else from a senior Thai policeman - even, retired!!

[Artisi]

Just wondering , should he also be charged once or if he arrives back in Thailand?

After all he is in possession of unregistered firearm, also an offence in Thailand, not to mention tax evasion[/quote

Is he currently in Thailand with an unregistered gun - just incase you don't understand, no he's not, he's in Japan.

[Soutpeel]

According to the reports, he flew out on Thursday and back on Monday and he had 3 check-in bags + 2 hand luggage bags??!!! Talk about travelling 'light'!!!!! How many 'clothes changes' was he anticipating??

As for the gun being unregistered, wouldn't expect anything else from a senior Thai policeman - even, retired!!

Well some people travel with a bit more than a few dirty "chang" wife beaters, a couple of pairs of walking shorts, white socks and sandals, in a Tesco's bag ,as a lot of farangs do

Edited June 28, 2015 by Soutpeel

[generealty]

Basically- who gives a crap about the stories flying around- EVERYBODY BAR NONE knows you can not take any weapons, especially loaded firearms into an airport, let alone try and take on-board an aircraft, so he knew what he was doing, same as the Thai students trying to return from Pakistan. They all deserve to do time- a long time. NUFF SAID

[TheKnave]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Arabic numbers are 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 - As far as I know their are used most of the time in the Western world as well.

If you see....0.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9. Etc..printed on a object would you call them Arabic numbers? no you wouldn't

To make the point of English and Arabic numbers in the report would indicate once again as another poster has mentioned the 'other' Arabic alphabet was present..otherwise how could you make that statement ..

Yes, I would, as would anyone with a third-grade education or better.

North American Arms is a relatively small gun manufacturer of cheap "belly guns" in Utah. They wouldn't know Arabic script if they fell in a pile of it, much less knowingly put it on their weapons.

I am willing to bet many hundreds of beers on this, and throw in a krapow moo if I lose.

Too many ignorant conspiracy weenies here, I'm afraid...

[fareastguy]

As an aside to this issue there are similarities between Japan and Thailand when it comes to'face'.

In Japan, the stigma of being arrested is great.

Being interrogated by the police can give you a bad image. So, they take their time to be sure they arrest the right person.

Japanese police only make an arrest when they're certain its the right person.

And when the police arrested someone in Japan, they're allowed to keep the person in custody for interrogation for up to 72 hours before that person is allowed a phone call or access to a lawyer.

This is the bad bit for our friend.

99% of the people arrested get convicted.

As apposed to Thailand where 99% of people arrested get to go free !!!

[casualbiker]

Here's how Egyptian rifles are marked in Arabic numbers - if you check the prior sheet provided on page 2, you can translate it yourself without the helpers in the picture (upper is the year of manufacturing -1959, lower the serial number -249). I suppose this is what is meant in Arabic numerals, not "Roman" ones.

Roman numbers are III, IX, VIII etc. Arabic numbers are the numbers that we use in English, because we took them from the Arabs and they replaced the older Roman system. The standard term for these numbers in English is Arabic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals

The gun was printed with these numbers and the English language.

See the photo again for (non-Westernized) Arabic numbers -.-

Aren't they Arabic numerals?

[Pimay1]

If Camronwit is convicted of a crime I wonder if he'll be stripped of his police rank?

[fareastguy]

You forgot the bit about : " A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun"

"Crafted by the factory that produced the gun". So the Arabic is only to do with the factory is that made it.

It is apparently made by a company called North American Arms Company that has their headquarters in Provo Utah, whether their factory is there or not who knows.

Whatever. The fact that the gun is not registered in Thailand does not mean it was not taken to Japan from Thailand as there will be plenty of unregistered firearms in this country.

It also may have no bearing on the charge of carrying a loaded gun onto a plane but it should leave him open to another charge of being in possession of an unregistered firearm.

There seems to be some confusion as to just which bag the gun was in when he tried to board the plane in Japan but considering that at the very least any reports from Japan have to be translated into English and possibly from Japanese to Thai then to English there is plenty of room for words to be confused.

Arabic numerals or Hindu-Arabic numerals or Indo-Arabic numerals are the ten digits: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. They are the most common symbolic representation of numbers in the world today. The first positional numerical system was developed in Babylon in the 2nd millennium BC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals

As opposed to Thai numerals or Japanese numerals

Only 5 words to consider:

Caught red handed... deep shit !!

[Soutpeel]

If Camronwit is convicted of a crime I wonder if he'll be stripped of his police rank?

Re-instated and promoted in the ranks of the RTP me thinks...

[jabis]

Here's how Egyptian rifles are marked in Arabic numbers - if you check the prior sheet provided on page 2, you can translate it yourself without the helpers in the picture (upper is the year of manufacturing -1959, lower the serial number -249). I suppose this is what is meant in Arabic numerals, not "Roman" ones.

Roman numbers are III, IX, VIII etc. Arabic numbers are the numbers that we use in English, because we took them from the Arabs and they replaced the older Roman system. The standard term for these numbers in English is Arabic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals

The gun was printed with these numbers and the English language.

See the photo again for (non-Westernized) Arabic numbers -.-

Aren't they Arabic numerals?

Pardon my typos on those couple of occasions - English ain't my mother tongue, so perhaps I can be excused for confusing some grammar at times

[casualbiker]

Here's how Egyptian rifles are marked in Arabic numbers - if you check the prior sheet provided on page 2, you can translate it yourself without the helpers in the picture (upper is the year of manufacturing -1959, lower the serial number -249). I suppose this is what is meant in Arabic numerals, not "Roman" ones.

Roman numbers are III, IX, VIII etc. Arabic numbers are the numbers that we use in English, because we took them from the Arabs and they replaced the older Roman system. The standard term for these numbers in English is Arabic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals

The gun was printed with these numbers and the English language.

See the photo again for (non-Westernized) Arabic numbers -.-

Aren't they Arabic numerals?

Pardon my typos on those couple of occasions - English ain't my mother tongue, so perhaps I can be excused for confusing some grammar at times

Ahhh OK. You're American. You're excused!!!!!

55555

[jabis]

Ahhh OK. You're American. You're excused!!!!!

55555

Wrong continent - I'd urge you to try again, but that would be too OT for this post x)

Well I think we still agree on topic, that the good general is in deep shit, nevermind which registry the gun belongs to, so no point arguing over irrelevancies

[arend]

What is all the hoopla about whether the gun was registered? That would be a Thai issue and a secondary issue ie possessing an unregistered/unreported gun. The alleged crime is carrying a loaded gun into the passenger cabin of a passenger plane. Extremely serious offense in today's climate.

The last article showed a pic of the gun which was a derringer sized, one shot 22 pistol. Easy to miss in an X-ray scan. How did this change to a full size 5 shot pistol?

Are the conspiracy theorists and spin doctors just having a binge?...

Really.

So having an unregistered and therefore illegal weapon in your possession, lying to the police (apparently) that it was registered in your own country and not being able to produce documentary evidence won't be of interest to the Japanese police, IYO. They will just charge him with attempting to carry it on a plane. You reckon? Hope you're not a lawyer.

The alleged crime(s) will be what the prosecutors decide to charge him with. Of course they may decide the gun was carried in from Thailand, is registered to him there, and it was all a mistake. He forgot he put it in his bag, forgot he shouldn't take it on a plane, take it to another country, bring it back on a plane, carry it loaded and forgot where he put all the documentation. Easy mistakes when you're forgetful.

It's a 5 shot .22 caliber derringer revolver. Hardly the key chain toy one top Thai copy tried to pass it off as. Plenty of information on this thread about the type of gun. And no, not easy to miss if security are doing their job right.

No, I'm not a lawyer and would probably be a lousy one anyway.

However, the unregistered gun is a crime in Thailand not Japan unless Japan has a law requiring a gun be registered in a person's home country before being allowed in which it probably does have. But, of course, it was sneaked in. Seems a bit odd that there would also be a law requiring smuggled weapons be registered. Anyway, seems to me the more significant crime is the smuggling. I fail to see how it's registration status has any real bearing on that. But, that crime pales beside the crime of bringing it aboard the plane.

Now I didn't say the registration would not "be of interest to the Japanese police" which it would but I suspect goes more to understanding motive than a crime. And as we know, understanding motive is often relevant to weighing the seriousness and intent of the crime. But, obviously I don't know Japanese laws in this respect.

I stand corrected re: the 5 shot derringer. Thought I had read single shot. But still rather surprised that such a tiny gun can hold that. However, I still believe it's small size can be easily missed by security, not an excuse just a reality in an overwhelmed system...No comment re: incompetence other than the Japanese caught it, the Thais did not...it's statistically based and a deterrence system not foolproof....ha, well, I guess I commented anyway...

[Mot Dang]

Oh I love this country. Never a dull moment. Turn off the TV, this is real-life. I wonder what comes up on tomorrow's episode.

[The Deerhunter]

Hope had a good long term supply of his medications in that bag. Looks like he is going to need it.

Re Arabic numerals. Pity the report was not clear about whether they were Arabic or universal westernized numbers. I am guessing real Arabic numbers otherwise they would have just said "original factory serial numbers."

P.S. If he did knowingly take it into Japan then, what was he thinking? Makes you wonder if he didn't use some old contacts & get it there but surely "off-ticket" pocket guns must be a dime (well a few thou baht) a dozen here in LOS. Gets more interesting

Edited June 28, 2015 by The Deerhunter

[NovaBlue05]

I'll be passing thru NRT in another week. I'll make a note to leave my handgun at home.

[scorecard]

If Camronwit is convicted of a crime I wonder if he'll be stripped of his police rank?

Good point but no point in much discussion on this right now, check in about 12 years time.

[NickJ]

Ah ha.....suspended penalty.....no jail....just big fine and dont ever ever ever do this again.........Sure.

[JAG]

I know it is wrong, and being Japan it won't happen, but I would find it extremely amusing if this character was offered an "informal settlement" whereby he had to hand over a very large sum of his money in order to ensure that some evidence was "misplaced". Taste of his own medicine and all that.

[sweatalot]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Am I reading this right?

You are trying to bring Thaksin into this story?

Seriously?

Wow!

Just wow!

You think this is far fetched?

I don't

[sweatalot]

It'll be interesting to see the ballistics testing of this "unregistered" firearm and find out how many shootings/executions it's been involved with ...

useless - if they happened in Thailand

[sweatalot]

And what happened to the situation where his son was supposedly flying to Japan to show legal registration papers of the gun?

legal registration papers is an euphemism for big brown envelopes

but this is not Thailand