Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[DennisF]

I wonder if any of the suspects (and not just the 2B) are left-handed? Looking at the major wound and the rocks around the body, the perpetrator probably was standing to the left side when the skull was fractured. The wide wound is consistent with the wide blade of a hoe- it could certainly be compared to see if it matched.. The angled break in the skull would seem to indicate that the blow was struck at a downward angle from the left. It would be difficult for a RH person to strike that blow (try it). The angle of the fracture and the rocks above her body indicate that the blow was not struck from a person standing above her head. The blood spatter on the rock to her right would seem to indicate the the blow was struck at that location, not that the body was moved from another location. Detailed CS pics would make these determinations easier, but they appear to have been lost, due to "...lack of money...".

Was there ever a re-enactment of the crime? Would be interesting to see how the re-enactor handled the hoe

Actually, there was an re-enactment of the crime, and photos clearly showed the police directing the totally clueless boys as to what to do. And they used a metal dustpan for the hoe. The whole thing was a completely staged set up by the BIB.

Correct I have a picture of it

KEYSTONE cops.jpg

Good photoshop.

Just about sums up the whole case for the prosecution,

thanks for sharing

[DennisF]

I've not seen anyone or any report suggesting the hoe was not used to inflict the horrendous injuries to Hannah. But what has been reported is that there is a possibility that she was shot first and the hoe was then used in an attempt to cover the evidence.

Some posters may not fully understand how intense of a weapon a Thai-style hoe can be. This hoe-as-weapon topic was discussed in depth - back in Sept/Oct, but perhaps we have some newbies here who need a refresher. In the US, the Asian type of hoe would be called a 'corn-row hoe'. It's considerably bigger, thicker, and heavier than your average farang-type hoe. If a user wants to crack rocks or cement, he uses the back end of it. That's yet another reason, if more were needed, why the RTP reenactment was faulty. They had the flummoxed Burmese guy acting like he was using the sharp end of the hoe. Any Asian wielding that hoe as a weapon would have used the blunt end - it's harder to deflect, and more damaging to a body.

Article in Sun would have been more credible if they hadn't made such a blatant mistake as posting the wrong picture of Hannah and David.

I think you're wrong. r u referring to the pic at taken at the bar, in the upper left corner? That's them. And it reinforces the assertion that most observers have: that D and H weren't a romantic couple, but rather were friends. Evidence indicates, David left the bars earlier than Hannah. After getting to his room, be conversed with Chris Ware, and decided to go out and look for Hannah, because he was concerned for her well-being. Earlier, he had probably seen one or more local guys coming on to her intensely. By the time David found her, at the rocks at the south end of the beach, it was crunch time, and the rest is sad history we're trying to unravel here in these posts. It would be nice to get assistance, in gauging what really happened, from RTP detectives, but they're proving to be as useful as a pig fart is to jet propulsion. Brit experts are no better, thus far.

Well put and I think this is probably what happened. I doubt they were 'at it' on the beach but it was made to look that way.

Being that they were British victims, what I don't understand is that there was very likely a British subject involved or witnessed this murder. So in that case why didn't the British police bring him in for interrogation?

do not know who or who has not been questioned by the British police.

Stay tuned and try not to jump to conclusions.

I have it on very good authority that the team sent to Thailand were heavyweights and the cv of the crime scene detective is

impressive, as are the cv's of the other "observers".

My apologies, I cannot give more details than that but I sincerely believe there is more than 1 smoking gun.

Maybe the defence team are just playing the most obvious one... for now.

[StealthEnergiser]

I wonder if any of the suspects (and not just the 2B) are left-handed? Looking at the major wound and the rocks around the body, the perpetrator probably was standing to the left side when the skull was fractured. The wide wound is consistent with the wide blade of a hoe- it could certainly be compared to see if it matched.. The angled break in the skull would seem to indicate that the blow was struck at a downward angle from the left. It would be difficult for a RH person to strike that blow (try it). The angle of the fracture and the rocks above her body indicate that the blow was not struck from a person standing above her head. The blood spatter on the rock to her right would seem to indicate the the blow was struck at that location, not that the body was moved from another location. Detailed CS pics would make these determinations easier, but they appear to have been lost, due to "...lack of money...".

Was there ever a re-enactment of the crime? Would be interesting to see how the re-enactor handled the hoe

Actually, there was an re-enactment of the crime, and photos clearly showed the police directing the totally clueless boys as to what to do. And they used a metal dustpan for the hoe. The whole thing was a completely staged set up by the BIB.

Correct I have a picture of it

KEYSTONE cops.jpg

There was no need for the bullet proof vests I did not see one person with any anger in their eyes when they being taken to the crime scene only signs i noticed were signs of pity .

Its been said many most people suspected they were scape goats but under mafia control that cannot speak.

The only people upset were the directors of the show.

[loonodingle]

Good photoshop.

Just about sums up the whole case for the prosecution,

thanks for sharing

A Few more for you all. Ref Reconstruction etc.

These are observational pictures and do not imply any guilt by the party included for legal reasons.

[Basil B]

I've not seen anyone or any report suggesting the hoe was not used to inflict the horrendous injuries to Hannah. But what has been reported is that there is a possibility that she was shot first and the hoe was then used in an attempt to cover the evidence.

Some posters may not fully understand how intense of a weapon a Thai-style hoe can be. This hoe-as-weapon topic was discussed in depth - back in Sept/Oct, but perhaps we have some newbies here who need a refresher. In the US, the Asian type of hoe would be called a 'corn-row hoe'. It's considerably bigger, thicker, and heavier than your average farang-type hoe. If a user wants to crack rocks or cement, he uses the back end of it. That's yet another reason, if more were needed, why the RTP reenactment was faulty. They had the flummoxed Burmese guy acting like he was using the sharp end of the hoe. Any Asian wielding that hoe as a weapon would have used the blunt end - it's harder to deflect, and more damaging to a body.

Article in Sun would have been more credible if they hadn't made such a blatant mistake as posting the wrong picture of Hannah and David.

I think you're wrong. r u referring to the pic at taken at the bar, in the upper left corner? That's them. And it reinforces the assertion that most observers have: that D and H weren't a romantic couple, but rather were friends. Evidence indicates, David left the bars earlier than Hannah. After getting to his room, be conversed with Chris Ware, and decided to go out and look for Hannah, because he was concerned for her well-being. Earlier, he had probably seen one or more local guys coming on to her intensely. By the time David found her, at the rocks at the south end of the beach, it was crunch time, and the rest is sad history we're trying to unravel here in these posts. It would be nice to get assistance, in gauging what really happened, from RTP detectives, but they're proving to be as useful as a pig fart is to jet propulsion. Brit experts are no better, thus far.

Well put and I think this is probably what happened. I doubt they were 'at it' on the beach but it was made to look that way.

Being that they were British victims, what I don't understand is that there was very likely a British subject involved or witnessed this murder. So in that case why didn't the British police bring him in for interrogation?

Interrogation???

We do not use thumb screws, waterboarding, electrocution, etc, in the UK.

[catsanddogs]

sun.jpg

Cover-up in paradise EXCLUSIVE: Fears there won’t be justice in Thai beach murders trial

THE families of two Brits murdered on a paradise beach in Thailand may never see justice — amid fears of a police cover-up.

The killings of backpackers Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, last September cast a grim shadow over the holiday hotspot.

The suspicion of a cover-up is the latest twist in the trial of two Burmese migrants over the killings.

The case against Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both 22, has been riddled with controversy.

Thickset, menacing-looking Thai men hang around the court, glaring at witnesses and western journalists. We are told some are police officers in plain clothes

Sky News’ local Thai translator refused to return to court on day two of the trial saying she had been “frightened off by the mafia”.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6542764/Is-Thai-beach-murders-trial-a-cover-up.html

Not the most respected newspaper but at last some decent coverage for all to see.

[catsanddogs]

Do not know how reliable this is but an article in the BP on the 24th October 2014, indicates that two weeks after the murders, three people were arrested, the two who have since been charged and a friend, who was treated by Police as an eye witness. To what I do not know, as it does not stipulate but maybe this is what GB was referring to. It appears that his name I Maung. If I can locate it, why can't you? Maybe you should try a little harder, remember, seek and ye shall find.

Is this the eye witness that allegedly was having a drink with the defendants before going home to bed and not actually witnessing anything?

Can't help you with that the media report wasn't that detailed. It did list his name and said he was a friend, that's all I can say, other than to reiterate I cannot vouch for the veracity of the report.

if it was Muang (sp?) then according to previous reports it didn't sound like he witnessed anything of much significance to the case as he went home. I am open to correction though

You are correct. He (Muang) was with the B2 till about 1 am then went off to visit his gf. He then got back to the residence at around 3-4 am where the B2 were sound asleep.

Yes, that is the story that has been reported in the press, but the way things are going it would be foolish to believe anyone the RTP have alone in a room for a number of hours. Mon included.

[GOLDBUGGY]

David Milgaard was convicted in 1970 in Canada for the rape and murder of a nursing assistant. He was only 17 years old by then but had a rap sheet as long as your arm by then to.

David spent 23 years in prison during the better part of his life. From age 17 until age 40. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence, and a testimony of what he would call a good friend. With the introduction of DNA as evidence, and his friend admitting he only accused David for the $2,000 reward money, David was finally released. Mostly by the help of his mother who never lost faith in him. He was paid 10 Million CAD Dollars for the governments mistake.

Through DNA they found the real rapist and murdered. He was renting the basement suit of his friend and very close to where the Nursing Assistant was raped and murdered. He was in jail at the time for another rape, but also before David was convicted he was charged with another rape and was on Parole. I admitted to his crime after his DNA Matched.

If ever there was a Key Stones Cop Scenario, or the prize for the Biggest Police Blunder in the World, then Canada gets the 1st Prize on this case hands down! The only thing that could make this whole story worst was that we had the Death Penalty then, and he was dead before proven innocents. The Moto for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is "We always get our Man!". They just never admit that they always get the right man.

Yea, of misguided faith! What makes you think your legal system is so much better? Have you looked in your own backyard for junk, before you come here? But it is better, you claim! Do you think for a second David Milgaard feels the same way as you do, and he has experience in the Canadian Legal System, where chances are you have had no dealing of your own in your own legal system?

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.

But now this case surrounds Migrant Workers Rights! How the Local Police here, and around the World, should conduct Interrogations! How they should conduct their Crime Scene Investigation. How they should report news. How their DNA Evidence should be thrown out because it does not live up to the standards, you THINK you have, but do not! How this case is so important to change things like as stated as faults in thiss World.

Why bring the World Problems to Thailand to solve? Did they aske for that? Do they need this? Solve your own problems back home first. I mean this to Andy to. Especially to Andy! I don't mind at all to have a debate here with him on this subject. Link this to him! Let's Go!

The Thai Police are trying to solve a Rape and Murderer case here which I feel confident they have spent a lot of extra Manpower and Resources on to do. A lot more then I would spend for sure. They have been Mum (quiet) as they are ordered to do by that by their Superiors. This is not uncommon. Police don't talk much about the case in your country to. But the Defense sure does and throughout everything to twist everything, which is there job. I think?

Up-to-You

. .

.

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.k t

Back to your old condescending, patronising style GB, and "Uncle Goldbuggy"? Seriously, that is worrying, coupled with the "Victoria" scenario.

Uncle Goldbuggy's "facts" (strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.) are as credible and uncontestable as the RTP's story, lol

edit: non-relevant nested posts deleted

This is "worrying" to you! Why? Are you part of the Defensive Team or a Relative to one of the accused that you should worry about this? Or is it that you are just the type of person afraid to look at both sides of a coin to get at the truth?

"Uncontested"? Sure! So far! The beauty of my post is that in a few short weeks it will either be "contested" by the Defense if it is brought out in court, or it will not be. Ending it all.

But your Grand Conspiracy Theory lives on for many Generations. You can even pass this down to your Grandchildren. This is because none of it is based on actual fact or evidence, so it cannot be contested in a Court of Law anywhere because it does not exist. The is the "worrying" part!

[thailandchilli]

Do not know how reliable this is but an article in the BP on the 24th October 2014, indicates that two weeks after the murders, three people were arrested, the two who have since been charged and a friend, who was treated by Police as an eye witness. To what I do not know, as it does not stipulate but maybe this is what GB was referring to. It appears that his name I Maung. If I can locate it, why can't you? Maybe you should try a little harder, remember, seek and ye shall find.

Is this the eye witness that allegedly was having a drink with the defendants before going home to bed and not actually witnessing anything?

Can't help you with that the media report wasn't that detailed. It did list his name and said he was a friend, that's all I can say, other than to reiterate I cannot vouch for the veracity of the report.

if it was Muang (sp?) then according to previous reports it didn't sound like he witnessed anything of much significance to the case as he went home. I am open to correction though

This is Maungs story but bear in mind this was told to the Burmese Embassy team while Maung was still in custody and had the RTP and rotti pancake seller monitoring every word:

A third Burmese man, Maung Maung, who is being held in custody as a witness to a case involving the murder of two British tourists on the Thai island of Koh Tao, said he did not witness the killing.

His two friends, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, are currently being held on the neighbouring island of Koh Samui, pending charges of murder and rape.

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said he and a Burmese embassy team, which included Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand (MAT), was given permission by the Thai police on Koh Samui to question Maung Maung on Wednesday, although he noted that the interview was given in the presence of police officers.

“According to the testimony of Maung Maung, who shared accommodation with the two suspects [Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun], they were all three drinking and playing guitar on the night of the incident,” the Burmese lawyer told DVB. “Maung Maung said he left the scene at around 1am after they finished one bottle of beer each, but the two stayed – apparently they wanted to continue drinking and playing guitar. He did mention that there was an ‘English’ or ‘Western’ couple at some point.”

MAT representative Kyaw Thaung reconfirmed the testimony the legal team had been told. “After finishing the beer and cigarettes, Maung Maung said he told his two friends he was leaving, but they insisted on having more to drink, so he went back to the room and got an extra bottle of alcohol and took it to them. That was all around 1am,” he said.

“Maung Maung said he then went to see his girlfriend and did not return until 5am.”

More to read here http://www.dvb.no/news/third-burmese-said-he-did-not-witness-murder-burma-myanmar/

[smedly]

I totally disagree, he is getting near enough the same info fed to him as we are, he just hasn't seen the need to question it yet - why should he, he is likely being briefed by the chief of police why would he question him, I also believe that if (as we suspect) new reliable conflicting evidence on DNA tests from the UK is presented in court then he may start knocking a few heads and slamming a few tables

Or probably not. Why should he care about the B2? Nothing in the Thai media to concern him. The Uk evidence could be dismissed by the court unless it proves beyond reasonable doubt that Hannah was killed by a bullet. Anything less than that would be regarded as a mistake/contamination, even if the UK DNA showed a non-Asian presence. IMO, that is the reality.

he doesn't care about the B2, what he cares about is Thailands international image, if it is shown that police falsified DNA tests and other evidence then that will be quite damming to Thailand and the integrity of its police force (yes and don't bother commenting further on that one)

I am not expecting any evidence indicating a gun involvement, she was battered with something which is obvious, a gun would change nothing, the only time I have ever seen such damage with a firearm to the head was with a shotgun, what I am expecting is DNA tests that indicate there is no match to B2 anywhere on the body of Hannah

Tell me how can the defence show that police falsified DNA tests (the mainstay of their case) if there are no samples to prove that? Why do you think they were 'all used up', or 'lost'? Which is utter B/S, BTW. So as much as the international press might be baying foul, they will be brushed off as not understanding or making a mistake. It's happened already, and would be continued.

And your last point will be discredited as a UK mistake or contaminated, because we (the RTP) are the experts and we have records that show the B2 DNA matched the female victim. But there are no samples? Our records are factual, and signed as being so right up the gravy train.

Where I'm coming from, is that despite what is thrown against Thai officialdom, they will brush it off as being meddling interference from outside. It's a very insular country, as I'm sure you are aware, and very protective.

first of all both bodies will have been examined by a pathologist in the UK and samples taken

the rest of your post is reasonable

Evidence obtained officially in the UK may not be admissible in a Thai court but the damage the this whole debacle will still be obvious, and yes they can dismiss or discredit all they want - the only people that will be listening are those in the room with rather large noses

[Rykbanlor]

The Sun article inked above was a reprint of copy written by Jonathan Samuels of SKY News:

By JONATHAN SAMUELS, Koh Samui, Thailand

— Jonathan Samuels is a correspondent for Sky News

From Mr. Samuels WikiPedia bio:

As Sky News Chief Correspondent, Samuels has covered the main domestic and international stories. In the last few years he has reported from Iraq, covered the crisis in Zimbabwe, broadcast from the Falkland Islands, was in the United States for the recent election and covered the conflicts between Israel and Gaza, and Israel and Lebanon.

So what does this prove? That he's been around. He might be talented and well travelled but does it mean that whatever he says is gospel?

I think JLC was just trying to clarify where it came from and that the dude is a veteran journalist. I didn't notice him making any claims about the article itself.

I can see what he was doing, just having a niggle. You bite well. I didn't say he was making any claims, so why have you brought this into the equation? JLC is quite capable of replying, so why do you need to answer for him. And should I need a serve, he'll no doubt give me one, if so inclined.. You and many others have a bad habit of doing this. Yes, you can have your opinion and provide answers if something is directed at you but please tell me why do you take it upon yourself to answer for others?

I was taking part in a forum discussion. As far as I can see throughout this thread people are commenting and overlapping and whatnot. I just made a comment, I am sure JL Crab can answer for himself as I have seen already. You're a little condescending sir.

[boomerangutang]

I just saw a photo of Hannah's younger sister, Laura. Yet another of the many peripheral victims of that savage event of early morning Sept 15, 2014. Laura has had her elder sister ripped off. Let's hope Laura and other pretty girls like her act carefully if they go visit a Thai beach resort. Sorry to say, it's just not safe. We, the decent farang who reside in Thailand would love to welcome you with open arms, but you'd be safer going to other vacation areas. Try Burma or Laos, for example. Less tourists get murdered in Burma in a full year, than in one week at a little Thai island.

I meet a lot of backpackers during the run of the year. I met two pretty young gals who were traveling from NW USA. As they were leaving Haat Rin at Ko Pa Gnan (near KT), a motorbike with two Thai guys drove alongside, grabbed the girls' handbags and tried to pull it off. Luckily, the girls were in excellent physical shape (both were contenders for the US Winter Olympic team), and got away without crashing. When they got back to their guest house, they saw both their packs had been stolen. The Brit who owned the g.h. commenced to yell at them to not tell police, as it would reflect badly on him and his business. A week later (it took them a week in smoggy Bkk to get new passports), I met the gals at my work-exchange farmstead, a bit worse for wear. During a week with me at my farm, they lost their jitters and we had good times going to waterfalls and such, but it's doubtful they or their friends will ever want to visit Thailand ever again.

[smedly]

another thing that I can't understand is why clothing of the B2 was not examined for blood spatter, there is CCTV showing what they were wearing and yet nothing about forensic examination of clothes or even that the clothes were found in the residence, yes they could have changed shirts shorts shoes etc at some point in the late evening after work but I doubt it, just another unanswered observation

[BritTim]

I have not seen any discussion of the testimony of Dr. Chasit Yoohad as reported in http://bigstory.ap.org/urn:publicid:ap.org:eab0f9d26be242048e4dae7a83a9334e.

A second witness, Dr. Chasit Yoohad, gave testimony about his examination of the victims' bodies. He said he also performed a medical checkup of the two accused, and found them in good health. He said he asked through a translator if they had committed the crime, and they replied that they had.

This strikes me as strange. Why would the doctor be interrogating the Burmese? Of course, if the doctor was part of a frame up, the testimony is extremely convenient. It also does not state when this examination of the Burmese took place. I assume the translator was the pancake seller who has been accused of participating in the torture of the two accused. Even if the doctor's interrogation was carried out fairly, the two Burmese kids would probably not have dared risk renewed torture by claiming innocence. Further, how does anyone know that questions and answers from the pancake seller were correct translations?

Will the "translator" give evidence at the trial? Should this claim of the Burmese admission of guilt be regarded as hearsay if he does not?

Do the RTP not have recording equipment ?

Would they have wanted the "questioning" recorded? Also, recall that the original interrogation was not on RTP premises. It look place at a "safe house".

[little mary sunshine]

Never was evidence

[smedly]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Well said, and I cannot help wondering how many heinous crimes like this have been covered up, and pinned on some unfortunate soul(s). I guess this case is getting a lot more attention because of the social media aspect, and the fact that it was a young, attractive foreign couple who were hideously murdered. I'm sure it's not the first time, however. Let's hope this brings more attention to such cases.

David Milgaard was convicted in 1970 in Canada for the rape and murder of a nursing assistant. He was only 17 years old by then but had a rap sheet as long as your arm by then to.

David spent 23 years in prison during the better part of his life. From age 17 until age 40. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence, and a testimony of what he would call a good friend. With the introduction of DNA as evidence, and his friend admitting he only accused David for the $2,000 reward money, David was finally released. Mostly by the help of his mother who never lost faith in him. He was paid 10 Million CAD Dollars for the governments mistake.

Through DNA they found the real rapist and murdered. He was renting the basement suit of his friend and very close to where the Nursing Assistant was raped and murdered. He was in jail at the time for another rape, but also before David was convicted he was charged with another rape and was on Parole. I admitted to his crime after his DNA Matched.

If ever there was a Key Stones Cop Scenario, or the prize for the Biggest Police Blunder in the World, then Canada gets the 1st Prize on this case hands down! The only thing that could make this whole story worst was that we had the Death Penalty then, and he was dead before proven innocents. The Moto for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is "We always get our Man!". They just never admit that they always get the right man.

Yea, of misguided faith! What makes you think your legal system is so much better? Have you looked in your own backyard for junk, before you come here? But it is better, you claim! Do you think for a second David Milgaard feels the same way as you do, and he has experience in the Canadian Legal System, where chances are you have had no dealing of your own in your own legal system?

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.

But now this case surrounds Migrant Workers Rights! How the Local Police here, and around the World, should conduct Interrogations! How they should conduct their Crime Scene Investigation. How they should report news. How their DNA Evidence should be thrown out because it does not live up to the standards, you THINK you have, but do not! How this case is so important to change things like as stated as faults in thiss World.

Why bring the World Problems to Thailand to solve? Did they aske for that? Do they need this? Solve your own problems back home first. I mean this to Andy to. Especially to Andy! I don't mind at all to have a debate here with him on this subject. Link this to him! Let's Go!

The Thai Police are trying to solve a Rape and Murderer case here which I feel confident they have spent a lot of extra Manpower and Resources on to do. A lot more then I would spend for sure. They have been Mum (quiet) as they are ordered to do by that by their Superiors. This is not uncommon. Police don't talk much about the case in your country to. But the Defense sure does and throughout everything to twist everything, which is there job. I think?

Up-to-You

. .

.

"Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.k t"

Back to your old condescending, patronising style GB, and "Uncle Goldbuggy"? Seriously, that is worrying, coupled with the "Victoria" scenario.

everything you say was released to the media by who ? the investigating Thai police, you can believe them if you want personally I don't and is the basis and content of much of this thread from other that don't either, the fact that critical supposed DNA evidence matching B2 to the victims is no longer available to be tested is quite frankly shocking

[boomerangutang]

KEYSTONE cops.jpg

We should have a contest - for putting a caption on that photo. A suggestion:

>>> Burmese asking, "you want us to kill the farang over there?"

>>> Cops, "No, you must go over to the other side. Do as we tell you. Remember, we own you now."

Cops dressed the two boys up in bullet-proof vests and helmets, in anticipation of what the cops thought would be inevitable outpouring of anger from locals. Generally, it's common for locals to express their anger in Thai crime scene reenactments, by throwing things and shouting angry words. None of that happened at the KT reenactment. Why? because locals know the 2 are scapegoats. Locals showed up out of curiosity, not to express any anger at the scapegoats.

[rosst]

Lack of Evidence, Local Media Coverage Adds to Mystery of Koh Tao Murder

By Khaosod English

Police bring Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to Koh Samui court on 9 July 2015.

BANGKOK — The first week of the trial of two Burmese men accused of murdering British tourists on a Thai island last year has done little to shed light on a case that has been shrouded in mystery from the start.

Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both 22, have been charged with murder, rape, and theft over the deaths of British travelers David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23. The tourists’ badly beaten bodies were found on Koh Tao’s Sairee beach in the early morning of 15 September 2014.

The gruesome murder shocked the idyllic resort island and captured the attention of the foreign press, who detailed polices’ every stumble in a wayward investigation that ended with the arrest of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo several weeks later.

The suspects initially confessed after being interrogated by police without a professional interpreter or lawyer, but later declared their innocence and said they were tortured. They could face the death penalty if convicted.

Suspicions that the Burmese men were used as scapegoats to wrap up a case that was threatening to harm Thailand’s tourist industry were compounded last year by reports of locals refusing the speak to journalists, citing fears of “powerful families” on the 21 km2 island.

Despite hopes that the first round of witness examinations in a court on nearby Koh Samui last week would provide clarity on the murder, questions remain about police’s alleged “watertight” case, and rumors about a suspected cover-up continue to flourish.

'Used up evidence'

In response to the defense team’s repeated calls for access to forensic evidence that the prosecution says links Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the rape and murder, police revealed in court that swabs taken from semen found in Witheridge’s body are no longer available because they were “used up” in the original testing, which was conducted privately.

“For police to say they don’t have these materials completely undermines the credibility of their investigation,” said Andy Hall, a migrants' rights activist from the UK who is assisting the defendants.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626

-- Khaosod English 2015-07-13

So <deleted> is going on here?? We are all wondering about the Thai judiciary here, we are all thinking this is a fit up but any attempts to disprove it will be hampered by the " Used up forensic material " I am waiting for the defence to challenge the chain of evidence and the veracity of the statements by the police. Is there any chance we can have evidence the police involved were on the take anywhere?? Or is that too much to hope for.

Good luck to the poor SOB s.

[boomerangutang]

another thing that I can't understand is why clothing of the B2 was not examined for blood spatter, there is CCTV showing what they were wearing and yet nothing about forensic examination of clothes or even that the clothes were found in the residence, yes they could have changed shirts shorts shoes etc at some point in the late evening after work but I doubt it, just another unanswered observation

that's a good point, and it harkens to a plethora of other possible clues which the RTP:

>>> Didn't think to look for

>>> Thought about, but didn't look for

>>> Looked at, but didn't like what they saw, because it didn't implicate the Burmese

>>> Looked at, but trashed because it implicated people they must shield.

>>> Looked at, but misread/misdiagnosed

>>> Wanted to look at, but were refused (like; Mon saying cops could not see CCTV from his bar)

[changnaam]

Finally the British press have really got hold of this. I am sure another paper which has been blocked here would be keen to get in on the act. The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them.

The first guy had it all going in the right direction, then wham it all changes.

Who authorized that change, and could this person owe a favor to someone with serious political clout in that area?

How high does this really go?

Only throwing ideas around of course not making assumptions or accusations.

[fish fingers]

I'm making assumptions again but get the feeling from one poster that he knows critical evidence will be shown and hopefully prove the innocence of the two burmese.

The whole thing reminds me of the book To Kill A Mockingbird, or the Angola 3 case

Edited July 14, 2015 by fish fingers

[BritTim]

another thing that I can't understand is why clothing of the B2 was not examined for blood spatter, there is CCTV showing what they were wearing and yet nothing about forensic examination of clothes or even that the clothes were found in the residence, yes they could have changed shirts shorts shoes etc at some point in the late evening after work but I doubt it, just another unanswered observation

This is easy to answer. The RTP had no available blood from Hannah or David to plant on the clothing. Without this, such a forensic examination would be pointless. Unlike the claimed DNA evidence, it would be difficult to claim that the clothing was all used up.

[loonodingle]

I have not seen any discussion of the testimony of Dr. Chasit Yoohad as reported in http://bigstory.ap.org/urn:publicid:ap.org:eab0f9d26be242048e4dae7a83a9334e.

A second witness, Dr. Chasit Yoohad, gave testimony about his examination of the victims' bodies. He said he also performed a medical checkup of the two accused, and found them in good health. He said he asked through a translator if they had committed the crime, and they replied that they had.

This strikes me as strange. Why would the doctor be interrogating the Burmese? Of course, if the doctor was part of a frame up, the testimony is extremely convenient. It also does not state when this examination of the Burmese took place. I assume the translator was the pancake seller who has been accused of participating in the torture of the two accused. Even if the doctor's interrogation was carried out fairly, the two Burmese kids would probably not have dared risk renewed torture by claiming innocence. Further, how does anyone know that questions and answers from the pancake seller were correct translations?

Will the "translator" give evidence at the trial? Should this claim of the Burmese admission of guilt be regarded as hearsay if he does not?

Do the RTP not have recording equipment ?

Would they have wanted the "questioning" recorded? Also, recall that the original interrogation was not on RTP premises. It look place at a "safe house".

Actually the Polee claims that they left them with the Roti seller seller for a period of time and then he came out and they confessed.. tis was a deflection to avoid the charge of torture maybe?

[loonodingle]

I'm making assumptions again but get the feeling from one poster that he knows critical evidence will be shown and hopefully prove the innocence of the two burmese.

The whole thing reminds me of the book To Kill A Mockingbird, or the Angola 3 case

I have the same feeling...

[GOLDBUGGY]

Media Report of Eye Witness to the Murder

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-backpacker-thailand-murders-what-happened-to-david-miller-and-hannah-witheridge/story-fnizu68q-1227079223913

Hi GB:

I hit the link again and read it again. Not a word about an eye witness in the article you quoted.

Not to say there weren't eye witnesses to the crime (as other posters have pointed out), I'm just saying that you made a claim about an eye witness but your link doesn't back it up. That's all.

I am surmising the witness in the article is the B2s friend, who (if what they say is accurate) seems to know enough for himself to be on charges also.

The only other witness i read about is a guy on a bike saying he saw people from afar but couldnt make them out;

and a woman who says she heard people singing western songs on guitar but could also not give an accurate description

My claim did back it up. You just didn't find it or read it carefully.

Look for this just before the Main Heading "Why Them".

[Oziex1]

another thing that I can't understand is why clothing of the B2 was not examined for blood spatter, there is CCTV showing what they were wearing and yet nothing about forensic examination of clothes or even that the clothes were found in the residence, yes they could have changed shirts shorts shoes etc at some point in the late evening after work but I doubt it, just another unanswered observation

that's a good point, and it harkens to a plethora of other possible clues which the RTP:

>>> Didn't think to look for

>>> Thought about, but didn't look for

>>> Looked at, but didn't like what they saw, because it didn't implicate the Burmese

>>> Looked at, but trashed because it implicated people they must shield.

>>> Looked at, but misread/misdiagnosed

>>> Wanted to look at, but were refused (like; Mon saying cops could not see CCTV from his bar)

Do these unanswered questions lead to the conclusion that it just didn't matter to them as they are not subject to any real scrutiny and their word is not ever questioned.

And BTW It's played robbery with insolence, not rubbery. Mark would not be happy.

[thailandchilli]

I'm making assumptions again but get the feeling from one poster that he knows critical evidence will be shown and hopefully prove the innocence of the two burmese.

The whole thing reminds me of the book To Kill A Mockingbird, or the Angola 3 case

I have the same feeling...

Well its not Goldbuggy thats for sure!!

[BritTim]

Finally the British press have really got hold of this. I am sure another paper which has been blocked here would be keen to get in on the act. The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them.

The first guy had it all going in the right direction, then wham it all changes.

Who authorized that change, and could this person owe a favor to someone with serious political clout in that area?

How high does this really go?

Only throwing ideas around of course not making assumptions or accusations.

The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them

The promotion of Lt Gen Panya Mamen, and his replacement with Maj Gen Decha Budnampeth is a red herring. It has been an unwelcome distraction from proper investigation by those who (like me) are convinced the Burmese kids are innocent scapegoats. Panya was complicit in the decision to look for scapegoats. For instance, look at this report from around the time of the promotion: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murders-arrest-in-2-3-days-police-48958.php.

[smedly]

also Mon not releasing CCTV footage from the bar that would likely verify whether the son of the headman was indeed there that night or not, the only other person I can think of that could verify this would be Sean McKenna but then he doesn't want to spoil his future holiday options, the rest of the people present who were on holiday likely have no idea who the little boy is and paid no attention to him, the staff will remain silent for obvious reasons and probably have no idea that it would be significant relevance to the case

Edited July 14, 2015 by smedly

[falangjim]

Finally the British press have really got hold of this. I am sure another paper which has been blocked here would be keen to get in on the act. The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them.

The first guy had it all going in the right direction, then wham it all changes.

Who authorized that change, and could this person owe a favor to someone with serious political clout in that area?

How high does this really go?

Only throwing ideas around of course not making assumptions or accusations.

How high does this really go? you ask. My answer is, How high can it go? In there lies your answer.