Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[brewsterbudgen]

Articles posted in The Sun doesnt count really , you wont find a worse tabloid than that, They can print anything,

A bit like this thread!

[JLCrab]

The Sun article linked above was a reprint of copy written by Jonathan Samuels of SKY News:

By JONATHAN SAMUELS, Koh Samui, Thailand

— Jonathan Samuels is a correspondent for Sky News

From Mr. Samuels WikiPedia bio:

As Sky News Chief Correspondent, Samuels has covered the main domestic and international stories. In the last few years he has reported from Iraq, covered the crisis in Zimbabwe, broadcast from the Falkland Islands, was in the United States for the recent election and covered the conflicts between Israel and Gaza, and Israel and Lebanon.

Edited July 14, 2015 by JLCrab

[Si Thea01]

Articles posted in The Sun doesnt count really , you wont find a worse tabloid than that, They can print anything,

A bit like this thread!

Honesty at last.

[Si Thea01]

The Sun article inked above was a reprint of copy written by Jonathan Samuels of SKY News:

By JONATHAN SAMUELS, Koh Samui, Thailand

— Jonathan Samuels is a correspondent for Sky News

From Mr. Samuels WikiPedia bio:

As Sky News Chief Correspondent, Samuels has covered the main domestic and international stories. In the last few years he has reported from Iraq, covered the crisis in Zimbabwe, broadcast from the Falkland Islands, was in the United States for the recent election and covered the conflicts between Israel and Gaza, and Israel and Lebanon.

So what does this prove? That he's been around. He might be talented and well travelled but does it mean that whatever he says is gospel?

[thailandchilli]

The Sun, can't think of a worse rag and carries little credibility in my eyes or most people. BUT it is the highest read tabloid in the UK with a readership of 13.5 million people every week. If there was anyone in the UK that was not aware of this case then they will be now, fantastic!!

Nice to see they added a little credibility this time by using the report published by Jonathan Samuels who was actually at the trial and has first hand accounts

Edited July 14, 2015 by thailandchilli

[Rykbanlor]

The Sun article inked above was a reprint of copy written by Jonathan Samuels of SKY News:

By JONATHAN SAMUELS, Koh Samui, Thailand

— Jonathan Samuels is a correspondent for Sky News

From Mr. Samuels WikiPedia bio:

As Sky News Chief Correspondent, Samuels has covered the main domestic and international stories. In the last few years he has reported from Iraq, covered the crisis in Zimbabwe, broadcast from the Falkland Islands, was in the United States for the recent election and covered the conflicts between Israel and Gaza, and Israel and Lebanon.

So what does this prove? That he's been around. He might be talented and well travelled but does it mean that whatever he says is gospel?

I think JLC was just trying to clarify where it came from and that the dude is a veteran journalist. I didn't notice him making any claims about the article itself.

[Oziex1]

Articles posted in The Sun doesnt count really , you wont find a worse tabloid than that, They can print anything,

OK I am not in the UK, however isn't The Sun a popular tabloid that may be read by people looking for a value for money getaway to Thailand.

If it stops a few spending their hard earned in Koh Tao then it's all good.

[Gweiloman]

Articles posted in The Sun doesnt count really , you wont find a worse tabloid than that, They can print anything,

Maybe so, but anything false or inaccurate about the article?

[Rykbanlor]

Articles posted in The Sun doesnt count really , you wont find a worse tabloid than that, They can print anything,

Maybe so, but anything false or inaccurate about the article?

There does appear to be a CCTV image of an erroneous couple, other than that.......

[sambum]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Well said, and I cannot help wondering how many heinous crimes like this have been covered up, and pinned on some unfortunate soul(s). I guess this case is getting a lot more attention because of the social media aspect, and the fact that it was a young, attractive foreign couple who were hideously murdered. I'm sure it's not the first time, however. Let's hope this brings more attention to such cases.

David Milgaard was convicted in 1970 in Canada for the rape and murder of a nursing assistant. He was only 17 years old by then but had a rap sheet as long as your arm by then to.

David spent 23 years in prison during the better part of his life. From age 17 until age 40. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence, and a testimony of what he would call a good friend. With the introduction of DNA as evidence, and his friend admitting he only accused David for the $2,000 reward money, David was finally released. Mostly by the help of his mother who never lost faith in him. He was paid 10 Million CAD Dollars for the governments mistake.

Through DNA they found the real rapist and murdered. He was renting the basement suit of his friend and very close to where the Nursing Assistant was raped and murdered. He was in jail at the time for another rape, but also before David was convicted he was charged with another rape and was on Parole. I admitted to his crime after his DNA Matched.

If ever there was a Key Stones Cop Scenario, or the prize for the Biggest Police Blunder in the World, then Canada gets the 1st Prize on this case hands down! The only thing that could make this whole story worst was that we had the Death Penalty then, and he was dead before proven innocents. The Moto for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is "We always get our Man!". They just never admit that they always get the right man.

Yea, of misguided faith! What makes you think your legal system is so much better? Have you looked in your own backyard for junk, before you come here? But it is better, you claim! Do you think for a second David Milgaard feels the same way as you do, and he has experience in the Canadian Legal System, where chances are you have had no dealing of your own in your own legal system?

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.

But now this case surrounds Migrant Workers Rights! How the Local Police here, and around the World, should conduct Interrogations! How they should conduct their Crime Scene Investigation. How they should report news. How their DNA Evidence should be thrown out because it does not live up to the standards, you THINK you have, but do not! How this case is so important to change things like as stated as faults in thiss World.

Why bring the World Problems to Thailand to solve? Did they aske for that? Do they need this? Solve your own problems back home first. I mean this to Andy to. Especially to Andy! I don't mind at all to have a debate here with him on this subject. Link this to him! Let's Go!

The Thai Police are trying to solve a Rape and Murderer case here which I feel confident they have spent a lot of extra Manpower and Resources on to do. A lot more then I would spend for sure. They have been Mum (quiet) as they are ordered to do by that by their Superiors. This is not uncommon. Police don't talk much about the case in your country to. But the Defense sure does and throughout everything to twist everything, which is there job. I think?

Up-to-You

. .

.

"Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.k t"

Back to your old condescending, patronising style GB, and "Uncle Goldbuggy"? Seriously, that is worrying, coupled with the "Victoria" scenario.

Edited July 14, 2015 by sambum

[Gweiloman]

David Milgaard was convicted in 1970 in Canada for the rape and murder of a nursing assistant. He was only 17 years old by then but had a rap sheet as long as your arm by then to.

David spent 23 years in prison during the better part of his life. From age 17 until age 40. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence, and a testimony of what he would call a good friend. With the introduction of DNA as evidence, and his friend admitting he only accused David for the $2,000 reward money, David was finally released. Mostly by the help of his mother who never lost faith in him. He was paid 10 Million CAD Dollars for the governments mistake.

Through DNA they found the real rapist and murdered. He was renting the basement suit of his friend and very close to where the Nursing Assistant was raped and murdered. He was in jail at the time for another rape, but also before David was convicted he was charged with another rape and was on Parole. I admitted to his crime after his DNA Matched.

If ever there was a Key Stones Cop Scenario, or the prize for the Biggest Police Blunder in the World, then Canada gets the 1st Prize on this case hands down! The only thing that could make this whole story worst was that we had the Death Penalty then, and he was dead before proven innocents. The Moto for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is "We always get our Man!". They just never admit that they always get the right man.

Yea, of misguided faith! What makes you think your legal system is so much better? Have you looked in your own backyard for junk, before you come here? But it is better, you claim! Do you think for a second David Milgaard feels the same way as you do, and he has experience in the Canadian Legal System, where chances are you have had no dealing of your own in your own legal system?

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.

But now this case surrounds Migrant Workers Rights! How the Local Police here, and around the World, should conduct Interrogations! How they should conduct their Crime Scene Investigation. How they should report news. How their DNA Evidence should be thrown out because it does not live up to the standards, you THINK you have, but do not! How this case is so important to change things like as stated as faults in thiss World.

Why bring the World Problems to Thailand to solve? Did they aske for that? Do they need this? Solve your own problems back home first. I mean this to Andy to. Especially to Andy! I don't mind at all to have a debate here with him on this subject. Link this to him! Let's Go!

The Thai Police are trying to solve a Rape and Murderer case here which I feel confident they have spent a lot of extra Manpower and Resources on to do. A lot more then I would spend for sure. They have been Mum (quiet) as they are ordered to do by that by their Superiors. This is not uncommon. Police don't talk much about the case in your country to. But the Defense sure does and throughout everything to twist everything, which is there job. I think?

Up-to-You

. .

.

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.k t

Back to your old condescending, patronising style GB, and "Uncle Goldbuggy"? Seriously, that is worrying, coupled with the "Victoria" scenario.

Uncle Goldbuggy's "facts" (strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.) are as credible and uncontestable as the RTP's story, lol

edit: non-relevant nested posts deleted

Edited July 14, 2015 by Gweiloman

[Kannikapor88]

This whole thing is a farce. It is obvious that much effort is put into the coverup. it shows connections with police, mafia and even politicians.

One needs to ask , what kind of country is this. How low can they go to pin a death sentence on innocent people to cover their trail.

Foreigners should let their voices heard all over the world. let their media know and let this destination be exposed for what it is. if we foreigners sit idle and continue to pump billions into this economy and fatten these criminals , then wee too have to share a guilty conscience.

Tourist need to know what the corruption and justice system here is like before they spend their hard earned cash. we should never , never help crime to flourish.

100% agree with you Waden. Having lived here and in other "developing" countries with similar levels of corruption and accepted it as part of life there, this case has really revealed how despicable the situation is here from top to bottom and is causing me to seriously re-evaluate my stay.

I am comforted though by the fact maybe, just maybe, all the international attention could bring the beginnings of change. That is why we must keep attention focused and give Andy all the help we can. Maybe that will also be a very small consolation for the tragic loss of 2 young lives although it will likely give scant comfort to the families.

I can only agree with you - This whole dispicable case and the disgusting behaviour of people in top Places makes me wanna move on to another place - I too have earlier lived in a corrupt infested 3rd World country in Africa but nothing comes even close to this ...

[Gweiloman]

Articles posted in The Sun doesnt count really , you wont find a worse tabloid than that, They can print anything,

Maybe so, but anything false or inaccurate about the article?

There does appear to be a CCTV image of an erroneous couple, other than that.......

I had pointed this out in an earlier post (as you know) but it's really a by the by and not significant to the article in question

[StealthEnergiser]

Articles posted in The Sun doesnt count really , you wont find a worse tabloid than that, They can print anything,

OK I am not in the UK, however isn't The Sun a popular tabloid that may be read by people looking for a value for money getaway to Thailand.

If it stops a few spending their hard earned in Koh Tao then it's all good.

TAT thailand Facebook will most likely get complaints about all this and they will be aware of this article and others coming up around the world the will soon go into damage control with more promoting ,Instead of helping the innocent B2 find the truth.

Threatening translaters used by foreign press is not a good idea . These deaths were bad enough but then damaging other innocent peoples lives is despicable.

[docshock13]

It would be fairly telling if The Sun was to be blocked here in Thailand (like another UK paper was blocked for reasons that cannot obviously be mentioned here) as a result of the publication of this article.

[Rykbanlor]

Articles posted in The Sun doesnt count really , you wont find a worse tabloid than that, They can print anything,

Maybe so, but anything false or inaccurate about the article?

There does appear to be a CCTV image of an erroneous couple, other than that.......

I had pointed this out in an earlier post (as you know) but it's really a by the by and not significant to the article in question

Agreed, it's just a bit of sloppy editing that shouldn't have got through but doesn't essentially affect the article.

[Si Thea01]

The Sun article inked above was a reprint of copy written by Jonathan Samuels of SKY News:

By JONATHAN SAMUELS, Koh Samui, Thailand

— Jonathan Samuels is a correspondent for Sky News

From Mr. Samuels WikiPedia bio:

As Sky News Chief Correspondent, Samuels has covered the main domestic and international stories. In the last few years he has reported from Iraq, covered the crisis in Zimbabwe, broadcast from the Falkland Islands, was in the United States for the recent election and covered the conflicts between Israel and Gaza, and Israel and Lebanon.

So what does this prove? That he's been around. He might be talented and well travelled but does it mean that whatever he says is gospel?

I think JLC was just trying to clarify where it came from and that the dude is a veteran journalist. I didn't notice him making any claims about the article itself.

I can see what he was doing, just having a niggle. You bite well. I didn't say he was making any claims, so why have you brought this into the equation? JLC is quite capable of replying, so why do you need to answer for him. And should I need a serve, he'll no doubt give me one, if so inclined.. You and many others have a bad habit of doing this. Yes, you can have your opinion and provide answers if something is directed at you but please tell me why do you take it upon yourself to answer for others?

[StealthEnergiser]

Found this on another site looking for the truth

Edited July 14, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[BoristheBlade]

The Sun, can't think of a worse rag and carries little credibility in my eyes or most people. BUT it is the highest read tabloid in the UK with a readership of 13.5 million people every week. If there was anyone in the UK that was not aware of this case then they will be now, fantastic!!

Nice to see they added a little credibility this time by using the report published by Jonathan Samuels who was actually at the trial and has first hand accounts

The hole is getting deeper by the day for Thailand and the RTP, and its great to see, just a tragedy the murders of 2 young people had to start it.

[Peabody]

I wonder if any of the suspects (and not just the 2B) are left-handed? Looking at the major wound and the rocks around the body, the perpetrator probably was standing to the left side when the skull was fractured. The wide wound is consistent with the wide blade of a hoe- it could certainly be compared to see if it matched.. The angled break in the skull would seem to indicate that the blow was struck at a downward angle from the left. It would be difficult for a RH person to strike that blow (try it). The angle of the fracture and the rocks above her body indicate that the blow was not struck from a person standing above her head. The blood spatter on the rock to her right would seem to indicate the the blow was struck at that location, not that the body was moved from another location. Detailed CS pics would make these determinations easier, but they appear to have been lost, due to "...lack of money...".

Was there ever a re-enactment of the crime? Would be interesting to see how the re-enactor handled the hoe

Actually, there was an re-enactment of the crime, and photos clearly showed the police directing the totally clueless boys as to what to do. And they used a metal dustpan for the hoe. The whole thing was a completely staged set up by the BIB.

One of the long-handled streetsweeper types? If so, how was he holding it: RH or LH?

[johnnytuc]

Articles posted in The Sun doesnt count really , you wont find a worse tabloid than that, They can print anything,

Are you mad...The sun like it or not is by far the biggest selling paper in the UK. So you think it means nothing. ask Neil Kinnock, hopefully someone on this forum will know what I mean.

[fish fingers]

I really, really hope the Defence keep their Ace Card for when it matters. Personally think they should not have mentioned anything more than the fact they have evidence that contradicts the prosecution. That would have really put panic through the court.

My worry is that the Brit police have already explained to the Foreign office who then repeated to their good thai friends what this evidence is..

As for Prayuth, its not libellous to say he's a bit of a xenophobe. He's backed the investigation and I believe he knows exactly what is going on. When the families can't take the BS anymore I hope they properly embarrass him.

[uniquefarang]

The local media aren't touching it as it is now showing thailand in a bad light. A very bad light. It has become a sensitive topic now with evidence of police incompitance, sinister forces and the realisation that the B2 are innocent and the real murderers are still at large. It is potentially very embarrassing for some extremely powerful people who endorsed the polices work initially and in fact rewarded it.

This story is not bringing hapiness back to the people.

Remember the story of the chinese tourist killed at chiang mai zoo zip lining recently was withheld a few days because a certain someone was visiting chiang mai at the time and they didnt want to spoil his "bringing happiness" visit with bad news.....

I think they are spending this time furiously thinking of ways to finish this without important people losing face, certain people not being implicated (after all, thats been paid for already) and have the simplest excuse to declare a mistrail and a low ranking guy take the fall for screwing up.

Or they might just rush through a guilty verdict, its only 3 judges decision after all, show the world a big middle finger, execute them on the quiet or lock them up forever and just carry on as normal. That wouldnt surprise me one bit unfortunately.

I just finished reading the article in the Thai edition of Khaosod to see if any of the information in their English article appears in the Thai version. Anyone reading the two articles would think they were reading about two completely different cases, one case that is airtight (Thai Khaosod story) and another case that is a travesty of justice (English Khaosod story).

[boomerangutang]

I've not seen anyone or any report suggesting the hoe was not used to inflict the horrendous injuries to Hannah. But what has been reported is that there is a possibility that she was shot first and the hoe was then used in an attempt to cover the evidence.

Some posters may not fully understand how intense of a weapon a Thai-style hoe can be. This hoe-as-weapon topic was discussed in depth - back in Sept/Oct, but perhaps we have some newbies here who need a refresher. In the US, the Asian type of hoe would be called a 'corn-row hoe'. It's considerably bigger, thicker, and heavier than your average farang-type hoe. If a user wants to crack rocks or cement, he uses the back end of it. That's yet another reason, if more were needed, why the RTP reenactment was faulty. They had the flummoxed Burmese guy acting like he was using the sharp end of the hoe. Any Asian wielding that hoe as a weapon would have used the blunt end - it's harder to deflect, and more damaging to a body.

Article in Sun would have been more credible if they hadn't made such a blatant mistake as posting the wrong picture of Hannah and David.

I think you're wrong. r u referring to the pic at taken at the bar, in the upper left corner? That's them. And it reinforces the assertion that most observers have: that D and H weren't a romantic couple, but rather were friends. Evidence indicates, David left the bars earlier than Hannah. After getting to his room, be conversed with Chris Ware, and decided to go out and look for Hannah, because he was concerned for her well-being. Earlier, he had probably seen one or more local guys coming on to her intensely. By the time David found her, at the rocks at the south end of the beach, it was crunch time, and the rest is sad history we're trying to unravel here in these posts. It would be nice to get assistance, in gauging what really happened, from RTP detectives, but they're proving to be as useful as a pig fart is to jet propulsion. Brit experts are no better, thus far.

[GOLDBUGGY]

September 25, 2014

This Media Report claims that DNA of 2 Asian Men found at the Crime Scene was in fact sent to Singapore for advanced analysis.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/thailand-murder-probe-last-photo-of-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-emerges/story-fnizu68q-1227070475319

They decided to keep it in-house shortly after that suggestion was mooted. Did that coincide with the replacement of the investigating copper too?

I did not write this Media Report nor did I offer my opinion on it. If you disagree with that report then may I suggest you take it up with the author.

No it's fine. I was just pointing out that whilst that was initially apparently considered/rumoured it didn't actually happen. But you would know that if you had followed the case back then?

Only you claim it never happened.

Do you have some Media Link to indicate this?

No?

Figures!

Blah! Blah! Blah!....the Blah! Blah! Blah!

[docshock13]

I've not seen anyone or any report suggesting the hoe was not used to inflict the horrendous injuries to Hannah. But what has been reported is that there is a possibility that she was shot first and the hoe was then used in an attempt to cover the evidence.

Some posters may not fully understand how intense of a weapon a Thai-style hoe can be. This hoe-as-weapon topic was discussed in depth - back in Sept/Oct, but perhaps we have some newbies here who need a refresher. In the US, the Asian type of hoe would be called a 'corn-row hoe'. It's considerably bigger, thicker, and heavier than your average farang-type hoe. If a user wants to crack rocks or cement, he uses the back end of it. That's yet another reason, if more were needed, why the RTP reenactment was faulty. They had the flummoxed Burmese guy acting like he was using the sharp end of the hoe. Any Asian wielding that hoe as a weapon would have used the blunt end - it's harder to deflect, and more damaging to a body.

Article in Sun would have been more credible if they hadn't made such a blatant mistake as posting the wrong picture of Hannah and David.

I think you're wrong. r u referring to the pic at taken at the bar, in the upper left corner? That's them. And it reinforces the assertion that most observers have: that D and H weren't a romantic couple, but rather were friends. Evidence indicates, David left the bars earlier than Hannah. After getting to his room, be conversed with Chris Ware, and decided to go out and look for Hannah, because he was concerned for her well-being. Earlier, he had probably seen one or more local guys coming on to her intensely. By the time David found her, at the rocks at the south end of the beach, it was crunch time, and the rest is sad history we're trying to unravel here in these posts. It would be nice to get assistance, in gauging what really happened, from RTP detectives, but they're proving to be as useful as a pig fart is to jet propulsion. Brit experts are no better, thus far.

I believe gweilo may have been referring to the cctv capture, which IMO doesn't look anything like the victims.

[loonodingle]

I wonder if any of the suspects (and not just the 2B) are left-handed? Looking at the major wound and the rocks around the body, the perpetrator probably was standing to the left side when the skull was fractured. The wide wound is consistent with the wide blade of a hoe- it could certainly be compared to see if it matched.. The angled break in the skull would seem to indicate that the blow was struck at a downward angle from the left. It would be difficult for a RH person to strike that blow (try it). The angle of the fracture and the rocks above her body indicate that the blow was not struck from a person standing above her head. The blood spatter on the rock to her right would seem to indicate the the blow was struck at that location, not that the body was moved from another location. Detailed CS pics would make these determinations easier, but they appear to have been lost, due to "...lack of money...".

Was there ever a re-enactment of the crime? Would be interesting to see how the re-enactor handled the hoe

Actually, there was an re-enactment of the crime, and photos clearly showed the police directing the totally clueless boys as to what to do. And they used a metal dustpan for the hoe. The whole thing was a completely staged set up by the BIB.

Correct I have a picture of it

[Oziex1]

Found this on another site looking for the truth

sg.jpg

sg1.jpg

I think you found it.

[loonodingle]

The Sun article inked above was a reprint of copy written by Jonathan Samuels of SKY News:

By JONATHAN SAMUELS, Koh Samui, Thailand

— Jonathan Samuels is a correspondent for Sky News

From Mr. Samuels WikiPedia bio:

As Sky News Chief Correspondent, Samuels has covered the main domestic and international stories. In the last few years he has reported from Iraq, covered the crisis in Zimbabwe, broadcast from the Falkland Islands, was in the United States for the recent election and covered the conflicts between Israel and Gaza, and Israel and Lebanon.

So what does this prove? That he's been around. He might be talented and well travelled but does it mean that whatever he says is gospel?

Lord Give me Strength!!!!!

[fish fingers]

I've not seen anyone or any report suggesting the hoe was not used to inflict the horrendous injuries to Hannah. But what has been reported is that there is a possibility that she was shot first and the hoe was then used in an attempt to cover the evidence.

Some posters may not fully understand how intense of a weapon a Thai-style hoe can be. This hoe-as-weapon topic was discussed in depth - back in Sept/Oct, but perhaps we have some newbies here who need a refresher. In the US, the Asian type of hoe would be called a 'corn-row hoe'. It's considerably bigger, thicker, and heavier than your average farang-type hoe. If a user wants to crack rocks or cement, he uses the back end of it. That's yet another reason, if more were needed, why the RTP reenactment was faulty. They had the flummoxed Burmese guy acting like he was using the sharp end of the hoe. Any Asian wielding that hoe as a weapon would have used the blunt end - it's harder to deflect, and more damaging to a body.

Article in Sun would have been more credible if they hadn't made such a blatant mistake as posting the wrong picture of Hannah and David.

I think you're wrong. r u referring to the pic at taken at the bar, in the upper left corner? That's them. And it reinforces the assertion that most observers have: that D and H weren't a romantic couple, but rather were friends. Evidence indicates, David left the bars earlier than Hannah. After getting to his room, be conversed with Chris Ware, and decided to go out and look for Hannah, because he was concerned for her well-being. Earlier, he had probably seen one or more local guys coming on to her intensely. By the time David found her, at the rocks at the south end of the beach, it was crunch time, and the rest is sad history we're trying to unravel here in these posts. It would be nice to get assistance, in gauging what really happened, from RTP detectives, but they're proving to be as useful as a pig fart is to jet propulsion. Brit experts are no better, thus far.

Well put and I think this is probably what happened. I doubt they were 'at it' on the beach but it was made to look that way.

Being that they were British victims, what I don't understand is that there was very likely a British subject involved or witnessed this murder. So in that case why didn't the British police bring him in for interrogation?