Does airport immigration really not have your valid visa info in their system?

[paz]

I don't believe Thailand is capable of full integration of computer systems in line with most western countries these days.

You may not believe it, but as mentioned above Immigration had since many years a working database for all their activities. It is accessible from any border post beside Immigration offices. They also have integration with the national and international warrant database, international lost and stolene database etc. Edited July 8, 2015 by paz

[ubonjoe]

The MFA does not have a database for visas issued.

People that had a problem with a visa that was issued with an error have gone to the consular affairs department and had to wait for them to contact the embassy or consulate to confirm they issued the visa.

That is why people can get a new passport and get a new visa even after having several in their old passport. It is possible to go back to the same location where they had gotten several visas. All they go by is what they see in the passport.

Blimey - I'm stunned!

So even in the same country where the visa has been issued - they do no record this in any type of computer system and the only evidence of a consulate or Embassy has is what is on the passport itself.

I might be missing something here, but is this not a workaround for the restricted amount of tourist visa applications that can be made back to back, by simply applying for a new passport after using up the max amount of back to back tourist visa applications?

The embassy probably has some records but not to where they could easily enter a name and do a search. All they may have is the info they entered to print out the visa stickers. To confirm anything they would have go back to the files where the application is kept.

[spambot]

So even in the same country where the visa has been issued - they do no record this in any type of computer system and the only evidence of a consulate or Embassy has is what is on the passport itself.

MfA likely have a database but is not immediately accessible from any Immigration terminal. Some consulates don't bother checking beside what is on the passport itself. Others sends for approval to the embassy in country. Some other claim they have to submit for approval to MfA in Bangkok. There is no uniform approach.

I might be missing something here, but is this not a workaround for the restricted amount of tourist visa applications that can be made back to back, by simply applying for a new passport after using up the max amount of back to back tourist visa applications?

Some people does that, but in reality as long one can prove funds and residence it may not even be necessary.

Thanks PAZ - Yup I get your point that if you had the deposited funds and wanted to do it that way - Then this is a tried and tested way to stay.

I was just really amazed to find out that there was another way around the system that if you had some good reason and did prefer to do it always with a tourist visa.

So assuming you preferred to do the trip to Laos every 4 months (to get the 3 double tourist visas) the max 3 back to back limit is in fact is not a limiting factor - The work around is to get a new passport.

[spambot]

The MFA does not have a database for visas issued.

People that had a problem with a visa that was issued with an error have gone to the consular affairs department and had to wait for them to contact the embassy or consulate to confirm they issued the visa.

That is why people can get a new passport and get a new visa even after having several in their old passport. It is possible to go back to the same location where they had gotten several visas. All they go by is what they see in the passport.

Blimey - I'm stunned!

So even in the same country where the visa has been issued - they do no record this in any type of computer system and the only evidence of a consulate or Embassy has is what is on the passport itself.

I might be missing something here, but is this not a workaround for the restricted amount of tourist visa applications that can be made back to back, by simply applying for a new passport after using up the max amount of back to back tourist visa applications?

The embassy probably has some records but not to where they could easily enter a name and do a search. All they may have is the info they entered to print out the visa stickers. To confirm anything they would have go back to the files where the application is kept.

Great response UbonJoe - Precise and useful information people can act upon knowing what the situation actually is - Grateful for your feedback

[chrisinth]

I don't know your country of origin but if you were British, you cannot have a new passport until you have handed in or sent off ( if living abroad ) your old passport which they then clip the corner from and return it to you along with your new one.

Actually that is not true. UK can issue two valid passports, usually the reason is the need to travel to contrasting countries.

True paz, and I think it should also be noted that when new UK passports are applied for in Thailand, the old ones are not handed in or sent off (to put Scouse right), but are kept as a form of ID in the Kingdom of Thailand.

They are however cancelled as soon as the reissue of the new passport begins so cannot be used as travel documents.

Edited for clarity

Edited July 8, 2015 by chrisinth

[spambot]

I can see that handing in your old passport is a normal requirement, but what happens if you keep losing your passport and have no passport to hand over?

[Scouse123]

I don't know your country of origin but if you were British, you cannot have a new passport until you have handed in or sent off ( if living abroad ) your old passport which they then clip the corner from and return it to you along with your new one.

Actually that is not true. UK can issue two valid passports, usually the reason is the need to travel to contrasting countries.

Paz,

Actually not very fair in your response as you have misquoted me (#post 20) by missing off the last two lines which were the part of the post which dealt with two passports, which I already mentioned and said I had myself!

I accept my error from Chrisinth, who corrected me on applying for the passport abroad in such as Thailand and retaining it as I.D. until the new one arrived and will keep that in my head for future reference. I have not had that bridge to cross so I just presumed it would work the same as UK, however, once the new one is issued with the exception of it acting as I.D.. it is cancelled and therefore useless for travel purposes but could serve to assist in transferring visa stamps etc.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Scouse123

[Old Croc]

I don't believe Thailand is capable of full integration of computer systems in line with most western countries these days.

You may not believe it, but as mentioned above Immigration had since many years a working database for all their activities. It is accessible from any border post beside Immigration offices. They also have integration with the national and international warrant database, international lost and stolene database etc.

If so, as can be seen from the OP's case, officers seem incapable of interrogating this extensive system to find a visa detail at the border thus rendering the system useless.

All member countries of Interpol have access to their SLTD and other data bases.

[paz]

If so, as can be seen from the OP's case, officers seem incapable of interrogating this extensive s

The thing is, they can interrogate the system, find the previous entry and visa details, and that's not enough anyway. The physical visa must be produced at entry, otherwise it would be called e-visa. I guess it's the same for many other countries too.

Edited July 8, 2015 by paz

[jacko45k]

Doesn't seem out of the ordinary, in fact the embassy once fixed my old passport to the back of my new one as it contained a valid visa.

If you don't have the visa with you how would you expect to utilise it..... it isn't an E-Ticket.

Edited July 8, 2015 by jacko45k

[spambot]

If so, as can be seen from the OP's case, officers seem incapable of interrogating this extensive s

The thing is, they can interrogate the system, find the previous entry and visa details, and that's not enough anyway. The physical visa must be produced at entry, otherwise it would be called e-visa. I guess it's the same for many other countries too.

Good point paz - And that is essentially the real difference between a paper based visa and an electronic Visa.

An-Visa is a computerized record and hence must be part of a dedicated application system networking across some part of the enterprise.

The access to view this e-visa data depends upon the system first being set up and accessed by the end user for data entry made specifically by the end user.

If it has not been set up by the end user and rather then consulate / Embassy issuing the visa - Then the issues are different and you then need to understand what is it that they are required (or actually do) and what information is then place into what type of system, then need to understand if this is built to support networking enterprise access and finally identify who would be granted this access through the notwork to the information in the system - This is a large scale enterprise control management project that is costly to set up and expensive to manage.

This type of work competence, financial commitment and return on investment calculation - Is unlikely to warrant consideration especially if its set up just to provide a convenience service for users (visa owners) that do not have their original visa in their new passport.

The only other reason I can think that this might be implemented would be to check on false paper based visa stamps, but this requires holding data on every single passport that gets a visa and if Thailand gets 20+ million visitors every year with a reasonable percentage using paper based visa then in just a few years the system would become unmanageable.

And all for what....To check on forged stamps or possibly help users who forgot their old passport on entry - Even in Thailand this is probably not going to make much sense and get implemented.

[Old Croc]

If so, as can be seen from the OP's case, officers seem incapable of interrogating this extensive s

The thing is, they can interrogate the system, find the previous entry and visa details, and that's not enough anyway. The physical visa must be produced at entry, otherwise it would be called e-visa. I guess it's the same for many other countries too.

Why is it not enough? If they can confirm a valid visa is held by an arriving pax ,even if they cant produce a physical label or stamp, why not pay that visa to assist the client?

Is the system only to be used for compliance activities?

There is a difference between an e-visa and a data base containing all visa details, and if you have, and correctly use, a visa database why the necessity to produce and sight a label on arrival?

I can tell you from personal experience that a fully computerised visa data base, used correctly, will almost completely obviate forged and bogus visas and passports.

[IMA_FARANG]

There is a letter you should have been given when you got a new passport to take to your local immigration to have them copy your old visa information into your new passport.

I just did this in May when I got a new U.S. passport to replace my old expiring U.S passport. On 5 June 2015 I went with my embassy letter to immigration in Bangkok and had my info done and the stamps transferred.

If I were to get my new passport now, but my next trip to immigration isn't until next March, could I just wait and do everything (both the transferring of the stamps & my annual extension) in one visit? Or does immigration get mad if you don't come see them right away as soon as you get a new passport?

I don't know your country of origin but if you were British, you cannot have a new passport until you have handed in or sent off ( if living abroad ) your old passport which they then clip the corner from and return it to you along with your new one.

So unless you are using two passports, I don't understand how you will do it?

I'm a United Statesian & never gotten a passport renewed. They will mutilate the old passport even though it still has some months of validity?

-------------------------------

From my recent experience with getting an new U.S passport they do not mutilate your old passport, but they do stamp the word EXPIRED in red Ink on the first page of the old passport when you get a new one.

And yes, you can get a new U.S. passport if your old one has not yet expired..... I did as my old passport was down to only 5 months left before it expired.....so I applied for a new passport.

Received my new one on 5 June 2015.

Old one from 2006 was a 30 page passport..... new one is a 52 page passport.

The U.S State department will no longer add extra pages to a U.S passport after 2016, all U.S. passports after that time will automatically be a 52 page passport.

Edited July 9, 2015 by IMA_FARANG

[IMA_FARANG]

I already had two 3 month Non O stamps in the new passport which I pointed out to immigration, and they rightfully said "but yeah, how do we know that Non O hasn't expired"?

As Old Croc mentioned, many countries keep an electronic record of these things these days, not that hard to do actually.

I don't believe Thailand is capable of full integration of computer systems in line with most western countries these days.

It is a country built on a mountain of (largely unnecessary) paperwork. If they were to suddenly become fully computerized I believe about half of all office workers would have nothing to do, and it would create a massive unemployment problem.

Might have to wait a few more decades for it to become first world, and then many of wouldn't want to live here anyway.

-----------------------------------

Right, in Thailand buying equipment and maintaining it costs money..... labor on the other hand is still cheap to hire and keeps the unemployment figure low also.

[roblgs]

If so, as can be seen from the OP's case, officers seem incapable of interrogating this extensive s

The thing is, they can interrogate the system, find the previous entry and visa details, and that's not enough anyway. The physical visa must be produced at entry, otherwise it would be called e-visa. I guess it's the same for many other countries too.

Why is it not enough? If they can confirm a valid visa is held by an arriving pax ,even if they cant produce a physical label or stamp, why not pay that visa to assist the client?

Is the system only to be used for compliance activities?

There is a difference between an e-visa and a data base containing all visa details, and if you have, and correctly use, a visa database why the necessity to produce and sight a label on arrival?

I can tell you from personal experience that a fully computerised visa data base, used correctly, will almost completely obviate forged and bogus visas and passports.

E-visas do not require presentation of a physical stamp to be accepted, assuming they can be seen in the system, because by their nature no physical stamp exists...

They DO require that the passport to which they are cross-referenced IS available for physical inspection... In that case they are not checking the passport for a visa stamp, but that you have in your possession the passport to which the e-visa is associated, and that it identifies YOU.

In the case of the OP, if it was an e-visa that was associated with his old passport, the fact that he did not have his old passport with him would mean the entry on that e-visa could not be accepted since corresponding identification was missing.

Try going into Australia with an e-visa, but without the passport to which it's linked. Don't think you'd be getting very far.

[stevenl]

I don't know your country of origin but if you were British, you cannot have a new passport until you have handed in or sent off ( if living abroad ) your old passport which they then clip the corner from and return it to you along with your new one.

Actually that is not true. UK can issue two valid passports, usually the reason is the need to travel to contrasting countries.

Paz,

Actually not very fair in your response as you have misquoted me (#post 20) by missing off the last two lines which were the part of the post which dealt with two passports, which I already mentioned and said I had myself!

<snip>

I presume the part you edited was were the last 2 lines about you having 2 passports? If so, the edit was made at the same time as Paz's post, so likely he posted before you edited, or for sure he had not seen your edit before he posted.

[Old Croc]

Of course you need your current passport to travel. That is your ultimate identifying document.

If a, still valid, visa has been issued in an expired passport a scan of the new passport will still find the visa details in the data base. The record may be updated to reflect the current passport number.

[paz]

Why is it not enough? If they can confirm a valid visa is held by an arriving pax ,even if they cant produce a physical label or stamp, why not pay that visa to assist the client?

Is the system only to be used for compliance activities?

There is a difference between an e-visa and a data base containing all visa details, and if you have, and correctly use, a visa database why the necessity to produce and sight a label on arrival?

I can tell you from personal experience that a fully computerised visa data base, used correctly, will almost completely obviate forged and bogus visas and passports.

It is not enough because so Thailand Immigration dictates, and good luck changing that. We can argue until blue in the face but that won't change facts: to enter Thailand a physical visa is needed - one can't assume differently.

Edited July 9, 2015 by paz