SURVEY: Should Greece be allowed to remain in the Eurozone?

[ABCer]

thaigold, can you explain why in your picture of Life, Universe and Everything

- not lending any more money to Greece is treacherous abandon, immoral and condemning Greeks to 'Hell'?

- Greece leaving EU is the end of the World? May be even the end of Greece?

Why over-dramatize a very simple fact proving that the formation of EU went too far or in a wrong direction altogether?

It is not like the rest of Europe led by German Panzer Divisions is going to war against Greece. The land mass of Peloponnese is intact. The infrastructure of Greece is intact.

Many businesses will collapse. Aren't they already?

I'm sure there will be no Famine, no Civil War and no Wars with the neighbours.

What is your problem?

Surely Greeks will be in a jam. Most importantly because

- they must look for alternative for Euro (Drachma is dead and buried);

- nobody will ever trust their banks (not the World nor the Greeks) - therefore a huge problem with black market economy. But they have it already!

- their Leftist Government is discredited as we speak. So, maybe the other discredited Right Government will follow. Greeks are used to both!

All other problems of Greece like Nepotism, Corruption, Thievery, Tax system abuse etc. - have been there for ages. Maybe in the process of overcoming the crisis Greeks will learn. Maybe not.

But since we are not in Middle Ages Greece is not falling under Ottoman Empire. And it will be not occupied by British. Well, maybe they will join Israel... but given their Religion and Israelis nature I doubt it.

So, what is the Drama? Or do you really believe that eventually Italy, Portugal, Cyprus, Spain etc. will keep up with this ridiculous scheme called EU?

BTW, a lot of blame for this default must be laid at the feet of EU Banks who kept lending good money after bad despite absence of 3C's NeverSure mentioned above.

[melvinmelvin]

Love him or hate him, Farage has been bang on about the Euro for years. Here is a clip from the Euro's 10th anniversary in 2009.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DlVFKBwbuU

He certainly has some entertainment value. I prefer my daily dose of Farage in the evening along with a Chang and a wee nip.

[OJAS]

If Greece is forced to exit the Eurozone, then who do they turn to. The Russians? The Chinese? Is NATO going to give these 2 countries all that area to build bases? Fat chance. Eurozone is now propping up so many countries and it is dragging the whole of Europe down. Eurozone will not allow a Greece exit and soon the whole sham will collapse due to lack of hard and fiat cash. For European citizens, I would buy a mixture of currencies and none of them being European.

What do you mean forced to leave he Eurozone?

There are no legal provisions in the treaty for forcing any member out of the Eurozone.

There are no legal provisions in the treaty for leaving the Eurozone by own will.

Greece may leave the EU, there are provisions for that.

"If Greece is forced to exit the Eurozone, then who do they turn to. The Russians?"

Russia itself is stony broke at the moment, so Putin would probably be unable to afford the costs of baling Greece out even if he wanted to.

"There are no legal provisions in the treaty for leaving the Eurozone by own will."

Clearly it never dawned on those who conceived the whole Euro project in the first place that the genie might need to be placed back in the bottle once the project had gone pear-shaped!

Edited July 7, 2015 by OJAS

[trogers]

The Greek Finance Minister has given an assurance that banks will open on Tuesday but without an injection from the ECB where's the money coming from even with strict currency controls in place ?

Their banks can dispense olives instead of euros...

[hawker9000]

thaigold, can you explain why in your picture of Life, Universe and Everything

- not lending any more money to Greece is treacherous abandon, immoral and condemning Greeks to 'Hell'?

- Greece leaving EU is the end of the World? May be even the end of Greece?

Why over-dramatize a very simple fact proving that the formation of EU went too far or in a wrong direction altogether?

It is not like the rest of Europe led by German Panzer Divisions is going to war against Greece. The land mass of Peloponnese is intact. The infrastructure of Greece is intact.

Many businesses will collapse. Aren't they already?

I'm sure there will be no Famine, no Civil War and no Wars with the neighbours.

What is your problem?

Surely Greeks will be in a jam. Most importantly because

- they must look for alternative for Euro (Drachma is dead and buried);

- nobody will ever trust their banks (not the World nor the Greeks) - therefore a huge problem with black market economy. But they have it already!

- their Leftist Government is discredited as we speak. So, maybe the other discredited Right Government will follow. Greeks are used to both!

All other problems of Greece like Nepotism, Corruption, Thievery, Tax system abuse etc. - have been there for ages. Maybe in the process of overcoming the crisis Greeks will learn. Maybe not.

But since we are not in Middle Ages Greece is not falling under Ottoman Empire. And it will be not occupied by British. Well, maybe they will join Israel... but given their Religion and Israelis nature I doubt it.

So, what is the Drama? Or do you really believe that eventually Italy, Portugal, Cyprus, Spain etc. will keep up with this ridiculous scheme called EU?

BTW, a lot of blame for this default must be laid at the feet of EU Banks who kept lending good money after bad despite absence of 3C's NeverSure mentioned above.

"BTW, a lot of blame for this default must be laid at the feet of EU Banks who kept lending good money after bad despite absence of 3C's NeverSure mentioned above."

Yes, but then the evil, rich, heartless bankers would surely have been condemned for their refusal to lend ... probably by exactly the same individuals blaming them now for having lent! And, with respect to the IMF, the European Central Bank, and the European Commission (I think that's the "troika"; correct me if I got one of them wrong), as long as Greece wasn't in arrears, they really had no legal choice but to continue making credit available, did they?

[melvinmelvin]

If Greece is forced to exit the Eurozone, then who do they turn to. The Russians? The Chinese? Is NATO going to give these 2 countries all that area to build bases? Fat chance. Eurozone is now propping up so many countries and it is dragging the whole of Europe down. Eurozone will not allow a Greece exit and soon the whole sham will collapse due to lack of hard and fiat cash. For European citizens, I would buy a mixture of currencies and none of them being European.

What do you mean forced to leave he Eurozone?

There are no legal provisions in the treaty for forcing any member out of the Eurozone.

There are no legal provisions in the treaty for leaving the Eurozone by own will.

Greece may leave the EU, there are provisions for that.

"If Greece is forced to exit the Eurozone, then who do they turn to. The Russians?"

Russia itself is stony broke at the moment, so Putin would probably be unable to afford the costs of baling Greece out even if he wanted to.

"There are no legal provisions in the treaty for leaving the Eurozone by own will."

Clearly it never dawned on those who conceived the whole Euro project in the first place that the genie might need to be placed back in the bottle once the project had gone pear-shaped!

Thats a problem repeating itself with politicians. When polticians plan grand schemes (The Euro/Eurozone is/was a fairly grand political scheme) they don't make any Plan B,

they don't plan for possible failure, they plan for success. And they don't want their political schemes/plans cluttered with analysis, facts and legalities.

That approach works, most of the time but not all the time.

[MyFriend You]

Greece has created her own financial problems through decades of nepotism and government mismanagement. She has tried to avoid them by borrowing more and more (and schemes like trying to sue/shame Germany into paying off their debts) instead of making fundamental changes, and has now defaulted on her debts.

The Greeks refuse to give up the posh system they've grown used to, that is (apparently) financed in large part with that borrowed money. Up to 1/3rd of working Greeks are employed by their government ! They can't tax the other 2/3rds enough to pay for that and all other functions of their government. Add to that what is a (comparatively) plush pension scheme and it's little wonder they are so far in debt that they are now in default of their obligations.

When the previous government agreed to start making changes in return for "bail out" money, the Greeks protested. Instead of tightening up their belts, accepting responsibility for their own situation and trying to make changes, they voted in a government who promised to reverse those changes and go back to "the good old days". It seems the new government's entire fiscal plan was based on trying to sue Germany for money it alleges it is owed from a bank loan it made back during World War 2 ! Even if that had of somehow miraculously happened, all it would have done is pay down some of what they currently owe, not all of it, and the debt would continue to grow as they continue to spend more than they take in.

Obviously their plan failed and the EuroZone and IMF people are getting tired of throwing money into a bottomless pit. Too many other countries have been in financial difficulties recently and needing bail outs. Too many are starting to think along the same lines - we'll just overspend and borrow more until we can't afford to pay and then demand that our debts be forgiven or there'll be another "crisis". Every time there is a crisis they know there is the possibility that the Euro will lose value and therefore drag down the economies of the more affluent members (the ones who actually pay their debts and provide the money to bail out the others).

At some point you have to draw the line. At some point these debtor countries have to start taking responsibility for their own actions. If Greece can't pay her debts now, even with all the bail-out money she's been given in the past, how on earth does she think she can afford to go it alone (i.e. withdraw from the Euro). Go the Zimbabwe route of constant currency devaluations and start printing Trillion Drachma bills that won't even buy a loaf of bread ?

As for the EuroZone, perhaps it would be better to boot Greece out as all it would really do is strengthen the Euro by having one less liability draining resources from the rest. Most of the market turmoil has probably already happened as various entities hedge their bets one way or another and all their PhD talents have determined all the various outcomes already. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on. Maybe that time is now.

That's just my opinion though, which is worth about as much as the ink this is printed on !

The EU has to shoulder a lot of the blame too. They allowed Greece into the Euro when it should have been clear that the Greek economy was unsuitable. But of course they were blinded by their fanatical desire for a federal Europe.

I hope the whole political union side of the EU will now start to come crashing down and we can go back to a trading union.

They only allowed them in because Greece protested when they allowed Turkey to become part of he EU - only difference is Turkey has an ECONOMY, whereas Greece has Olives.

[a99az]

Thought this was a Thai forum!! But I do wonder how the Greeks in Thailand are doing guess we will soon see some of them on the streets of Bangkok with there hands out.

[melvinmelvin]

Greece has created her own financial problems through decades of nepotism and government mismanagement. She has tried to avoid them by borrowing more and more (and schemes like trying to sue/shame Germany into paying off their debts) instead of making fundamental changes, and has now defaulted on her debts.

The Greeks refuse to give up the posh system they've grown used to, that is (apparently) financed in large part with that borrowed money. Up to 1/3rd of working Greeks are employed by their government ! They can't tax the other 2/3rds enough to pay for that and all other functions of their government. Add to that what is a (comparatively) plush pension scheme and it's little wonder they are so far in debt that they are now in default of their obligations.

When the previous government agreed to start making changes in return for "bail out" money, the Greeks protested. Instead of tightening up their belts, accepting responsibility for their own situation and trying to make changes, they voted in a government who promised to reverse those changes and go back to "the good old days". It seems the new government's entire fiscal plan was based on trying to sue Germany for money it alleges it is owed from a bank loan it made back during World War 2 ! Even if that had of somehow miraculously happened, all it would have done is pay down some of what they currently owe, not all of it, and the debt would continue to grow as they continue to spend more than they take in.

Obviously their plan failed and the EuroZone and IMF people are getting tired of throwing money into a bottomless pit. Too many other countries have been in financial difficulties recently and needing bail outs. Too many are starting to think along the same lines - we'll just overspend and borrow more until we can't afford to pay and then demand that our debts be forgiven or there'll be another "crisis". Every time there is a crisis they know there is the possibility that the Euro will lose value and therefore drag down the economies of the more affluent members (the ones who actually pay their debts and provide the money to bail out the others).

At some point you have to draw the line. At some point these debtor countries have to start taking responsibility for their own actions. If Greece can't pay her debts now, even with all the bail-out money she's been given in the past, how on earth does she think she can afford to go it alone (i.e. withdraw from the Euro). Go the Zimbabwe route of constant currency devaluations and start printing Trillion Drachma bills that won't even buy a loaf of bread ?

As for the EuroZone, perhaps it would be better to boot Greece out as all it would really do is strengthen the Euro by having one less liability draining resources from the rest. Most of the market turmoil has probably already happened as various entities hedge their bets one way or another and all their PhD talents have determined all the various outcomes already. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on. Maybe that time is now.

That's just my opinion though, which is worth about as much as the ink this is printed on !

The EU has to shoulder a lot of the blame too. They allowed Greece into the Euro when it should have been clear that the Greek economy was unsuitable. But of course they were blinded by their fanatical desire for a federal Europe.

I hope the whole political union side of the EU will now start to come crashing down and we can go back to a trading union.

They only allowed them in because Greece protested when they allowed Turkey to become part of he EU - only difference is Turkey has an ECONOMY, whereas Greece has Olives.

Turkey part of EU?

[h90]

Is the question really 'should Greece be allowed to say in the Eurozone?' or should it be 'does Greece gain any advantage by staying in the Eurozone?'. I suspect that the answer to both questions is probably No.

The ECB, the IMF and Germany are partly to blame for this mess. Let me make an analogy: back in the '90s and early '00s the US banks were handing out money like drunken sailors. Then, the US economy slowed and crashed and over a 10 year period (2005 to 2015), 1 out of 4 US homeowners lost their homes to bank foreclosure. Now Greece's creditors are in the same position as the US Banks were a few years ago when millions of people were defaulting on their loans. However, there is one important difference. Greece's debtors cannot kick the Greeks out of their houses and sell them off to repay the debt! These sovereign debts are basically unsecured loans and if Greece defaults, their debtors have no real recourse.

If I were in charge of Greece, I would do two things:

1.print Drachma's and have them loaded into the ATM's this morning.

2.declare bankruptcy and negotiate repayment of the loans on a basis of 20 cents on the Euro.

They can't print,mint and plates were destroyed when they entered EU

But the can print the 20 Euro bill.

They could print 20 Euro bills and stemp on it that these are New Drachma. It would be crazy but crazier things have happened in the past.

They could just print 20 Euro bills uncontrolled. I would love to see Merkels face when Alexis Tsipras tells Merkel that he had to print 2 Billion Euro to fill up the ATMs and used random serial codes

[Wat dee]

Is the question really 'should Greece be allowed to say in the Eurozone?' or should it be 'does Greece gain any advantage by staying in the Eurozone?'. I suspect that the answer to both questions is probably No.

The ECB, the IMF and Germany are partly to blame for this mess. Let me make an analogy: back in the '90s and early '00s the US banks were handing out money like drunken sailors. Then, the US economy slowed and crashed and over a 10 year period (2005 to 2015), 1 out of 4 US homeowners lost their homes to bank foreclosure. Now Greece's creditors are in the same position as the US Banks were a few years ago when millions of people were defaulting on their loans. However, there is one important difference. Greece's debtors cannot kick the Greeks out of their houses and sell them off to repay the debt! These sovereign debts are basically unsecured loans and if Greece defaults, their debtors have no real recourse.

If I were in charge of Greece, I would do two things:

1.print Drachma's and have them loaded into the ATM's this morning.

2.declare bankruptcy and negotiate repayment of the loans on a basis of 20 cents on the Euro.

They can't print,mint and plates were destroyed when they entered EU

But the can print the 20 Euro bill.

They could print 20 Euro bills and stemp on it that these are New Drachma. It would be crazy but crazier things have happened in the past.

They could just print 20 Euro bills uncontrolled. I would love to see Merkels face when Alexis Tsipras tells Merkel that he had to print 2 Billion Euro to fill up the ATMs and used random serial codes

It really wouldn't be that big of a surprise.If we are real lucky they choose Rubels. New book was released,made by journalist James Angelon. Greece had over 8500 over 100 year old citizens.When officials looked in to matter over 40.000 dead people received pension. In prime area in Athens 300 people paid swimming pool tax. Official used Google Earth and found over 20.000 pools.

Most Doctors and Lawyers claimed they only earn 12.000 euros in a year. Only 5000 people in Greece made more than 127.000 Euros. Journalist asked why these people aren't punished. Officials replied they don't have facilities to lock up half the nation.

Very hard to sympathies these hard working people! Looking forward the paperback.

[cookee68]

Greece has created her own financial problems through decades of nepotism and government mismanagement. She has tried to avoid them by borrowing more and more (and schemes like trying to sue/shame Germany into paying off their debts) instead of making fundamental changes, and has now defaulted on her debts.

The Greeks refuse to give up the posh system they've grown used to, that is (apparently) financed in large part with that borrowed money. Up to 1/3rd of working Greeks are employed by their government ! They can't tax the other 2/3rds enough to pay for that and all other functions of their government. Add to that what is a (comparatively) plush pension scheme and it's little wonder they are so far in debt that they are now in default of their obligations.

When the previous government agreed to start making changes in return for "bail out" money, the Greeks protested. Instead of tightening up their belts, accepting responsibility for their own situation and trying to make changes, they voted in a government who promised to reverse those changes and go back to "the good old days". It seems the new government's entire fiscal plan was based on trying to sue Germany for money it alleges it is owed from a bank loan it made back during World War 2 ! Even if that had of somehow miraculously happened, all it would have done is pay down some of what they currently owe, not all of it, and the debt would continue to grow as they continue to spend more than they take in.

Obviously their plan failed and the EuroZone and IMF people are getting tired of throwing money into a bottomless pit. Too many other countries have been in financial difficulties recently and needing bail outs. Too many are starting to think along the same lines - we'll just overspend and borrow more until we can't afford to pay and then demand that our debts be forgiven or there'll be another "crisis". Every time there is a crisis they know there is the possibility that the Euro will lose value and therefore drag down the economies of the more affluent members (the ones who actually pay their debts and provide the money to bail out the others).

At some point you have to draw the line. At some point these debtor countries have to start taking responsibility for their own actions. If Greece can't pay her debts now, even with all the bail-out money she's been given in the past, how on earth does she think she can afford to go it alone (i.e. withdraw from the Euro). Go the Zimbabwe route of constant currency devaluations and start printing Trillion Drachma bills that won't even buy a loaf of bread ?

As for the EuroZone, perhaps it would be better to boot Greece out as all it would really do is strengthen the Euro by having one less liability draining resources from the rest. Most of the market turmoil has probably already happened as various entities hedge their bets one way or another and all their PhD talents have determined all the various outcomes already. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on. Maybe that time is now.

That's just my opinion though, which is worth about as much as the ink this is printed on !

And an opinion that I also agree with you, well said

[konying]

The Greek Finance Minister has given an assurance that banks will open on Tuesday but without an injection from the ECB where's the money coming from even with strict currency controls in place ?

And resigned this morning

[nidieunimaitre]

So we can slag off the Greeks for being lazy, corrupt communists?

Any other countries we are allowed to slag off?

[facthailand]

Iceland and Mexico both bravely refused to repay their loans from the IMF and World Bank.

Countries in financial difficulties deserve the cooperation and support of other nations not beating them to the ground.

Greek citizens themselves should vote by referendum to stay in the Eurozone or not. It's their choice that matters!

[smedly]

Iceland and Mexico both bravely refused to repay their loans from the IMF and World Bank.

Countries in financial difficulties deserve the cooperation and support of other nations not beating them to the ground.

Greek citizens themselves should vote by referendum to stay in the Eurozone or not. It's their choice that matters!

well yes the Greeks could vote on what every they want but unfortunately it is not simply a choice that will be granted by the rest of the EU members, they voted on whether they should be held accountable for the money they borrowed and to accept certain changes/reforms in exchange for loans and the majority rejected that, there should never have been a vote on such a matter, their elected government refused to make the decision which only they were qualified to make and then tried to label it as some sort of democratic voice - are they now going to hold a referendum on every aspect of every deal that is put forward ? how ridiculous is that

Before they took on this ridiculous vote it should have been clearly explained and understood by the voting public what would happen when they voted NO and that it would effectively end any on going support from all other EU countries and tax payers and banking entities, and that they will still owe the various creditors over 300 billion euros at the end of it (and that Putin will roll in with his tanks and annex them from the rest of Europe) , they were deceived to an almost criminal level IMO

What Greece are doing now is absolutely nothing - no more offers no concessions no plans ...nothing , it is now up to the other EU member states to decide what next, unfortunately not sure I see any other option but to withdraw support immediately......crunch time

Personally I believe they have already do a deal with Putin and are just waiting for the decision tomorrow that there will be no more support from the EU and that all loans on the books must be paid going forward, I find it hard to believe that Putin will hand money over so easily without some sort of terms, if Putin wants to bail the Greeks out then he needs to repay all monies owed to creditors first - a dangerous situation emerging that perhaps the Greek people were unaware of

Edited July 7, 2015 by smedly

[Publicus]

Iceland and Mexico both bravely refused to repay their loans from the IMF and World Bank.

Countries in financial difficulties deserve the cooperation and support of other nations not beating them to the ground.

Greek citizens themselves should vote by referendum to stay in the Eurozone or not. It's their choice that matters!

well yes the Greeks could vote on what every they want but unfortunately it is not simply a choice that will be granted by the rest of the EU members, they voted on whether they should be held accountable for the money they borrowed and to accept certain changes/reforms in exchange for loans and the majority rejected that, there should never have been a vote on such a matter, their elected government refused to make the decision which only they were qualified to make and then tried to label it as some sort of democratic voice - are they now going to hold a referendum on every aspect of every deal that is put forward ? how ridiculous is that

Before they took on this ridiculous vote it should have been clearly explained and understood by the voting public what would happen when they voted NO and that it would effectively end any on going support from all other EU countries and tax payers and banking entities, and that they will still owe the various creditors over 300 billion euros at the end of it (and that Putin will roll in with his tanks and annex them from the rest of Europe) , they were deceived to an almost criminal level IMO

What Greece are doing now is absolutely nothing - no more offers no concessions no plans ...nothing , it is now up to the other EU member states to decide what next, unfortunately not sure I see any other option but to withdraw support immediately......crunch time

Personally I believe they have already do a deal with Putin and are just waiting for the decision tomorrow that there will be no more support from the EU and that all loans on the books must be paid going forward, I find it hard to believe that Putin will hand money over so easily without some sort of terms, if Putin wants to bail the Greeks out then he needs to repay all monies owed to creditors first - a dangerous situation emerging that perhaps the Greek people were unaware of

Good points about Putin who called Tsipras after the referendum 'no' vote to congratulate him but offered no cash or money.

In April Tsipras visited Putin in Moscow but saw for real that Putin can't provide any legit bucks. Putin is mortgaging Russia to the CCP China by putting state owned firms in hock to the dictators in Beijing in return for hard currency Putin desperately needs. Neither does Beijing want anything to do with this. Further, the euro currency troika are the only place for Greece to go.

The EU / Nato countries to include Washington are breathing down the neck of Tsipros to reach a deal with the troika rather than consider separating from the euro or rather than try to play the EU/Nato off against Putin and Russia. When casting his vote, the Greek defense minister said Russia is a "brother country," and since February he's been publicly talking up a 'Plan B' to look more toward Russia which is offering to lift its ban of Greek produce, provide cheaper gas and to establish a pipeline terminal at the Turkey-Greece border.

Judy Dempsey, of the Carnegie Endowment Europe sees it this way....

"Because of the Cyprus issue and Turkey, not to speak of the turmoil in the Middle East, NATO is crucial to Greece's security," said Judy Dempsey, an expert with the Carnegie Europe think tank in Brussels. "I can't imagine what the military would do if there was any move by the ultraleft and ultraright in Tsipras' coalition to even call into question the Alliance. Not to speak about how the U.S. would do everything to keep Greece inside NATO."

http://carnegieeurope.eu/2015/07/06/what-does-greek-vote-mean-for-eu/icxc

Tsipras and his coalition are not interested in changing Greece into anything resembling a modern or efficient economy and society, yet the EMU and EU right down to Latvia consider a parallel currency a band-aid that both exacerbates and extends the mess, indefinitely.

[hawker9000]

Iceland and Mexico both bravely refused to repay their loans from the IMF and World Bank.

Countries in financial difficulties deserve the cooperation and support of other nations not beating them to the ground.

Greek citizens themselves should vote by referendum to stay in the Eurozone or not. It's their choice that matters!

"bravely refused to repay their loans from the IMF and World Bank"

"bravely"?? "BRAVELY"??? Really? ROFLMAO!!!

OK, I'm going to refuse to repay my mortgage loan. I'll let you know where to send my Medal of Honor!!

555555555555555555 Too funny! The "financial difficulties" (euphemism for as a society arrogantly insisting upon irresponsibly living beyond their collective means) were completely self-inflicted wounds. They're not being "beaten to the ground", merely being told to repay, in just about the smallest possible increments imaginable - nobody's demanding they pay it all back at once FPS - the money they borrowed! Nobody MADE them borrow all that money (330 billion euros). It was THEIR decision, a GREEK decision, a series of like decisions actually, to borrow it. "Borrow", as in, "must repay". Get real. Learn what a "loan" is.

You want to talk about who gets to vote? About "democracy"? OK. If Greek citizens should be able to vote to stay or not stay in the Eurozone, then the other paying citizens of the Eurozone should get to vote on whether to keep lending them money! That's democracy, too!

Iceland? What on earth are you babbling about. Read here (you should've done it before posting rubbish). But I suppose Iceland must've been "beaten to the ground", eh? hehehehe

[nidieunimaitre]

Should Dijsselbloem, Draghi, Tusk and Juncker be allowed to remain in the top of the European institutions?

[NeverSure]

The Eurozone is a fairly recent experiment. It's already crashed once and needed a $USD 2 trillion bailout. The whole Eurozone did. LINK

This is interesting to watch even if a bit unnerving. The Eurozone needs Greece more than Greece needs it and it shows in spades. The Eurozone is afraid of the unwinding of fractional reserve banking across the countries, throwing the area into turmoil.

The Eurozone has already blinked first.

[MaeJoMTB]

Iceland and Mexico both bravely refused to repay their loans from the IMF and World Bank.

Countries in financial difficulties deserve the cooperation and support of other nations not beating them to the ground.

Greek citizens themselves should vote by referendum to stay in the Eurozone or not. It's their choice that matters!

Germany has already failed to pay back it's loan to Greece (1953).

Fairs fair.

[Credo]

Iceland and Mexico both bravely refused to repay their loans from the IMF and World Bank.

Countries in financial difficulties deserve the cooperation and support of other nations not beating them to the ground.

Greek citizens themselves should vote by referendum to stay in the Eurozone or not. It's their choice that matters!

Germany has already failed to pay back it's loan to Greece (1953).

Fairs fair.

Germany is not the Euro and the Euro is not Germany. Germany is probably a key player, but it is far from being the only player.

[melvinmelvin]

Should Dijsselbloem, Draghi, Tusk and Juncker be allowed to remain in the top of the European institutions?

The Dutchman could go, no big loss. He doesn't produce and move things forward in the environment that the zone is in now.

Edited July 8, 2015 by melvinmelvin

[MaeJoMTB]

Germany is not the Euro and the Euro is not Germany. Germany is probably a key player, but it is far from being the only player.

I think you're wrong there.

[melvinmelvin]

The Eurozone is a fairly recent experiment. It's already crashed once and needed a $USD 2 trillion bailout. The whole Eurozone did. LINK

This is interesting to watch even if a bit unnerving. The Eurozone needs Greece more than Greece needs it and it shows in spades. The Eurozone is afraid of the unwinding of fractional reserve banking across the countries, throwing the area into turmoil.

The Eurozone has already blinked first.

Agree with your bit on the zone needs Greece in the zone more than Greece needs the zone. (For somewhat different reasons though.)

I would go as far as saying that the EU needs Greece in the zone way more than Greece needs the zone.

[nidieunimaitre]

Should Dijsselbloem, Draghi, Tusk and Juncker be allowed to remain in the top of the European institutions?

The Dutchman could go, no big loss. He doesn't produce and move things forward in the environment that the zone is in now.

Dijsselbloem studied agriculture, bought a suit and worked His way up in the Dutch right wing social democrat party.

He later became top finance minister.......

He will for ever be remembered for giving angry looks to Varouflakis at a press conference (Varou had the audacity to shake His hand without wearing a suit).

In the same category of people we have Schulz, the German chairman of the European "Parliament". The looks he gave Tsipras are priceless (the video is in the news now).

Tsipras came to the E"P" wearing a shirt but no tie..., and got a big applause, much to the dislike of Schulz, the right wing suit wearing social democrat.

There are common denominators in these stories - yes, including my personal distrust of Suits.

[hawker9000]

Germany is not the Euro and the Euro is not Germany. Germany is probably a key player, but it is far from being the only player.

I think you're wrong there.

This might help. Obviously, Germany isn't the only player.

[SheungWan]

So we can slag off the Greeks for being lazy, corrupt communists?

Any other countries we are allowed to slag off?

Cyprus.

[hawker9000]

So we can slag off the Greeks for being lazy, corrupt communists?

Any other countries we are allowed to slag off?

Cyprus.

And, actually, for being lazy, corrupt socialists (well, no doubt including a fair number of communists) trying to make some holy crusade out of not paying their bills... 'A deadbeat nation.

[Orac]

Iceland and Mexico both bravely refused to repay their loans from the IMF and World Bank.

Countries in financial difficulties deserve the cooperation and support of other nations not beating them to the ground.

Greek citizens themselves should vote by referendum to stay in the Eurozone or not. It's their choice that matters!

Germany has already failed to pay back it's loan to Greece (1953).

Fairs fair.

After 8 years of restructuring and military occupation plus an agreement to run a budget surplus in the future. Can't see Greece agreeing to such terms somehow.