Israel intercepts Gaza-bound flotilla in 'casualty-free' operation

[ggold]

It wasn't about really helping.

It was about demonizing Israel.

Such a glass half empty comment! It was about highlighting the plight of the Palestinians in Gaza. That fact that there IS a blockade.

And that IS helping.

So it was a PR stunt then, masquerading as genuine aid.

The flotilla achieved 5 things:

1. It proved that Israel is indeed the occupying power

2. Israel is guilty of war crimes by ignoring its duty of care to occupied peoples and practicing collective punishment by maintaining a blockade.

3. Some aid will eventually get through hopefully.

4. Those brave activists demonstrated to the world that Occupied Palestinians are not alone and that many millions do care.

5. Generated negative PR for the repressive Israeli regime.

Successful mission accomplished...and no lives lost. Good.

1. It proved that Israel is indeed the occupying power

The only occupier is Egypt who have a buffer zone in southern Gaza, to stop smuggling of arms to ISIS

2. Israel is guilty of war crimes by ignoring its duty of care to occupied peoples and practicing collective punishment by maintaining a blockade.

Hamas are guilty of war crimes for holding the people of Gaza in a state of missery. Israel sends tones of aid into Gaza on a daily basis. Hamas takes this aid and uses it for their own ends.

3. Some aid will eventually get through hopefully.

There was no aid on the ships. But as I said Israel sends aid to Gaza on a daily basis, Even Qatar have aknowledged this.

4. Those brave activists demonstrated to the world that Occupied Palestinians are not alone and that many millions do care.

If they cared so much why was there no aid on the ships?

5. Generated negative PR for the repressive Israeli regime.

It didn't generate any PR it was hardly headline news, in fact TV posters are making more of it than even the Palestinians! lol

Successful mission accomplished...and no lives lost. Good.

how was it mission accomplished? they had no aid they didn't break the legal blockade.

The only thing you got right is that now lives were lost.

[Elfin]

"800 trucks a day of supplies cross over into Gaza from Israel."

I don't know where you plucked this figure from SD, but since the blockade began in 2007, only 1/4 of Gazas daily needs are trucked in because as an Israeli minister said at the time "Gaza is being put on a diet". Items blockaded include jam, pasta, coriander, crayons and children's colouring books-all of which are considered dangerous by Israel.

I will continue to support organisations such as Boycott, Divest and Sanction (BDS) and Jewish Voice for Peace until justice is done against Netanyahoo's right-wing-ratbags.

With Israel allowed to do whatever it wants with impunity, no one is safe in international waters.

But it can't last forever and the blockade will be broken and one day soon, and gone forever!

[Ulysses G.]

The information in your post is load of tosh and Steely Dan's was correct. There is no limit on food going into Gaza. Israel assists in transferring goods and indeed approximately 800 trucks a day have recently brought into Gaza more than 1.6 million tons of goods. If your numbers were ever correct, I was long time ago.

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=67685

Edited July 11, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Elfin]

Quote "I was long time ago."

You were a long time ago Ulysses.

It is OK old man

[Linky]

Be nice to see a US warship go near and Israel attempt to board it. Its all legal so the US wont mind.

Good on the flotilla for not doing anything to warrant Israel killng all on board, in the name of defense of course.

Israel just gave even more countries a reason to recognise Palestine, the list keeps growing. Get used to the isolation Israel, your hand will be forced soon.

[geriatrickid]

It wasn't about really helping.

It was about demonizing Israel.

Such a glass half empty comment! It was about highlighting the plight of the Palestinians in Gaza. That fact that there IS a blockade.

And that IS helping.

There isn't a blockade because the Arabs can bring things through the border crossings. Ships can bring goods into Gaza, but they must go to a nearby port for inspection. A blockade would mean that no goods of any kind could enter. In this case, Israel bans military use goods. One can't blame Israel from delaying the rearming of a group of people sworn to its destruction.

[geriatrickid]

Be nice to see a US warship go near and Israel attempt to board it. Its all legal so the US wont mind.

Good on the flotilla for not doing anything to warrant Israel killng all on board, in the name of defense of course.

Israel just gave even more countries a reason to recognise Palestine, the list keeps growing. Get used to the isolation Israel, your hand will be forced soon.

Why not ask why a Turkish naval vessel doesn't do that. How about an Iranian warship?

Are you aware that Egyptian warships have entered the restricted zone? They were chasing Gaza smugglers.

[Seastallion]

It wasn't about really helping.

It was about demonizing Israel.

Such a glass half empty comment! It was about highlighting the plight of the Palestinians in Gaza. That fact that there IS a blockade.

And that IS helping.

There isn't a blockade because the Arabs can bring things through the border crossings. Ships can bring goods into Gaza, but they must go to a nearby port for inspection. A blockade would mean that no goods of any kind could enter. In this case, Israel bans military use goods. One can't blame Israel from delaying the rearming of a group of people sworn to its destruction.

You'd better take that up with UG et al because they all say "the blockade is legal".

[RuamRudy]

Ok, just to reiterate what I wrote earlier, the Israeli blockade is LEGAL regardless of how many times people post to the contrary, though I can see where the confusion comes from when even CNN can't get their basic facts right.

http://honestreporting.com/cnns-blockade-against-accuracy/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

The relevant ruling is the Palmer report of September 2011, from the UN itself.

It may be legal but it doesn't necessarily make it MORAL.

There is a very detailed list of banned items on Wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_imports

You will see that the list has changed over the years, but a very small selection of highlights of highly dangerous items which have, at some point, been banned, include: crayons, A4 paper, soccer balls, wheelchairs, chocolate, shoes, potato chips.

I defy anyone on this thread to justify how any of these items could be banned for any reason other than to demoralise and dehumanize a nation of people who have already been persecuted so much.

[RuamRudy]

It wasn't about really helping.

It was about demonizing Israel.

"One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." Martin Luther King Jr.

[RuamRudy]

Ok, just to reiterate what I wrote earlier, the Israeli blockade is LEGAL regardless of how many times people post to the contrary, though I can see where the confusion comes from when even CNN can't get their basic facts right.

http://honestreporting.com/cnns-blockade-against-accuracy/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

The relevant ruling is the Palmer report of September 2011, from the UN itself.

It may be legal but it doesn't necessarily make it MORAL.

There is a very detailed list of banned items on Wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_imports

You will see that the list has changed over the years, but a very small selection of highlights of highly dangerous items which have, at some point, been banned, include: crayons, A4 paper, soccer balls, wheelchairs, chocolate, shoes, potato chips.

I defy anyone on this thread to justify how any of these items could be banned for any reason other than to demoralise and dehumanize a nation of people who have already been persecuted so much.

Not a peep from the usual apologists, who are usually so active! Please, somebody, anybody, explain to me why the Israeli government banned crayons from Gaza!

Edited July 12, 2015 by RuamRudy

[Jingthing]

Don't be so daft with your baiting BS.

There isn't anyone I know of posting here who supports every specific policy, past, present, or future of the Israeli government.

What supporters of Israel do support is the right of Israel to exist, the right of Israel to defend itself from organizations like Hamas, BDS, ISIS, Iran regime, Hezbollah, etc. which have clear goals to end of the existence of Israel.

If you're trying to boil this down to crayons ... you're wasting your time.

I don't know any logical reason to deny crayons and if there isn't, of course I would be against it.

I notice you say nothing about the Hamas rockets and the terror Hamas brings down on their own people, including children.

But that's not interesting to people totally obsessed with demonizing the only Jewish majority state in the world, Israel.

If you're sincerely specifically very interested in crayons, I'm sure you can do some research about that, see if that is the current policy, and make some inquiries to people who might know about that. Then you are free to protest about things like that if you're not satisfied. You're not talking to the Israeli government here and it's not cool to set up supporters of the existence of Israel posting on Thaivisa as being supportive of each and every crappy thing Israel has ever done. No country is perfect. Certainly not Israel. I'm sure not your home country either. We're not talking about perfection. We're talking about the right of Israel to defend itself against strong forces dedicated to wiping it out. Israel has every right to do that, WITHOUT APOLOGIES, in general, as does any sovereign nation. As I'm sure would your home country if facing thousands of rocket attacks into their land.

Crayons? I don't know why either and would not defend that unless a good explanation is given.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Jingthing

[RuamRudy]

Don't be so daft with your baiting BS.

There isn't anyone I know of posting here who supports every specific policy, past, present, or future of the Israeli government.

What supporters of Israel do support is the right of Israel to exist, the right of Israel to defend itself from organizations like Hamas, BDS, ISIS, Iran regime, Hezbollah, etc. which have clear goals to end of the existence of Israel.

If you're trying to boil this down to crayons ... you're wasting your time.

I don't know any logical reason to deny crayons and if there isn't, of course I would be against it.

I notice you say nothing about the Hamas rockets and the terror Hamas brings down on their own people, including children.

But that's not interesting to people totally obsessed with demonizing the only Jewish majority state in the world, Israel.

If you're sincerely specifically very interested in crayons, I'm sure you can do some research about that, see if that is the current policy, and make some inquiries to people who might know about that. Then you are free to protest about things like that if you're not satisfied. You're not talking to the Israeli government here and it's not cool to set up supporters of the existence of Israel posting on Thaivisa as being supportive of each and every crappy thing Israel has ever done. No country is perfect. Certainly not Israel. I'm sure not your home country either. We're not talking about perfection. We're talking about the right of Israel to defend itself against strong forces dedicated to wiping it out. Israel has every right to do that, WITHOUT APOLOGIES, in general, as does any sovereign nation. As I'm sure would your home country if facing thousands of rocket attacks into their land.

Crayons? I don't know why either and would not defend that unless a good explanation is given.

This thread is specifically about the blockade - the petty, vindictive restriction imposed by the Israeli government are an intrinsic part of this thread. You are showing a blind refusal to accept the Israeli tactics - keep the Palestinians down, keep feeding their inate sense of injustice, keep Hamas firing those rockets, keep pounding them back into the stone age - keep those US dollars filling the government coffers and their own Swiss bank accounts, plus also justify further theft of Palestinian land, and so it goes on ad nauseum.

You are welcome to review my previous posts - I have condemned Hamas and their actions on several occasions. They are counterproductive to any peaceful negotiation, but so is Israeli government. The difference between you and me is that I can see that both sides are in the wrong. You repeatedly stand up for one of the aggressors.

[Jingthing]

Honestly, over the years posting on Israel topics here, I have moved to the right. That is because it has become more clear to me that those obsessed with demonizing Israel have no respect whatsoever for the right of Israel to exist and defend itself and quite often their hatred of Israel is conflated with hatred of Jews. Many have observed that nobody's politics are ever changed with discussions like this. That everyone is entrenched on their side. But I have changed. From a liberal "J Street" type to someone who is starting to get the POV of people who call the west bank Judea and Samaria. Yes, American Jews are much more about liberal guilt trips. I have learned Israeli Jews don't have that luxury. Israeli Jews are living in Israel. Their POV trying to thrive and remain strong in such a hostile neighborhood is much more compelling.

Yes I do know that there are many left wing Israeli Jews as well, but they are minority, where as in the U.S., they are the majority,

Edited July 12, 2015 by Jingthing

[RuamRudy]

Honestly, over the years posting on Israel topics here, I have moved to the right. That is because it has become more clear to me that those obsessed with demonizing Israel have no respect whatsoever for the right of Israel to exist and defend itself and quite often their hatred of Israel is conflated with hatred of Jews. Many have observed that nobody's politics are ever changed with discussions like this. That everyone is entrenched on their side. But I have changed. From a liberal "J Street" type to someone who is starting to get the POV of people who call the west bank Judea and Samaria. Yes, American Jews are much more about liberal guilt trips. I have learned Israeli Jews don't have that luxury. Israeli Jews are living in Israel. Their POV trying to thrive and remain strong in such a hostile neighborhood is much more compelling.

Yes I do know that there are many left wing Israeli Jews as well, but they are minority, where as in the U.S., they are the majority,

I think that, certainly on TV, you are tilting at windmills. I see very few posts where people are openly anti-semitic - sure, many would wish that the state of Israel was never founded, but saying so is not an attack on Judaism, but on the policies of the government of the country.

And, realistically, much as I wish Israel had never come into being (and had never needed to come into being), I am not naive enough to think it is going away any time soon, and do not advocate for it to happen. However my inate sense of justice and right does not allow me to support the actions of their government; much as I do not support the needling of Israel by Hamas, another corrupt organisation more concerned with accumulating cash than achieving a lasting peace.

Basically, I do not believe that either side wants peace - they both enjoy their status and the fruits that conflct brings, and meanwhile the poor, ordinary Palestinians pay the price.

Edited July 12, 2015 by RuamRudy

[Elfin]

JINGTHING:

You keep trying to justify Israel's blockade with wildly innacurate statements such as this:

"As I'm sure would your home country if facing thousands of rocket attacks into their land."

You know as well as I do that 99.9% of these rockets land in open spaces, doing no harm. They are little home-made rockets that have no directional capabilities, and some of them don't even have explosives in them. They are launched more out of protest against the Oppressor's blockade than actually trying to harm anyone. Some of them don't even make it out of Gaza!

Compare these with the US-supplied laser guided 1000-ton bunker busters that Israel unleashes with impunity on the hapless Palestinian civilians, wiping out whole families, apartment buildings, HOSPITALS, schools and UN shelters! Thousands of these US supplied weapons have been fired into Gaza by the IDF.

Just tell your right-wing Israeli mates to lift the blockade and let the Gazan children enjoy crayons, colouring-in books and coriander again!!

BDS

Edited July 12, 2015 by Elfin

[Jingthing]

Elfin, that was pure rubbish presenting the recent conflict totally out of context.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Only interested is hearing from people with sincere, non-inflamatory POVs.

I won't waste my time being a target of Israel demonizing personally BAITING posts.

Criticism of Israel fine, much of it is deserved if it's normal and balanced as against any government.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

JINGTHING:

You keep trying to justify Israel's blockade with wildly innacurate statements such as this:

"As I'm sure would your home country if facing thousands of rocket attacks into their land."

You know as well as I do that 99.9% of these rockets land in open spaces, doing no harm. They are little home-made rockets that have no directional capabilities, and some of them don't even have explosives in them. They are launched more out of protest against the Oppressor's blockade than actually trying to harm anyone. Some of them don't even make it out of Gaza!

Compare these with the US-supplied laser guided 1000-ton bunker busters that Israel unleashes with impunity on the hapless Palestinian civilians, wiping out whole families, apartment buildings, HOSPITALS, schools and UN shelters! Thousands of these US supplied weapons have been fired into Gaza by the IDF.

Just tell your right-wing Israeli mates to lift the blockade and let the Gazan children enjoy crayons, colouring-in books and coriander again!!

BDS

BDS (lol) in your wet dreams, the Israeli economy grew by 7% in the fourth quarter of 2014 alone. Best to play nice and stop attacking Israel rather than sucking up by far the largest per capita aid donations in the world whilst squandering it on tunnels and tigers rugs for the mansions of Hamas leaders.

[chuckd]

<snip>

Compare these with the US-supplied laser guided 1000-ton bunker busters that Israel unleashes with impunity on the hapless Palestinian civilians, wiping out whole families, apartment buildings, HOSPITALS, schools and UN shelters! Thousands of these US supplied weapons have been fired into Gaza by the IDF.

<snip>

A 1,000 ton bunker buster is also known as a Tactical Nuclear Weapon B61-11.

I don't recall the IDF using nukes so far. Perhaps they did and the media didn't cover it.

Do you have any link to support your allegation?

[Steely Dan]

<snip>

Compare these with the US-supplied laser guided 1000-ton bunker busters that Israel unleashes with impunity on the hapless Palestinian civilians, wiping out whole families, apartment buildings, HOSPITALS, schools and UN shelters! Thousands of these US supplied weapons have been fired into Gaza by the IDF.

<snip>

A 1,000 ton bunker buster is also known as a Tactical Nuclear Weapon B61-11.

I don't recall the IDF using nukes so far. Perhaps they did and the media didn't cover it.

Do you have any link to support your allegation?

The media might well cover it even if said weapons were never used (tired emoticon).

[Elfin]

I meant the 22000 pound bunker buster-my mistake. This was said during the first slaughter of Palestinians that I witnessed called Operation Cant Lead as I recall. There was a HUGE explosion that lit up the whole sky with an incredibly loud noise. The Israeli-American who was commentating-an ex member of the Israeli parliament-said on live TV that it was a bunker-buster and it was used to level an apartment building.

That telecast has stayed in my mind, and it was what absolutely cemented my hate for the zionist movement and Israelis generally.

[Seastallion]

Elfin, that was pure rubbish presenting the recent conflict totally out of context.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Only interested is hearing from people with sincere, non-inflamatory POVs.

I won't waste my time being a target of Israel demonizing personally BAITING posts.

Criticism of Israel fine, much of it is deserved if it's normal and balanced as against any government.

Yeah but the problem is, JT, that ANYTHING you don't like to hear is "inflammatory" to you. The truth hurts sometimes, but it's foolish to ignore it just because you don't like it.

And it's cowardly to try to use forum rules about flames to suppress truths that you don't like.