Koh Tao: Men accused of killing Brit backpackers plead with victims' families for justice

[IslandLover]

The information came from here. But there are other sources as I have seen this in a few places. You just need to learn how to look for yourself.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

The Mirror article makes no mention of Hannah's shirt or blood evidence. I'll ask again: where did you find/hear that? ...or is it yet another of GOLDBUGGY'S fabrications? - in order to cement the framing of the B2. P.S. RTP love folks like you, for backing their frame-up scenarios.

He implied that there was blood on the t-shirt of one of the B2 which turned out to be Hannah's (so where has this been reported??). No doubt it's a fabrication like everything else he comes out with.

[PS2]

Hey! Let the Defense run their own DNA Testing from a credible source. I am all for that. I never said at any time I was against them getting a fare trial. But I am against throwing out a Murder Trail, and letting 2 murderers go free, based on your feelings it is not up to UK Standards, or there DNA Testing Procedures. It was good enough to match 2 accused out of some 300 or more DNA Samples they took. For me that is good enough.

You do know that they were cleared when they checked 300 or more Burmese workers.

They volunteered to give their DNA which was a non-Match.

After their arrest and police interrogation in a "safe house" they checked once more, this time it matched....

[boomerangutang]

The post #183 above, is a good graphic. It's the sort of display which drives the RTP-echoers nuts, and is the reason they hate social media. Well, let me clarify that: they hate social media when it shows how wrong they and the RTP are (like when RTP were proved wrong about claiming to have found Hannah's phone at the B's place), But they love social media when it backs their assumptions. Come to think of it, when has social media or photos backed the establishments' scenario?

Perhaps it was when NS got his DNA tested and compared to DNA found on Hannah. Or the reenactment (with two bewildered/scared young men being physically manipulated by RTP, sometimes two per scapegoat, one on each side, moving legs and arms ). I rest my case - for now.

[GOLDBUGGY]

So you would rather take the word of a Taxi Driver who may have been pissed off because he got a traffic ticket that day over the entire Thai Police Force, and up to Generals? That Figures!

I'll try to make it simple for you: It would only take one or two top brass to alter the entire direction of the investigation. Every single aurhority under them, down to the meter maid, would have no choice than to believe their superior officers.

If you want to call that a conspiracy, that's your choice. Either way, the thousands of lower ranked authorities are not involved directly with a conspiracy, unless they know their top brass are lying (and don't speak out about it). How likely is it for a lower ranked person to speak out against their bosses? Never happens in Thailand.

On a side note: We don't even know if the Burmese stole the mobile phone and sunglasses. They admitted to doing that under torture. Well, you or I would admit to being 3-legged frogs if enough torture was exerted.

Sure, I can see My Prime Minister of Canada sitting down with the Head Honcho of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and say "Hey Hank" "Lets Frame a couple of poor Immigrants for that Rape and Murder that took place in Toronto last week." "Or the President of the United States doing the same with the Secretary of State. Sure it is possible but do you know how crazy that sounds?

But this is exactly what you all try to say when involving the present Leader of this country and his top Generals, and expect everyone to buy that. Like this is the only murder and rape that has taken place in Thailand this year so the Police have nothing better to do with there time and money then frame a couple of Innocent Migrant Workers.

I don't doubt for a moment that Burmese Migrant workers are't treated the same as Thai's and consider themselves as Second Class Citizens here. Hell! I feel the same about that myself. There is also probably not too many people living here for any length of time that hasn't put a little money under the table for one thing or another. So What?

The Mobile Phone was found at the accused residence, so it had nothing to do with them being tortured. They claimed they found it on the beach that night, along with the sunglasses. Some confusion arose when the General was misinformed and told the press it was Hannah's Mobile Phone, when in fact it was Davids Millers they found.

Yes, I would admit to being a 3 legged frog, if I was under duress and pressured by the Police. But I would not confess to a murder I did not commit, where being found guilty means the death sentence. They did not look beaten or swollen when they appeared in front of the press for the reenactment. They could have had the Family Jewels taken away but I think we would have heard about that by now.

But in all fairness, if you want to start fresh without the Confession being allowed in Court then by all means. They did not have a Lawyer present at that time so that is good enough for me. Base the court verdict on evidence presented from both sides only. I don't think they need there confession anyway.

It is very true that the Judge will wait to decide on whether the DNA can best tested again and someplace else, and until the first day of the Trial. I don't know the reason behind this but I can guess. A Trail Court can set a Presidence for future court trials. So if this Judge allows the retesting of DNA, without just cause, then he can be opening the door for all convicted criminals to request the same. So I believe the Defense has to present just cause t do this, or it will be scrapped. Just MHO. . .

[MockingJay]

I can't get my head around the fact that after all this time, with all the compelling evidence that contradicts the official story, some posters still try to defend the corrupt RTP and blame the Burmese patsies. How can a sane person be that ignorant? Or is it because they have never followed the whole story right from the beginning, or are they shills working for TV?

A very good friend of mine has written much here about this case and followed the whole sharade from the very start. He'd say that it is useless to post here, because you have a majority of people who are clever enough to see the greater picture and understand what the true story is and on the other side are some stupid nut cakes who will always contradict whatever evidence you will throw at them. It is wasted energy trying to convince them otherwise, hence I refrain from posting anything more here regarding that story.

We - with our posts - will not achieve anything if not even the great person running CSI LA was able to change anything by putting his life on the line, even live on tv, trying to shed light on the truth. The massive amount of bribe money paid to the RTP by the mafia kingpin will assure that the Burmese patsies will hang after an unfair and premeditated trial that will have all of us truth seekers screaming and crying in agony, while the true culprits will run free and certainly rape and murder again on that cesspit of an island. It's a sick and shoddy world we live in - it sucks!

Just wish the TV member who has hammered up the complete time line in utter detail about this case. Perhaps Bommerangutan can shed some light on this, and thanks to him for his continued fight against the ignorant. I think the best method to shut them up is to completely ignore them.

Edited July 4, 2015 by MockingJay

[GOLDBUGGY]

Hey! Let the Defense run their own DNA Testing from a credible source. I am all for that. I never said at any time I was against them getting a fare trial. But I am against throwing out a Murder Trail, and letting 2 murderers go free, based on your feelings it is not up to UK Standards, or there DNA Testing Procedures. It was good enough to match 2 accused out of some 300 or more DNA Samples they took. For me that is good enough.

You do know that they were cleared when they checked 300 or more Burmese workers.

They volunteered to give their DNA which was a non-Match.

After their arrest and police interrogation in a "safe house" they checked once more, this time it matched....

dna.jpg

Well, that is not what happened. What happened was 6 Burmese Migrant Workers were brought in for questioning, including the 2 accused, and DNA Samples were taken then. Since they could not tie them to the murders yet, they let them all go.

It was only a few days after, when the DNA Test Results came back, and matched the 2 accused, that they were arrested on Immigration Charges, and held, while there house was being searched.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I can't get my head around the fact that after all this time, with all the compelling evidence that contradicts the official story, some posters still try to defend the corrupt RTP and blame the Burmese patsies. How can a sane person be that ignorant? Or is it because they have never followed the whole story right from the beginning, or are they shills working for TV?

A very good friend of mine has written much here about this case and followed the whole sharade from the very start. He'd say that it is useless to post here, because you have a majority of people who are clever enough to see the greater picture and understand what the true story is and on the other side are some stupid nut cakes who will always contradict whatever evidence you will throw at them. It is wasted energy trying to convince them otherwise, hence I refrain from posting anything more here regarding that story.

We - with our posts - will not achieve anything if not even the great person running CSI LA was able to change anything by putting his life on the line, even live on tv, trying to shed light on the truth. The massive amount of bribe money paid to the RTP by the mafia kingpin will assure that the Burmese patsies will hang after an unfair and premeditated trial that will have all of us truth seekers screaming and crying in agony, while the true culprits will run free and certainly rape and murder again on that cesspit of an island. It's a sick and shoddy world we live in - it sucks!

Just wish the TV member who has hammered up the complete time line in utter detail about this case. Perhaps Bommerangutan can shed some light on this, and thanks to him for his continued fight against the ignorant. I think the best method to shut them up is to completely ignore them.

Ignorance to me is defending Rapists and Murderers. Then calling them Kids, when the woman they Raped and Brutally Murdered was only one year older than them.

I hope your friend is one of the Judges at this trail because from all the evidence I have heard about, they sure are going to need him there. The truth needs to come out in Court, and I expect it will. So what is said on some Blog, has no important to this case. Get over it!

[boomerangutang]

Sure, I can see My Prime Minister of Canada sitting down with the Head Honcho of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and say "Hey Hank" "Lets Frame a couple of poor Immigrants for that Rape and Murder that took place in Toronto last week." "Or the President of the United States doing the same with the Secretary of State. Sure it is possible but do you know how crazy that sounds?

But this is exactly what you all try to say when involving the present Leader of this country and his top Generals, and expect everyone to buy that. Like this is the only murder and rape that has taken place in Thailand this year so the Police have nothing better to do with there time and money then frame a couple of Innocent Migrant Workers.

Would you believe that a US president drank hard liquor every night, and conspired like a madman against months-long accusations that he orchestrated an illegal break-in to steal items? Would you believe another US prez conspired with Iranian leaders to get the Iranians to pay for an illegal & hidden war in Nicaragua? All sorts of strange things happen within the dark corridors of power. Those are just two of hundreds of recent examples. Most important factor, in your dismissal of the possibility of wrong-doing at the top echelons of Thai power brokers, .....is this is happening in Thailand - where power plays can often be stranger than the shenanigans which go on in farang countries.

Yes, I would admit to being a 3 legged frog, if I was under duress and pressured by the Police. But I would not confess to a murder I did not commit, where being found guilty means the death sentence. They did not look beaten or swollen when they appeared in front of the press for the reenactment.

In such scenarios, the choices for scapegoats are:

1. admit to the charges, and avoid the death penalty

or

2. Don't admit, and you will be found guilty in court, and you will get the death penalty.

If they hadn't retracted, they would not be facing execution. Now that they've retracted, they do face death.

And, my friend, you would admit anything under the sun, even that you were guilty of a murder you didn't commit, if the torture was effectively administrated. Trust me, you would.

As for appearances: There are well known methods, some of them psychological, for forcing someone to tell lies - which don't show up on a body - particularly on a person with all their clothes on, and as viewed from several meters away.

[boomerangutang]

Hey! Let the Defense run their own DNA Testing from a credible source. I am all for that. I never said at any time I was against them getting a fare trial. But I am against throwing out a Murder Trail, and letting 2 murderers go free, based on your feelings it is not up to UK Standards, or there DNA Testing Procedures. It was good enough to match 2 accused out of some 300 or more DNA Samples they took. For me that is good enough.

You do know that they were cleared when they checked 300 or more Burmese workers.

They volunteered to give their DNA which was a non-Match.

After their arrest and police interrogation in a "safe house" they checked once more, this time it matched....

dna.jpg

Well, that is not what happened. What happened was 6 Burmese Migrant Workers were brought in for questioning, including the 2 accused, and DNA Samples were taken then. Since they could not tie them to the murders yet, they let them all go.

It was only a few days after, when the DNA Test Results came back, and matched the 2 accused, that they were arrested on Immigration Charges, and held, while there house was being searched.

Sorry GB, you're wrong and PS2 is right. There were two tranches of Burmese migrants on the island who were tested (meanwhile, Nomsod was hiding and insisting he could not be tested). All, I repeat ALL those migrants were cleared. The B2 were very likely in those groups of hundreds of migrants tested earlier - even those photos on the beach provide proof.

Yet, when the pressure from Bkk became so great - to implicate someone other than anyone connected to the Headman's family, then the scapegoats were rounded up - and (surprise!) RTP very quickly found their DNA matched. The same DNA trail which the judge is waffling about allowing the defense to get re-examined.

Not surprisingly, the investigation came to focus ONLY on Burmese migrants, around the time the hard-core police head put himself in charge, while the former head cop (who was earlier on the right trail) was quickly put in a do-nothing desk job in Bangkok.

If I were advising the defense team, I'd have them call the initial head cop, Panya, to the stand - and hope he's not afraid to tell the truth of what he really knows. Yet, knowing what I know from visiting and residing in Thailand for a third of a century, he will likely clam up. He knows what's important for self preservation.

[stephenterry]

You prove I'm wrong. Send me the link that the rtp sent anything to Singapore. You won't find it.

Read my post again and then yours.

I said that the Police said they were thinking of sending the DNA Samples to Singapore, but never confirmed after that if they did or did not. You said they did not, and for me to forget it.

Here is the Link

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/763494-special-report-investigation-into-koh-tao-murders-seriously-flawed/

But it really doesn't matter if they sent it or not as they don't need that to get a conviction in Thailand. Just like they don't in the USA, UK, or Canada.

Well, actually it does. A Singapore report would be more credible than anything that the RTP could produce. And they can't because their technology is far behind. But most importantly, they cannot lose face by admitting that because they know everything there is to know about everything. One of the historical effects of never being colonised. Arrogance in spades amongst the elite.

Thus all the talk about they would do this and do that never materialised for the above reasons. Once the defence denounce the DNA findings and custody trail (if any), possibly with the testimony of Ms Porntip, and provide a scenario that introduces reasonable doubt, it would be up to the judge whether or not the 'evidence' is accepted.

One thing that puzzles me about any posters who believe the B2 are guilty, is that the profile of the B2 (and their physical stature of being under 5 feet) and their subsequent actions of going into work the next day, don't fit with a frenzied and horrific attack on both of the victims, one of whom is considerably larger and with none of his DNA on the hoe, it beggars belief. That, for me, is why I consider them innocent.

You don't live in Thailand do you? You have never been to trail here or ever arrested here, have you?

You mean the testimony of "Ms. Make Believe" don't you? As to your knowledge there is no such person. But Hell, I am game to hear that from the Trial.

Hey! Let the Defense run their own DNA Testing from a credible source. I am all for that. I never said at any time I was against them getting a fare trial. But I am against throwing out a Murder Trail, and letting 2 murderers go free, based on your feelings it is not up to UK Standards, or there DNA Testing Procedures. It was good enough to match 2 accused out of some 300 or more DNA Samples they took. For me that is good enough.

Besides that, you cannot convict on DNA Samples alone. This is only because the accuracy rate is something like in 1 in every 100 Million or so. So DNA can only be used as supporting evidence.

Yes! I think 2 Smaller Burmese Men with Weapons can overpower a much larger man who is Butt Naked at the time and has no Weapon, and is not a Martial Arts Expert, and like David Miller wasn't. Do you think you could under those conditions?

1) I have lived in Thailand for the last 8 years, mercifully only getting a couple of car related fines. So I am well versed in RTP and Thai officialism ways of dealing with any non-Thai. Money buys justice here.

2) Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, (Ms Make Believe) director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that police did not understand the investigation in the bludgeoning death of Hannah.

She cast doubts on the police investigation into the death of two British backpackers on Koh Tao Thursday, saying investigators erred when they neglected to involve a forensic pathologist. Shucks, I thought you knew all there is to know about this investigation.

3) Any other evidence produced to support the DNA has yet to be challenged by the defence in court.

4) As I stated before, the B2 profile does not match a violent killing. Lust is not a motivation for that - revenge is.

But never mind, an education awaits you when the trial begins.

[stephenterry]

Look! You asked me to prove you wrong about Singapore and I did. How many more times to you want me to prove you wrong here. I am tired of your game.

Where is your Link from a Credible source that suggests the accused are innocent? And Gossip and Bar Room talk about Police taking bribes or tampering with evidence will not do. As I said many times. I can easily find Gossip and B.S. It is time for me, the Prosecution to rest my case. Now I am waiting for you, the Defense to present your evidence.

So as the wise man said here once already. Either Put Up....or Shut Up!

Okay, you want me to present credibility that suggests the accused are innocent, I'll share with you (and others on here) part of the defence case, plus an insight into prejudicial British officialism. Please don't get upset, there are around 60 prosecution witnesses willing to counteract it, although I would bet there are zero eye-witnesses.

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/13349-koh-tao-defence-team-finds-three-key-witnesses.html

Now I've put up, time for you to shut up.

[sambum]

In reply to GOLDBUGGY Post #158:-

You seem to have acquired the knack of asking a question, ignoring the answer(s) given, and then answering it yourself e.g.

"So I question why someone would do this just to convict 2 innocent men,"

I gave you 3 possible reasons,i.e..

"The reason why someone would do this just to convict 2 innocent men? (Or if you prefer, "Why would someone.......etc") At the risk of being labelled a "conspiracy theorist" by one of your 2 or 3 followers - MONEY sounds like a strong enough contender! Also the fact that huge amounts of FACE are obviously at stake - especially in the light of a very high ranking Police Officer saying "No Thai could do this" , hence, possibly, "Find somebody to blame, but make sure they're not Thai" And the ARROGANCE of being totally convinced of their ability to solve the crime on their own without any outside help, hence the "invitation" to the British Police to "observe" only."

You completely ignored my answers, and then gave your own i.e.:-

"Maybe the reason why someone would do this is because they found the guilty parties."

Really? You are now privy to what the judge is going to say after the trial?

You are in suitable company, and I notice that you have taken the "conspiracy theory" statement to a brand new level - it has now become "Grand Conspiracy Theory"! I wonder if JD,JohnThailandJohn or AleG will take you to task over your conspiracy theory above? Somehow I doubt it!

• Quote

[mihalis]

Where have all these do gooders gone, screaming and helping with financial aid.....

Reading comments like land of lies, makes me laugh............. Families are happy, thats all that counts, all you who are crying, seem to go quiet when donations are asked for... Have no idea, why some people hate Thailand so much, but still live there..

[GOLDBUGGY]

IslandLover

I have already Linked the Gangster Chatting up Hannah in the Bar. It is on page 7 near the bottom. If you are too lazy to read it, or can't, then fine. But please don't accuse someone for not provided this information that is already here. That makes you a Liar.

This next Link indicates that a blood stains and shirt as Physical Evidence. It doesn't go on to much in detail about it, but does mention the shirt. A lot of the web sites concerning evidence are now blocked, for good reason, so it is difficult to find. But then you wouldn't know that as you never check anything. But this one does mention the shirt.

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/04/thailand-court-grants-evidence-review-for-pair-accused-of-brit-murders/

[GOLDBUGGY]

I can't get my head around the fact that after all this time, with all the compelling evidence that contradicts the official story, some posters still try to defend the corrupt RTP and blame the Burmese patsies. How can a sane person be that ignorant? Or is it because they have never followed the whole story right from the beginning, or are they shills working for TV?

A very good friend of mine has written much here about this case and followed the whole sharade from the very start. He'd say that it is useless to post here, because you have a majority of people who are clever enough to see the greater picture and understand what the true story is and on the other side are some stupid nut cakes who will always contradict whatever evidence you will throw at them. It is wasted energy trying to convince them otherwise, hence I refrain from posting anything more here regarding that story.

We - with our posts - will not achieve anything if not even the great person running CSI LA was able to change anything by putting his life on the line, even live on tv, trying to shed light on the truth. The massive amount of bribe money paid to the RTP by the mafia kingpin will assure that the Burmese patsies will hang after an unfair and premeditated trial that will have all of us truth seekers screaming and crying in agony, while the true culprits will run free and certainly rape and murder again on that cesspit of an island. It's a sick and shoddy world we live in - it sucks!

Just wish the TV member who has hammered up the complete time line in utter detail about this case. Perhaps Bommerangutan can shed some light on this, and thanks to him for his continued fight against the ignorant. I think the best method to shut them up is to completely ignore them.

Yes! Please do show us some of this "compelling evidence that contradicts the official story" that you just said exists. I would be happy to see a Link.

It sure beats seeing you constantly going Blah!Blah!Blah! all the time and no proof to back a single word of yours.

Did you ever hear "Pay Up or Shut Up" before?

[boomerangutang]

Besides that, you cannot convict on DNA Samples alone.

This is Thailand. Things are not the same here as in farang lands re; how justice is meted out. The self-appointed PM has already stated, in October, "if the DNA matches, then the two suspects (the Burmese) must be guilty of the murders."

It's interesting that every official comment about the two Burmese suspects - assumes everything bad that was done, was done by both. It's as though they're Siamese Twins (pun intended) - as seen by Thai officialdom. In case anyone neglected to notice, they're two people, with two brains, two sets of limbs. Just because they're implicated in a serious crime, doesn't mean they both did the exact same actions.

[AleG]

The post #183 above, is a good graphic. It's the sort of display which drives the RTP-echoers nuts, and is the reason they hate social media. Well, let me clarify that: they hate social media when it shows how wrong they and the RTP are (like when RTP were proved wrong about claiming to have found Hannah's phone at the B's place), But they love social media when it backs their assumptions. Come to think of it, when has social media or photos backed the establishments' scenario?

Perhaps it was when NS got his DNA tested and compared to DNA found on Hannah. Or the reenactment (with two bewildered/scared young men being physically manipulated by RTP, sometimes two per scapegoat, one on each side, moving legs and arms ). I rest my case - for now.

It's rather sad how you cling to the conspiracy theory that the police planted Hanna's phone when the men on trial have already admitted in court (supported by two other witnesses) that they had that phone (which once again it was the same model, color and brand as Miller's) since the day of the murders.

As always, don't let the facts get on the way of your make believe story.

That was social media's greatest coup of the case and they were proven completely and utterly wrong, that you, and others can't face that fact and resort to denial to hold on to your unsupported beliefs says all that needs to be said about your bona fides regarding truth and justice.

[AleG]

I can't get my head around the fact that after all this time, with all the compelling evidence that contradicts the official story, some posters still try to defend the corrupt RTP and blame the Burmese patsies. How can a sane person be that ignorant? Or is it because they have never followed the whole story right from the beginning, or are they shills working for TV?

A very good friend of mine has written much here about this case and followed the whole sharade from the very start. He'd say that it is useless to post here, because you have a majority of people who are clever enough to see the greater picture and understand what the true story is and on the other side are some stupid nut cakes who will always contradict whatever evidence you will throw at them. It is wasted energy trying to convince them otherwise, hence I refrain from posting anything more here regarding that story.

We - with our posts - will not achieve anything if not even the great person running CSI LA was able to change anything by putting his life on the line, even live on tv, trying to shed light on the truth. The massive amount of bribe money paid to the RTP by the mafia kingpin will assure that the Burmese patsies will hang after an unfair and premeditated trial that will have all of us truth seekers screaming and crying in agony, while the true culprits will run free and certainly rape and murder again on that cesspit of an island. It's a sick and shoddy world we live in - it sucks!

Just wish the TV member who has hammered up the complete time line in utter detail about this case. Perhaps Bommerangutan can shed some light on this, and thanks to him for his continued fight against the ignorant. I think the best method to shut them up is to completely ignore them.

Well, what is that evidence you speak of? Because all I have seen from the Scapegoat Club are baseless rumors, speculation and outright falsehoods (see previous post as an example) to support the case that the men are innocent and victims of a vast conspiracy to frame them and protect the "real murderers".

[GOLDBUGGY]

Sure, I can see My Prime Minister of Canada sitting down with the Head Honcho of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and say "Hey Hank" "Lets Frame a couple of poor Immigrants for that Rape and Murder that took place in Toronto last week." "Or the President of the United States doing the same with the Secretary of State. Sure it is possible but do you know how crazy that sounds?

But this is exactly what you all try to say when involving the present Leader of this country and his top Generals, and expect everyone to buy that. Like this is the only murder and rape that has taken place in Thailand this year so the Police have nothing better to do with there time and money then frame a couple of Innocent Migrant Workers.

Would you believe that a US president drank hard liquor every night, and conspired like a madman against months-long accusations that he orchestrated an illegal break-in to steal items? Would you believe another US prez conspired with Iranian leaders to get the Iranians to pay for an illegal & hidden war in Nicaragua? All sorts of strange things happen within the dark corridors of power. Those are just two of hundreds of recent examples. Most important factor, in your dismissal of the possibility of wrong-doing at the top echelons of Thai power brokers, .....is this is happening in Thailand - where power plays can often be stranger than the shenanigans which go on in farang countries.

Yes, I would admit to being a 3 legged frog, if I was under duress and pressured by the Police. But I would not confess to a murder I did not commit, where being found guilty means the death sentence. They did not look beaten or swollen when they appeared in front of the press for the reenactment.

In such scenarios, the choices for scapegoats are:

1. admit to the charges, and avoid the death penalty

or

2. Don't admit, and you will be found guilty in court, and you will get the death penalty.

If they hadn't retracted, they would not be facing execution. Now that they've retracted, they do face death.

And, my friend, you would admit anything under the sun, even that you were guilty of a murder you didn't commit, if the torture was effectively administrated. Trust me, you would.

As for appearances: There are well known methods, some of them psychological, for forcing someone to tell lies - which don't show up on a body - particularly on a person with all their clothes on, and as viewed from several meters away.

So scrap the the Confessions. I have already said this 3 times now. How many more do I need to say it?

Yes! We do not know our breaking point until we get there. For some, after you know you committed this crime, and they come back with DNA to prove it, then tell you that you will get the Death Penalty if you don't plead Guilty, could be enough. Like these guys perhaps and what the police are saying.

It is not important if I would confess or not as I am not up for trail. I would like to see an investigation into this just like everyone else. But again, I would not let 2 Possible Rapist and Murderers go free based on the Police Force using excess Interrogation Tactics. I would just ban there confession as evidence.

But for any Police Force in the world, part of Interrogation is to put duress on you perhaps using threats to admit to a crime or act. What is not acceptable is physical violence. All we have right now is "Their Word against the Police Force Word" as there is no signs of a beating. Their Lawyer has not provided any evidence into this matter either. He just said his clients said this.

Lets face it though. If You or I had committed this crime and our behinds were in the sling, like there's are, then I would be looking for any loop hole I could to jump through to. I would be screaming Police Brutality, Forced Confession, I was the one Raped, Faulty DNA Testing, Crime Scene destroyed, and I honestly never didn't do this Crime to, and at the top of my lungs to anyone who would listen to me. So it does not surprise me that they are doing this now. .

[boomerangutang]

IslandLover

I have already Linked the Gangster Chatting up Hannah in the Bar. It is on page 7 near the bottom. If you are too lazy to read it, or can't, then fine. But please don't accuse someone for not provided this information that is already here. That makes you a Liar.

This next Link indicates that a blood stains and shirt as Physical Evidence. It doesn't go on to much in detail about it, but does mention the shirt. A lot of the web sites concerning evidence are now blocked, for good reason, so it is difficult to find. But then you wouldn't know that as you never check anything. But this one does mention the shirt.

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/04/thailand-court-grants-evidence-review-for-pair-accused-of-brit-murders/

from that article, linked above:

"He said the defence intended to independently examine DNA samples as well as physical evidence at the crime scene including blood stains and a shirt.

the connecting word between 'blood stains' and 'shirt' is 'and'. It's not 'on' ....as in 'blood stains on a shirt.' There's a difference.

I think in earlier posts, GB was referring to blood stains ON a shirt. That's what threw me for a loop, because Thai forensics has done such a shoddy job, that the only blood stains they seem to have looked at, were on the hoe - and Thai forensics claimed there was none of David's blood on it. Yet Thai officialdom has several times claimed the hoe was the weapon used on David. Thai forensics also appears to have made a giant mistake in mis-reading the stab wounds inflicted on the right side of David's neck, and elsewhere on his body. We, who care about truth and justice, have been waiting 8 months for British forensics to do their jobs, but nothing has come forth from them. We may hear something in a few weeks, or we may not. Regardless, the Brits look like they're more concerned about maintaining a chummy relationship with Thai officialdom than with doing the right thing for fellow Brits David and Hannah, and their families.

[GOLDBUGGY]

stephenterry

Sorry for not remembering the Thai Name, but yes I did see something like that. She said they neglected to involve a Forensic Pathologist at the Crime Scene from the start. Don't know why your news didn't include the last part.

She didn't say that the DNA Samples taken were not good, nor did she say they were tampered with. So what do you expect to gain from that? A New Independent DNA Test? Fine! I hope you get it for the umpteen time. .

[AleG]

Sorry GB, you're wrong and PS2 is right. There were two tranches of Burmese migrants on the island who were tested (meanwhile, Nomsod was hiding and insisting he could not be tested). All, I repeat ALL those migrants were cleared. The B2 were very likely in those groups of hundreds of migrants tested earlier - even those photos on the beach provide proof.

Yet, when the pressure from Bkk became so great - to implicate someone other than anyone connected to the Headman's family, then the scapegoats were rounded up - and (surprise!) RTP very quickly found their DNA matched. The same DNA trail which the judge is waffling about allowing the defense to get re-examined.

Not surprisingly, the investigation came to focus ONLY on Burmese migrants, around the time the hard-core police head put himself in charge, while the former head cop (who was earlier on the right trail) was quickly put in a do-nothing desk job in Bangkok.

If I were advising the defense team, I'd have them call the initial head cop, Panya, to the stand - and hope he's not afraid to tell the truth of what he really knows. Yet, knowing what I know from visiting and residing in Thailand for a third of a century, he will likely clam up. He knows what's important for self preservation.

"the investigation came to focus ONLY on Burmese migrants, around the time the hard-core police head put himself in charge"

The very first suspects were three Burmese men that were cleared of involvement within two days of the murders; something that has been pointed out to you (LINK) before but choose to ignore in favour of your own theories.

Sep. 16: "PHUKET: Three Myanmar workers were detained on Tuesday to be questioned about the murder of two Britons on Koh Tao, Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwan said today."

They were cleared on the same day: "Three male Myanmar workers were held for questioning, but ruled out of the investigation yesterday afternoon"

Then of course there's the fact that the police were checking on Burmese workers throughout the investigation, and least but not least Panya Manmen, which you falsely claim was put in a "do-nothing job" said this the day before the arrests:

"...police had narrowed down the number of suspects to about ten who are to be requestioned. These ten suspects who include Thais, foreigners and Myanmar migrant workers were at the AC Bar on Koh Tao on the night of September 15 between midnight to 4.40 am of the following day.

Pol Lt-Gen Panya said that although these group of suspects were not held in custody after they were once questioned they are being closely watched by plainclothes policemen to prevent them from escaping."

Again, this has been pointed out to you before (LINK) and you choose to ignore facts in favour of your own make-belive scenarios.

[StealthEnergiser]

Interesting stab marks that have not been explained , it doesn't look like a hoe or bottle could do this.

[AleG]

You do know that they were cleared when they checked 300 or more Burmese workers.

They volunteered to give their DNA which was a non-Match.

After their arrest and police interrogation in a "safe house" they checked once more, this time it matched....

dna.jpg

Every time this comes up I ask for a source stating that they their samples were cleared before their arrest.

So far nothing, though it doesn't stop that straw from being passed along to be clutched.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Hey! Let the Defense run their own DNA Testing from a credible source. I am all for that. I never said at any time I was against them getting a fare trial. But I am against throwing out a Murder Trail, and letting 2 murderers go free, based on your feelings it is not up to UK Standards, or there DNA Testing Procedures. It was good enough to match 2 accused out of some 300 or more DNA Samples they took. For me that is good enough.

You do know that they were cleared when they checked 300 or more Burmese workers.

They volunteered to give their DNA which was a non-Match.

After their arrest and police interrogation in a "safe house" they checked once more, this time it matched....

dna.jpg

Well, that is not what happened. What happened was 6 Burmese Migrant Workers were brought in for questioning, including the 2 accused, and DNA Samples were taken then. Since they could not tie them to the murders yet, they let them all go.

It was only a few days after, when the DNA Test Results came back, and matched the 2 accused, that they were arrested on Immigration Charges, and held, while there house was being searched.

Sorry GB, you're wrong and PS2 is right. There were two tranches of Burmese migrants on the island who were tested (meanwhile, Nomsod was hiding and insisting he could not be tested). All, I repeat ALL those migrants were cleared. The B2 were very likely in those groups of hundreds of migrants tested earlier - even those photos on the beach provide proof.

Yet, when the pressure from Bkk became so great - to implicate someone other than anyone connected to the Headman's family, then the scapegoats were rounded up - and (surprise!) RTP very quickly found their DNA matched. The same DNA trail which the judge is waffling about allowing the defense to get re-examined.

Not surprisingly, the investigation came to focus ONLY on Burmese migrants, around the time the hard-core police head put himself in charge, while the former head cop (who was earlier on the right trail) was quickly put in a do-nothing desk job in Bangkok.

If I were advising the defense team, I'd have them call the initial head cop, Panya, to the stand - and hope he's not afraid to tell the truth of what he really knows. Yet, knowing what I know from visiting and residing in Thailand for a third of a century, he will likely clam up. He knows what's important for self preservation.

Yes! Many people on the island were tested before them. At that point they had tested at least 200 people, and I believe the total was closer to 300 people. Sure some of them tested were Burmese. The island is full of them. But not the 2 accused at this point. They got tested later along with 4 others. So your "Very Likely" is wrong. It is also not logical either as this would come out in court.

Forget about some Grand Conspiracy Theory. It only exists in some people heads. There is no proof of this or even good Common Sense. A President of any country does not get involved in framing so poor Migrant Workers, or his Top Generals, when the worlds eye are upon him. This is just ludicrous!

[GOLDBUGGY]

Look! You asked me to prove you wrong about Singapore and I did. How many more times to you want me to prove you wrong here. I am tired of your game.

Where is your Link from a Credible source that suggests the accused are innocent? And Gossip and Bar Room talk about Police taking bribes or tampering with evidence will not do. As I said many times. I can easily find Gossip and B.S. It is time for me, the Prosecution to rest my case. Now I am waiting for you, the Defense to present your evidence.

So as the wise man said here once already. Either Put Up....or Shut Up!

Okay, you want me to present credibility that suggests the accused are innocent, I'll share with you (and others on here) part of the defence case, plus an insight into prejudicial British officialism. Please don't get upset, there are around 60 prosecution witnesses willing to counteract it, although I would bet there are zero eye-witnesses.

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/13349-koh-tao-defence-team-finds-three-key-witnesses.html

Now I've put up, time for you to shut up.

Good! Finally a Link that says something other than Blah!Blah!Blah!

If it is true, then it does cast reasonable doubt into there Innocents. Especially if they can identify who these people were. Or more importantly if they can be sure it isn't the accuse. Hope it comes out in court.

[StealthEnergiser]

U Aung Myo Thant said one of the eyewitnesses saw the men who accompanied the British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller from the hotel shortly before the murder. Another witness said he had seen the rape by the light of his motorbike.

“They are telling the truth, but they are afraid to speak out in court,” said U Kyaw Thaung, another member of the investigation team and director of a Myanmar association in Thailand.

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/13349-koh-tao-defence-team-finds-three-key-witnesses.html

[GOLDBUGGY]

The post #183 above, is a good graphic. It's the sort of display which drives the RTP-echoers nuts, and is the reason they hate social media. Well, let me clarify that: they hate social media when it shows how wrong they and the RTP are (like when RTP were proved wrong about claiming to have found Hannah's phone at the B's place), But they love social media when it backs their assumptions. Come to think of it, when has social media or photos backed the establishments' scenario?

Perhaps it was when NS got his DNA tested and compared to DNA found on Hannah. Or the reenactment (with two bewildered/scared young men being physically manipulated by RTP, sometimes two per scapegoat, one on each side, moving legs and arms ). I rest my case - for now.

It's rather sad how you cling to the conspiracy theory that the police planted Hanna's phone when the men on trial have already admitted in court (supported by two other witnesses) that they had that phone (which once again it was the same model, color and brand as Miller's) since the day of the murders.

As always, don't let the facts get on the way of your make believe story.

That was social media's greatest coup of the case and they were proven completely and utterly wrong, that you, and others can't face that fact and resort to denial to hold on to your unsupported beliefs says all that needs to be said about your bona fides regarding truth and justice.

Yes! But this time please pay attention. So put down your Beer and listen again.

The Media discovered it wasn't Hannah's Cell Phone, and provided picture to prove that, as it was never Hannah's Cell phone that was stolen. It was David Miller Cell Phone that was stolen.

Are you still with me on this?

But the General who reported to the Media was misinformed and said it was Hannah's instead of Davids. Hannah's Cell Phone was turned over to a friend of Hannah's by Police in the presence of an Official from the British Embassy, and captured by the media. So it was not a Cover-up but rather a mistake in information or translation.

[GOLDBUGGY]

IslandLover

I have already Linked the Gangster Chatting up Hannah in the Bar. It is on page 7 near the bottom. If you are too lazy to read it, or can't, then fine. But please don't accuse someone for not provided this information that is already here. That makes you a Liar.

This next Link indicates that a blood stains and shirt as Physical Evidence. It doesn't go on to much in detail about it, but does mention the shirt. A lot of the web sites concerning evidence are now blocked, for good reason, so it is difficult to find. But then you wouldn't know that as you never check anything. But this one does mention the shirt.

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/04/thailand-court-grants-evidence-review-for-pair-accused-of-brit-murders/

from that article, linked above:

"He said the defence intended to independently examine DNA samples as well as physical evidence at the crime scene including blood stains and a shirt.

the connecting word between 'blood stains' and 'shirt' is 'and'. It's not 'on' ....as in 'blood stains on a shirt.' There's a difference.

I think in earlier posts, GB was referring to blood stains ON a shirt. That's what threw me for a loop, because Thai forensics has done such a shoddy job, that the only blood stains they seem to have looked at, were on the hoe - and Thai forensics claimed there was none of David's blood on it. Yet Thai officialdom has several times claimed the hoe was the weapon used on David. Thai forensics also appears to have made a giant mistake in mis-reading the stab wounds inflicted on the right side of David's neck, and elsewhere on his body. We, who care about truth and justice, have been waiting 8 months for British forensics to do their jobs, but nothing has come forth from them. We may hear something in a few weeks, or we may not. Regardless, the Brits look like they're more concerned about maintaining a chummy relationship with Thai officialdom than with doing the right thing for fellow Brits David and Hannah, and their families.

So what would you expect to find on a shirt that is used as Evidence? Beer Stains? The Kids were both old enough to drink.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Sorry GB, you're wrong and PS2 is right. There were two tranches of Burmese migrants on the island who were tested (meanwhile, Nomsod was hiding and insisting he could not be tested). All, I repeat ALL those migrants were cleared. The B2 were very likely in those groups of hundreds of migrants tested earlier - even those photos on the beach provide proof.

Yet, when the pressure from Bkk became so great - to implicate someone other than anyone connected to the Headman's family, then the scapegoats were rounded up - and (surprise!) RTP very quickly found their DNA matched. The same DNA trail which the judge is waffling about allowing the defense to get re-examined.

Not surprisingly, the investigation came to focus ONLY on Burmese migrants, around the time the hard-core police head put himself in charge, while the former head cop (who was earlier on the right trail) was quickly put in a do-nothing desk job in Bangkok.

If I were advising the defense team, I'd have them call the initial head cop, Panya, to the stand - and hope he's not afraid to tell the truth of what he really knows. Yet, knowing what I know from visiting and residing in Thailand for a third of a century, he will likely clam up. He knows what's important for self preservation.

"the investigation came to focus ONLY on Burmese migrants, around the time the hard-core police head put himself in charge"

The very first suspects were three Burmese men that were cleared of involvement within two days of the murders; something that has been pointed out to you (LINK) before but choose to ignore in favour of your own theories.

Sep. 16: "PHUKET: Three Myanmar workers were detained on Tuesday to be questioned about the murder of two Britons on Koh Tao, Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwan said today."

They were cleared on the same day: "Three male Myanmar workers were held for questioning, but ruled out of the investigation yesterday afternoon"

Then of course there's the fact that the police were checking on Burmese workers throughout the investigation, and least but not least Panya Manmen, which you falsely claim was put in a "do-nothing job" said this the day before the arrests:

"...police had narrowed down the number of suspects to about ten who are to be requestioned. These ten suspects who include Thais, foreigners and Myanmar migrant workers were at the AC Bar on Koh Tao on the night of September 15 between midnight to 4.40 am of the following day.

Pol Lt-Gen Panya said that although these group of suspects were not held in custody after they were once questioned they are being closely watched by plainclothes policemen to prevent them from escaping."

Again, this has been pointed out to you before (LINK) and you choose to ignore facts in favour of your own make-belive scenarios.

I stand to be corrected.

Yes they were held for questioned then, and DNA sample were collected and compared to the crime scene. But it wasn't until later that DNA Samples were collected from Hannah.

But still there is a 2 weeks gap between this time and the arrest.