HIV testing

[yorkshiremotors]

Hello,

I am no doubt going to get ripped apart for this thread but its been on my mind since last week when I made a very stupid mistake,

To cut a long story short, I went out with some mates and ended up drinking half a bottle of red label along with about 6 chang beers, anyway I ended up going home with a bar girl and although I do not remember much I know we had unprotected sex, I have since spoken to this girl and expressed how bad I feel for taking her home in such a manor as paying for sex isnt usually my bag (I have been in Thailand 5 years and always resisted) yet that night I was in a bit of a crazy mood and the night took me with it. She told me we did have unprotected sex and I asked her why she did not insist we use some protection and isnt she scared? she simple said no she isn't scared because 'she is clean'. I do recall kind of mentioning protection before the event but as we both did not have anything things quickly went into action if you get me...

Now that said I simply cannot take her word for it as it is playing on my mind none stop, I have read on the net you have to wait up to 3 months to get a result and I don't think I can go on like this for 3 months with the unknown, its really beating me down. I feel shit for taking advantage of her for money as she is a nice girl but I also feel stupid for myself for allowing myself to have unprotected sex with someone I had just met... all in all I feel like a complete idiot.

I was wondering if there is any over the counter test I can buy? I know in the UK you can buy such things but I am wondering if you can here in say boots or watsons? I know it will not give me 100% results with it only being last week but anything would help now. I have also said to the girl I would pay for whatever to get her checked out although I know I am fully clean but its not fair to only care about myself in this situation.

Anyway, please don't dig me about this as I already feel really low about it all although I probably deserve it, I feel a bit emotionally stupid as well as I always try to have a drink etc with bar girls but never am one to take them home if you get me, alcohol took me with it... can anyone advise any help or anything I can do quickly to get this off my mind? I am thinking about flying back to the UK and getting a test done there for free but then again if there is something I can buy here OTC or an easy way of getting a test I would do that, I live in Khon Kean.

Cheers

Danny

[brewsterbudgen]

Just go to a hospital and get tested. The chances of getting HIV from one incident are very very low, but do it if it makes you feel better. There's a far higher chance of contracting a (treatable) STD like gonorrhea or chlamydia.

[Sheryl]

Theer is nothing yo ucan buy over the counter. Antibody based tests (the usual type) do need abouyt 3 months (6 to be completely reliable) but there is another type of test that is accurate after 2 weeks, as it tests not for antibodies (which take time to form) but rather fr the actual virus. Called a PCR test and expensive, but there is a similiar version called NAT which you get at no added charge by having an HIV test done at the Red Cross Anonymous Clinic. Basically a NAT is like a PCR except that they test a batch of blood samples together and then if positive do them one by one. Since the batches are usually negative, this d=saves a lot of money over doing a PCR on each sample.

The Red Cross clinic will also test you for other STDs and exposure to Hep B, which if you have not been immunized is also a concern. If you are in Bangkok suggest you go there, see the pinned HIV thread for details. Alternatively you could go to a large private hospital and request a PCR. Will however in either case need to give it 2 weeks.

Your level of risk for HIV is low; first of all, it only exists if she was HIV+, and then the rate of transmission from a single exposure is small. But not of course zero. Hep B is actually easier to transmit. And of course there is chlamydia, gonorrhea etc to consider, though these will usually be symptomatic.

[BudRight]

Well, you could persuade her to get an HIV test and share the results with you. You should accompany her to do this if you decide to go with this plan.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

yeah.... I'd be more worried about other "small" stuff than HIV.

[yorkshiremotors]

yeah.... I'd be more worried about other "small" stuff than HIV.

Not really, atleast other stuff can be cured and wont kill you...

Thanks for the replies all, especially useful info Sheryl... I am in Khon Kean hopefully the hospital here can help, dont fancy waiting 3 months like this,

Thanks

[Sheryl]

Well, you could persuade her to get an HIV test and share the results with you. You should accompany her to do this if you decide to go with this plan.

If the usual antibody test, a negative result this doesn't rule out her having HIV. People are most infectious in the initial stages of having contacted the virus, before antibodies have formed. She'd have to get a PCR test to rule out early infection..in which case he might as well get that for himself.

[Sheryl]

yeah.... I'd be more worried about other "small" stuff than HIV.

Not really, atleast other stuff can be cured and wont kill you...

Thanks for the replies all, especially useful info Sheryl... I am in Khon Kean hopefully the hospital here can help, dont fancy waiting 3 months like this,

Thanks

KKU Hospital can surely do a PCR but being a government hospital will likely not agree to do it under these circumstances as protocol is to wait 3 months and have the less expensive antibody test. I don't know if the private hospitals in KK have the capacity to do PCR but you can certainly ask. See an Infectious Disease specialist (and while at it, get screened for Hep B antigen). If all else fails, come to Bangkok and go to the RC.

[yorkshiremotors]

Hello Sheryl,

Excuse me I am new to forums but thnx for your replies you have been really helpful.

I am considering flying to BKK and going to the http://en.trcarc.org/

Please can you help: I appreciate I should wait some months before getting a proper test results, yet I want to get a test now to put my mind at rest. If I go to this clinic and explain the situation which happended I believe now around 2 weeks ago maybe slightly longer. Are they able to give me a quick turn around test?

I see http://203.155.87.152/Homepage/?page_id=632

But I do not really understand all this.... do you know which option I need? also if the test should take longer than a day to get the results, would they email me the results for confidentiality rather than post as I will have to fly back?

After spending days on end reading on the internet, my mind is a little at rest as most say having sex with a girl unprotected is quite a low chance of catching this but then I think as she is a bar girl willing to have unprotected sex, how many other guys has she done that with if you know what I mean?

Really, I just want to go to this clinic get the quickest test and although I appreciate this is not 100% confirmation its at-least something to put my mind at rest until the 3 months wait in which I will go to a hospital/clinic in the UK where things are much easier to explain etc to my doctor.

So to summaries my questions:

1. on that list which is the test I want for the quick results given how long ago it happended

2. am I ok to just turn up

3. will they give me the results quickly that day or will they be able to email me them if its a longer period

If the test comes back clear, I will breath a semi sigh of relief but not 100% untill I get properly tested in around 2 months time in the UK. If it comes back bad news at-least i can both alert the girl and plan what my options are.

I am sorry to hassle you with my questions, I am just very oblivious to all this and it is putting a massive strain on my mind with worry, I also notice they have no real contact email address on there contact us page.

Thank you so much

[mommysboy]

It's extremely unlikely. Probably not worth getting a test. Your anxiety, and guilt seems to be the issue more than a notional threat of HIV.

[yorkshiremotors]

It's extremely unlikely. Probably not worth getting a test. Your anxiety, and guilt seems to be the issue more than a notional threat of HIV.

Agreed, I do feel guilty, right or wrong, in my personal opinion I do not agree with having sex with a girl for money... I made a stupid mistake, and one I will probably not forgive myself for some time. These ladies sure egg you on for it, but really they want money to feed there kids and family, and as far as I am concerned I took advantage of that. I also believe that having sex with girls for money leads to human trafficking and misery.... yes I might be looking at it too deep and yes its my opinion so I do not want to cause offense to others who are OK with it but this is how I feel.

I make no excuses for myself although I was drunk and do not remember pretty much anything but at the same time if this was my daughter/sister and some falang took her home for sex for money they would be dead by now.

All in all, its taught my alot about my own morals and how I plan to lay down my own morals in the future... I have many many mates who lay Thai women for money, and I am quite open with them and say I do not agree with it, they give me stick back but we usually agree to disagree, now I have done it I am getting flack off them big time which is fair enough.

All in all I know some of these girls seem act like they want to have some fun, but I think deep down they do not want to be used like this and hope for an out and a proper man.

Anyway I guess the above is besides the point and not really relevant to some extent yet I would like to get a test done to clear my mind, then I can move onto repairing my guilt. I have already been out with this bar girl twice and explained how I feel and took her for a few romantic meals plus we went to the market and did a bit of shopping, we are generally gelling as mates which is good, I will see how it goes and hopefully something might come of it... either way she has explained to me she is actually only init for the money to support her parents which I myself support my parents albeit earning money in a less sadistic way, I am not obviously going to fall for her on a monetary basis nor become her ATM machine but she seems genuine hopefully I can make her happy and get her out of the sex for money situation she is in.

Speaking to various people in Thailand, some think paying for sex is normal and not a problem, although some like myself find it not right and seedy... when i dwell onit, all I think about is if it was my daughter I would be very upset.

Ramble over and no offense caused to anyone here, everyone's opinions are different.

Sheryl if you do get a spare tick pls could you answer my post a few up.

Ta

Danny

[EmptyHead]

OK, so what Sheryl said, basically.

Get a NAAT test. It is considered, by experts on HIV from around the world, virtually 100% accurate and reliable at 11 days from your exposure.

You can get one in Bangkok at the Thai Red Cross Anonymous Clinic for a couple of hundred baht, or at the Silom Community Clinic for free. The results take 3 days and 10 days at each of these clinics, respectively (the last time I checked). They will contact you by phone if you are positive with the NAAT test.

The antibody results are given right away, though those (on their own) are virtually meaningless at 11 days.

Just fly there and turn up, that's it.

Also, it is highly unlikely that you got HIV from just one exposure of vaginal sex. If she was positive, the odds (as calculate by experts) are somewhere between 1 in a 1000 and 1 in 2000. If she wasn't positive, the risk is zero obviously.

Then you have to factor in the chances of her having it in the first place. It is thought that female sex workers in Thailand have between a less than 1% - 5% HIV positive prevalence, probably less that 1% in most places.

So, even at 5% prevalence and even if it were 1 in 1000 risk per exposure to the virus, that's a total risk of 1 in 20,000 (that she had the virus and you got it from one exposure of vaginal sex). This is the worst case scenario for you. But 1 in 20,000 odds are not too bad.

The best case odds (less than 1% prevalence among female sex workers in Thailand and the 1 in 2000 chances of you getting it from a single exposure of vaginal sex) are greater than 1 in 200,000.

So, basically, your chances of getting infected from the exposure you describe are between "1 in 20,000" and "1 in 200,000".

So, while HIV is a serious thing, I suggest you don't worry yourself too much about the real risks if this exposure and for peace of mind sake fly to BKK and get the NAAT test on day 11 after your encounter. This will give you virtually 100% proof (well, technically greater than 99.99% proof).

If you don't want to pay a fortune, go to one of the clinics I mentioned.

According to Dr Hunter Handsfield MD, who is one of the world's leading experts on HIV transmission and won an award for his work in the field, "The chances of getting HIV from a single exposure of vaginal sex are less than the chances of getting killed by lightening in your entire lifetime or getting killed in a road accident this week (if you are in the US)."

The above statistics I gave on the prevalence of HIV among Thai female sex workers came from him as well as chances of getting it from a single exposure of vaginal sex, though that data is pretty well known around the world. Even if you ask the Thai Red Cross Anonymous Clinic, they give the exact same data.

The Thai Red Cross Clinic is also a HIV-NAAT Research Center and is affiliated with western HIV research centers and they are very up to date and cutting edge. As well as the Silom Community Clinic which is also a research center funded by an organization in the USA and equally cutting edge. You can trust them both.

So, I suggest you relax and just go for a test for peace of mind purposes.

If you don't want to travel to BKK, then any standard antibody test will do, after 6 weeks your results are above 99% reliable, but you have to wait 12 weeks for 100% with the antibody alone test.

[mommysboy]

Take it easy Danny. I mean if you are on a bus today and a rather wretched soul coughs near you, will you torture yourself over whether to have a TB test or not?

Strikes me the only bug you might have is the love bug. Is there a chance you are a bit smitten. You seemed to have enjoyed yourself! Nothing wrong with that.

[Sheryl]

Hello Sheryl,

Excuse me I am new to forums but thnx for your replies you have been really helpful.

I am considering flying to BKK and going to the http://en.trcarc.org/

Please can you help: I appreciate I should wait some months before getting a proper test results, yet I want to get a test now to put my mind at rest. If I go to this clinic and explain the situation which happended I believe now around 2 weeks ago maybe slightly longer. Are they able to give me a quick turn around test?

I see http://203.155.87.152/Homepage/?page_id=632

But I do not really understand all this.... do you know which option I need? also if the test should take longer than a day to get the results, would they email me the results for confidentiality rather than post as I will have to fly back?

After spending days on end reading on the internet, my mind is a little at rest as most say having sex with a girl unprotected is quite a low chance of catching this but then I think as she is a bar girl willing to have unprotected sex, how many other guys has she done that with if you know what I mean?

Really, I just want to go to this clinic get the quickest test and although I appreciate this is not 100% confirmation its at-least something to put my mind at rest until the 3 months wait in which I will go to a hospital/clinic in the UK where things are much easier to explain etc to my doctor.

So to summaries my questions:

1. on that list which is the test I want for the quick results given how long ago it happended

2. am I ok to just turn up

3. will they give me the results quickly that day or will they be able to email me them if its a longer period

If the test comes back clear, I will breath a semi sigh of relief but not 100% untill I get properly tested in around 2 months time in the UK. If it comes back bad news at-least i can both alert the girl and plan what my options are.

I am sorry to hassle you with my questions, I am just very oblivious to all this and it is putting a massive strain on my mind with worry, I also notice they have no real contact email address on there contact us page.

Thank you so much

What you want is a NAAT test which as I understand it they routinely do on all samples taken for test#1. However the same day results is only for the antibody test not the NAAT result, that takes longer. Basically what the NAAT does is similar to test #2 (HIV PCR) only it is done as a single test on all the blood samples collected combined together. Usually the result is negative. If it positive, then they have to go back and test each individual sample to find out which one(s) is generating the positive result. I don't know how long it takes to get the results but will be much longer if the batch was positive than if it was negative. You need to ask when you go there as well as discuss how you can get the NAAT result i.e. by mail, phone or do you have to go back in person. The antibody test result you'll get on the spot (maybe 2 hours later) but that doesn't mean anything so soon after exposure.

By about 2 weeks post exposure this is a definitive test, no need to get another in 2 months (that would be the antibody test, which even at 3 months is not 100% sure as some people take longer to form antibodies). The NAAT test tests for the actual presence of the virus itself, not antibodies formed to it.

In addition you should get test#2, which is for the Hep B antigen, unless you have been immunized against Hep B already. While you are there, you can get the vaccine - it is a series of shots but can get the first and then the rest back in Issan.

The TRC has very skilled counsellors who will talk to you before testing and explain all this.

[Soutpeel]

He is another thought relative to what the girl told, my understanding is a lot of working girls get free tests every 3 months, so maybe thats what she meant when she said she clean ? I think a lot of times the girls are more frightened of catching something from their clients

Edited July 14, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Sheryl]

Doesn't matter as 3 month antibody testing will not catch a very new infection and it is actually in that initial period prior to development of antibodies that a person is most infectious.

[leeham]

I didn't want to start a new thread for the question I'm about to ask (sorry for hijacking OP).....

. but can any one tell me where to get tested for chlamydia and gonorrhea with fast results?

I am aware of the Thai Red Cross Anonymous Clinic, but I read that there turn around time for chlamydia and gonorrhea screening is roughly 3 weeks?

Is there any where I can go that has a quicker turn around time?..

cheers.

[EmptyHead]

I didn't want to start a new thread for the question I'm about to ask (sorry for hijacking OP).....

. but can any one tell me where to get tested for chlamydia and gonorrhea with fast results?

I am aware of the Thai Red Cross Anonymous Clinic, but I read that there turn around time for chlamydia and gonorrhea screening is roughly 3 weeks?

Is there any where I can go that has a quicker turn around time?..

cheers.

These tests are usually not necessary (if you are male). Penile infections rarely go unnoticed, unlike vaginal or oral infections.

If 10 days have passed without any sign of discharge you can be pretty sure you don't have Gonorrhea and around 14 days for Chlamydia.

You can go to the Red Cross and ask them about it. They will most probably tell you, "These tests are expensive and if you don't have discharge, no problem"

If you do have discharge they would usually do a gram stain test (to find out if it even an STD) and then (if it is) treat you for both, since the gram stain can't differentiate between the two.

[leeham]

thanks for the reply EH .... My logic was that because I risked being exposed that maybe I can screen to make sure. I will be dropping into the Red Cross any how. cheers...

[Sheryl]

Actually chlamydia can sometimes be asymptomatic in men.

And if you risked exposure to these then you also risked exposure to HIV and Hep B so should certainly test for those.

[leeham]

Thanks Sheryl. I'm lead to believe that the thai red cross will only test for chlamydia if you display symptoms. What's your personal recommendation for a place to get a fast and realiable test for chlamydia and gonorrhea?

[maxme]

Get a blood test now and then again a few months later. During these few months refrain from having any kinds of intimacy with peeps. Fingers crossed for you.

[EmptyHead]

Get a blood test now and then again a few months later. During these few months refrain from having any kinds of intimacy with peeps. Fingers crossed for you.

There's no need to cross fingers. It isn't like he knows she has HIV for a fact, even then the risk to him would be between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 2000.

If he gets a NAAT at 11 days there is really little need for another test, except for further peace of mind, maybe. There is nobody who has ever had a false negative NAAT after 10 days (or at least it was never known or recorded).

As far as intimacy goes, anything other than unprotected penetrative sex (i.e vaginal or anal) is safe. Oral sex is no longer considered a real risk. Though, it remains a theoretical risk, just like kissing and getting semen in your eye, or saliva on an open wound.

There is no need to contribute to the irrational HIV fear that many people have, nor further the stigma. Let us rely on reason, rather than emotion.

Edited July 21, 2015 by EmptyHead

[yorkshiremotors]

Thanks for the replies all....

I have yet to get tested and thought I will sit it out then go with her... in the next week or so... as you have pointed out, the chances are very slim yet I still want to anyway and I want us both to go

I thank you all for not ripping me and giving me good solid advice.....

Take it easy Danny. I mean if you are on a bus today and a rather wretched soul coughs near you, will you torture yourself over whether to have a TB test or not?
Strikes me the only bug you might have is the love bug. Is there a chance you are a bit smitten. You seemed to have enjoyed yourself! Nothing wrong with that.

I think you must have a crystal ball or something lol we are now an item and things are going well albeit I am taking things slowly as I do not want to get in too deep, I am not blind by how some bar girls can be but at the same time I am giving her some trust everyone is different.... I have fallen in love and I believe she has too... she has stopped working at the bar and I have been helping her re-write her CV and apply for roles, one of which is looking likely for a car hire company so I hope she gets it. She has moved into my place and although some mates said I am mad to let her she is really cool and I enjoy living with her, plus I am happy in the knowledge she is not living in the squat she was knowing she is safe.... maybe I should slow down but you only live once,

All in all - I am happy I got to know her past what happened and I believe she is happy genuinely, I think she has opened up to me and we have had amazing time traveling all over Thailand for 2 weeks

Hopefully things will turn out good for us... weird thing is we have the same D.O.B so literally no age difference lol

Best of luck to you all

Ta

Danny

[fish fingers]

I'd be more worried about herpes, chlamidya and HPV. Isn't there a mouth swab available now to check people out?

[BudRight]

Take it easy Danny. I mean if you are on a bus today and a rather wretched soul coughs near you, will you torture yourself over whether to have a TB test or not?

Strikes me the only bug you might have is the love bug. Is there a chance you are a bit smitten. You seemed to have enjoyed yourself! Nothing wrong with that.

That's exactly how I got TB. Except it was a train.

HIV is not airborne though.

Edited August 3, 2015 by BudRight