Legitimizing child, british passport and travelling alone questions.

[Jay2013]

hi all, swadee kap,

Im a little confused on a certain situation with regards to my half thai son.

I am named on his birth certificate as the father but was not present at his birth, but did provide copies of my passport to my girlfriend in order to get my name written

on his birth cert. He has an English name as ive also read this can be an issue with thai authorities.

I understand this does not legitimize me as the father in Thailand.

questions:

1) Do I need to be legitimized as the father in order to apply for a british passport for him or would providing his birth cert which I am named on be ok?

2) When I travel to London with him if he gets his british passport, what would I need in order for him to be allowed to travel with me without his mother,

would copies of his birth cert and translation and a signed agreement from our local ampur saying she gives me permission to travel with him and I have responsibility for him be ok?

3) Does it matter if I am legitimized in Thailand if I plan on raising him in the uk until hes an adult?

4) If I register his birth with the british consulate and get a uk style cert, would this suffice as me being his legal father in Thailand?

all in all, all I care about at the moment is getting his british passport and being allowed to travel with him back to England alone which my girlfriend is allowing me to do and for this, im assuming I don't need to be legitimized as the father in Thailand.

Any help appreciated, thankyou

[paz]

1. No. The birth certificate with your name is enough. There are other restrictions about he being a British citizen or not, but is the simplest of the cases (you being a naturally born British citizen born in the UK and he being born after Jul 1st 2006), these won't apply to him.

2. Yes you will need the parental consent from the mother to travel with him outside Thailand, and Thais are normally required to show their Thai passport when leaving.

3. No. But I recommend to do it anyway. For example that can allow you to travel and stay in Thailand based on that.

4 Yes

Also, please note nobody is half something. Your son is a Thai citizen as well a British Citizen. Thai officers many not like is name but that is not a legal issue whatsoever.

[Mario2008]

You will need the birth certificate when traveling abroad the first time.

3. It can matter, as the mother will have less grounds to challenge you if she changes her mind. (In the sense that you won't have extra hoops to jump through, as that you are the father is a fact that can be proven with DNA testing. But untill you are the legal father the mother has all the rights).

4. No. In Thailand you must follow Thai law not British law. Thailand will not recognise the legitimisation in that way.

[qwertyuiop]

^ I agree with Mario and not paz as regards question nbr 4.

It is my understanding that If you are not legally married to the mother in Thailand then you have neither rights nor obligations as regards the child. In order to receive them you must go through the courts.

It is not a difficult or costly process if your partner is in agreement but it does take a little time 2-3 months. I went through this process myself last year and have posted about it somewhere on this forum

[paz]

Sorry, I misread OP's question 4.

Mario is correct, also I recommend to do the legitimization as I mentioned above in my answer to Q. 3.

[Jay2013]

what is the easiest and quickest way to legitimise me as the father, apart from getting married? Shes willing to do anything with me at the local ampur. Ive tried explaining this all to her but shes insisting I am the legitimate father as im on the birth cert, but I have obviously read different on this forum.

[paz]

what is the easiest and quickest way to legitimise me as the father, apart from getting married? Shes willing to do anything with me at the local ampur. Ive tried explaining this all to her but shes insisting I am the legitimate father as im on the birth cert, but I have obviously read different on this forum.

You can't do that at the Amphur for a young child because in that case it's the responsibility of a Court of Justice to decide. If you want that explained to the mother go together at the Amphur with an independent translator. Reports here mention 2 or 3 months for the courts at the minimum. Possibly you can take a shortcut by marrying, have the relevant documents issued and and then divorcing one week later, but that seems a mere expedient for sure..

[Jay2013]

Right I am beginning to understand this all somewhat.

So I am right in thinking, As long as I have a parental consent form giving me permission to travel with my son from Thailand to the UK if he is successfully issued his British passport, then I don't need to be legitimised as the father first in order to travel with him without his mother? Does anybody know the name of this form?

Thanks for the responses guys

[paz]

So I am right in thinking, As long as I have a parental consent form giving me permission to travel with my son from Thailand to the UK if he is successfully issued his British passport, then I don't need to be legitimised as the father first in order to travel with him without his mother? Does anybody know the name of this form?

Yes, because anyone can travel with a minor as long the parent(s) agree. As mentioned before you will need the original birth certificate also. There is no official form, you can pull any English/Thai example from the internet. It needs to be authenticated by the Amphur.

If you don't legitimize your son in Thailand now, you can still do that when he's 7 or older. In that case no court will be necessary, because the person will be old enough to express his/her will.

[paz]

As long as I have a parental consent form giving me permission to travel with my son from Thailand to the UK if he is successfully issued his British passport,

I just wanted to clarify (even seeing that you're active about that in another thread) that your British/Thai son will need a Thai passport to leave Thailand, because (of course) he never entered Thailand on a British passport.

[Mario2008]

As long as I have a parental consent form giving me permission to travel with my son from Thailand to the UK if he is successfully issued his British passport,

I just wanted to clarify (even seeing that you're active about that in another thread) that your British/Thai son will need a Thai passport to leave Thailand, because (of course) he never entered Thailand on a British passport.

When a foreign child is born in Thailand he never has a passport, and no record of his entry. In that case the child upon leaving Thailand gets a passport frrom his embassy and at immirgaiton shows the passport and birh certificate (which explains why there are no entry details) and that is that.

Provided the child has never left Thailand he can leave on a British passport, in combination with the birth certificate.

[brewsterbudgen]

As long as I have a parental consent form giving me permission to travel with my son from Thailand to the UK if he is successfully issued his British passport,

I just wanted to clarify (even seeing that you're active about that in another thread) that your British/Thai son will need a Thai passport to leave Thailand, because (of course) he never entered Thailand on a British passport.

When a foreign child is born in Thailand he never has a passport, and no record of his entry. In that case the child upon leaving Thailand gets a passport frrom his embassy and at immirgaiton shows the passport and birh certificate (which explains why there are no entry details) and that is that.

Provided the child has never left Thailand he can leave on a British passport, in combination with the birth certificate.

Apologies if this is off topic, but my 3 month old son doesn't yet have a UK passport as I haven't applied yet, but as he has a Lao mother he has already been able to leave Thailand (where he was born) for Laos and then re-enter Thailand. Presumably when he gets a UK passport and we leave Thailand, Thai Immigration will have no issues as there is no documentation showing his Laos visits?

[Mario2008]

If there is no documentation of his leaving and re-entering, his leaving on the British paspsort will be condidered his first time so would only require birth certificate and passport.

[brewsterbudgen]

If there is no documentation of his leaving and re-entering, his leaving on the British paspsort will be condidered his first time so would only require birth certificate and passport.

Thanks. Lao kids seem to be able to come and go as they please, without documentation, across land borders, if they are accompanied by a Lao parent.

[paz]

When a foreign child is born in Thailand he never has a passport, and no record of his entry. In that case the child upon leaving Thailand gets a passport frrom his embassy and at immirgaiton shows the passport and birh certificate (which explains why there are no entry details) and that is that.

Provided the child has never left Thailand he can leave on a British passport, in combination with the birth certificate.

OK. But since the birth certificate shows the child citizenship as Thai, seems peculiar that Immigration lets Thai leave using a foreign passport. On the other hand, they let them do the same even when entering.

[Dah fahrang]

Be prepared.

If you are travelling alone with the child, and the child is using a Thai passport, you will need a letter of consent written by the child's mother, with a declaration of the authenticity of the letter, and signature witnessed by an official at her local amphur, and the letter stamped with the stamp of that amphur.

I have personal experience of this requirement, as last year I travelled alone to UK with my grandson, (he holding two passports - departing on Thai passport, arriving UK on British Passport) me on British Passport only, all with same family name, without such a letter. After significant interrogation, and lengthy phone interrogation of my daughter (child's mother) and computer check on her ID card number by Immigration at Suvarnabhumi, we were allowed to leave, and told "next time, present a letter of consent from the mother". The helpful official explained that because of cases of child snatching, and international trafficking of children, even if we both departed on Thai passports, such a letter would be required before the child could leave the country.

I am making same trip with grandson this autumn, and will have letter written by my daughter, signature witnessed and letter stamped by amphur to make sure the departure is an easy one.

As an old fahrang travelling alone with a 5 year old Thai boy, I am totally in agreement with, and understand such a requirement. I was only sorry my ignorance of it could have cost me my trip, were I to have encountered a less sympathetic immigration officer.

I cannot comment on any requirement for documentation if both departing on UK passports.

Enjoy your upcoming trip with your child.

[Jay2013]

Thanks for the info, I shall type out a letter stating my sons mother gives me permission to travel with him to the uk and get this translated into thai and then signed by my fiancé and stamped in witness at her local ampur, and also have my sons birth cert and a English translation (incase I get interrogated at heathrow) to be on the safe side when leaving swampy. I would like to be legitimised as the father, but simply don't have the time on this visit to go through that process and am glad I will be allowed to travel with my son without going through this process, but will do this at a latter date or once ive married her, or hes old enough to just get it done at an ampur, Although my wife has told me, her Aunt is the village head and has 'contacts' at the local ampur and we may be able to get this done without going through the courts. I will give this a shot and see if I get lucky, if not I guess it will have to wait.

Many thanks guys.

[Jay2013]

Be prepared.

If you are travelling alone with the child, and the child is using a Thai passport, you will need a letter of consent written by the child's mother, with a declaration of the authenticity of the letter, and signature witnessed by an official at her local amphur, and the letter stamped with the stamp of that amphur.

I have personal experience of this requirement, as last year I travelled alone to UK with my grandson, (he holding two passports - departing on Thai passport, arriving UK on British Passport) me on British Passport only, all with same family name, without such a letter. After significant interrogation, and lengthy phone interrogation of my daughter (child's mother) and computer check on her ID card number by Immigration at Suvarnabhumi, we were allowed to leave, and told "next time, present a letter of consent from the mother". The helpful official explained that because of cases of child snatching, and international trafficking of children, even if we both departed on Thai passports, such a letter would be required before the child could leave the country.

I am making same trip with grandson this autumn, and will have letter written by my daughter, signature witnessed and letter stamped by amphur to make sure the departure is an easy one.

As an old fahrang travelling alone with a 5 year old Thai boy, I am totally in agreement with, and understand such a requirement. I was only sorry my ignorance of it could have cost me my trip, were I to have encountered a less sympathetic immigration officer.

I cannot comment on any requirement for documentation if both departing on UK passports.

Enjoy your upcoming trip with your child.

I plan on getting my fiancés and sons thai passports made on the day I land and submit these with the british passport application 5 days later. Only dilemma I have now is that the countersignature bit of the british passport application states he should only fill in that part of the form once the rest of the form has been completed, and I plan on getting this filled before I leave and adding my sons thai passport details to the form once ive reached Bangkok and acquired his passport. Do you think the HMPO would notice this? If questioned I was planning on saying that I had the forms couriered to and from the uk. What do you guys suggest? Should I submit his application and then apply for a thai passport, or get the passport first and just add the thai passport number and details to the british passport form and hope for the best.

[DaveinAsia]

Sorry to open up this topic again but I wanted to know if I will need a letter of consent written by our child's mother to travel if I am married to the mother and the child is legit, I'm the father on the birth certificate.

Thanks for any help.

[ubonjoe]

Sorry to open up this topic again but I wanted to know if I will need a letter of consent written by our child's mother to travel if I am married to the mother and the child is legit, I'm the father on the birth certificate.

Thanks for any help.

You could be asked for the letter. Best to have it in case they do ask for it.

Immigration could suspect you have separated from your wife and was taking the child out of the country without her consent.

[DaveinAsia]

Sorry to open up this topic again but I wanted to know if I will need a letter of consent written by our child's mother to travel if I am married to the mother and the child is legit, I'm the father on the birth certificate.

Thanks for any help.

You could be asked for the letter. Best to have it in case they do ask for it.

Immigration could suspect you have separated from your wife and was taking the child out of the country without her consent.

Thanks Ubonjoe. Is this also the case if the mother will be at the airport to say goodbye?

[ubonjoe]

Not sure how immigration would know she was at the airport to say bye. I guess you could call her and hand the phone to the officer asking for the letter.

[DaveinAsia]

Not sure how immigration would know she was at the airport to say bye. I guess you could call her and hand the phone to the officer asking for the letter.

Makes sense. To avoid any questions/complications it's best to have this letter of consent from the mother signed/stamped by the Amphoe.

Thanks Joe