US envoy confident Australia will manage gay marriage debate

[FritsSikkink]

I do not have to pick a side. It is picked for me. My opening statement defines it. And I'm not apologizing for it.

As a matter of fact everybody's side has been picked by either Nature, or God, or Probability or whatever you like to call it.

I always was and still am very tolerant to many wonderful variations Nature produces - racial and sexual.

But this is where I stop.

Whether you deny it or not - heterosexuals are a vast majority, a norm, and continuation of species depends on it.

Any form of deviation is not a disease and has the right to be. It is a given fact.

No need to try and make normal people feel guilty because of actions of extremists in more than 20 other countries.

Bigotry! Lame rationalization! Bending over! Carrying vaseline! - when talking to me you are wasting time.

And preaching about 20 'progressive' countries be careful. Don't bend it too much. The pendulum may come back someday. May be it is back?

The vast majority is tolerant, understanding even accepting. It is the minority which is demanding, vocal and provocative.

Stop demanding from society what was not intended by Nature.

who are you to say what is intended by nature, homosexuality exist with other species too

1 - if it was a question - you have answered it.

2 - if it is/was created by nature - it is natural.

3 - whether it is/was intended - I am not sure. In fact I think it is a deviation.

4 - it exist with other species too - you are right! - more proof that it is natural.

5 - please, stop this line of arguing. One more question like this and I'll prove to you that you are Naturally Stupid.

prove it was not intended by nature first, like you claim it is

[Scott]

Nonsensical bickering is not going to be tolerated. Continue and warnings and suspensions will be issued.

This thread is about the political situation.

[DeaconJohn]

The ink hasn't even dried yet making "gay marriages" legal, and the bottom feeder lawyers are coming out of the wood work. Philadelphia attorney Conor Corcoran, who bills himself as the nation’s first gay divorce attorney, says he is ready to serve gays and lesbians that will need divorces following the Supreme Court’s ruling last week legalizing same-sex marriage across the country.

You nailed it.

It's not gay marriage that the shysters want... it's gay divorce.

[samran]

I do not have to pick a side. It is picked for me. My opening statement defines it. And I'm not apologizing for it.

As a matter of fact everybody's side has been picked by either Nature, or God, or Probability or whatever you like to call it.

I always was and still am very tolerant to many wonderful variations Nature produces - racial and sexual.

But this is where I stop.

Whether you deny it or not - heterosexuals are a vast majority, a norm, and continuation of species depends on it.

Any form of deviation is not a disease and has the right to be. It is a given fact.

No need to try and make normal people feel guilty because of actions of extremists in more than 20 other countries.

Bigotry! Lame rationalization! Bending over! Carrying vaseline! - when talking to me you are wasting time.

And preaching about 20 'progressive' countries be careful. Don't bend it too much. The pendulum may come back someday. May be it is back?

The vast majority is tolerant, understanding even accepting. It is the minority which is demanding, vocal and provocative.

Stop demanding from society what was not intended by Nature.

Did nature intend marriage?

[samran]

I hope the Australians expel Ambassador John Berry. Berry should keep his gay marriage depravity to himself.

Indeed, let's get back to the buddy buddy good old boys that used to pass for US ambassadors to Australia back in the day for Regan and Bush marks 1 and 2.

To a man, thought they were being posted to Austria.

[MaxYakov]

"Tony Abbott showed no sign on Thursday that he was willing to allow the debate to progress, saying he wanted the government to “remain absolutely focused” on jobs, the economy, and national security." (emphasis mine)

- The Guardian/Austraiia-News July 2, 2015

Just like his counterpart in the US, right?

(That is just after golf, vacation planning, racial division, police brutality, confederate flags, Al Sharpton meetings, white house shindigs, unemployment number manipulation, secret trade deals, preening his legacy, fund-raising, gay relations/appeasement ... )

[thaibeachlovers]

The ink hasn't even dried yet making "gay marriages" legal, and the bottom feeder lawyers are coming out of the wood work. Philadelphia attorney Conor Corcoran, who bills himself as the nation’s first gay divorce attorney, says he is ready to serve gays and lesbians that will need divorces following the Supreme Court’s ruling last week legalizing same-sex marriage across the country.

I love that 55555555555.

Do they know what a crock marriage is- The divorce lawyers are getting ready to make big bucks.

[relocate]

massive waste of time the "gay marriage debate". The government has no authority to approve it, nor does the high court. It is in the constitution so it has to be a referendum.

The high court can only review the interpretation of the constitution if it is not clear. What most people are forgetting is the constitution states that if clarification is required you must review the supporting documents. The bible is one of the supporting documents and it clearly states the definition of marriage.

Don't get me wrong, I really don't care who wants to get married to who. I do care about protecting and ensuring something as important as the constitution is respected and not simply removed from the law making process all together. They have already breached the constitution on many occasions, will this be another breach aka illegal law????

[samran]

massive waste of time the "gay marriage debate". The government has no authority to approve it, nor does the high court. It is in the constitution so it has to be a referendum.

The high court can only review the interpretation of the constitution if it is not clear. What most people are forgetting is the constitution states that if clarification is required you must review the supporting documents. The bible is one of the supporting documents and it clearly states the definition of marriage.

Don't get me wrong, I really don't care who wants to get married to who. I do care about protecting and ensuring something as important as the constitution is respected and not simply removed from the law making process all together. They have already breached the constitution on many occasions, will this be another breach aka illegal law????

The bible one of the supporting documents for the australian constitution? You are having a laugh...

[Jingthing]

So how long until the current Australian government changes to one that will be ready to join this wonderful international movement of furthering LGBT basic civil rights by including them in the choice of marriage?

[samran]

So how long until the current Australian government changes to one that will be ready to join this wonderful international movement of furthering LGBT basic civil rights by including them in the choice of marriage?

It will be an open vote on the floor of the parliament. Problem is the government won't let is members have a free vote on the issue. Even if they did it isn't a sure thing. If newspaper reports are to believed, up to 80% of government members are either no or undecided. The opposition labor party has the catholic right so it won't be a unanimous vote from that side of the house either.

[Prbkk]

I am more than a 'straight' man. All my life I've been strictly a 'lesbian'.

On the other hand I have no objections to people with different tastes or as they call it 'sexual orientation'.

What really pisses me off in all these bitter fights between gays, lesbians and straight groups is the following:

1) Nobody cares who one has sex with. Thus gays, lesbians and heterosexuals have the same civil rights and obligations.

2) Marriage is only for those who potentially can reproduce - ensure continuation of the species - thus it is available only to heterosexuals. As dictated by God, Nature or both. With condolences to all other groups.

3) Any Judge in Australia following in steps with USA Supreme Court in my books is an unnatural cross between a Frankenstein and an Alien.

4) I do not care what kind of a fruit is American Ambassador Berry, - see point 1). But his comments on the way the Australians will debate this issue is a transparent biased and improper attempt to interfere with our sovereign rights.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott should ask him to pack up and go back where he's come from. Diplomatic protocols are not entirely depending on who one has sex with, - again see point 1).

In fairness to the Ambassador, he did not in any way push the gay marriage issue. The interview was broadcast on Radio National and covered many topics. He was at pains to point out that gay marriage was strictly an issue for Australians to contemplate and that he did not have a view about it ( other than discussing the death of his partner and his subsequent marriage to his current partner).

The interviewer tried to push him for a comment about Australia but he was not buying into the discussion.

It's on the RN website to listen to

[Prbkk]

So how long until the current Australian government changes to one that will be ready to join this wonderful international movement of furthering LGBT basic civil rights by including them in the choice of marriage?

If the private member's bill is unsuccessful this year, the real change will come in the first year of the incoming govt ( 2016). If the conservatives get back, they will feel confident enough to allow a conscience vote; if Labour wins they will do the same thing.

The private bill is being proposed by 2 conservative (govt) members and seconded by Labour. On a free vote it would be successful but both parties are fearful of backlash in conservative rural areas ( they have the potential to determine the outcome of the next elections)

[Jingthing]

OK, it sounds to me that this will happen in Australia sometime within the next 10 years.

The people are already there ... the government won't take that long to follow.

[thaibeachlovers]

OK, it sounds to me that this will happen in Australia sometime within the next 10 years.

The people are already there ... the government won't take that long to follow.

The people are already there

555555. The large Muslim part of the population aren't, the real dinkum Aussie bloke will have nothing to do with it ( maybe a bunch of fives in your face ). You are left with the PC liberals and the ABC audience, .

[Jingthing]

OK, it sounds to me that this will happen in Australia sometime within the next 10 years.

The people are already there ... the government won't take that long to follow.

The people are already there

555555. The large Muslim part of the population aren't, the real dinkum Aussie bloke will have nothing to do with it ( maybe a bunch of fives in your face ). You are left with the PC liberals and the ABC audience, .

Yes, as I said.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as perhaps you're not a native English speaker, but it is implied when you say something like "the people are already there" that you mean the MAJORITY of the people. Certainly not all of the people.

Anyway ... ignoring your vitriol:

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/australians-deserve-a-say-on-gay-marriage-20150525-gh8qsg.html

Australia's inability to achieve marriage equality is now an international embarrassment.

...

Opinion polls suggest public support for marriage equality is even higher in Australia than in Ireland, at more than 70 per cent, according to a Crosby Textor poll.

[samran]

OK, it sounds to me that this will happen in Australia sometime within the next 10 years.

The people are already there ... the government won't take that long to follow.

The people are already there

555555. The large Muslim part of the population aren't, the real dinkum Aussie bloke will have nothing to do with it ( maybe a bunch of fives in your face ). You are left with the PC liberals and the ABC audience, .

70% according to Crosby Textor, the pollster of choice for the UK conservatives and the (not so) liberal party of Australia.

This thing is a slam dunk community wise. Seems keating's description of 'unrepresetative swill' can be now applied to the (no so) liberal party caucus.

[relocate]

The bible one of the supporting documents for the australian constitution? You are having a laugh...

No, if you actually bother to read the constitution and read through the supporting documents you will see the bible is one of the supporting documents to be used to define meaning.

Read, research before you make a comment on something you clearly know very little about.

[mmh8]

I wonder what the Russian military attache has to say about it all

[Jingthing]

I wonder what the Russian military attache has to say about it all

Russian government policy at home opposes gay civil rights so what's to wonder about?

[samran]

The bible one of the supporting documents for the australian constitution? You are having a laugh...

No, if you actually bother to read the constitution and read through the supporting documents you will see the bible is one of the supporting documents to be used to define meaning.

Read, research before you make a comment on something you clearly know very little about.

Um, how did this little line make its way into the consitution then? I'm sure that is in the bibe too right?

Ch 5 § 116 The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.

[thaibeachlovers]

OK, it sounds to me that this will happen in Australia sometime within the next 10 years.

The people are already there ... the government won't take that long to follow.

The people are already there

555555. The large Muslim part of the population aren't, the real dinkum Aussie bloke will have nothing to do with it ( maybe a bunch of fives in your face ). You are left with the PC liberals and the ABC audience, .

Yes, as I said.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as perhaps you're not a native English speaker, but it is implied when you say something like "the people are already there" that you mean the MAJORITY of the people. Certainly not all of the people.

Anyway ... ignoring your vitriol:

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/australians-deserve-a-say-on-gay-marriage-20150525-gh8qsg.html

Australia's inability to achieve marriage equality is now an international embarrassment.

...

Opinion polls suggest public support for marriage equality is even higher in Australia than in Ireland, at more than 70 per cent, according to a Crosby Textor poll.

No vitriol intended.

However, if a homosexual tried it on with a real dinkum bloke he would regret it.

Re that opinion poll- how many mine workers and outback residents did they poll?

If I were to take a poll after an ABC audience show, I'm sure I'd get 100% in favour.

Polls are usually pretty meaningless, IMO.

BTW, I doubt many Aussies give a rat's bottom about "international" opinion.

[Jingthing]

Marriage equality laws do nothing to end all the ignorant anti-gay bigots, in Australia or anywhere.

Laws are not the same thing as real life social conditions.

[samran]

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/australians-deserve-a-say-on-gay-marriage-20150525-gh8qsg.html

Australia's inability to achieve marriage equality is now an international embarrassment.

...

Opinion polls suggest public support for marriage equality is even higher in Australia than in Ireland, at more than 70 per cent, according to a Crosby Textor poll.

No vitriol intended.

However, if a homosexual tried it on with a real dinkum bloke he would regret it.

Re that opinion poll- how many mine workers and outback residents did they poll?

If I were to take a poll after an ABC audience show, I'm sure I'd get 100% in favour.

Polls are usually pretty meaningless, IMO.

BTW, I doubt many Aussies give a rat's bottom about "international" opinion.

Crosby Textor is the liberal party's own pollster....

[samuibeachcomber]

Gay marriage what a <deleted> joke! Next people will be allowed to marry animals and children.

Marriage is a traditional bond between a man a day a woman period!!

Ever since the 70's minority groups have shouted louder than the majority and they have got their way,often shouting and stamping their feet like children.

[samran]

Gay marriage what a <deleted> joke! Next people will be allowed to marry animals and children.

Marriage is a traditional bond between a man a day a woman period!!

Ever since the 70's minority groups have shouted louder than the majority and they have got their way,often shouting and stamping their feet like children.

Strange thing these equal rights. People tend to want them.

Funny in this day and age people are still being called uppity for wanting to be treated the same rights under law as everyone else.

[samuibeachcomber]

Dont they have equal rights already with regard to tax laws and welfare laws.but now they want to marry,just tell me whose going to be mummy and whose going to be daddy?

Marraige is an institution to foster and nurture children in the ways of female and male,one is supposed to compliment the other,so please leave marriage alone as it is meant to be,and let same sex relationships be as they are in a defacto status just as heterosexual couples do who decide not to marry.

Equality in every walk of life is just a dream,no one is really equal as we are all different.Different in our intelligence,different in the way we have been raised and the environment we have been brought up in.Communism tried to change all that but it did n't work.

[samran]

Dont they have equal rights already with regard to tax laws and welfare laws.but now they want to marry,just tell me whose going to be mummy and whose going to be daddy?

Marraige is an institution to foster and nurture children in the ways of female and male,one is supposed to compliment the other,so please leave marriage alone as it is meant to be,and let same sex relationships be as they are in a defacto status just as heterosexual couples do who decide not to marry.

Equality in every walk of life is just a dream,no one is really equal as we are all different.Different in our intelligence,different in the way we have been raised and the environment we have been brought up in.Communism tried to change all that but it did n't work.

Equality under the law. Let them have the choice to decide if they want to remain defacto or not.

Who gives a toss who's going to be the mummy or the daddy? How about being a good parent for starters, which many 'mummy's and daddys' can't even pass muster on, but are allowed to be parents anyway...

[teatree]

What happens if the church, which refuses to marry a gay couple, is then taken to court by the couple under discrimination laws?

Is church forced to conduct a ceremony?

[samuibeachcomber]

What happens if the church, which refuses to marry a gay couple, is then taken to court by the couple under discrimination laws?

Is church forced to conduct a ceremony?

Whenever people take umbrage these days they throw the discrimination card around like the f word,really tires me out just thinking about it.Just because a vocal minority want something they cant have out they come with "discrimination or the racist card.Time to realise you can always get what you want.