Looking for advice on a Thai yabaa problem

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Know a Thai family that's going thru hell right now...because one of their young adults got involved with yabaa... missing work.... hearing voices...not eating...etc etc etc...

Somehow, the police never got involved... But the people at his work and his family got him admitted to a private psych hospital, where he's receiving treatment now... about 2 weeks after being admitted and thus presumably off yabaa... Yet right now, he apparently still wants the drug, doesn't think he needs help, and would go back to it if he could...

The problem is...according to the family...the psych hospital isn't inclined to keep him for as long as it may take for him to get clean off the drug... And the government drug treatment hospital the family is in contact with only will take patients either sent by police or who voluntarily check themselves in for treatment. And, as I said, right now, he guy wouldn't volunteer to go there...

The family also talked with a Thai judge, who told them that he could only order the guy confined for treatment if the police brought him a case. So...the question is... how can the family keep the guy in treatment when he doesn't want to be treated....without getting the police and a criminal case on his record involved???

Any advice or experience on this... much appreciated.

Edited July 6, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Deserted]

I think what you are asking is how can you help someone who can't/won't help themselves more or less. Does he accept he has a problem? If not I don't know what you can do. If he wants to keep taking that stuff he will. He may have to go through hell or have something bad happen to him before it sinks in. Sorry that its not what you want to hear but that's my opinion. I'm not saying I am right but unless the guy addresses the problem himself, or can see it as that rather than some harmless vice there isn't much you can do.

You could maybe try to invite a policeman round to explain that they will arrest him if he continues to scare him but you said they weren't interested and that you have already spoken to others.

I had a friend die from taking drugs once. We tried to help him, pay his debts and so on, as soon as he got more money he bought more of that stuff and then never woke up from his sleep. We knew it was coming, even he knew it was coming but he couldn't stop himself.

[Deserted]

btw, the hospital route might not be your best option. They generally take a dim view of such things are will at best replace one drug with another. He has to want to stop himself but he can be helped I think. Sorry if this is not what you want to hear, seen many go down the path you mention about your Thai friend.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Any advice...welcome...

I'm certainly no expert on this subject... But I have the impression...that once people get hooked on yabaa.... they rarely WANT to help themselves off it.

[coulson]

How did he get admitted in the first place if he didn't turn himself in?

And why are they not inclined to keep him? Has he satisfied them that he's clean, or is 2 weeks a standard drying out period?

I know back home, rehabilitation centers provided by the state are really more interested in publishing their success stories, one hint you are good to go and you're out the door to meet their quota. The majority of real support comes from family and friends. Unfortunately in this case I don't know are the friends part of the problem, considering he is in late teens?

A change of scenery is the best solution, not just a few weeks I mean a few months at least, if he could be sent to relatives in another province that would be ideal.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm not on-scene... but from what I'm told...

His parents and siblings and work supervisor got him to go to a Thai government hospital, where they tested him positive for drugs... At that point, he apparently was pretty much out of his wits... So..somehow...they bundled him into an ambulance and took him to the psych hospital... where he was admitted by his family apparently at least in part because he was hearing "voices" in his head.

After a week or so there, and presumably off drugs, he came back to his senses some and apparently didn't remember ever getting taken to the hospital or who brought him there. But...the place is a psych hospital...and I gather... they're going to keep him until he calms down and stops hearing voices... But it seems... they're not committed to the longer-term process of getting him clean from drugs...

I have a nurse friend who had a family member on yabaa...and she's telling me it took a couple months stay in a hospital before her relative was finally OK not to go back to the drugs... The psych place, apparently, just doesn't see that longer process as part of their role, and they'd have him moved to the government drug treatment hospital...but that place is voluntary...which is the problem right now. I guess from the psych place's perspective, they've got more than enough crazy folks to care for who have nothing to do with drugs....

[coulson]

Any advice...welcome...

I'm certainly no expert on this subject... But I have the impression...that once people get hooked on yabaa.... they rarely WANT to help themselves off it.

I don't know about being hooked on yabba (Ketamine?) but it is an antisocial drug, unlike coke or other amphetamines, so the liklihood is the social group he is using it with and what they get up to when they dabble is part of the addiction.

Removing that is hard as I mentioned earlier, change of scenery is the best way to remove that element. Then you have to deal with the physical addiction itself. Every hour you spend high on this stuff equals 3-4 hours of horrible hangover/ withdrawal, if he's using it every day then I have no idea.......

If I was in your shoes and this person was a friend of mine (example - full disclaimer), I would get out of town immediately to some remote beach location away from it all. I would get him drunk and chasing tail by night and out getting daylight exercise by day while eating normally. Physical exertion and nutrition are fundamental to eliminating the residual chemicals however motivation is a real stumbling block and that is why you need a wingman/ friend. If the waking hours were too difficult there are medications that can help with cold turkey. You can start to understand why hospitals over prescribe pills alone because they have to manage a large group of cases in a confined space and they just don't have the wherewithal to attend personally.

Your main objective is to get him hooked on something else that is acceptable and remove his desire to be part of whatever circle it is he is currently involved with.

Do some research on the drug and talk to a doctor about withdrawal, that is if you really want to help. You can only do so much though, as eventually he has to go on his way.

[faraday]

Until he accepts he has an addiction & wants to be free of drugs, nothing much will change.

He needs to discover why he let himself, or was powerless to prevent, the addiction from consuming him.

If he doesn't fix the reason for his drug taking, the personal destruction will continue in any number of forms. So just being free of Yaba, is likely not the answer.

He didn't become addicted in two weeks, it took him much longer, so two weeks of treatment will not, I doubt, solve this.

I strongly suggest some Counselling, it will help him, but he needs to want to be helped.

[dotpoom]

Unfortunately it is as "Deserted" says in the majority of cases. One cannot help someone with a problem if they themselves do not see they have a problem, they need to understand that they at least have one. It is a sad fact that many have to go through the "gates of hell" before learning that (although with so much awareness on the subject these days, they may not have to go all the way to their potential Rock Bottom). It is also a sad fact that at times the most you can do is stand by helplessly until he reaches out for help, then be there for him and offer him all the support you can....it's not easy. At the end of the day, the family of the person can end up as "sick" as the person themselves from the stress and worry .

P.S. Be mindful of the fact that when you take matters into your own hands and maybe find a way through forceful detainment (as you spoke of earlier) you may be doing more harm than good. It may cause him to build up a big resentment against the people who contrived it and place him a position that he will no longer ever trust them....thus cutting off whatever chance you had of helping him in the future.

[DavidB4]

The desire to help someone is ingrained in many of us but sometimes you just need to walk away and this is one those times. My experience with it in the US = 1. NEVER trust a speed(yabaa) freak. It is not the same as other drugs and what it does to people is akin to temporary(sometimes not so temporary) insanity. They either hit rock bottom and then climb their way back out or they don't and you don't want to be to close when it's happening.

[BudRight]

Ever heard the expression "no good deed goes unpunished?" They were talking about situations like this.

[simon43]

Having seen my marriage, family and business wrecked some years ago by my ex-partner who was addicted to yaba, I have one sensible suggestion.

Don't walk away from this - RUN!

As others have said, you cannot help a yaba addict unless they want to help themselves.

[me313]

You are assuming in the first place that you are helping this person who is too thick to want to receive confinement, forcing on him the social stigma of being considered a psych evaluation "drug addict" who doesn't know what is best for himself. Whether or not this is the actual case, there are many instances of false diagnosis, psychological torture by the psychological institutions that imprison people against their wills, confined by family. There are drug rehabilitation centers that should be able to help this individual, don't know if these exist in Thailand but essentially imprisoning this person and then affixing labels of drug addict psychological failure refusing to receive your alms of wisdom and "help" belie a more deep-seated need to control this individual, may be hiding familial abuse which this individual cannot escape due to low wages or other factors, and the responses I have read on this forum post reveal the same tendency to be judge and jury combined, by individuals who are only happy to crush others into their categories which of course puts these judges of criteria condemnation into supreme positions of power, moral and otherwise.

[fang37]

Alcohol & drug usage is usually associated with one not accepting life as it really is.

Then, addiction creates further problems.

Many strategies have been tested.

The least expensive & yet successful is AA & NA.

Thai heritage does not help.

My suggestion - you educate yourself in this area.

Most importantly -

BE A GOOD LISTENER & NO DEMANDS MADE.

[seancbk]

Any advice...welcome...

I'm certainly no expert on this subject... But I have the impression...that once people get hooked on yabaa.... they rarely WANT to help themselves off it.

I don't know about being hooked on yabba (Ketamine?) but it is an antisocial drug, unlike coke or other amphetamines, so the liklihood is the social group he is using it with and what they get up to when they dabble is part of the addiction.

Removing that is hard as I mentioned earlier, change of scenery is the best way to remove that element. Then you have to deal with the physical addiction itself. Every hour you spend high on this stuff equals 3-4 hours of horrible hangover/ withdrawal, if he's using it every day then I have no idea.......

If I was in your shoes and this person was a friend of mine (example - full disclaimer), I would get out of town immediately to some remote beach location away from it all. I would get him drunk and chasing tail by night and out getting daylight exercise by day while eating normally. Physical exertion and nutrition are fundamental to eliminating the residual chemicals however motivation is a real stumbling block and that is why you need a wingman/ friend. If the waking hours were too difficult there are medications that can help with cold turkey. You can start to understand why hospitals over prescribe pills alone because they have to manage a large group of cases in a confined space and they just don't have the wherewithal to attend personally.

Your main objective is to get him hooked on something else that is acceptable and remove his desire to be part of whatever circle it is he is currently involved with.

Do some research on the drug and talk to a doctor about withdrawal, that is if you really want to help. You can only do so much though, as eventually he has to go on his way.

You advocate doing research on the drug, yet you think Yaba might be Ketamine?

I suggest you read this article which explains a bit more what Yaba is - http://www.drugs-info.co.uk/drugpages/yaba/yaba.html

[HughJass]

it may sound harsh but i would chain him to a wall for the next six months

[h90]

it may sound harsh but i would chain him to a wall for the next six months

won't help, because not the withdraw is the problem. The problem is that he doesn't want to stop as he doesn't see a problem with it.

[Minnehaha]

Alcohol & drug usage is usually associated with one not accepting life as it really is.

Then, addiction creates further problems.

Many strategies have been tested.

The least expensive & yet successful is AA & NA.

Thai heritage does not help.

My suggestion - you educate yourself in this area.

Most importantly -

BE A GOOD LISTENER & NO DEMANDS MADE.

I have had some experience with yaabaa addicts and alcoholics both.

One observation: AA and NA are "community based recovery entities" if you will. One reason there is debate about Thai culture being an obstacle is that the NA or AA groups are mostly westerners, although there are a few Thai groups. Having a community of people in recovery around oneself makes a huge difference and is fundamental to AA / NA.

I echo the suggestion to educate yourself in this area. Maybe go to an AA or NA meeting (they have ones that are "Open" and allow visitors).

Unless you personally have a relationship of significance with this person OR are a recovering addict yourself you have little to no leverage in approaching the person. As others have said, if he does not want help then none of these approaches will work. The problem lies in his head, and he has no motivation to address it.

Getting arrested and doing time can be a motivator. But one can also get drugs in jail. And it can screw up his life for work, etc. Obviously.

I would educate myself and then eduacate the person closest to him (probably a family member, male, older, or someone he is dependent on).

Then I would remove all financial risks - do not loan money unless you want to give it away, do not trust them with anything of value, and at the same time treat them and talk with them as you would with a person who is very very sick. have compassion, but don't be stupid about the reality of the situation.

[does]

Very interesting to know the origin and content of the stuff. Scary too.

I agree with other posters that users only stop drugs if they want to do so from within. In that sense it's not different from smoking or alcohol.

Any advice...welcome...

I'm certainly no expert on this subject... But I have the impression...that once people get hooked on yabaa.... they rarely WANT to help themselves off it.

I don't know about being hooked on yabba (Ketamine?) but it is an antisocial drug, unlike coke or other amphetamines, so the liklihood is the social group he is using it with and what they get up to when they dabble is part of the addiction.

Removing that is hard as I mentioned earlier, change of scenery is the best way to remove that element. Then you have to deal with the physical addiction itself. Every hour you spend high on this stuff equals 3-4 hours of horrible hangover/ withdrawal, if he's using it every day then I have no idea.......

If I was in your shoes and this person was a friend of mine (example - full disclaimer), I would get out of town immediately to some remote beach location away from it all. I would get him drunk and chasing tail by night and out getting daylight exercise by day while eating normally. Physical exertion and nutrition are fundamental to eliminating the residual chemicals however motivation is a real stumbling block and that is why you need a wingman/ friend. If the waking hours were too difficult there are medications that can help with cold turkey. You can start to understand why hospitals over prescribe pills alone because they have to manage a large group of cases in a confined space and they just don't have the wherewithal to attend personally.

Your main objective is to get him hooked on something else that is acceptable and remove his desire to be part of whatever circle it is he is currently involved with.

Do some research on the drug and talk to a doctor about withdrawal, that is if you really want to help. You can only do so much though, as eventually he has to go on his way.

You advocate doing research on the drug, yet you think Yaba might be Ketamine?

I suggest you read this article which explains a bit more what Yaba is - http://www.drugs-info.co.uk/drugpages/yaba/yaba.html

[NoshowJones]

I think what you are asking is how can you help someone who can't/won't help themselves more or less. Does he accept he has a problem? If not I don't know what you can do. If he wants to keep taking that stuff he will. He may have to go through hell or have something bad happen to him before it sinks in. Sorry that its not what you want to hear but that's my opinion. I'm not saying I am right but unless the guy addresses the problem himself, or can see it as that rather than some harmless vice there isn't much you can do.

You could maybe try to invite a policeman round to explain that they will arrest him if he continues to scare him but you said they weren't interested and that you have already spoken to others.

I had a friend die from taking drugs once. We tried to help him, pay his debts and so on, as soon as he got more money he bought more of that stuff and then never woke up from his sleep. We knew it was coming, even he knew it was coming but he couldn't stop himself.

and a lot of posters said that the English guys sentence for dealing drugs was too long at fifty years??

No amount of time is too long for those people who deal in death and ruin families all for their own gain.

[NoshowJones]

I'm not on-scene... but from what I'm told...

His parents and siblings and work supervisor got him to go to a Thai government hospital, where they tested him positive for drugs... At that point, he apparently was pretty much out of his wits... So..somehow...they bundled him into an ambulance and took him to the psych hospital... where he was admitted by his family apparently at least in part because he was hearing "voices" in his head.

After a week or so there, and presumably off drugs, he came back to his senses some and apparently didn't remember ever getting taken to the hospital or who brought him there. But...the place is a psych hospital...and I gather... they're going to keep him until he calms down and stops hearing voices... But it seems... they're not committed to the longer-term process of getting him clean from drugs...

I have a nurse friend who had a family member on yabaa...and she's telling me it took a couple months stay in a hospital before her relative was finally OK not to go back to the drugs... The psych place, apparently, just doesn't see that longer process as part of their role, and they'd have him moved to the government drug treatment hospital...but that place is voluntary...which is the problem right now. I guess from the psych place's perspective, they've got more than enough crazy folks to care for who have nothing to do with drugs....

Your concern for this guy is highly recommendable, i hope the family manage to help the guy, but as I said drug dealers need to be put away

from society for good, and lets not hear of alcohol and cigarettes being compared to this.

[h90]

I think what you are asking is how can you help someone who can't/won't help themselves more or less. Does he accept he has a problem? If not I don't know what you can do. If he wants to keep taking that stuff he will. He may have to go through hell or have something bad happen to him before it sinks in. Sorry that its not what you want to hear but that's my opinion. I'm not saying I am right but unless the guy addresses the problem himself, or can see it as that rather than some harmless vice there isn't much you can do.

You could maybe try to invite a policeman round to explain that they will arrest him if he continues to scare him but you said they weren't interested and that you have already spoken to others.

I had a friend die from taking drugs once. We tried to help him, pay his debts and so on, as soon as he got more money he bought more of that stuff and then never woke up from his sleep. We knew it was coming, even he knew it was coming but he couldn't stop himself.

and a lot of posters said that the English guys sentence for dealing drugs was too long at fifty years??

No amount of time is too long for those people who deal in death and ruin families all for their own gain.

No the ruin no one.....People by the narcotics and use them. No one forces them.

McDonalds, Coke or Smith & Wesson also ruins families for their own gain.....

Trying to limit the supply doesn't work, it is tried since centuries without success, it only increases the profit. It won't work the same as now in the next decade. If you want to dry out the dealer you must sell narcotics state controlled in pharmacies.

[harrry]

Unless he wants to stop he will not.

Even if he wants to stop he will find it very hard because of peer pressures.

Nowhere will keep people in a psychiatric hospital just because his family wants him to stop taking drugs.

[Crossy]

A racist flame post has been removed.

Any more will net holidays.

[NoshowJones]

I think what you are asking is how can you help someone who can't/won't help themselves more or less. Does he accept he has a problem? If not I don't know what you can do. If he wants to keep taking that stuff he will. He may have to go through hell or have something bad happen to him before it sinks in. Sorry that its not what you want to hear but that's my opinion. I'm not saying I am right but unless the guy addresses the problem himself, or can see it as that rather than some harmless vice there isn't much you can do.

You could maybe try to invite a policeman round to explain that they will arrest him if he continues to scare him but you said they weren't interested and that you have already spoken to others.

I had a friend die from taking drugs once. We tried to help him, pay his debts and so on, as soon as he got more money he bought more of that stuff and then never woke up from his sleep. We knew it was coming, even he knew it was coming but he couldn't stop himself.

and a lot of posters said that the English guys sentence for dealing drugs was too long at fifty years??

No amount of time is too long for those people who deal in death and ruin families all for their own gain.

No the ruin no one.....People by the narcotics and use them. No one forces them.

McDonalds, Coke or Smith & Wesson also ruins families for their own gain.....

Trying to limit the supply doesn't work, it is tried since centuries without success, it only increases the profit. It won't work the same as now in the next decade. If you want to dry out the dealer you must sell narcotics state controlled in pharmacies.

You make a lot of good posts h90, but if I'm reading you right, surely you cannot compared MacDonalds etc, to street corner drug dealers.

I'm not trying to be the grammar police, but I assume your first five words are meant to be 'Nobody ruins anyone'. I'm afraid I can't see

it that way at all.

[mickjn]

I tried to help someone this year.Mother had her baby didn't care about the baby,just the money the daughter would send her.I got a call from Auntie who is a good lady.So had gone to her sisters and got the baby and could go and get her niece and bring her home.I made a couple of calls,3 hours later I was talking to her,and she looked terrible.She was a beautiful girl but now a wreck.I got her on the mini bus and she went home.2 days later she was back in the bar.I rang Auntie and she said do not worry everything will be ok we cannot help her.I spoke to a few friends Thai and Farangs and everyone said it would be ok.Well it was within 3 months she was dead.That was it.

On the other hand I have known a guy that takes heroin,nearly 40 same job for a long time never miss a day of work.

I can only see one thing wrong with the OP.You will never get him off the drugs if he doesn't want to.The part when he hears voices if a big concern.If he overdoses a dies so be it.As long as his mental illness doesnt cause harm to others if he goes off his head

[coulson]

Any advice...welcome...

I'm certainly no expert on this subject... But I have the impression...that once people get hooked on yabaa.... they rarely WANT to help themselves off it.

I don't know about being hooked on yabba (Ketamine?) but it is an antisocial drug, unlike coke or other amphetamines, so the liklihood is the social group he is using it with and what they get up to when they dabble is part of the addiction.

Removing that is hard as I mentioned earlier, change of scenery is the best way to remove that element. Then you have to deal with the physical addiction itself. Every hour you spend high on this stuff equals 3-4 hours of horrible hangover/ withdrawal, if he's using it every day then I have no idea.......

If I was in your shoes and this person was a friend of mine (example - full disclaimer), I would get out of town immediately to some remote beach location away from it all. I would get him drunk and chasing tail by night and out getting daylight exercise by day while eating normally. Physical exertion and nutrition are fundamental to eliminating the residual chemicals however motivation is a real stumbling block and that is why you need a wingman/ friend. If the waking hours were too difficult there are medications that can help with cold turkey. You can start to understand why hospitals over prescribe pills alone because they have to manage a large group of cases in a confined space and they just don't have the wherewithal to attend personally.

Your main objective is to get him hooked on something else that is acceptable and remove his desire to be part of whatever circle it is he is currently involved with.

Do some research on the drug and talk to a doctor about withdrawal, that is if you really want to help. You can only do so much though, as eventually he has to go on his way.

You advocate doing research on the drug, yet you think Yaba might be Ketamine?

I suggest you read this article which explains a bit more what Yaba is - http://www.drugs-info.co.uk/drugpages/yaba/yaba.html

Thanks for answering my query, you'll notice the question mark beside the word.

I don't need to read it, the OP does

[h90]

I think what you are asking is how can you help someone who can't/won't help themselves more or less. Does he accept he has a problem? If not I don't know what you can do. If he wants to keep taking that stuff he will. He may have to go through hell or have something bad happen to him before it sinks in. Sorry that its not what you want to hear but that's my opinion. I'm not saying I am right but unless the guy addresses the problem himself, or can see it as that rather than some harmless vice there isn't much you can do.

You could maybe try to invite a policeman round to explain that they will arrest him if he continues to scare him but you said they weren't interested and that you have already spoken to others.

I had a friend die from taking drugs once. We tried to help him, pay his debts and so on, as soon as he got more money he bought more of that stuff and then never woke up from his sleep. We knew it was coming, even he knew it was coming but he couldn't stop himself.

and a lot of posters said that the English guys sentence for dealing drugs was too long at fifty years??

No amount of time is too long for those people who deal in death and ruin families all for their own gain.

No the ruin no one.....People by the narcotics and use them. No one forces them.

McDonalds, Coke or Smith & Wesson also ruins families for their own gain.....

Trying to limit the supply doesn't work, it is tried since centuries without success, it only increases the profit. It won't work the same as now in the next decade. If you want to dry out the dealer you must sell narcotics state controlled in pharmacies.

You make a lot of good posts h90, but if I'm reading you right, surely you cannot compared MacDonalds etc, to street corner drug dealers.

I'm not trying to be the grammar police, but I assume your first five words are meant to be 'Nobody ruins anyone'. I'm afraid I can't see

it that way at all.

I know it is an extreme example

Look how many people die from narcotics and how many people die from obesity, while the drug addicted can't stop the narcotics the fat one can't stop the junk food. Health problems, divorce, job problems etc.

I admit that unhealthy food isn't mind altering.

Or take a different angle:

heroin

cocaine

Yaba

These are "dangerous" narcotics most will agree

Marihuana

Kratom

People will be split about the danger

Nicotine

Alcohol

Betel Nut

Many people will think it is of little danger

Caffeine

Carbohydrate rich food, Sugar

Other addictions: shopping, gambling, sex.....

So where you want Prayut or Yingluck or Chalerm set the border of legality to protect you?

I am sure if heroin is sold in the pharmacy I still won't start. But the drug dealers who try to sell it to younger people have no job, no profit anymore. They aren't interested to make people addicted.

Addicted people don't need to steal, resell or prostitute themself as they get it cheap in the pharmacy.

Lots of the damage from injected drugs is from the dirt that is mixed inside....that problem is also gone.

So what is the argument of banning the narcotics? Give an addicted a prescription and dry up the money flow.

[NoshowJones]

Good post h90, I am not an expert in drugs, all I know is what I read about them, and it seems to me that from what the

OP is saying, would not have happened if it was not for the dealers.

All these young folk dying in clubs, at parties etc, this would not be happening in most cases if it was not for the dealers.

I don't just mean in Thailand, in any country.

IMO, get rid of the dealers and about 90% of the drug problem will cease to exist.

[mikiea]

yet another weak druggie , there will be thousand more just like him ......can do nothing except say goodbye and show him the door ............