NCPO, anti-coup students told to engage in dialogue before matters get out of hand

[webfact]

POLITICAL CONFRONTATION
Ease tensions, experts urge
Pravit Rojanaphruk,
Piyaporn Wongruang,
Kasamakorn Chanwanpen
The Nation

NCPO, anti-coup students told to engage in dialogue before matters get out of hand

BANGKOK: -- The escalation of political confrontation between the military junta and the 14 detained anti-coup students and their supporters should be quickly toned down before it is too late, concerned scholars said yesterday.

The call came as Mahidol University peace expert Gothom Arya volunteered to talk to the government in order to avoid the situation getting out of control.

"There's a need to have someone to talk to both sides. I can go and talk to the military," Gothom said yesterday.

Gothom suggested that his colleague Ekaphan Pinthawanij, also a peace and human-rights expert at Mahidol, could talk to the detained students, as many of them know and trust him.

Meanwhile the government stood firm in its stance that the 14 students, who are members of the Neo Democracy Movement (NDM), should be tried in a military court for violating the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) ban on political gatherings of five or more people. The 14, who have also been charged with sedition, face maximum imprisonment of seven years.

The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally.

Chulalongkorn University professor of sociology Surichai Wungaeo said both sides - particularly the government of General Prayut Chan-o-cha - must ease tensions now or risk ruining any hope of forging reconciliation.

Surichai said the NCPO and the Prayut administration must recognise that they cannot resist the tide of global democratisation in the long run.

"We must find a way to de-escalate the situation quickly," Surichai said. As for the detained students, he said they must be careful not to become pawns of those who wanted to see an outright confrontation. "There's a game for total fight and the society is still divided into two sides."

Ekaphan said the latest confrontation showed how deep the conflict really is and called for the end to the use of military courts against students and civilians as a pre-condition for de-escalating the conflict. He said students should also recognise that they can still fight while seeking bail.

General Ekachai Sriwilas, director of the Office of Peace and Governance at King Prajadhipok's Institute, said both sides needed to ask themselves first whether they truly wished to see the problem resolved. This, he added, would help guide their appropriate actions.

At present, both sides have been taking actions that went against the hope for positive results. Ekachai said the students' demand for democracy was justified, but the way they demanded it was problematic as it could fuel strife if violence broke out during their protests. Once there is an outbreak of violence, the military would have no choice but to take harsh measures to suppress it, and that in turn would prolong the process of returning democracy to society.

The government and the NCPO, on the contrary, had some flexibility on how it enforced relevant laws and orders. The NCPO's orders were up to the NCPO to justify, while there were other legal options for the government not to take the students to the military court, but instead to a civil court, he remarked. They need to talk to one another, he concluded.

Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists.

"I won't do it. I can't do it. If I use Article 44 in this case, I will also have to give amnesty to other people too. And the process will be unending," he said.

The student activists have been detained in remand after refusing to seek bail.

Article 44 empowers Prayut, as head of the NCPO, to make any order to strengthen public unity and harmony whenever he sees it necessary for the benefit of reform.

Piyarat Chongthep, a student activist working closely with NDM, said the only fair way to end the current conflict between the junta and the students was to release the 14 detainees unconditionally. She said the students should not be prosecuted because they were innocent.

"Releasing them under Article 44 or granting them amnesty would mean that they are guilty when actually they are not," she said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Ease-tensions-experts-urge-30263575.html


-- The Nation 2015-07-02

[Lupatria]

...also a peace and human-rights expert at Mahidol-

I guess a profile like that will give him a backstage pass at the NCPO with acces to all areas.

[Manbing]

I thought it was illegal to congregate and engage in discussions about the regime?

Isn't that why they got locked up in the first place?

On the other hand the solution is clear. Visit the famed 'counseling division' of the Army.

A crack troop of trained talkers, ready to deploy at a moments notice. No conversation too difficult, no dialogue they are unwilling to traverse. Interlocutors with deadly training.

[Bannum opinions]

".....society is still divided into two sides."

Spoken is if that is a temporary condition and will change.

Political diversity is a fact of life, and to swim against that current is naive.

[Orac]

Given the NCPO and particularly their leaders abilities in PR and diplomacy they would probably be better off just shooting themselves in both feet now and staying well clear of these students who clearly have a huge talent for getting their points across.

[quandow]

"NCPO, anti-coup students told to engage in dialogue before matters get out of hand"

Told by whom?

[lucky11]

"NCPO, anti-coup students told to engage in dialogue before matters get out of hand"

Told by whom?

It is irrelevant, we don't need protests at this juncture and we certainly don't need democracy so it is NOT justified to be seeking this!!

[billd766]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

[heybruce]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

"They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law."

So did Suthep and his minions. The military didn't want to get involved in law enforcement then.

[Fat Haggis]

"NCPO, anti-coup students told to engage in dialogue before matters get out of hand"

Told by whom?

It is irrelevant, we don't need protests at this juncture and we certainly don't need democracy so it is NOT justified to be seeking this!!

We? So you're now a Naturalised Thai citizen with a right to vote for a democracy?

[Fat Haggis]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

Was there a trail over conducting a coup before the Army granted themselves an amnesty? And have adjusted the constitution to continually allow them to blatantly show the same contempt for the law as these students?

The biggest problem with Thaialnd is the military constantly interfering and breaking laws and constitutions themselves. One day they too should be held accountable for their own misdemeanours ?

[billd766]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

"They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law."

So did Suthep and his minions. The military didn't want to get involved in law enforcement then.

You may have missed the fact that the military were not in charge at that time. If the current government of that time had wanted to do something legally about they could and should have done. That they didn't was up to them.

[billd766]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

Was there a trail over conducting a coup before the Army granted themselves an amnesty? And have adjusted the constitution to continually allow them to blatantly show the same contempt for the law as these students?

The biggest problem with Thaialnd is the military constantly interfering and breaking laws and constitutions themselves. One day they too should be held accountable for their own misdemeanours ?

I agree with you on that but I don't think it will happen in my lifetime (I am 71) but it WILL happen in my sons lifetime even though he is only 10.

[baboon]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

Was there a trail over conducting a coup before the Army granted themselves an amnesty? And have adjusted the constitution to continually allow them to blatantly show the same contempt for the law as these students?

The biggest problem with Thaialnd is the military constantly interfering and breaking laws and constitutions themselves. One day they too should be held accountable for their own misdemeanours ?

Quite. It is easy to quote 'Ah well, the law is the law, unfortunately', but sometimes the law isn't the law depending on who you are...

[FangFerang]

Matters are already out of hand....

[Srikcir]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

"They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law."

They deliberately expressed an opinion but did not break THE LAW.

The so-called law you refer to is solely a NCPO issued directive.

Under the NCPO's self-created Interim Charter all directives issued by the NCPO have the authority of law. The NCPO exists because of the military's overthrow of the government and constitution that was in itself a criminal act under Penal Code Chapter 2, Sections 113-114 and under the 2007 Constitution under Article 68.

Any "rule of law" resulting from NCPO directives violates Thai people's sovereignty and therefore, has no standing as being legal.

The students did not violate any part of the Organic Penal Code as they were merely expressing an honest opinion or criticism allowed under the Penal Code under Section 116 and under the 2007 Constitution.

[ldiablo]

I could be mistaken but didn't the authoritarian government previously state that civilians would not be tried in military court. Again I stress that I could be mistaken.

[tbthailand]

my guess is that the only people worried about the situation getting out of control are the military and their fans...

[tbthailand]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

"They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law."

So did Suthep and his minions. The military didn't want to get involved in law enforcement then.

You may have missed the fact that the military were not in charge at that time. If the current government of that time had wanted to do something legally about they could and should have done. That they didn't was up to them.

so it becomes obvious that you were not in Thailand from Nov 2013 to May 2014.

[tbthailand]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

"They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law."

They deliberately expressed an opinion but did not break THE LAW.

The so-called law you refer to is solely a NCPO issued directive.

Under the NCPO's self-created Interim Charter all directives issued by the NCPO have the authority of law. The NCPO exists because of the military's overthrow of the government and constitution that was in itself a criminal act under Penal Code Chapter 2, Sections 113-114 and under the 2007 Constitution under Article 68.

Any "rule of law" resulting from NCPO directives violates Thai people's sovereignty and therefore, has no standing as being legal.

The students did not violate any part of the Organic Penal Code as they were merely expressing an honest opinion or criticism allowed under the Penal Code under Section 116 and under the 2007 Constitution.

in addition to the fact that this "law" is nothing more than a directive from the junta, people around here completely miss the fact that the "law" broken by the students violates the human rights of every person in Thailand.

[heybruce]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

"They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law."

So did Suthep and his minions. The military didn't want to get involved in law enforcement then.

You may have missed the fact that the military were not in charge at that time. If the current government of that time had wanted to do something legally about they could and should have done. That they didn't was up to them.

It's debatable that the military wasn't in charge at that or any other time in Thailand.

The government tried to do something about the illegal protests and election obstruction but the police were overwhelmed. The military could have assisted, but Prayut didn't want to get involved, at least not until after the courts declined to remove the PTP government, Suthep's protests were faltering and there was a real threat of a successful election.

So, Suthep broke the law with violent protests and election obstruction and is walking around free. Some students stage a brief peaceful protest and are in jail. How do you feel about that?

[heybruce]

I could be mistaken but didn't the authoritarian government previously state that civilians would not be tried in military court. Again I stress that I could be mistaken.

The junta gave itself some big exceptions:

"Under Article 44, four types of cases can go to the Military Court - security offences, possession of war-grade weapons, violation of junta orders and violation of lese majeste law." http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Military-courts-to-allow-appeals-now-that-martial--30257643.html

[lildragon]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

"They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law."

So did Suthep and his minions. The military didn't want to get involved in law enforcement then.

You may have missed the fact that the military were not in charge at that time. If the current government of that time had wanted to do something legally about they could and should have done. That they didn't was up to them.

It's debatable that the military wasn't in charge at that or any other time in Thailand.

The government tried to do something about the illegal protests and election obstruction but the police were overwhelmed. The military could have assisted, but Prayut didn't want to get involved, at least not until after the courts declined to remove the PTP government, Suthep's protests were faltering and there was a real threat of a successful election.

So, Suthep broke the law with violent protests and election obstruction and is walking around free. Some students stage a brief peaceful protest and are in jail. How do you feel about that?

Keeping the immense double standards of the junta fans firmly in check there bruce. Keep it up!

[billd766]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

Was there a trail over conducting a coup before the Army granted themselves an amnesty? And have adjusted the constitution to continually allow them to blatantly show the same contempt for the law as these students?

The biggest problem with Thaialnd is the military constantly interfering and breaking laws and constitutions themselves. One day they too should be held accountable for their own misdemeanours ?

Quite. It is easy to quote 'Ah well, the law is the law, unfortunately', but sometimes the law isn't the law depending on who you are...

But there are ALWAYS people who don't agree with some law or another.

Should people be allowed to pick and choose which laws they will obey and which laws they won't? That would lead to chaos and possibly anarchy.

Better that everybody accepts the law and try to change it later. That way there should be no double standards on any side.

[billd766]

Quote "The students insisted they would not seek bail, leading to growing anger and calls for the government to release them unconditionally."

The students seem to be a bit hard line. They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law. They may well be entitled to bail but it seems to read in the OP that THEY don't want to accept bail. They prefer to be martyrs. Up to them.

Quote "Meanwhile, Prayut rejected a suggestion for him to use his extensive power under the post-coup interim constitution to grant amnesty to the 14 arrested student activists."

AFAIK an amnesty can only be granted after a trial, a guilty verdict and a period of time serving the sentence. Also that the person concerned has genuinely repented. I may be wrong and if I am I apologise but that is what I understand.

"They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law."

So did Suthep and his minions. The military didn't want to get involved in law enforcement then.

You may have missed the fact that the military were not in charge at that time. If the current government of that time had wanted to do something legally about they could and should have done. That they didn't was up to them.

so it becomes obvious that you were not in Thailand from Nov 2013 to May 2014.

Really? You have no idea who I am or where I live but just FYI I came back home to Thailand from New Zealand where I was working 3 days after my 65th birthday in 2009 and I have not left Thailand since.

So, obviously (your word) you are totally incorrect once again.

[tbthailand]

"They deliberately broke the law, (it doesn't matter if they don't agree with that law or not) it is still the law."

So did Suthep and his minions. The military didn't want to get involved in law enforcement then.

You may have missed the fact that the military were not in charge at that time. If the current government of that time had wanted to do something legally about they could and should have done. That they didn't was up to them.

so it becomes obvious that you were not in Thailand from Nov 2013 to May 2014.

Really? You have no idea who I am or where I live but just FYI I came back home to Thailand from New Zealand where I was working 3 days after my 65th birthday in 2009 and I have not left Thailand since.

So, obviously (your word) you are totally incorrect once again.

oh, then please excuse me because it is hard to imagine anyone making such an incredibly uninformed comment about 2013 and 14 if they had been in the country at the time...