Koh Tao: Men accused of killing Brit backpackers plead with victims' families for justice

[stephenterry]

jdinasia post 292. PBS did a full hour show on the video. With actual experts. The video covered the time of the murders until he departed for the test.

The university confirmed his presence in class for the test.

Why keep trotting out lies and conspiracy theories that have been debunked.

Well, to start with, he's not in the dock, so whether this holds water or not, it's not possible for lawyers to substantiate it. As I didn't see any video broadcast, I cannot comment on the content, as I cannot comment on whether the university confirmed his presence or not. I would suggest no-one on here could do so either.

I also haven't heard dozens of his classmates rushing to confirm his presence at the test, either, or anyone (apart from one false alibi that was exposed) in BKK who could support his assertions. As I stated above, his behaviour was suspicious, and he had easier ways to prove where he was.

However, if he was in the dock, I'd be open-minded enough to see if the defence could validate his whereabouts. I've no problem with that, in principle. But I do find a few posters, yourself included, who are not open-minded enough to give the same consideration to the B2.

You don't get to put people in the dock based on Internet conspiracy theories.

I'll certainly give the 2 Burmese defendants the opportunity to be heard.

BTW - the link to the full PBS video has been in these threads. You commented.

The reports from the University have been in the threads as well

I've only commented on the reenactment video. Or do you mean the CCTV stills? And I don't think I would have added anything material because I'm no technical expert (or amateur). I've never seen an hour long video on PBS, and never read any of their articles, either - sorry, you've mixed me up with another poster.

Not CCTV stills. PBS did the whole video from the time of the murders until he departed for the test.

I'm sorry, I haven't a clue what you're on about, and maybe some other poster could comment on the content. I'm not really interested in Nomsod right now, apart from agreeing that he could have made life easier for himself in proving his whereabouts.

You'll have to forgive me for not debating this further, I'm very much focused on this trial.

[jdinasia]

The idea that he anyone needs to prove something to the public is simply silly.

Named (indirectly ) a suspect, he cleared his name a couple of days later.

[bamukloy]

The families of the victims have already made a public statement.

One member of one of the two families has made a statement.

I am assuming that when the bodies were repatriated back to the UK a second autopsy was carried out.

What may be interesting is the work of the forensic investigators back here in the UK, in particular if any DNA was found and was it the same as the Thai authorities, or if no traces of DNA were found, and their opinion as to whether it was removed to prevent the British investigators obtaining evidence, or if DNA was found could it have been planted?

It is not for the British to interfere at this time, cooperating with both prosecution and defence with evidence, yes, but any statements at this time would prejudice a fair trial, only after the conclusion of the trial could the British question the fairness or state that they believe any of the evidence to be unsound, or they believe The Thais got the wrong people.

It's ironic that, the reason the Brit Coroner is publishing nothing, is because the B2 are facing the death penalty - though BY WITHHOLDING DATA, the Brits are unwittingly contributing to the likelihood the defendents will get executed.

Thats assuming any evidence is favourable to the Burmese guys. It could go both ways.

Their silence might also mean they found evidence against the B2, which is in line with them having the policy of not being involved in a case where the death penalty applies.

[JLCrab]

I have no idea whether those on trial are guilty or not. But every time Andy Hall writes about visiting the 2 held in custody and looking into their seemingly innocent looking faces, I think to myself that the conversation in Burmese could be:

Here comes that Andy guy again. Time to put on our seemingly innocent looking faces for him

Yeah, they're great actors. Put on a splendid re-enactment, pretending they didn't know what happened.

But here's another conspiracy theory. No doubt their feet have grown several centimetres to match the footprints discovered at the murder scene, or did they fly in and out like superman? Strange there hasn't been any RTP reports to confirm that.

From the above: Yeah, they're great actors. They just might be

[AleG]

No, they are false because what you say does not match with reality; it's you who is deep in denial, repeating demonstrably false claims like a mantra to shield yourself from a reality that doesn't support your beliefs and to try to pass yourself as some sort of authority on the matter.

I'm 'shielding myself from a reality' That's rich. You can't refute the well-considered scenarios I put forth, so you devolve to school yard reactions, like; No, that can't be true! Don't so be cruel to Nomsod, he's a nice handsome boy. Boomerangutang, you're telling lies because you're shielding yourself from reality.

Right, and I've put in an application to be the next Pope. Look for the puff of white smoke from the side chimney.

Your "well considered scenarios" are nothing but fantasies founded on your own prejudices, such as ""All during that time, there was pressure from Bkk and TAT to nail some suspects, but make sure it wasn't anyone related to the Headman. "

Why don't you try to address the facts that I have presented instead? You Won't because you can't.

[sambum]

In reply to GOLDBUGGY Post #280:-

As I mentioned, I have pointed these blunders out right from the start, which was back in September last year. I have not changed my mind on that.

I am also an Engineer who has had a very successful career working overseas in the Oil & Gas Industry. I don't need to know how to spell perfectly, nor do I need to know perfect grammar. You much lower paid English Teachers need to know that stuff.

I think that I have made my point - that you are starting to see that this is yet another case where the RTP have not performed as they should have done, and are now trying their level best to justify their actions, whether in the name of justice or not.

I think I have also made my point in showing that you are a bit of a snob - exactly the type of person that I came here (Thailand) to get away from. A "My house is bigger than your house and my car is a more expensive car than yours is" type of person - don't you just HATE poor people? What right have you got to belittle English Teachers, or anyone else for that matter? As a matter of fact, I am not, or ever was an English teacher, but that is no concern of yours, and I don't give a hoot whether you were an Engineer or a Barrister, as that is no concern of mine. What I am concerned about is possible miscarriages of justice, and I think that we are sitting right on top of one in this case.

Anyway, as I have already said, I have made my point, and I do realise that English is not always the native language of every poster on TV, but most people would acknowledge when they had made an error - either in your judgement or in your choice of words, but not you, which was basically the reason for the little "English lesson".

I hope that the "Murderers and Rapists" that you talk about are proved innocent, and that you would have the decency to make an apology, to them, and to the people on here that you have belittled over the last few months. I expect that you will have some smart comeback reply for me, as you always have to have the last word,but as far as I am concerned, as I have stated before, I feel like I am and you will hear no more from me on this thread as the subject is now

[sambum]

I have no idea whether those on trial are guilty or not. But every time Andy Hall writes about visiting the 2 held in custody and looking into their seemingly innocent looking faces, I think to myself that the conversation in Burmese could be:

Here comes that Andy guy again. Time to put on our seemingly innocent looking faces for him

Yeah, they're great actors. Put on a splendid re-enactment, pretending they didn't know what happened.

But here's another conspiracy theory. No doubt their feet have grown several centimetres to match the footprints discovered at the murder scene, or did they fly in and out like superman? Strange there hasn't been any RTP reports to confirm that.

From the above: Yeah, they're great actors. They just might be

Selective comment on a post again. No comment regarding the size of the footprints?

[AleG]

Selective comment on a post again. No comment regarding the size of the footprints?

The police statement regarding the footprints is that they belonged to someone being no more than 170cm tall:

"Footprints were found in a vegetable garden nearby. The footprints indicated that the suspects were no more than 170 cm tall."

Both suspects are less than 170cm tall.

[sambum]

Selective comment on a post again. No comment regarding the size of the footprints?

The police statement regarding the footprints is that they belonged to someone being no more than 170cm tall:

"Footprints were found in a vegetable garden nearby. The footprints indicated that the suspects were no more than 170 cm tall."

Both suspects are less than 170cm tall.

Perhaps the footprints in the vegetable garden nearby belonged to the person who was growing vegetables in the vegetable garden nearby! Doh!

[thailandchilli]

Selective comment on a post again. No comment regarding the size of the footprints?

The police statement regarding the footprints is that they belonged to someone being no more than 170cm tall:

"Footprints were found in a vegetable garden nearby. The footprints indicated that the suspects were no more than 170 cm tall."

Both suspects are less than 170cm tall.

Both 'current' suspects are indeed below 170cm tall, way below! Infact the Thai population as a whole the average height is only 167.5cm and for Burmese even shorter so not sure what relevance that has on anything.

But regardless how on earth did they pick one set of footprints and decide these were the ones? Bearing in mind the crime scene was invaded by countless people before it was cordoned off and the hoe was handled multiple times before Thai forensics got hold of it.

The chaos ensued for days after the murders with tourists and locals taking seflie's at the crime scene, intermingling with the RTP and divers looking for a second weapon, besides women being swabbed and having their footprints taken utter shambles and complete cock up.

[StealthEnergiser]

Burmese men to face trial for murder of British backpackers in Thailand

Defence lawyers say important evidence has recently been provided by UK over death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on Koh Tao

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/07/burmese-men-trial-murder-thailand-british-backpackers-hannah-witheridge-david-miller?CMP=share_btn_tw

[boomerangutang]

Nomsod's DNA sample-taking was a full fledged media event. His daddy, his lawyer, the protective police and their grinning top cop were all there. Any fool knew the outcome before it was announced. Interestingly, Nomsod never says anything publicly. When he appeared, after hiding, with his lawyer and later at the media event. Has he ever once stepped forward and said something like, "I didn't do it, and I sincerely hope the real perpetrators of this heinous crime are rounded up and brought to trial. If found guilty, they should get the full force of punishment." ? No, he lurks, almost smirking, in the shadow of his high-paid lawyer, his daddy, and police brass. He's got the backbone of a jellyfish, except perhaps in the early morning of Sept 15...... (the continuation of this sentence has been self-censored, because it would send up red flags among posters who shamelessly shield the H's people, and would probably get me suspended).

As for "Nomsod was not hiding! His Father just didn't know where his adult son was....." Gimme a break. The kid's not 6 years old. Everyone in Thailand knew he was being searched for by police FOR DAYS.

Of course it was a media event. By that time rumors had surfaced that he was involved in the murders, spread by people like you using his father position of Head Man of the Village, which you call mafia, as a cover-up. So even though he was cleared by the Police by then, as he had a solid clad Alibi, he wanted everyone to know he was innocent and willing to take a DNA Test, which he did and it proved Negative.

"Any Fool knew the outcome (his DNA Test) before it was announced.", you say? Until I showed you yesterday, you didn't even know he had a DNA Test done. Do you want me to go back to you past posts and prove that to you? So what does that make you then? Especially when you say you knew the outcome of this DNA Test even when you did know the test was done until several months later.

The only ones who knew the outcome of his DNA Test was him, and his family, because they knew he was innocent. Nomsod (his Nickname) did speak out and say all the things you said he didn't say. And for the Umpteenth time, he wasn't hiding. He was in Bangkok attending University. They have Time Caption CCTV Footage of him at his residence on September 14, and 15th. The date before and day of the rape and murders. They also have documented proof that early on the 15th he wrote an exam at the University. This is why the Police cleared him of any wrong doing without a DNA Sample yet..

<snip>

Sorry GB, you're dead wrong on both accounts. I knew it was an orchestrated media event before it even happened, because they announced it prior. I also knew beforehand it would show a no-match with the DNA. Everyone watching that dumb show should have known the results would be a no-match. You think that NS, his lawyer, his daddy, the chief of Police would all be in that room, with cameras zooming in - if there was a chance it would show a match? Put on your thinking cap.

And please don't try to tell me I think things that I don't think. It's tiresome to have to set you straight so often.

Not CCTV stills. PBS did the whole video from the time of the murders until he departed for the test.

I saw the PBS video. Near the end they showed the only footage of the time before the few seconds we've all seen of NS walking out the door across the lobby. That footage was super-speeded and had giant gaps. They crammed about 2 hours in to 4 seconds, and omitted showing the most pertinent part of the CCTV, which is the hour before the footage we see NS walking from right to left with no books or papers or pack or briefcase. BTW, whenever I went to class, I always had at least a paper notebook. Those of us seeking truth and justice want to see evidence of NS entered that building (or maybe there's a side entrance?) - prior to the time he's purportedly shown leaving. We also want to know who exactly was on the Nok Air flight from Chumpon to Bkk on Monday morning, Sept. 15. If he's innocent, we want to have better proof than a questionable few seconds of CCTV. Even if that CCTV is true, then that doesn't preclude the fact that a deperate and rich young man could get from the island to the U in well under the time between from when the crime ended 5 am ....to the time of the video: 9:30.

If there weren't other evidence pointing at NS, such as the several 'Running Man' videos which even the police thought was him, and the assumption by many of the KT islanders that it's him, and the mentions by most of his fellow U students saying it's him, and all the crazy cover-up type things that Mon and the RTP have done ......then I'd gladly leave NS alone. It's just that there's lots of data pointing at him, and the alibi that worked for his cop friends isn't working for me and hundreds of thousands of others who want truth to prevail.

[berybert]

Well it looks like the Brits might at last becoming forward. Maybe they left it as late as they have so as not to give the prosecution any chance to act on what they have found.

I always found it hard to believe the Brits would let 2 innocents die so as to save a few money deals with Thailand, no least because they wouldn't lose the deals anyway.

I expect the Brits will blow the Thai bullshit case out of the water with some startling information proving the Burmese played no point in the murder what-so-ever.

Maybe there has been a conspiracy theory all along. This being the parents being told to go along with the FCO and say they were happy with the way the case was moving, Leaving the Thai authorities no chance to add more bullshit to their already flimsy case.

I was a proud Brit when our boys went over there and was a bit baffled by the lack of information coming thru. Even if it was only hearsay.

Now if as looks likely our boys are going to give the RTP a bloody nose and show them up for what they are.

Leave policing to those that know how to do it.

[JLCrab]

I have no idea whether those on trial are guilty or not. But every time Andy Hall writes about visiting the 2 held in custody and looking into their seemingly innocent looking faces, I think to myself that the conversation in Burmese could be:

Here comes that Andy guy again. Time to put on our seemingly innocent looking faces for him

Yeah, they're great actors. Put on a splendid re-enactment, pretending they didn't know what happened.

But here's another conspiracy theory. No doubt their feet have grown several centimetres to match the footprints discovered at the murder scene, or did they fly in and out like superman? Strange there hasn't been any RTP reports to confirm that.

From the above: Yeah, they're great actors. They just might be

Selective comment on a post again. No comment regarding the size of the footprints?

No -- my only comment was to Andy Hall's writing several times that the 2 in custody displayed innocent looking faces.

[boomerangutang]

The families of the victims have already made a public statement.

One member of one of the two families has made a statement.

I am assuming that when the bodies were repatriated back to the UK a second autopsy was carried out.

What may be interesting is the work of the forensic investigators back here in the UK, in particular if any DNA was found and was it the same as the Thai authorities, or if no traces of DNA were found, and their opinion as to whether it was removed to prevent the British investigators obtaining evidence, or if DNA was found could it have been planted?

It is not for the British to interfere at this time, cooperating with both prosecution and defence with evidence, yes, but any statements at this time would prejudice a fair trial, only after the conclusion of the trial could the British question the fairness or state that they believe any of the evidence to be unsound, or they believe The Thais got the wrong people.

It's ironic that, the reason the Brit Coroner is publishing nothing, is because the B2 are facing the death penalty - though BY WITHHOLDING DATA, the Brits are unwittingly contributing to the likelihood the defendents will get executed.

Thats assuming any evidence is favourable to the Burmese guys. It could go both ways.

Their silence might also mean they found evidence against the B2, which is in line with them having the policy of not being involved in a case where the death penalty applies.

British officials should do their jobs. If a coroner's job is to determine weapons used,

and to type DNA found on bodies (aomng other job descriptions), then that's what they should do.

And, because they work for and get paid by the public, they should publish their findings.

They should not subjectively mete out findings based on whether there's a death penalty issue.

In this case, Brit experts withholding data is more likely to CONTRIBUTE TO EXECUTIONS

than it is to avoid them.

[boomerangutang]

Among the many indications of cover-up by Thai authorities - particularly top police brass,

is the top cop's announcement, right after NS's DNA was shown not to match - that Thai cops

would not share the DNA typing with Brit officials. Reason given: "The British already know

we're doing a great job, so they don't need to see Nomsod's DNA."

So, demoting Brit officials to 'observer status only' is not belittling enough, ...Thai officials

add withholding data to the mix.

Let me guess, Thai officials aren't going to share other DNA data with Brits: Stingray Man,

Mon's cop buddy who threatened Sean with murder, Mon himself, one or two bodyguard tough guys

who hang out at the beach party bars late at night, .....and who else who may be a 'person of

interest'?

Actually, it may be a moot point, because the Brit coroner is only supposed to determine data,

they're not supposed to connect any dots - because that would appear to be investigating. And they

wouldn't want to rock the diplomatic ships of state by determining some others' DNA matched

the DNA found in/on Hannah, would they?

That would be a giant faux pas as it would embarass Thai officialdom all the way up to the PM.

It's better to have an inconclusive investigation than to embarrass Thai officials. Oh and the small

matter of death penalties for two young poor, lowest-rung-of-social-ladder migrants being scapegoats...

well, that's unfortunate, but hey, there are priorities.

[AleG]

Selective comment on a post again. No comment regarding the size of the footprints?

The police statement regarding the footprints is that they belonged to someone being no more than 170cm tall:

"Footprints were found in a vegetable garden nearby. The footprints indicated that the suspects were no more than 170 cm tall."

Both suspects are less than 170cm tall.

Both 'current' suspects are indeed below 170cm tall, way below! Infact the Thai population as a whole the average height is only 167.5cm and for Burmese even shorter so not sure what relevance that has on anything.

But regardless how on earth did they pick one set of footprints and decide these were the ones? Bearing in mind the crime scene was invaded by countless people before it was cordoned off and the hoe was handled multiple times before Thai forensics got hold of it.

The chaos ensued for days after the murders with tourists and locals taking seflie's at the crime scene, intermingling with the RTP and divers looking for a second weapon, besides women being swabbed and having their footprints taken utter shambles and complete cock up.

The relevance of that is that stephenterry was implying that, according to the size of the footprints, it couldn't had been from the men on trial.

As for the crime scene and what could be gathered from it, the difference between real investigators and armchair detectives is that the real ones, besides being qualified for the job, have access to the real crime scene to evaluate what can be learned from it; while the armchair detectives satisfy themselves with speculation and guesses, usually geared towards reaching a pre-conceived conclusion.

[AleG]

Among the many indications of cover-up by Thai authorities - particularly top police brass,

is the top cop's announcement, right after NS's DNA was shown not to match - that Thai cops

would not share the DNA typing with Brit officials. Reason given: "The British already know

we're doing a great job, so they don't need to see Nomsod's DNA."

So, demoting Brit officials to 'observer status only' is not belittling enough, ...Thai officials

add withholding data to the mix.

Let me guess, Thai officials aren't going to share other DNA data with Brits: Stingray Man,

Mon's cop buddy who threatened Sean with murder, Mon himself, one or two bodyguard tough guys

who hang out at the beach party bars late at night, .....and who else who may be a 'person of

interest'?

Actually, it may be a moot point, because the Brit coroner is only supposed to determine data,

they're not supposed to connect any dots - because that would appear to be investigating. And they

wouldn't want to rock the diplomatic ships of state by determining some others' DNA matched

the DNA found in/on Hannah, would they?

That would be a giant faux pas as it would embarass Thai officialdom all the way up to the PM.

It's better to have an inconclusive investigation than to embarrass Thai officials. Oh and the small

matter of death penalties for two young poor, lowest-rung-of-social-ladder migrants being scapegoats...

well, that's unfortunate, but hey, there are priorities.

They will not provide DNA data for people that are not considered involved on the crime.

The real world doesn't work according to your necessity of persecuting people you don't like for whatever personal reasons you may have.

[thailandchilli]

Selective comment on a post again. No comment regarding the size of the footprints?

The police statement regarding the footprints is that they belonged to someone being no more than 170cm tall:

"Footprints were found in a vegetable garden nearby. The footprints indicated that the suspects were no more than 170 cm tall."

Both suspects are less than 170cm tall.

Both 'current' suspects are indeed below 170cm tall, way below! Infact the Thai population as a whole the average height is only 167.5cm and for Burmese even shorter so not sure what relevance that has on anything.

But regardless how on earth did they pick one set of footprints and decide these were the ones? Bearing in mind the crime scene was invaded by countless people before it was cordoned off and the hoe was handled multiple times before Thai forensics got hold of it.

The chaos ensued for days after the murders with tourists and locals taking seflie's at the crime scene, intermingling with the RTP and divers looking for a second weapon, besides women being swabbed and having their footprints taken utter shambles and complete cock up.

The relevance of that is that stephenterry was implying that, according to the size of the footprints, it couldn't had been from the men on trial.

As for the crime scene and what could be gathered from it, the difference between real investigators and armchair detectives is that the real ones, besides being qualified for the job, have access to the real crime scene to evaluate what can be learned from it; while the armchair detectives satisfy themselves with speculation and guesses, usually geared towards reaching a pre-conceived conclusion.

Armchair detectives, people making genuine comments on the scene as they saw it, ie the international media that was there witnessing the chaos. I doubt the international media will be worried about your opinion as much as I am.

[sartoric]

Selective comment on a post again. No comment regarding the size of the footprints?

The police statement regarding the footprints is that they belonged to someone being no more than 170cm tall:

"Footprints were found in a vegetable garden nearby. The footprints indicated that the suspects were no more than 170 cm tall."

Both suspects are less than 170cm tall.

Both 'current' suspects are indeed below 170cm tall, way below! Infact the Thai population as a whole the average height is only 167.5cm and for Burmese even shorter so not sure what relevance that has on anything.

But regardless how on earth did they pick one set of footprints and decide these were the ones? Bearing in mind the crime scene was invaded by countless people before it was cordoned off and the hoe was handled multiple times before Thai forensics got hold of it.

The chaos ensued for days after the murders with tourists and locals taking seflie's at the crime scene, intermingling with the RTP and divers looking for a second weapon, besides women being swabbed and having their footprints taken utter shambles and complete cock up.

The relevance of that is that stephenterry was implying that, according to the size of the footprints, it couldn't had been from the men on trial.

As for the crime scene and what could be gathered from it, the difference between real investigators and armchair detectives is that the real ones, besides being qualified for the job, have access to the real crime scene to evaluate what can be learned from it; while the armchair detectives satisfy themselves with speculation and guesses, usually geared towards reaching a pre-conceived conclusion.

So the "qualified investigators" allowed the non qualified to trample the crime scene. Qualifications lacking I think.

[AleG]

The relevance of that is that stephenterry was implying that, according to the size of the footprints, it couldn't had been from the men on trial.

As for the crime scene and what could be gathered from it, the difference between real investigators and armchair detectives is that the real ones, besides being qualified for the job, have access to the real crime scene to evaluate what can be learned from it; while the armchair detectives satisfy themselves with speculation and guesses, usually geared towards reaching a pre-conceived conclusion.

So the "qualified investigators" allowed the non qualified to trample the crime scene. Qualifications lacking I think.

That happened before the investigation team arrived from Surat Thani.

[sartoric]

The relevance of that is that stephenterry was implying that, according to the size of the footprints, it couldn't had been from the men on trial.

As for the crime scene and what could be gathered from it, the difference between real investigators and armchair detectives is that the real ones, besides being qualified for the job, have access to the real crime scene to evaluate what can be learned from it; while the armchair detectives satisfy themselves with speculation and guesses, usually geared towards reaching a pre-conceived conclusion.

So the "qualified investigators" allowed the non qualified to trample the crime scene. Qualifications lacking I think.

That happened before the investigation team arrived from Surat Thani.

Maybe, but by then it was too late, the scene had been compromised.

[AleG]

The relevance of that is that stephenterry was implying that, according to the size of the footprints, it couldn't had been from the men on trial.

As for the crime scene and what could be gathered from it, the difference between real investigators and armchair detectives is that the real ones, besides being qualified for the job, have access to the real crime scene to evaluate what can be learned from it; while the armchair detectives satisfy themselves with speculation and guesses, usually geared towards reaching a pre-conceived conclusion.

Armchair detectives, people making genuine comments on the scene as they saw it, ie the international media that was there witnessing the chaos. I doubt the international media will be worried about your opinion as much as I am.

You saw the crime scene when it was being examined? Really?

What international media was there when that happened?

Your genuine opinion is speculation based on ignorance, you don't know how or why the footprints were deemed relevant, you just assume the people investigating the crime scene wouldn't know either.

[thailandchilli]

The relevance of that is that stephenterry was implying that, according to the size of the footprints, it couldn't had been from the men on trial.

As for the crime scene and what could be gathered from it, the difference between real investigators and armchair detectives is that the real ones, besides being qualified for the job, have access to the real crime scene to evaluate what can be learned from it; while the armchair detectives satisfy themselves with speculation and guesses, usually geared towards reaching a pre-conceived conclusion.

Armchair detectives, people making genuine comments on the scene as they saw it, ie the international media that was there witnessing the chaos. I doubt the international media will be worried about your opinion as much as I am.

You saw the crime scene when it was being examined? Really?

What international media was there when that happened?

Your genuine opinion is speculation based on ignorance, you don't know how or why the footprints were deemed relevant, you just assume the people investigating the crime scene wouldn't know either.

My "genuine opinion is speculation based on ignorance" really, no please read my post again, my opinion is based on the reports of those who were there, so I tend to listen to those rather than your persistent speculation and attempts to join dots to implicate the B2 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murder-police-reach-4290544

"Thailand beach murder police reach new low as officers allow public to take selfies at scene"

As for my assumption, please note the question mark: "But regardless how on earth did they pick one set of footprints and decide these were the ones?"

But I'm signing off now, as I'll be focused today on listening to further reports from people who are actually at the trial today.

Have a good day

[AleG]

Armchair detectives, people making genuine comments on the scene as they saw it, ie the international media that was there witnessing the chaos. I doubt the international media will be worried about your opinion as much as I am.

You saw the crime scene when it was being examined? Really?

What international media was there when that happened?

Your genuine opinion is speculation based on ignorance, you don't know how or why the footprints were deemed relevant, you just assume the people investigating the crime scene wouldn't know either.

My "genuine opinion is speculation based on ignorance" really, no please read my post again, my opinion is based on the reports of those who were there, so I tend to listen to those rather than your persistent speculation and attempts to join dots to implicate the B2 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murder-police-reach-4290544

"Thailand beach murder police reach new low as officers allow public to take selfies at scene"

But I'm signing off now, as I'll be focused today on listening to further reports from people who are actually at the trial today.

Have a good day

The article you linked at is from the 19th of September, four days after the murders and the crime scene investigation.

The discussion was about the footprints on the crime scene found on the day of the murders and what the investigation team determined from the examination then and there, as usual you obfuscate your way out of what you've said; which is note worthy coming from someone who talks constantly of how much he values transparency.

Finally, pray tell, what was I speculating about?

[stephenterry]

Selective comment on a post again. No comment regarding the size of the footprints?

The police statement regarding the footprints is that they belonged to someone being no more than 170cm tall:

"Footprints were found in a vegetable garden nearby. The footprints indicated that the suspects were no more than 170 cm tall."

Both suspects are less than 170cm tall.

Both 'current' suspects are indeed below 170cm tall, way below! Infact the Thai population as a whole the average height is only 167.5cm and for Burmese even shorter so not sure what relevance that has on anything.

But regardless how on earth did they pick one set of footprints and decide these were the ones? Bearing in mind the crime scene was invaded by countless people before it was cordoned off and the hoe was handled multiple times before Thai forensics got hold of it.

The chaos ensued for days after the murders with tourists and locals taking seflie's at the crime scene, intermingling with the RTP and divers looking for a second weapon, besides women being swabbed and having their footprints taken utter shambles and complete cock up.

The relevance of that is that stephenterry was implying that, according to the size of the footprints, it couldn't had been from the men on trial.

As for the crime scene and what could be gathered from it, the difference between real investigators and armchair detectives is that the real ones, besides being qualified for the job, have access to the real crime scene to evaluate what can be learned from it; while the armchair detectives satisfy themselves with speculation and guesses, usually geared towards reaching a pre-conceived conclusion.

Sorry, I wasn't implying that. I haven't read any RTP report that LINKS and MATCHES the B2 footprints to ANY of the footprints discovered at the crime scene, albeit the nearby vegetable garden ones, that were stated to be those of the suspects being under 170cm tall. BTW one of the B2 (at 4'10") is only 147.32, which is not anywhere near 170.

Hence my superman flying in and out comment. I'm sure you would "hope" the prosecution has this evidence contained in their 900+ page investigation, because it would be pretty difficult to explain why the B2 footprints weren't among any of the others found at the crime scene.

[jdinasia]

The story from the AP

http://bigstory.ap.org/urn:publicid:ap.org:eab0f9d26be242048e4dae7a83a9334e

Sky News - with family statements

http://news.sky.com/story/1515031/backpacker-murders-thailand-trial-to-begin

Reuters http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0PI03L20150708?irpc=932

[thailandchilli]

Koh Tao murder trial has begun in courtroom 6 of Koh Samui court. Accused Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo and relatives of the deceased are all present

https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

[JLCrab]

Koh Tao murder trial has begun in courtroom 6 of Koh Samui court. Accused Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo and relatives of the deceased are all present

https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

good -- so it looks like AndyH is allowed to send messages live from within the courtroom.

[thailandchilli]

Koh Tao murder trial has begun in courtroom 6 of Koh Samui court. Accused Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo and relatives of the deceased are all present

https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

good -- so it looks like AndyH is allowed to send messages live from within the courtroom.

yep, looks that way, lets hope they let him carry on, he's still sending so it looking good