Koh Tao: Men accused of killing Brit backpackers plead with victims' families for justice

[IslandLover]

IslandLover

I have already Linked the Gangster Chatting up Hannah in the Bar. It is on page 7 near the bottom. If you are too lazy to read it, or can't, then fine. But please don't accuse someone for not provided this information that is already here. That makes you a Liar.

This next Link indicates that a blood stains and shirt as Physical Evidence. It doesn't go on to much in detail about it, but does mention the shirt. A lot of the web sites concerning evidence are now blocked, for good reason, so it is difficult to find. But then you wouldn't know that as you never check anything. But this one does mention the shirt.

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/04/thailand-court-grants-evidence-review-for-pair-accused-of-brit-murders/

GOLDBUGGY

I am not too lazy to read, nor am I a liar. I've read virtually every press report (in Thai, Burmese and English) connected with this case since last September and I read the reports contained in the links you provided ages ago. As you well know, the story about Hannah being harrassed by gangsters in the AC bar has been vehemently denied by the Thai authorities and no real eyewitnesses have come forward to actually confirm it - not even the travelling companions of David and Hannah. In addition, the rumoured photograph of said altercation has never surfaced. This is why I'm surprised you are claiming that it is true.

Regarding the t-shirt, it has only been mentioned in the context of the judge allowing the defence team to independently examine the DNA evidence (order given at the court hearing on 30th April 2015, which was later rescinded). Nowhere in any press report does it say that it was Hannah's blood on this t-shirt and it could just as easily have been David's.

Please stop stating unfounded rumours/hearsay/questionable press reporting as FACTS. You know no more about this case and the actual evidence against the accused than any of us do on this forum. Let's hope the forthcoming trial will shed some light on it.

[berybert]

Sure, I can see My Prime Minister of Canada sitting down with the Head Honcho of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and say "Hey Hank" "Lets Frame a couple of poor Immigrants for that Rape and Murder that took place in Toronto last week." "Or the President of the United States doing the same with the Secretary of State. Sure it is possible but do you know how crazy that sounds?

But this is exactly what you all try to say when involving the present Leader of this country and his top Generals, and expect everyone to buy that. Like this is the only murder and rape that has taken place in Thailand this year so the Police have nothing better to do with there time and money then frame a couple of Innocent Migrant Workers.

Would you believe that a US president drank hard liquor every night, and conspired like a madman against months-long accusations that he orchestrated an illegal break-in to steal items? Would you believe another US prez conspired with Iranian leaders to get the Iranians to pay for an illegal & hidden war in Nicaragua? All sorts of strange things happen within the dark corridors of power. Those are just two of hundreds of recent examples. Most important factor, in your dismissal of the possibility of wrong-doing at the top echelons of Thai power brokers, .....is this is happening in Thailand - where power plays can often be stranger than the shenanigans which go on in farang countries.

Yes, I would admit to being a 3 legged frog, if I was under duress and pressured by the Police. But I would not confess to a murder I did not commit, where being found guilty means the death sentence. They did not look beaten or swollen when they appeared in front of the press for the reenactment.

In such scenarios, the choices for scapegoats are:

1. admit to the charges, and avoid the death penalty

or

2. Don't admit, and you will be found guilty in court, and you will get the death penalty.

If they hadn't retracted, they would not be facing execution. Now that they've retracted, they do face death.

And, my friend, you would admit anything under the sun, even that you were guilty of a murder you didn't commit, if the torture was effectively administrated. Trust me, you would.

As for appearances: There are well known methods, some of them psychological, for forcing someone to tell lies - which don't show up on a body - particularly on a person with all their clothes on, and as viewed from several meters away.

So scrap the the Confessions. I have already said this 3 times now. How many more do I need to say it?

Yes! We do not know our breaking point until we get there. For some, after you know you committed this crime, and they come back with DNA to prove it, then tell you that you will get the Death Penalty if you don't plead Guilty, could be enough. Like these guys perhaps and what the police are saying.

It is not important if I would confess or not as I am not up for trail. I would like to see an investigation into this just like everyone else. But again, I would not let 2 Possible Rapist and Murderers go free based on the Police Force using excess Interrogation Tactics. I would just ban there confession as evidence.

But for any Police Force in the world, part of Interrogation is to put duress on you perhaps using threats to admit to a crime or act. What is not acceptable is physical violence. All we have right now is "Their Word against the Police Force Word" as there is no signs of a beating. Their Lawyer has not provided any evidence into this matter either. He just said his clients said this.

Lets face it though. If You or I had committed this crime and our behinds were in the sling, like there's are, then I would be looking for any loop hole I could to jump through to. I would be screaming Police Brutality, Forced Confession, I was the one Raped, Faulty DNA Testing, Crime Scene destroyed, and I honestly never didn't do this Crime to, and at the top of my lungs to anyone who would listen to me. So it does not surprise me that they are doing this now. .

Or you could have just left the island as it seems all the others involved in this crime did. Well other than Mon. But he had to hang around cause he owned the crime scene.

[berybert]

IslandLover

I have already Linked the Gangster Chatting up Hannah in the Bar. It is on page 7 near the bottom. If you are too lazy to read it, or can't, then fine. But please don't accuse someone for not provided this information that is already here. That makes you a Liar.

This next Link indicates that a blood stains and shirt as Physical Evidence. It doesn't go on to much in detail about it, but does mention the shirt. A lot of the web sites concerning evidence are now blocked, for good reason, so it is difficult to find. But then you wouldn't know that as you never check anything. But this one does mention the shirt.

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/04/thailand-court-grants-evidence-review-for-pair-accused-of-brit-murders/

GOLDBUGGY

I am not too lazy to read, nor am I a liar. I've read virtually every press report (in Thai, Burmese and English) connected with this case since last September and I read the reports contained in the links you provided ages ago. As you well know, the story about Hannah being harrassed by gangsters in the AC bar has been vehemently denied by the Thai authorities and no real eyewitnesses have come forward to actually confirm it - not even the travelling companions of David and Hannah. In addition, the rumoured photograph of said altercation has never surfaced. This is why I'm surprised you are claiming that it is true.

Regarding the t-shirt, it has only been mentioned in the context of the judge allowing the defence team to independently examine the DNA evidence (order given at the court hearing on 30th April 2015, which was later rescinded). Nowhere in any press report does it say that it was Hannah's blood on this t-shirt and it could just as easily have been David's.

Please stop stating unfounded rumours/hearsay/questionable press reporting as FACTS. You know no more about this case and the actual evidence against the accused than any of us do on this forum. Let's hope the forthcoming trial will shed some light on it.

I think GB is getting so excited he doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

He claims the Burmese are 100% guilty then a few minutes later posts reports that are coulda/shoulda/lemonpudda, and claims Hannah was hassled by a gangster.

So was it the Burmese or the gangster ?

[IslandLover]

@GOLDBUGGY - further to my post #212 above:

From the Guardian article you quoted, which was relayed through AFP:

He said the defence intended to independently examine DNA samples as well as physical evidence at the crime scene including blood stains and a shirt.

Can you tell me how you interpret this as "Hannah's blood was found on the t-shirt of one of the accused"? I repeat, there are NO press reports stating that Hannah's blood was found on the t-shirt of one of the accused.

A further article by Guardian journalist Peter Walker states the following:

The court in Koh Samui has ruled that Thailand’s Central Institute of Forensic Science, attached to the justice ministry, should be allowed to retest DNA samples that prosecutors say show the suspects murdered Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in September, on the holiday island of Koh Tao. They will also examine physical evidence, including a shirt worn by one of the suspects.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/thailand-dna-british-backpacker-murders-burmese-suspects?CMP=share_btn_fb

Again, no mention of Hannah's blood being found on the t-shirt of one of the accused.

Perhaps you can provide a link to a press report which DOES say this.

[Mooner]

The very first suspects were three Burmese men that were cleared of involvement within two days of the murders; something that has been pointed out to you (LINK) before but choose to ignore in favour of your own theories.

So they were cleared! So now how are they in jail and you are so convinced of their guilt?

[Mooner]

Or are they conviently another group of three burmese!

[sambum]

I can't get my head around the fact that after all this time, with all the compelling evidence that contradicts the official story, some posters still try to defend the corrupt RTP and blame the Burmese patsies. How can a sane person be that ignorant? Or is it because they have never followed the whole story right from the beginning, or are they shills working for TV?

A very good friend of mine has written much here about this case and followed the whole sharade from the very start. He'd say that it is useless to post here, because you have a majority of people who are clever enough to see the greater picture and understand what the true story is and on the other side are some stupid nut cakes who will always contradict whatever evidence you will throw at them. It is wasted energy trying to convince them otherwise, hence I refrain from posting anything more here regarding that story.

We - with our posts - will not achieve anything if not even the great person running CSI LA was able to change anything by putting his life on the line, even live on tv, trying to shed light on the truth. The massive amount of bribe money paid to the RTP by the mafia kingpin will assure that the Burmese patsies will hang after an unfair and premeditated trial that will have all of us truth seekers screaming and crying in agony, while the true culprits will run free and certainly rape and murder again on that cesspit of an island. It's a sick and shoddy world we live in - it sucks!

Just wish the TV member who has hammered up the complete time line in utter detail about this case. Perhaps Bommerangutan can shed some light on this, and thanks to him for his continued fight against the ignorant. I think the best method to shut them up is to completely ignore them.

Ignorance to me is defending Rapists and Murderers. Then calling them Kids, when the woman they Raped and Brutally Murdered was only one year older than them.

I hope your friend is one of the Judges at this trail because from all the evidence I have heard about, they sure are going to need him there. The truth needs to come out in Court, and I expect it will. So what is said on some Blog, has no important to this case. Get over it!

Once again, do you have to be reminded that these people are not Murderers and Rapists? (Are the capital letters for effect, by the way?) They have not been convicted of anything yet, but you continually ignore this fact, and carry on with your baiting and trolling, in exactly the same manner as the other 2 or 3 RTP apologists on here.

This is not a personal attack, but merely a statement of the facts. You continually antagonise people with your "bla, bla, bla" childish comments, and confrontational attitude e.g."Get over it!" (There are lots of other examples I could quote, but I'm sure that you get my drift) You attacked one poster the other day for being personal, and you do exactly the same thing yourself!. And why do you persist in calling it a "trail" when you have already been reminded that it is a "trial"? By continuing in this fashion, you are showing that you are indeed a troll, and as such, your comments have no credibility whatsoever with me, and no doubt several other posters on here.

Edited July 4, 2015 by sambum

[cdnvic]

Getting really tired of people abusing the report button, particularly in this topic. It's not an "I disagree with this" button. If you disagree with someone, rebut their claims in the topic or try actually accepting that others have a differing point of view and move on. The emotional investment some of you have in a topic that does not relate to you is not normal. Relax a bit, and stop using the report button to fight your battles.

[cookee68]

.....but maybe, yes maybe, they are guilty, the facts and proof they seem to have suggests that, so I will stick to what is known,...

Unfortunately, there are few facts. Most of the 'facts' could well be fabrications put forth by Thai officials in their manic determination to frame two powerless, poor, young scapegoats. Already we, the general public, have shredded some of those 'facts' ("Hannah's phone found behind the Burmeses' shack, and dozens of other 'facts'").

Here are some facts to stir in to your morning coffee: Thai officials won't cooperate with Thai forensics re; DNA. They refuse to send NS's (and likely other former prime suspects') DNA typing to the Brit experts.

Another 'fact:': The Thai self-appointed PM specified that Brit experts will be allowed to come to the island, but as 'observers only.' NO INVESTIGATING, NO QUESTIONS TO ANYONE BUT THEIR RTP MINDERS, no follow-ups to clues.

Yet another 'fact': The judge said yes in April, to allowing re-examination of DNA. Then he said 'not now. I'll make a decision on the first day of the trial' a few days later.

I understand all that, but then again that is all well within the Thai law they are allowed to do that and change their minds, even produce more evidence on the day, not like in the UK where it is disclosed, so I have to go on what was shown for us to see, and confirm, but there is nobody on the 2 BB helping to save them, they speak of witnesses to support them, but that has so far been hot air, or they wont come they are scared, still all hot air, as stated we will see over the next month, and the family in the UK said that the UK police had spoken to them, and that they were happy with the Thai results gathered, we must remember this is Thai law we are talking about, and it happened in Thailand, in many other countries they would have already been dead

[thailandchilli]

IslandLover

I have already Linked the Gangster Chatting up Hannah in the Bar. It is on page 7 near the bottom. If you are too lazy to read it, or can't, then fine. But please don't accuse someone for not provided this information that is already here. That makes you a Liar.

This next Link indicates that a blood stains and shirt as Physical Evidence. It doesn't go on to much in detail about it, but does mention the shirt. A lot of the web sites concerning evidence are now blocked, for good reason, so it is difficult to find. But then you wouldn't know that as you never check anything. But this one does mention the shirt.

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/04/thailand-court-grants-evidence-review-for-pair-accused-of-brit-murders/

from that article, linked above:

"He said the defence intended to independently examine DNA samples as well as physical evidence at the crime scene including blood stains and a shirt.

the connecting word between 'blood stains' and 'shirt' is 'and'. It's not 'on' ....as in 'blood stains on a shirt.' There's a difference.

I think in earlier posts, GB was referring to blood stains ON a shirt. That's what threw me for a loop, because Thai forensics has done such a shoddy job, that the only blood stains they seem to have looked at, were on the hoe - and Thai forensics claimed there was none of David's blood on it. Yet Thai officialdom has several times claimed the hoe was the weapon used on David. Thai forensics also appears to have made a giant mistake in mis-reading the stab wounds inflicted on the right side of David's neck, and elsewhere on his body. We, who care about truth and justice, have been waiting 8 months for British forensics to do their jobs, but nothing has come forth from them. We may hear something in a few weeks, or we may not. Regardless, the Brits look like they're more concerned about maintaining a chummy relationship with Thai officialdom than with doing the right thing for fellow Brits David and Hannah, and their families.

So what would you expect to find on a shirt that is used as Evidence? Beer Stains? The Kids were both old enough to drink.

There can be any number of items found on a t shirt, clothing fibre, a hair or even saliva, or maybe nothing at all, just the fact that the t shirt was found at or around the highly suspect crime scene that was compromised beyond belief, to the point that even taking fingerprints from the hoe was compromised as it had been handled by locals beforehand.

But why do you call the B2 kids when you have venomously criticized others on here for calling them boys?

[stephenterry]

.....but maybe, yes maybe, they are guilty, the facts and proof they seem to have suggests that, so I will stick to what is known,...

Unfortunately, there are few facts. Most of the 'facts' could well be fabrications put forth by Thai officials in their manic determination to frame two powerless, poor, young scapegoats. Already we, the general public, have shredded some of those 'facts' ("Hannah's phone found behind the Burmeses' shack, and dozens of other 'facts'").

Here are some facts to stir in to your morning coffee: Thai officials won't cooperate with Thai forensics re; DNA. They refuse to send NS's (and likely other former prime suspects') DNA typing to the Brit experts.

Another 'fact:': The Thai self-appointed PM specified that Brit experts will be allowed to come to the island, but as 'observers only.' NO INVESTIGATING, NO QUESTIONS TO ANYONE BUT THEIR RTP MINDERS, no follow-ups to clues.

Yet another 'fact': The judge said yes in April, to allowing re-examination of DNA. Then he said 'not now. I'll make a decision on the first day of the trial' a few days later.

I understand all that, but then again that is all well within the Thai law they are allowed to do that and change their minds, even produce more evidence on the day, not like in the UK where it is disclosed, so I have to go on what was shown for us to see, and confirm, but there is nobody on the 2 BB helping to save them, they speak of witnesses to support them, but that has so far been hot air, or they wont come they are scared, still all hot air, as stated we will see over the next month, and the family in the UK said that the UK police had spoken to them, and that they were happy with the Thai results gathered, we must remember this is Thai law we are talking about, and it happened in Thailand, in many other countries they would have already been dead

If the defence has identified witnesses who have come forward, I would suggest it is not 'hot air'. As I understand it (and I don't blame them for being scared) giving evidence at Samui which could implicate Thai locals is risky, that's why the defence will be asking the court if they would accept video-linked testimony from afar. We will see, but I understand already the court has turned down defence witnesses giving testimony in a BKK court. So much for the fair and just trial rhetoric bandied about by Thai officialism - that's hot air.

And this, more than anything, is what infuriates most people on here.

[boomerangutang]

Sorry GB, you're wrong and PS2 is right. There were two tranches of Burmese migrants on the island who were tested (meanwhile, Nomsod was hiding and insisting he could not be tested). All, I repeat ALL those migrants were cleared. The B2 were very likely in those groups of hundreds of migrants tested earlier - even those photos on the beach provide proof.

Yet, when the pressure from Bkk became so great - to implicate someone other than anyone connected to the Headman's family, then the scapegoats were rounded up - and (surprise!) RTP very quickly found their DNA matched. The same DNA trail which the judge is waffling about allowing the defense to get re-examined.

Not surprisingly, the investigation came to focus ONLY on Burmese migrants, around the time the hard-core police head put himself in charge, while the former head cop (who was earlier on the right trail) was quickly put in a do-nothing desk job in Bangkok.

If I were advising the defense team, I'd have them call the initial head cop, Panya, to the stand - and hope he's not afraid to tell the truth of what he really knows. Yet, knowing what I know from visiting and residing in Thailand for a third of a century, he will likely clam up. He knows what's important for self preservation.

Yes! Many people on the island were tested before them. At that point they had tested at least 200 people, and I believe the total was closer to 300 people. Sure some of them tested were Burmese. The island is full of them. But not the 2 accused at this point. They got tested later along with 4 others. So your "Very Likely" is wrong. It is also not logical either as this would come out in court.

Forget about some Grand Conspiracy Theory. It only exists in some people heads. There is no proof of this or even good Common Sense. A President of any country does not get involved in framing so poor Migrant Workers, or his Top Generals, when the worlds eye are upon him. This is just ludicrous!

Before during and after Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects, Thai officialdom were trying frantically to pin the crime on Burmese migrants. Officials tested two groups (hundreds) of Burmese migrants and all were cleared. I repeat: it was announced by Thai officials: ALL WERE CLEARED of DNA matches.

All during that time, there was pressure from Bkk and TAT to nail some suspects, but make sure it wasn't anyone related to the Headman. This they did, and quickly. Yet, officialdom didn't expect us pesky farang to be making so much sustained noise about there being a blatant cover-up. If it was just a Thai affair, the noise would have subsided months ago. Thais are world renown for accepting official pronouncements even when they know they're bullsh!t. Farang have a pesky habit of continuing to speak up, even when officialdom requires them to hush up and move on.

Edited July 5, 2015 by boomerangutang

[GOLDBUGGY]

IslandLover

I have already Linked the Gangster Chatting up Hannah in the Bar. It is on page 7 near the bottom. If you are too lazy to read it, or can't, then fine. But please don't accuse someone for not provided this information that is already here. That makes you a Liar.

This next Link indicates that a blood stains and shirt as Physical Evidence. It doesn't go on to much in detail about it, but does mention the shirt. A lot of the web sites concerning evidence are now blocked, for good reason, so it is difficult to find. But then you wouldn't know that as you never check anything. But this one does mention the shirt.

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/04/thailand-court-grants-evidence-review-for-pair-accused-of-brit-murders/

GOLDBUGGY

I am not too lazy to read, nor am I a liar. I've read virtually every press report (in Thai, Burmese and English) connected with this case since last September and I read the reports contained in the links you provided ages ago. As you well know, the story about Hannah being harrassed by gangsters in the AC bar has been vehemently denied by the Thai authorities and no real eyewitnesses have come forward to actually confirm it - not even the travelling companions of David and Hannah. In addition, the rumoured photograph of said altercation has never surfaced. This is why I'm surprised you are claiming that it is true.

Regarding the t-shirt, it has only been mentioned in the context of the judge allowing the defence team to independently examine the DNA evidence (order given at the court hearing on 30th April 2015, which was later rescinded). Nowhere in any press report does it say that it was Hannah's blood on this t-shirt and it could just as easily have been David's.

Please stop stating unfounded rumours/hearsay/questionable press reporting as FACTS. You know no more about this case and the actual evidence against the accused than any of us do on this forum. Let's hope the forthcoming trial will shed some light on it.

Did I say it was Hannah's Blood? I believe it was the person questioning about the shirt who mentioned that. I never said it was Davids or Hannah's. I just said a shirt was mentioned as evidence, where you and others didn't believe me and said I made that up. So I proved to you I did not make it up by linking you to a Media Report.

You also said I made this up about the gangster chatting up Hannah in the bar, so again I showed you by media link this was mentioned also. That again I did not make this up.Although I believe you made it up about a Police report stating this never happened.

So since I proved to all I did not make this up, it is so ludicrous for you now to try and make me prove this actually happened or didn't. I didn't write these News Articles. Talk to the people who did, to find that out. I only said it was reported when you said t wasn't. So I proved by both Links I did not make this up and it was reported.

So you lose as you were wrong! Take your Defeat with Grace and walk away. End of Discussion!

[GOLDBUGGY]

Sorry GB, you're wrong and PS2 is right. There were two tranches of Burmese migrants on the island who were tested (meanwhile, Nomsod was hiding and insisting he could not be tested). All, I repeat ALL those migrants were cleared. The B2 were very likely in those groups of hundreds of migrants tested earlier - even those photos on the beach provide proof.

Yet, when the pressure from Bkk became so great - to implicate someone other than anyone connected to the Headman's family, then the scapegoats were rounded up - and (surprise!) RTP very quickly found their DNA matched. The same DNA trail which the judge is waffling about allowing the defense to get re-examined.

Not surprisingly, the investigation came to focus ONLY on Burmese migrants, around the time the hard-core police head put himself in charge, while the former head cop (who was earlier on the right trail) was quickly put in a do-nothing desk job in Bangkok.

If I were advising the defense team, I'd have them call the initial head cop, Panya, to the stand - and hope he's not afraid to tell the truth of what he really knows. Yet, knowing what I know from visiting and residing in Thailand for a third of a century, he will likely clam up. He knows what's important for self preservation.

Yes! Many people on the island were tested before them. At that point they had tested at least 200 people, and I believe the total was closer to 300 people. Sure some of them tested were Burmese. The island is full of them. But not the 2 accused at this point. They got tested later along with 4 others. So your "Very Likely" is wrong. It is also not logical either as this would come out in court.

Forget about some Grand Conspiracy Theory. It only exists in some people heads. There is no proof of this or even good Common Sense. A President of any country does not get involved in framing so poor Migrant Workers, or his Top Generals, when the worlds eye are upon him. This is just ludicrous!

Before during and after Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects, Thai officialdom were trying frantically to pin the crime on Burmese migrants. Officials tested two groups (hundreds) of Burmese migrants and all were cleared. I repeat: it was announced by Thai officials: ALL WERE CLEARED of DNA matches.

All during that time, there was pressure from Bkk and TAT to nail some suspects, but make sure it wasn't anyone related to the Headman. This they did, and quickly. Yet, officialdom didn't expect us pesky farang to be making so much sustained noise about there being a blatant cover-up. If it was just a Thai affair, the noise would have subsided months ago. Thais are world renown for accepting official pronouncements even when they know they're bullsh!t. Farang have a pesky habit of continuing to speak up, even when officialdom requires them to hush up and move on.

DNA at the Crime Scene.

At this point in time they did not have Hannah's DNA Samples yet. They didn't even know she was raped by then. They had her samples about September 20th

The time I think you are referring to was September 16, or was it the 17th, and I believe 1 or 2 days after the discovery of the murders. It may have been reported this way but they could not have been cleared of all samples since all samples were not in yet.

[boomerangutang]

Did I say it was Hannah's Blood? I believe it was the person questioning about the shirt who mentioned that. I never said it was Davids or Hannah's. I just said a shirt was mentioned as evidence, where you and others didn't believe me and said I made that up. So I proved to you I did not make it up by linking you to a Media Report.

an earlier post. . . . .

It was after further investigation when they found David's Cell phone with one of the accused. Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's.

It sounds, in the quote above, that you're claiming the blood on the shirt was Hannah's. It's important, in these discussions, to try and be precise.

That issue will become more important, when the trial starts in a few days. It will be a particularly prickly issue, because no recording devices are allowed in the courtroom (except, perhaps, the judges' recording device). No cameras or video recording. The summations from each day's hours-long sessions rely, largely, on the judges' memory. Thai people are also known to play loose with pronouns (omitting them) and verb tenses (most things are said in present tense). There's a lot of inferrence/assumptions when Thais speak to each other. It's not a language suited for precision.

Written Thai doesn't have capital letters to accentuate names and places, and doesn't have hardly any punctuation to discern where a sentence starts and ends. As if that's not enough, there are language issues. The two defendents are Burmese, the court is Thai, and the 2nd third or fourth generation translations will be in English, French, Spanish, other Burmese dialects, and perhaps dozens of other languages. The world's press is interested in this trial. The case and its screw-ups have already been reported in major newspapers ww, and Time magazine, ....in over a dozen languages.

Will the court be ready? Probably not.

[GOLDBUGGY]

You do know that they were cleared when they checked 300 or more Burmese workers.

They volunteered to give their DNA which was a non-Match.

After their arrest and police interrogation in a "safe house" they checked once more, this time it matched....

dna.jpg

Every time this comes up I ask for a source stating that they their samples were cleared before their arrest.

So far nothing, though it doesn't stop that straw from being passed along to be clutched.

The reason why My Friend as the date they are referring to was September 16th. At that time they did not even know Hannah was Raped yet as it was only 1 or 2 days after the discovery of the Bodies. So, they also did not have her DNA Samples until almost a week later, and no earlier the September 20th. Now here is were we get lost in the translation.

They were held for questioning, DNA Samples taken (like 200 or 300 hundred people later) and cleared of all charges (weren't arrested or charged with a crime yet). So sure! They had no proof then and they didn't even have the sperm samples form Hannah yet, so how could they charge anyone yet, unless they admitted to the crime.

Many Mass Murders where question by Police first and let go soon afterwards, due to a lack of evidence. Just put on some Observation List or ignored all together with an alibi they didn't check. This list is endless! How many time have we heard them say that if only they arrested them then, they could have saved many lives?

But when the same thing happens in Thailand, it all of a sudden becomes part of a Grand Conspiracy Theory Plot, for the President of this Country, and his Highest Generals, to frame 2 Poor Innocent Migrant Worker Boys for a Crime, when they did not have to frame anyone. Just say they left the Island and Thailand and end of story.

[Sooo Upto Me]

You do know that they were cleared when they checked 300 or more Burmese workers.

They volunteered to give their DNA which was a non-Match.

After their arrest and police interrogation in a "safe house" they checked once more, this time it matched....

dna.jpg

Every time this comes up I ask for a source stating that they their samples were cleared before their arrest.

So far nothing, though it doesn't stop that straw from being passed along to be clutched.

The reason why My Friend as the date they are referring to was September 16th. At that time they did not even know Hannah was Raped yet as it was only 1 or 2 days after the discovery of the Bodies. So, they also did not have her DNA Samples until almost a week later, and no earlier the September 20th. Now here is were we get lost in

the translation.

They were held for questioning, DNA Samples taken (like 200 or 300 hundred people later) and cleared of all charges (weren't arrested or charged with a crime yet). So sure! They had no proof then and they didn't even have the sperm samples form Hannah yet, so how could they charge anyone yet, unless they admitted to the crime.

Many Mass Murders where question by Police first and let go soon afterwards, due to a lack of evidence. Just put on

some Observation List or ignored all together with an alibi they didn't check. This list is endless! How many time have we heard them say that if only they arrested them then, they could have saved many lives?

But when the same thing happens in Thailand, it all of a sudden becomes part of a Grand Conspiracy Theory Plot, for

the President of this Country, and his Highest Generals, to frame 2 Poor Innocent Migrant Worker Boys for a Crime, when they did not have to frame anyone. Just say they left the Island and Thailand and end of story.

Goldbugger, Why ru so concerned about this case? All u seem to been doing last few days is criticize and argue with 0ther peoples comments. Trying to make out that u are right on every issue, u only get ur info from the media an

newspapers the same as all of us. I too have been following this case from day 1. And yes i do live in thailand for

quite a long time. Iam also from London in Uk so i know a fair bit about our police force & legal system. Are u american by any chance?

So why dont u just wait an see when the trial (not trail as u keep calling it) comes about, instead of bickering an

trying to prove ur right all the time with everybody else. U dont know anymore than most of us here about this case.

U must hav a sad life if all u do all day is sit in front of ur computer in ur little room here (thats even

if u reside here) sending argumentative posts to certain tv membersAn just for ur info i dont think the burmese guys had anything to do with it as most of us here think the same.

But im not going to get into any discussion with u about it as i have certainly got much better things to be getting

on with. As taking my gf out for sunday lunch in jomtien.

Goodbye Goldbugger, sorry i mean Goldbuggy.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Sooo Upto Me

[boomerangutang]

You do know that they were cleared when they checked 300 or more Burmese workers.

They volunteered to give their DNA which was a non-Match.

After their arrest and police interrogation in a "safe house" they checked once more, this time it matched....

dna.jpg

Every time this comes up I ask for a source stating that they their samples were cleared before their arrest.

So far nothing, though it doesn't stop that straw from being passed along to be clutched.

The reason why My Friend as the date they are referring to was September 16th. At that time they did not even know Hannah was Raped yet as it was only 1 or 2 days after the discovery of the Bodies. So, they also did not have her DNA Samples until almost a week later, and no earlier the September 20th. Now here is were we get lost in the translation.

They were held for questioning, DNA Samples taken (like 200 or 300 hundred people later) and cleared of all charges (weren't arrested or charged with a crime yet). So sure! They had no proof then and they didn't even have the sperm samples form Hannah yet, so how could they charge anyone yet, unless they admitted to the crime.

Many Mass Murders where question by Police first and let go soon afterwards, due to a lack of evidence. Just put on some Observation List or ignored all together with an alibi they didn't check. This list is endless! How many time have we heard them say that if only they arrested them then, they could have saved many lives?

But when the same thing happens in Thailand, it all of a sudden becomes part of a Grand Conspiracy Theory Plot, for the President of this Country, and his Highest Generals, to frame 2 Poor Innocent Migrant Worker Boys for a Crime, when they did not have to frame anyone. Just say they left the Island and Thailand and end of story.

Methinks thou protesteth and jumpeth through loops too much. Give yourself a break. You're trying so hard to make a point that you twist yourself in gordian knots. Give a man enough rope, and he'll........

[GOLDBUGGY]

Did I say it was Hannah's Blood? I believe it was the person questioning about the shirt who mentioned that. I never said it was Davids or Hannah's. I just said a shirt was mentioned as evidence, where you and others didn't believe me and said I made that up. So I proved to you I did not make it up by linking you to a Media Report.

an earlier post. . . . .

It was after further investigation when they found David's Cell phone with one of the accused. Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's.

It sounds, in the quote above, that you're claiming the blood on the shirt was Hannah's. It's important, in these discussions, to try and be precise.

That issue will become more important, when the trial starts in a few days. It will be a particularly prickly issue, because no recording devices are allowed in the courtroom (except, perhaps, the judges' recording device). No cameras or video recording. The summations from each day's hours-long sessions rely, largely, on the judges' memory. Thai people are also known to play loose with pronouns (omitting them) and verb tenses (most things are said in present tense). There's a lot of inferrence/assumptions when Thais speak to each other. It's not a language suited for precision.

Written Thai doesn't have capital letters to accentuate names and places, and doesn't have hardly any punctuation to discern where a sentence starts and ends. As if that's not enough, there are language issues. The two defendents are Burmese, the court is Thai, and the 2nd third or fourth generation translations will be in English, French, Spanish, other Burmese dialects, and perhaps dozens of other languages. The world's press is interested in this trial. The case and its screw-ups have already been reported in major newspapers ww, and Time magazine, ....in over a dozen languages.

Will the court be ready? Probably not.

Well, the more I read about this case the more twists and turns I seen in it. Reminds me of driving a car in Crete and through the Mountains. They have a speed limit, but you can never quite reach it.

I to hope at least they get a fair trial and everything comes out clean. If they can't prove guilt beyond any reasonable doubt then let them go.

[GOLDBUGGY]

A New twist to this case was on the night of the Rape and Murders, two of David's British Friends apparently showed up at the same Bar at 4 am with Blood on a Guitar on bodies. Or according to the defense team. When asked they said they were in a motorbike accident. I forgot to save the Link but check the accused Lawyers Name and Google that and you will find this.

The next day, 2 guys approached one of these guys 9who he called mafia) and said they knew it was him. That if he did not confess to this crime they would kill him. He fled the island but I do not know if they got DNA from him yet. Only know they wanted some.

The other guy in the accident was Davids Best Friend. These are the 2 British Subjects the defense wants to bring back for further questioning.

Another twist is that they found a Blond Hair not belonging to Hannah in her dead hand. I don't know if it was David's. I do know it could not belong to either of the accuses.

This has become a real mystery!

[boomerangutang]

Well, the more I read about this case the more twists and turns I seen in it.

Many of the twists and turns were fabricated by Thai officials, and also attributible to their hiding evidence, not looking for evidence, discounting evidence or simply just not thinking to look for certain things.

If Thai officials had done a remotely professional job, there would not be so much controversy swirling around. Similarly, if Brit officials would do their jobs, it would clear things up.

[berybert]

A New twist to this case was on the night of the Rape and Murders, two of David's British Friends apparently showed up at the same Bar at 4 am with Blood on a Guitar on bodies. Or according to the defense team. When asked they said they were in a motorbike accident. I forgot to save the Link but check the accused Lawyers Name and Google that and you will find this.

The next day, 2 guys approached one of these guys 9who he called mafia) and said they knew it was him. That if he did not confess to this crime they would kill him. He fled the island but I do not know if they got DNA from him yet. Only know they wanted some.

The other guy in the accident was Davids Best Friend. These are the 2 British Subjects the defense wants to bring back for further questioning.

Another twist is that they found a Blond Hair not belonging to Hannah in her dead hand. I don't know if it was David's. I do know it could not belong to either of the accuses.

This has become a real mystery!

What ! You mean the two people you are calling dirty murdering scum might not be dirty murdering scum ?

Don't forget about the Thai defamation laws.

Maybe you will be taking their place in a cell once it is vacated.

[sambum]

IslandLover

I have already Linked the Gangster Chatting up Hannah in the Bar. It is on page 7 near the bottom. If you are too lazy to read it, or can't, then fine. But please don't accuse someone for not provided this information that is already here. That makes you a Liar.

This next Link indicates that a blood stains and shirt as Physical Evidence. It doesn't go on to much in detail about it, but does mention the shirt. A lot of the web sites concerning evidence are now blocked, for good reason, so it is difficult to find. But then you wouldn't know that as you never check anything. But this one does mention the shirt.

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/04/thailand-court-grants-evidence-review-for-pair-accused-of-brit-murders/

GOLDBUGGY

I am not too lazy to read, nor am I a liar. I've read virtually every press report (in Thai, Burmese and English) connected with this case since last September and I read the reports contained in the links you provided ages ago. As you well know, the story about Hannah being harrassed by gangsters in the AC bar has been vehemently denied by the Thai authorities and no real eyewitnesses have come forward to actually confirm it - not even the travelling companions of David and Hannah. In addition, the rumoured photograph of said altercation has never surfaced. This is why I'm surprised you are claiming that it is true.

Regarding the t-shirt, it has only been mentioned in the context of the judge allowing the defence team to independently examine the DNA evidence (order given at the court hearing on 30th April 2015, which was later rescinded). Nowhere in any press report does it say that it was Hannah's blood on this t-shirt and it could just as easily have been David's.

Please stop stating unfounded rumours/hearsay/questionable press reporting as FACTS. You know no more about this case and the actual evidence against the accused than any of us do on this forum. Let's hope the forthcoming trial will shed some light on it.

Did I say it was Hannah's Blood? I believe it was the person questioning about the shirt who mentioned that. I never said it was Davids or Hannah's. I just said a shirt was mentioned as evidence, where you and others didn't believe me and said I made that up. So I proved to you I did not make it up by linking you to a Media Report.

You also said I made this up about the gangster chatting up Hannah in the bar, so again I showed you by media link this was mentioned also. That again I did not make this up.Although I believe you made it up about a Police report stating this never happened.

So since I proved to all I did not make this up, it is so ludicrous for you now to try and make me prove this actually happened or didn't. I didn't write these News Articles. Talk to the people who did, to find that out. I only said it was reported when you said t wasn't. So I proved by both Links I did not make this up and it was reported.

So you lose as you were wrong! Take your Defeat with Grace and walk away. End of Discussion!

"So you lose as you were wrong! Take your Defeat with Grace and walk away. End of Discussion!"

Here we go again with your confrontational comments! I didn't realise it was a competition!

And by the way, in case you didn't know :-

Is the noun "liar" considered offensive? - English Language & Usage

english.stackexchange.com/questions/9561/is-the-noun-liar-considered-offensive-would-it-be-offensive-to-use-it-with-a

Jan 21, 2011 ... Calling someone a liar is making a very aggressive statement.

Edited July 5, 2015 by sambum

[Sooo Upto Me]

IslandLover

I have already Linked the Gangster Chatting up Hannah in the Bar. It is on page 7 near the bottom. If you are too lazy to read it, or can't, then fine. But please don't accuse someone for not provided this information that is already here. That makes you a Liar.

This next Link indicates that a blood stains and shirt as Physical Evidence. It doesn't go on to much in detail about it, but does mention the shirt. A lot of the web sites concerning evidence are now blocked, for good reason, so it is difficult to find. But then you wouldn't know that as you never check anything. But this one does mention the shirt.

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/04/thailand-court-grants-evidence-review-for-pair-accused-of-brit-murders/

GOLDBUGGY

I am not too lazy to read, nor am I a liar. I've read virtually every press report (in Thai, Burmese and English) connected with this case since last September and I read the reports contained in the links you provided ages ago. As you well know, the story about Hannah being harrassed by gangsters in the AC bar has been vehemently denied by the Thai authorities and no real eyewitnesses have come forward to actually confirm it - not even the travelling companions of David and Hannah. In addition, the rumoured photograph of said altercation has never surfaced. This is why I'm surprised you are claiming that it is true.

Regarding the t-shirt, it has only been mentioned in the context of the judge allowing the defence team to independently examine the DNA evidence (order given at the court hearing on 30th April 2015, which was later rescinded). Nowhere in any press report does it say that it was Hannah's blood on this t-shirt and it could just as easily have been David's.

Please stop stating unfounded rumours/hearsay/questionable press reporting as FACTS. You know no more about this case and the actual evidence against the accused than any of us do on this forum. Let's hope the forthcoming trial will shed some light on it.

Did I say it was Hannah's Blood? I believe it was the person questioning about the shirt who mentioned that. I never said it was Davids or Hannah's. I just said a shirt was mentioned as evidence, where you and others didn't believe me and said I made that up. So I proved to you I did not make it up by linking you to a Media Report.

You also said I made this up about the gangster chatting up Hannah in the bar, so again I showed you by media link this was mentioned also. That again I did not make this up.Although I believe you made it up about a Police report stating this never happened.

So since I proved to all I did not make this up, it is so ludicrous for you now to try and make me prove this actually happened or didn't. I didn't write these News Articles. Talk to the people who did, to find that out. I only said it was reported when you said t wasn't. So I proved by both Links I did not make this up and it was reported.

So you lose as you were wrong! Take your Defeat with Grace and walk away. End of Discussion!

"So you lose as you were wrong! Take your Defeat with Grace and walk away. End of Discussion!"

Here we go again! I didn't realise it was a competition!

I know, its pathetic isn't it.

Its like being bac at school again. He just wont give up (Goldbugger).

[IslandLover]

Did I say it was Hannah's Blood? I believe it was the person questioning about the shirt who mentioned that. I never said it was Davids or Hannah's. I just said a shirt was mentioned as evidence, where you and others didn't believe me and said I made that up. So I proved to you I did not make it up by linking you to a Media Report.

an earlier post. . . . .

It was after further investigation when they found David's Cell phone with one of the accused. Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's.

It sounds, in the quote above, that you're claiming the blood on the shirt was Hannah's. It's important, in these discussions, to try and be precise.

That issue will become more important, when the trial starts in a few days. It will be a particularly prickly issue, because no recording devices are allowed in the courtroom (except, perhaps, the judges' recording device). No cameras or video recording. The summations from each day's hours-long sessions rely, largely, on the judges' memory. Thai people are also known to play loose with pronouns (omitting them) and verb tenses (most things are said in present tense). There's a lot of inferrence/assumptions when Thais speak to each other. It's not a language suited for precision.

Written Thai doesn't have capital letters to accentuate names and places, and doesn't have hardly any punctuation to discern where a sentence starts and ends. As if that's not enough, there are language issues. The two defendents are Burmese, the court is Thai, and the 2nd third or fourth generation translations will be in English, French, Spanish, other Burmese dialects, and perhaps dozens of other languages. The world's press is interested in this trial. The case and its screw-ups have already been reported in major newspapers ww, and Time magazine, ....in over a dozen languages.

Will the court be ready? Probably not.

Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's.

Thanks, Boomer, for clarifying that. It saved me the trouble of wading through all his verbiage (or should that be garbage?) to find that very statement - which would have been kinda hard work since I have him on ignore .

Edited July 5, 2015 by IslandLover

[StealthEnergiser]

This is when Mon was interviewed : sept 2014

who is lying Sean Mon or the Spa Employeee ?

September 24, 2014

But Montriwat discredited the Briton’s claim saying in fact on the night of the murder an employee of a spa has told him she helped to wash and clean blood from the face and body of Mr Sean who is a friend of the murdered David Miller.

He said he asked Mr Sean about the blood on his face and body and insisted on asking where he was that night.

Mr Sean claimed he did not go out anywhere but slept in the room, Montriwat said.

‘This is very suspicious,’ Montriwat told reporters while insisting in his innocence.

He also said another man in the picture posted by Mr Sean is in fact a police officer who is his friend.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/new-twist-murder-two-brits-koh-tao

Edited July 5, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[boomerangutang]

This is when Mon was interviewed : sept 2014

who is lying Sean Mon or the Spa Employeee ?

September 24, 2014

But Montriwat discredited the Briton’s claim saying in fact on the night of the murder an employee of a spa has told him she helped to wash and clean blood from the face and body of Mr Sean who is a friend of the murdered David Miller.

He said he asked Mr Sean about the blood on his face and body and insisted on asking where he was that night.

Mr Sean claimed he did not go out anywhere but slept in the room, Montriwat said.

‘This is very suspicious,’ Montriwat told reporters while insisting in his innocence.

He also said another man in the picture posted by Mr Sean is in fact a police officer who is his friend.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/new-twist-murder-two-brits-koh-tao

Yet another of the dozens of topics relating to the crime, which will probably have a gag order imposed upon it by the judge.

.....which will bring smiles and nods of approval by the prosecution team.

Perhaps more important, to the prosecution (than getting a guilty verdict) is continuing to shield anyone connected to the Headman's family and friends. That would entail a continuing black-out of any mention of those former prime suspects, or any mention of data/activity/evidence pertaining to them.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Well, the more I read about this case the more twists and turns I seen in it.

Many of the twists and turns were fabricated by Thai officials, and also attributible to their hiding evidence, not looking for evidence, discounting evidence or simply just not thinking to look for certain things.

If Thai officials had done a remotely professional job, there would not be so much controversy swirling around. Similarly, if Brit officials would do their jobs, it would clear things up.

I agree with you in part at least that from the start they did not handle this case very well at all. I was one of the first to say here they should have stopped everyone from leaving the island as soon as they discovered the murders and secured the crime scene. Then there was all those Media Reports which seemed to come out daily and where they seemed to contradict themselves and their reports almost daily. How many times did they say they were sure they had the murders?

I may even go so far as to say that they may have discounted evidence and perhaps should have looked deeper into some things they knew about. Hell! I am in such a good mood today I may even go along with that they went over the accepted limits in obtaining the confessions. But when you talk about Fabricating Evidence, this entirely a different kettle of fish.

For one thing Fabricating Evidence is against the law and has serious consequences. If caught you would be given an automatic loss of job for life and a Mandatory Jail Sentence. That is pretty serious isn't it? I agree that Fabricating some Evidence, but not all, would be easy to do. A Police Man planting a cell phone in the accused residence would be easy enough to do. "Hey Chief!" "Look what I found!". But when you start including some very higher up Ranking Generals, and a reputable Forensic's Lab in Bangkok, and all there people working there, this is a completely different story.

I mean if they were after some Drug Lord or Gangster like Al Capone, I might believe that they would twist the truth a little bit. Maybe even plant some evidence. But for 2 poor Migrant Workers? For Heavens Sake Why? To Save Face? You and I both know that during the first few weeks of this investigation, and until the first general was replace, they lost so much credibility in this case (Face) that they could never recover from that now. That is why so many people are all still talking about these blunders today.

Now the next General could have used these first blunders to get right out of this mess and cover the part where the sun never shines, but he doesn't. He could have easily said that the all DNA Testing of everyone on the Island is complete with no DNA match. So the culprits must have left the Island and Thailand already and we have no way to prove this case. Which if those 2 British Guys have anything to do with these murders, as the defense claims, it could be close to the truth. Even if the Mafia did pay the Police off to clear there people as many here claim, then the Police could still have taken the money, cleared their people, but still said the same thing. So that just doesn't hold water as I think everyone here would agree that these Mafia Guys, if they exist, weren't trying to frame 2 Migrant Workers.

There is no losing Face in that this case could not be solved, is there? Or at least more than they lost already. After all, Scotland Yard never did catch Jack the Ripper did they? The FBI Special Task Forces never caught the Zodiac Killer either. So what is just one more unsolved case? There must be thousands out there unsolved, and I am sure quite a few in Thailand to. Sure there was media pressure to solve this case, but by telling everyone the culprits skipped town would have relieve this pressure long ago.

But in the height of all this Media Attention and Frenzy, and in the first few days of October, the Police Announce that they have found the killers and that the 2 accused are being held in custody. But instead of relieving this Media Pressure, it only added more fuel to the fire. Some Media started reporting a conspiracy theory and using terms like Scapegoats. Now this was either the craziest think I have ever read, or by far the largest of all the police blunders. I am not sure which. But by them sticking their neck out so far with this news made me think that perhaps they really do have a case here, and the murderers.

We can kick this thing back and forth and forever and never really get any farther then we are today. I am not trying to change anyone's mind here about anything. It wouldn't matter to the case even if I did. If they want to believe some Conspiracy Theory then this is fine to. But at least they should understand the consequence for doing so.

It just Bugs me to no end when people post this here but make it sound equal to stealing a Chocolate Bar in a Candy Shop and with no serious consequences. Falsifying Evidence is a very serious Criminal Offence! Is it easy to do? If anyone here really wanted to kill someone, would that not be easy to do also? Baring the President of the United States. Being easy doesn't make it plausible!

The way I see this ending is not a good one. If the Prosecution's Evidence holds up in Court, and at this moment in time I don't see many reasons why not, other than perhaps throwing out the Confessions, the Defenses is going to have a tough go proving Reasonable Doubt. Of course if the Defense can retest the DNA and find that it does not match the accused then it is a different Ball Game. But if the DNA Tests presented to the Court by the Prosecution meets the standards and guidelines as Submissible Evidence, they may not get a chance to do another Independent DNA Test.

So without this, there only hope then is a Credible Eye Witness. A Relative or a Friend of the accused won't cut it unless they can back their statement with another sources or something like that. A guy on the motorbike who claims to have seen the Rape may not be much help either, unless he saw who these people were and can identify them. With a half moon that night, which could have set during the time of the murders, and only his Motorbike Head Light for a source of light, probably from a distance, it would be easy for the Prosecution to disclaim anything he saw on that dark night.

The Defense I understand has 31 witnesses they want to bring to trail. But they are stilling looking for people to come forward if they heard or seen anything. So I believe they are still looking for a Credible Eye Witness who witnessed this crime, to come forward. With the DNA Test Results on the Prosecutors side, and other circumstantial evidence, unless the defense can counter this with their own test results, or an eye witness, their ship is sunk.

So if you were on the defense team, and if this was true, how would you handle the case? Would you fight to the bitter end and risk the Death Penalty, with hopes on more success on your appeals, or would you try to cut a deal with the Prosecution, pleading Guilty and taking the Life In Prison instead. Or if you were one of the accused would you fight or take the deal if it is offered? This is of course just pure speculation as that Prosecution may not even offer a deal.

In my view, they will either plead guilty some time after the trial starts, and get 99 years each in prison, or fight it and lose, and get the Death Penalty. Both of which doesn't look to good for them. But again, just pure speculation on my part. So I truly hope they get a fare trial and have a chance to make their case.

[GOLDBUGGY]

IslandLover

I have already Linked the Gangster Chatting up Hannah in the Bar. It is on page 7 near the bottom. If you are too lazy to read it, or can't, then fine. But please don't accuse someone for not provided this information that is already here. That makes you a Liar.

This next Link indicates that a blood stains and shirt as Physical Evidence. It doesn't go on to much in detail about it, but does mention the shirt. A lot of the web sites concerning evidence are now blocked, for good reason, so it is difficult to find. But then you wouldn't know that as you never check anything. But this one does mention the shirt.

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/04/thailand-court-grants-evidence-review-for-pair-accused-of-brit-murders/

GOLDBUGGY

I am not too lazy to read, nor am I a liar. I've read virtually every press report (in Thai, Burmese and English) connected with this case since last September and I read the reports contained in the links you provided ages ago. As you well know, the story about Hannah being harrassed by gangsters in the AC bar has been vehemently denied by the Thai authorities and no real eyewitnesses have come forward to actually confirm it - not even the travelling companions of David and Hannah. In addition, the rumoured photograph of said altercation has never surfaced. This is why I'm surprised you are claiming that it is true.

Regarding the t-shirt, it has only been mentioned in the context of the judge allowing the defence team to independently examine the DNA evidence (order given at the court hearing on 30th April 2015, which was later rescinded). Nowhere in any press report does it say that it was Hannah's blood on this t-shirt and it could just as easily have been David's.

Please stop stating unfounded rumours/hearsay/questionable press reporting as FACTS. You know no more about this case and the actual evidence against the accused than any of us do on this forum. Let's hope the forthcoming trial will shed some light on it.

Did I say it was Hannah's Blood? I believe it was the person questioning about the shirt who mentioned that. I never said it was Davids or Hannah's. I just said a shirt was mentioned as evidence, where you and others didn't believe me and said I made that up. So I proved to you I did not make it up by linking you to a Media Report.

You also said I made this up about the gangster chatting up Hannah in the bar, so again I showed you by media link this was mentioned also. That again I did not make this up.Although I believe you made it up about a Police report stating this never happened.

So since I proved to all I did not make this up, it is so ludicrous for you now to try and make me prove this actually happened or didn't. I didn't write these News Articles. Talk to the people who did, to find that out. I only said it was reported when you said t wasn't. So I proved by both Links I did not make this up and it was reported.

So you lose as you were wrong! Take your Defeat with Grace and walk away. End of Discussion!

"So you lose as you were wrong! Take your Defeat with Grace and walk away. End of Discussion!"

Here we go again with your confrontational comments! I didn't realise it was a competition!

And by the way, in case you didn't know :-

Is the noun "liar" considered offensive? - English Language & Usage

english.stackexchange.com/questions/9561/is-the-noun-liar-considered-offensive-would-it-be-offensive-to-use-it-with-a

Jan 21, 2011 ... Calling someone a liar is making a very aggressive statement.

And with your attacking posts that got me started with you in the first place, and you saying I was making all this up. What does that make me then? A Tooth Fairy?

[GOLDBUGGY]

You do know that they were cleared when they checked 300 or more Burmese workers.

They volunteered to give their DNA which was a non-Match.

After their arrest and police interrogation in a "safe house" they checked once more, this time it matched....

dna.jpg

Every time this comes up I ask for a source stating that they their samples were cleared before their arrest.

So far nothing, though it doesn't stop that straw from being passed along to be clutched.

The reason why My Friend as the date they are referring to was September 16th. At that time they did not even know Hannah was Raped yet as it was only 1 or 2 days after the discovery of the Bodies. So, they also did not have her DNA Samples until almost a week later, and no earlier the September 20th. Now here is were we get lost in

the translation.

They were held for questioning, DNA Samples taken (like 200 or 300 hundred people later) and cleared of all charges (weren't arrested or charged with a crime yet). So sure! They had no proof then and they didn't even have the sperm samples form Hannah yet, so how could they charge anyone yet, unless they admitted to the crime.

Many Mass Murders where question by Police first and let go soon afterwards, due to a lack of evidence. Just put on

some Observation List or ignored all together with an alibi they didn't check. This list is endless! How many time have we heard them say that if only they arrested them then, they could have saved many lives?

But when the same thing happens in Thailand, it all of a sudden becomes part of a Grand Conspiracy Theory Plot, for

the President of this Country, and his Highest Generals, to frame 2 Poor Innocent Migrant Worker Boys for a Crime, when they did not have to frame anyone. Just say they left the Island and Thailand and end of story.

Goldbugger, Why ru so concerned about this case? All u seem to been doing last few days is criticize and argue with 0ther peoples comments. Trying to make out that u are right on every issue, u only get ur info from the media an

newspapers the same as all of us. I too have been following this case from day 1. And yes i do live in thailand for

quite a long time. Iam also from London in Uk so i know a fair bit about our police force & legal system. Are u american by any chance?

So why dont u just wait an see when the trial (not trail as u keep calling it) comes about, instead of bickering an

trying to prove ur right all the time with everybody else. U dont know anymore than most of us here about this case.

U must hav a sad life if all u do all day is sit in front of ur computer in ur little room here (thats even

if u reside here) sending argumentative posts to certain tv membersAn just for ur info i dont think the burmese guys had anything to do with it as most of us here think the same.

But im not going to get into any discussion with u about it as i have certainly got much better things to be getting

on with. As taking my gf out for sunday lunch in jomtien.

Goodbye Goldbugger, sorry i mean Goldbuggy.

Dontt worry about it UpYours.