Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[GOLDBUGGY]

Did anyone happen to see the second murder weapon in the trolley (I mean the evidence shopping trolley, not the trolley that Gobby is off)?

While chasing down the story on the taxi driver attempted bribe, I came across the story from Asia One where the top cop confirmed the second murder weapon on the 23rd September:

Deputy national police chief Pol Gen Somyot Pumpanmuang said yesterday that officers would have to widen the search to be beyond the island.

"We have now confirmed that the killing weapon is not only a hoe found stained with blood, but also a wooden club. This made us believe that there are at least two attackers," he said.

- See more at: http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/koh-tao-murders-police-confirm-2-murder-weapons#sthash.gpcBDinS.dpuf

No there are no other weapons, murder weapons or any other that caused Davids and Hannah's injuries thats the RTP official line at this moment. We know the defense is making strong representation to contest this fact especially in the case of David and the wounds he suffered prior to death.

It was reported that the Wooden Club was presented as evidence during the recent court dates, but lacked finger prints or DNA.

I have heard early on they suspected a wooden club was involved in the murders, but I never heard it was evidence.

Unless they can tie this to the murders somehow, and without finger prints or DNA evidence, I would think it would only be speculation and just a wooden club.

[Rykbanlor]

Goldbuggy, some reports stated that the B2 were sitting on the beach, whilst others reported that they were crouched there. A third source said they were hanging out at the beach.

I think we may be about to uncover some of the largest discrepancies in the case so far. I mean if they were hanging at the beach, well, you do the math buddy, look up hanging in the dictionary and then things will start to look even more sinister.

Also if you could expound on the possible motives behind the media carelessly using different synonyms to explain the same things we'd all be better informed.

[saminoz]

Goldbuggy, some reports stated that the B2 were sitting on the beach, whilst others reported that they were crouched there. A third source said they were hanging out at the beach.

I think we may be about to uncover some of the largest discrepancies in the case so far. I mean if they were hanging at the beach, well, you do the math buddy, look up hanging in the dictionary and then things will start to look even more sinister.

Also if you could expound on the possible motives behind the media carelessly using different synonyms to explain the same things we'd all be better informed.

............ to say nothing of more amused!!

K++ Rykbanlor

[thailandchilli]

No there are no other weapons, murder weapons or any other that caused Davids and Hannah's injuries thats the RTP official line at this moment. We know the defense is making strong representation to contest this fact especially in the case of David and the wounds he suffered prior to death.

It was reported that the Wooden Club was presented as evidence during the recent court dates, but lacked finger prints or DNA.

Please link me to that report, the hoe yes not the wooden club but I stand to be corrected as does the defense and the Telegraph news report

Link as requested

http://time.com/3970699/thailand-koh-tao-murders-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-latest/

Thanks missed that, there's confusion then as its also clear that no mention has been made regards retesting a wooden club, only the hoe, a shoe and some bags. The wooden club was mentioned numerously in early reports but this is the first report where its been mentioned recently.

I find it very unusual that it has not been mentioned in any other recent report or regards retesting of dna/fingerprints

Edited August 1, 2015 by thailandchilli

[Darkknight666]

To me, calling someone a Boy when he is 22 Years Old is the part I think is Bizarre.

So enlighten us, what is the official age when a boy becomes a man, or is it people just refer to these individuals as boys because of their youthful appearance.

The Base Line for me, and it should be for everyone else here, is the age in which the 2 Accused can't be tried in a Juvenile Court. In Canada, and I am pretty sure in Thailand to, as well as many other countries, that age limit is 18 years old.

So once they reach the age of 18 years and commit a crime, no matter how young they look, the Justice Systems Treat them as Adults, in and Adult Court, and as the 2 Accused are being treated now.

At age 17, they are tried in a Juvenile Court and are considered "Boys" within the Law and with penalties not being as severe.

You're right GB they're young men. Same as NS who is around the same age. I once referred to the B2 as "Burmese Boys" when talking about them as I feel some empathy for them. Maybe that's why you refer to NS as a "innocent boy".... Because that's where your empathy lies.

But we get it, you don't like the B2 being referred to as boys even if the person commenting is 70 years old... To an elderly man they're all boys. So can you move on to something else?

How about min saying bad things to the taxi driver on Facebook for reporting the attempted bribe?

I can PM you links to that FB post of you like.

[Rykbanlor]

If the Police were so adamant they had the right guys, would they not have wanted to test the Hoe for fingerprints, to further back up their "Rock Solid" DNA evidence.

I don't understand how the defenders can read all these articles and not have their faith in the RTP shaken even a little, and accusing the media of distorting the facts is not going to cut it.

[GOLDBUGGY]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

And there you go again. Despicable. You are pulling a story from early on (7th October) and about two weeks before the B2 had had decent access to legal representation and recanted their confessions on the grounds they had been tortured out of them.

Should we discount the murdered even took place and all the crime scene info since it all happened before the 7th of October? This is some real strange logic you have. The confessed to their legal team, their embassy and rights workers outside police presence while also not being scared to tell them at the same time police abused them. This is fact and it happened, no matter how much you want to ignore it.

Just posts earlier you were saying what I posted was dishonest. Now you have found a new excuse to bury your head in the sand as you will do with anything that doesn't fit what your imagination wants to believe.

"Lawyer Aung Myo' came up twice during the confession (your post) and also after the confessions were withdrawn (someone else's post). I wondered how it is that someone claimed it was 2 weeks before they had access to decent legal representation when it was the same Lawyer both times?

[robertthebruce]

I feel for there Parents, they must be going through a Terrible time..

so so sad...

i just hope the Truth comes out and there is some Justice to this case..

[Darkknight666]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

And there you go again. Despicable. You are pulling a story from early on (7th October) and about two weeks before the B2 had had decent access to legal representation and recanted their confessions on the grounds they had been tortured out of them.

Should we discount the murdered even took place and all the crime scene info since it all happened before the 7th of October? This is some real strange logic you have. The confessed to their legal team, their embassy and rights workers outside police presence while also not being scared to tell them at the same time police abused them. This is fact and it happened, no matter how much you want to ignore it.

Just posts earlier you were saying what I posted was dishonest. Now you have found a new excuse to bury your head in the sand as you will do with anything that doesn't fit what your imagination wants to believe.

"Lawyer Aung Myo' came up twice during the confession (your post) and also after the confessions were withdrawn (someone else's post). I wondered how it is that someone claimed it was 2 weeks before they had access to decent legal representation when it was the same Lawyer both times?

The court didn't accept their confession and it's not currently part of the trial, What is your point? The young men retracted and said their confession was given under abuse. Something we know happened to the Taxi driver. There is even a nice thaivisa link for anyone to read.

Why didn't the police record the confession? Why is the confession written in Thai? Why did the police use a roti seller as their official translator and not a trusted court translator?

Why would the young men also say the translator threatened them on behalf of police? I mean, why keep posting If you can't do so constructively? Help me understand some of these things Uncle GoldBuggy... I would appreciate it .

[thailandchilli]

I feel for there Parents, they must be going through a Terrible time..

so so sad...

i just hope the Truth comes out and there is some Justice to this case..

The last statement from the Millers : Over the coming weeks we hope to gain a better understanding as to how such a wonderful young man lost his life in such idyllic surroundings in such a horrible way.

I somehow doubt thats going to happen with RTP witnesses who seem to know nothing about the case or what their colleagues did or did not do.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Last one for tonight. Taxi drivers don't get offered 700k baht for false testimony against migrant workers! They'd turn them over for free. Hell. They may even get a reward around here.

There goes that misleading information again!

The Taxi Driver, who people here call was offered a Bribe, and was Interrogation by the Police, had nothing to do with the 2 Accused. This was in relation to a Foot Ball Team who became suspects.

The Taxi Driver was not offered a Bribe. He was offered the Reward Money which at that time was 700K, if he could give them evidence that this guys did it. Since he could not, this was dropped.

He was offered a bribe, according to pretty much all the journals reporting at that time. here are excerpts from two of them

"Thai police investigating the murder of two British backpackers tried to bribe a taxi driver to give false evidence against a football team then beat him up when he refused, it was claimed today.

Pornprasit Sukdam claims he was offered 700,000 baht (£13,300) if he agreed to be a fake witness to events leading up to the deaths of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge in Koh Tao."

"Pornprasit said the police detained him at 1.30 pm on Monday. During the interrogation, the police investigators asked him to agree to pretend to have knowledge of the incident, Pornprasit said. The police allegedly offered him a 700,000 baht (about 21,600 USD) reward and guaranteed him witness status. However, since he was not involved with the crime and did not have any knowledge related to it, Pornprasit declined the police offer. That made the police angry, he said. The police allegedly beat him up before releasing him on Monday at 6.30 pm."

Apparently the taxi driver is a member of the football club, Sun Service Team, and would not stitch up his club mates.

I'll do your reading for you Globby, someone needs to.

​*edited to harmonise font sizes

Good! Get him on the Witness Stand for the Defense. His bravery surely indicates he is not afraid to tell it as he saw it. But then talking to a newspaper Reporter, if that is true, and talking on the Witness Stand, is 2 different things. This is because being a Liar in Court can get you a Perjury Charge but being a Liar to the Newspapers can get you Publicity.

Personally, I have been screwed more times by the Taxi Drivers of this World than by anyone else. I am not indicating he is a liar even if this was never proved. I am not even indicating he ever talked to the Media, which could all be made up by them. But if it is true then a sworn testimony in court carries more weight with me then this Media Report.

Edited August 1, 2015 by GOLDBUGGY

[Rykbanlor]

Last one for tonight. Taxi drivers don't get offered 700k baht for false testimony against migrant workers! They'd turn them over for free. Hell. They may even get a reward around here.

There goes that misleading information again!

The Taxi Driver, who people here call was offered a Bribe, and was Interrogation by the Police, had nothing to do with the 2 Accused. This was in relation to a Foot Ball Team who became suspects.

The Taxi Driver was not offered a Bribe. He was offered the Reward Money which at that time was 700K, if he could give them evidence that this guys did it. Since he could not, this was dropped.

He was offered a bribe, according to pretty much all the journals reporting at that time. here are excerpts from two of them

"Thai police investigating the murder of two British backpackers tried to bribe a taxi driver to give false evidence against a football team then beat him up when he refused, it was claimed today.

Pornprasit Sukdam claims he was offered 700,000 baht (£13,300) if he agreed to be a fake witness to events leading up to the deaths of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge in Koh Tao."

"Pornprasit said the police detained him at 1.30 pm on Monday. During the interrogation, the police investigators asked him to agree to pretend to have knowledge of the incident, Pornprasit said. The police allegedly offered him a 700,000 baht (about 21,600 USD) reward and guaranteed him witness status. However, since he was not involved with the crime and did not have any knowledge related to it, Pornprasit declined the police offer. That made the police angry, he said. The police allegedly beat him up before releasing him on Monday at 6.30 pm."

Apparently the taxi driver is a member of the football club, Sun Service Team, and would not stitch up his club mates.

I'll do your reading for you Globby, someone needs to.

​*edited to harmonise font sizes

Good! Get him on the Witness Stand for the Defense. His bravery surely indicates he is not afraid to tell it as he saw it. But then talking to a newspaper Reporter, if that is true, and talking on the Witness Stand, is 2 different things. This is because being a Liar in Court can get you a Perjury Charge but being a Liar to the Newspapers can get you Publicity.

Personally, I have been screwed more times by the Taxi Drivers of this World than by anyone else. I am not indicating he is a liar even if this was never proved. I am not even indicating he ever talked to the Media, which could all be made up by them. But if it is true then a sworn testimony in court carries more weight with me then this Media Report.

Add him to your list of people, along with Nomsod then, who are not on trial and therefore should not be challenged by anyone.

[boomerangutang]

Here is my take on the supposed admittance of guilt after the 'safe house'. It harkens to what happened at the 'safe house' It's likely they were tortured, perhaps both psychologically and physically. It's quite common for authorities, all over the world, to tell suspects something like, "Admit the crime, and you won't get the death penalty. Hang tough, and insist on your innocence, and we will find you guilty and you will die." So, having no inkling of the law or their rights, they signed a piece of paper they couldn't read, with no advocates within shouting distance. Next, they're sitting again with older stern-faced men. They're still spooked by the earlier scenario, and they still don't want to be executed, so they stick with their forced confession. At some point soon after, they're apprised of their basic legal rights for the first time, and quickly tell the truth: they were tortured and forced to confess to a crime they didn't do. they've been unwavering in declaring their innocence ever since. Indeed, they and their lawyers are clammoring for re-testing of crucial evidence. that's not the actions of guilty people.

Here's how guilty people act:

>>> they pay money to get people to convince others of their innocence, no matter how outlandish

>>> They avoid DNA tests

>>> They keep hiding from police

>>> They threaten anyone who may have evidence or witness accounts (I just heard today that the Burmese woman who first found the bodies of H and D has just been killed)

>>> They threaten defamation of character lawsuits

>>> They offer 1 million baht rewards for anyone who can prove their family member is guilty. What are the chances that reward will ever be paid? Zero.

>>> They disparage the reputation of others who they try to frame as scapegoats (Headman telling everyone Sean is a paedophile)

>>> They destroy evidence

>>> They stage a DNA comparison press event which doesn't do what it's purported to do.

>>> They obfuscate things, and lie like rugs.

>>> They pay people to lie about things.

How many of those things are being done by the B2? None. How many are being done by the Headman's people? All.

[Rykbanlor]

So now the media are just making all this up??

SO Goldbuggy, you should advise the RTP to hit some of these news outlets with defamation suits. If one of these papers just made this up then The Police would be well within their rights to do so. I wonder why they haven't?

[Darkknight666]

Last one for tonight. Taxi drivers don't get offered 700k baht for false testimony against migrant workers! They'd turn them over for free. Hell. They may even get a reward around here.

There goes that misleading information again!

The Taxi Driver, who people here call was offered a Bribe, and was Interrogation by the Police, had nothing to do with the 2 Accused. This was in relation to a Foot Ball Team who became suspects.

The Taxi Driver was not offered a Bribe. He was offered the Reward Money which at that time was 700K, if he could give them evidence that this guys did it. Since he could not, this was dropped.

He was offered a bribe, according to pretty much all the journals reporting at that time. here are excerpts from two of them

"Thai police investigating the murder of two British backpackers tried to bribe a taxi driver to give false evidence against a football team then beat him up when he refused, it was claimed today.

Pornprasit Sukdam claims he was offered 700,000 baht (£13,300) if he agreed to be a fake witness to events leading up to the deaths of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge in Koh Tao."

"Pornprasit said the police detained him at 1.30 pm on Monday. During the interrogation, the police investigators asked him to agree to pretend to have knowledge of the incident, Pornprasit said. The police allegedly offered him a 700,000 baht (about 21,600 USD) reward and guaranteed him witness status. However, since he was not involved with the crime and did not have any knowledge related to it, Pornprasit declined the police offer. That made the police angry, he said. The police allegedly beat him up before releasing him on Monday at 6.30 pm."

Apparently the taxi driver is a member of the football club, Sun Service Team, and would not stitch up his club mates.

I'll do your reading for you Globby, someone needs to.

​*edited to harmonise font sizes

Good! Get him on the Witness Stand for the Defense. His bravery surely indicates he is not afraid to tell it as he saw it. But then talking to a newspaper Reporter, if that is true, and talking on the Witness Stand, is 2 different things. This is because being a Liar in Court can get you a Perjury Charge but being a Liar to the Newspapers can get you Publicity.

Personally, I have been screwed more times by the Taxi Drivers of this World than by anyone else. I am not indicating he is a liar even if this was never proved. I am not even indicating he ever talked to the Media, which could all be made up by them. But if it is true then a sworn testimony in court carries more weight with me then this Media Report.

Add him to your list of people, along with Nomsod then, who are not on trial and therefore should not be challenged by anyone.

After reading that all I could do is chuckle. What else is there to say.

[Darkknight666]

Here is my take on the supposed admittance of guilt after the 'safe house'. It harkens to what happened at the 'safe house' It's likely they were tortured, perhaps both psychologically and physically. It's quite common for authorities, all over the world, to tell suspects something like, "Admit the crime, and you won't get the death penalty. Hang tough, and insist on your innocence, and we will find you guilty and you will die." So, having no inkling of the law or their rights, they signed a piece of paper they couldn't read, with no advocates within shouting distance. Next, they're sitting again with older stern-faced men. They're still spooked by the earlier scenario, and they still don't want to be executed, so they stick with their forced confession. At some point soon after, they're apprised of their basic legal rights for the first time, and quickly tell the truth: they were tortured and forced to confess to a crime they didn't do. they've been unwavering in declaring their innocence ever since. Indeed, they and their lawyers are clammoring for re-testing of crucial evidence. that's not the actions of guilty people.

Here's how guilty people act:

>>> they pay money to get people to convince others of their innocence, no matter how outlandish

>>> They avoid DNA tests

>>> They keep hiding from police

>>> They threaten anyone who may have evidence or witness accounts (I just heard today that the Burmese woman who first found the bodies of H and D has just been killed)

>>> They threaten defamation of character lawsuits

>>> They offer 1 million baht rewards for anyone who can prove their family member is guilty. What are the chances that reward will ever be paid? Zero.

>>> They disparage the reputation of others who they try to frame as scapegoats (Headman telling everyone Sean is a paedophile)

>>> They destroy evidence

>>> They stage a DNA comparison press event which doesn't do what it's purported to do.

>>> They obfuscate things, and lie like rugs.

>>> They pay people to lie about things.

How many of those things are being done by the B2? None. How many are being done by the Headman's people? All.

Nailed it.

What do police always use when determining suspects? Motive, Intent, Ability and odd behavior after the crime, Usually when trying to cover ones tracks.

B2 lack all of those things.

I personally think if the B2 were guilty they would have attempted some kind of escape, As we all know the Island was hardly "locked down". Great post Boomer.

[AleG]

It was reported that the Wooden Club was presented as evidence during the recent court dates, but lacked finger prints or DNA.

and that is absolutely no surprise at all - just like the hoe was wiped clean by the garbage collector as instructed by a certain individual, this beach worker is now suspected to have been murdered, perhaps her standards didn't fit with the agenda - go figure

Goldbugry alG and TJT will be along shortly to remind the world that this investigation has been of the highest standard and will stand up to all scrutiny

No, I'll be along to tell you, once again, that you are repeating "facts" which are not actually true.

"CORRECTION: The beach cleaner who removed the garden hoe from the crime scene did not tell the court he also washed the tool, as was originally reported."

[GOLDBUGGY]

Nobody to my knowledge has said they do not have the "Chain of Custody" concerning the DNA Tests. All that was said is that the Defense doesn't have that yet. Just like they never had the Hoe, which has been reported that they do now. But time will tell.

They said they lost things (the hair, etc), and they said that DNA 'was all used up'. Add to that, RTP have been dragging their feet in every ridiculous way - trying to avoid any re-examination of DNA. Oh, and RTP's lead investigator said he never saw results of Nomsod's test, didn't know if it was really done, didn't know if it was compared to DNA from victim, and didn't know if the sample still existed or where it was. And even if they did know anything about NS's DNA, they certainly wouldn't share that data with the Brits. If that's not screwing-up 'chain of custody' ....then what is? Everything RTP are doing screams cover-up and screw-up and shielding the H's people.

And then there's a 600 lb gorilla sitting in the middle of the room, which RTP are determined not to acknowledge: I'm referring to DNA comparisons (with victim) of those who should be prime suspects. Besides Mon and Nomsod, there are their tough-guy buddies who like to pose with weaponized rings and guns. There's only one reason none of those people have been looked at by RTP: COVER-UP!!!

You are only saying that this NS DNA was never checked because you did not see it. As this was not handed over to the Public to inspect and scrutinize, and which was pointed out several time that this is common practice of the Police Force not to do so.

Wasn't it you who claimed over and over again that the Police could easily check NS Telephone Records, and since they did not you claimed there was a big cover-up? Then Bingo! You found out they did check and your eyes were like a Deer caught in the Head Lights.

As to Lead Police Inspector on the Island not knowing if NS DNA Sample was completed, why should he know that. NS lives in Bangkok and not on the Island. Do you think the Lead Investigators in Thailand all sit down every morning and read up on all the crimes that take place in different areas of Thailand and have full knowledge of every crime?

He turned this over to the Bangkok Police Division and as he was supposed to. Any information he gets after that is to settle his own curiosity. Unless of course it matched the samples from Hannah. Also asking the wrong guy questions about something he shouldn't know also makes no sense at all. Unless of course it is on purpose and trying to shoot holes in his testimony.

The bodies where shipped to Bangkok to Forensics to exam, take samples and, do the autopsy. He doesn't preform the autopsy or testing in the Lab their. The Forensic Expert was scheduled to take the Stand for the Prosecution. They could have asked then, or anything else related to the storage and handling of this DNA. .

NS DNA is not screwing up any chain of custody as he is not accused of anything, charged with anything, nor will he ever be. Get over it already. .

[Lozza]

Well it appears a Burmese witness on Koh Tao has been found dead with a nasty head wound.

What a surprise.

This is going to rock the prosecution, the P.M is going to be shattered.

I have just found a photo I have been looking to find for weeks it had disappeared. I just found one on CSIMM. The photo in question is where David was found-the photo's show he was NOT found face down or up in the shallow water as the story goes, he was taken out and propped on rocks and would have had to have been carried back to shore.. if so by whom, this has never been mentioned and as I have no idea how to attach photo's...sorry I suggest a look and be the judge on this anomaly.

[saminoz]

Nobody to my knowledge has said they do not have the "Chain of Custody" concerning the DNA Tests. All that was said is that the Defense doesn't have that yet. Just like they never had the Hoe, which has been reported that they do now. But time will tell.

They said they lost things (the hair, etc), and they said that DNA 'was all used up'. Add to that, RTP have been dragging their feet in every ridiculous way - trying to avoid any re-examination of DNA. Oh, and RTP's lead investigator said he never saw results of Nomsod's test, didn't know if it was really done, didn't know if it was compared to DNA from victim, and didn't know if the sample still existed or where it was. And even if they did know anything about NS's DNA, they certainly wouldn't share that data with the Brits. If that's not screwing-up 'chain of custody' ....then what is? Everything RTP are doing screams cover-up and screw-up and shielding the H's people.

And then there's a 600 lb gorilla sitting in the middle of the room, which RTP are determined not to acknowledge: I'm referring to DNA comparisons (with victim) of those who should be prime suspects. Besides Mon and Nomsod, there are their tough-guy buddies who like to pose with weaponized rings and guns. There's only one reason none of those people have been looked at by RTP: COVER-UP!!!

You are only saying that this NS DNA was never checked because you did not see it. As this was not handed over to the Public to inspect and scrutinize, and which was pointed out several time that this is common practice of the Police Force not to do so.

Wasn't it you who claimed over and over again that the Police could easily check NS Telephone Records, and since they did not you claimed there was a big cover-up? Then Bingo! You found out they did check and your eyes were like a Deer caught in the Head Lights.

As to Lead Police Inspector on the Island not knowing if NS DNA Sample was completed, why should he know that. NS lives in Bangkok and not on the Island. Do you think the Lead Investigators in Thailand all sit down every morning and read up on all the crimes that take place in different areas of Thailand and have full knowledge of every crime?

He turned this over to the Bangkok Police Division and as he was supposed to. Any information he gets after that is to settle his own curiosity. Unless of course it matched the samples from Hannah. Also asking the wrong guy questions about something he shouldn't know also makes no sense at all. Unless of course it is on purpose and trying to shoot holes in his testimony.

The bodies where shipped to Bangkok to Forensics to exam, take samples and, do the autopsy. He doesn't preform the autopsy or testing in the Lab their. The Forensic Expert was scheduled to take the Stand for the Prosecution. They could have asked then, or anything else related to the storage and handling of this DNA. .

NS DNA is not screwing up any chain of custody as he is not accused of anything, charged with anything, nor will he ever be. Get over it already. .

I would expect, as he was the Lead Investigator for this case and the one that was called to answer questions for the prosecution that, yes, he should know pretty much everything about the case!

He either performed particularly badly, not knowing anything about the case under his command or was deliberately being vague and dodging questions that the RTP didn't really want to (or couldn't) give answers to.

This was in one of the prosecution's sessions and it seems like they really lost out to more professional questions from the defense?

I am sure you can agree that as Lead Investigator, he hardly covered himself nor the RTP in glory, can't you?

Looks like a case of someone having paid for his promotions or being set up as the fall guy.

[Si Thea01]

Linky States:-

Quote.>Again rubbish. In worked for prosecution and instructed counsel in more than 20 murder trials in oz. never ever has that been an issue.

Opposite in fact because police did not follow a lead there was an argument in the bar would show them incompetent. In fact there were times mid trial when police were found to have neglected to follow up and defense will call for that evidence in the court. If police say they didnt investigate it is not good for prosecution.

You really are just making things up<End quote

I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions, not to buy into your debate with JTJ but to clarify a couple of things. You worked for the prosecution, was that in the local court, the district court, supreme court or high court's jurisdiction? What state or territory? If you were a little more specific, it would allow those of us who have been involved with enforcement and prosecution to understand more clearly the debate that is ongoing and where is heading between you two. Were you actually a prosecutor and a qualified solicitor? Who employed you, the DPP, the CDPP, or the Police prosecution branch which, if the latter, you would also be a sworn Police Officer? And you instructed counsel in more than 20 trials, so you were or still are an instructing solicitor, maybe a Barrister? I hope you don't mind my asking, just curious?

Its ok, a little background.

Qld, never as prosecuting counsel, I worked for Director of Public Prosecutions as Instructing solicitor. I know next to nothing about civil law. Never worked for CDPP. Never a police officer.

I never instructed in the magistrates court, where the committal hearings take place before going to trial in the higher courts. I instructed in District courts for usual assaults amd rapes for a couple of years then Supreme court for drugs and murders etc. 1 year in Court of Appeal. Appeal court is just legal argument, I only saw a witness required once, so if you are not legally minded it is not exciting. Only did High Court once, for the one week sittings. High court is boring, all constitutional arguments, easy to fall asleep

There is a lot of difference between states on how things are run. If I was to go to say Sydney for a criminal trial I would know enough to get by but would not be comfortable.

I moved on from that work in 1999. So quite some years ago.

Thank you for the courtesy in responding, and taking time to explain. I hope you don't think I was a S A, only curious. Now I can see where it's coming from and going to. Again, thanks for the courtesy and the civility you showed in answering.

[Chetzee]

Linky States:-

Quote.>Again rubbish. In worked for prosecution and instructed counsel in more than 20 murder trials in oz. never ever has that been an issue.

Opposite in fact because police did not follow a lead there was an argument in the bar would show them incompetent. In fact there were times mid trial when police were found to have neglected to follow up and defense will call for that evidence in the court. If police say they didnt investigate it is not good for prosecution.

You really are just making things up<End quote

I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions, not to buy into your debate with JTJ but to clarify a couple of things. You worked for the prosecution, was that in the local court, the district court, supreme court or high court's jurisdiction? What state or territory? If you were a little more specific, it would allow those of us who have been involved with enforcement and prosecution to understand more clearly the debate that is ongoing and where is heading between you two. Were you actually a prosecutor and a qualified solicitor? Who employed you, the DPP, the CDPP, or the Police prosecution branch which, if the latter, you would also be a sworn Police Officer? And you instructed counsel in more than 20 trials, so you were or still are an instructing solicitor, maybe a Barrister? I hope you don't mind my asking, just curious?

Its ok, a little background.

Qld, never as prosecuting counsel, I worked for Director of Public Prosecutions as Instructing solicitor. I know next to nothing about civil law. Never worked for CDPP. Never a police officer.

I never instructed in the magistrates court, where the committal hearings take place before going to trial in the higher courts. I instructed in District courts for usual assaults amd rapes for a couple of years then Supreme court for drugs and murders etc. 1 year in Court of Appeal. Appeal court is just legal argument, I only saw a witness required once, so if you are not legally minded it is not exciting. Only did High Court once, for the one week sittings. High court is boring, all constitutional arguments, easy to fall asleep

There is a lot of difference between states on how things are run. If I was to go to say Sydney for a criminal trial I would know enough to get by but would not be comfortable.

I moved on from that work in 1999. So quite some years ago.

Thank you for the courtesy in responding, and taking time to explain. I hope you don't think I was a S A, only curious. Now I can see where it's coming from and going to. Again, thanks for the courtesy and the civility you showed in answering.

pmsl

[Lancashireman]

Here is my take on the supposed admittance of guilt after the 'safe house'. It harkens to what happened at the 'safe house' It's likely they were tortured, perhaps both psychologically and physically. It's quite common for authorities, all over the world, to tell suspects something like, "Admit the crime, and you won't get the death penalty. Hang tough, and insist on your innocence, and we will find you guilty and you will die." So, having no inkling of the law or their rights, they signed a piece of paper they couldn't read, with no advocates within shouting distance. Next, they're sitting again with older stern-faced men. They're still spooked by the earlier scenario, and they still don't want to be executed, so they stick with their forced confession. At some point soon after, they're apprised of their basic legal rights for the first time, and quickly tell the truth: they were tortured and forced to confess to a crime they didn't do. they've been unwavering in declaring their innocence ever since. Indeed, they and their lawyers are clammoring for re-testing of crucial evidence. that's not the actions of guilty people.

Here's how guilty people act:

>>> they pay money to get people to convince others of their innocence, no matter how outlandish

>>> They avoid DNA tests

>>> They keep hiding from police

>>> They threaten anyone who may have evidence or witness accounts (I just heard today that the Burmese woman who first found the bodies of H and D has just been killed)

>>> They threaten defamation of character lawsuits

>>> They offer 1 million baht rewards for anyone who can prove their family member is guilty. What are the chances that reward will ever be paid? Zero.

>>> They disparage the reputation of others who they try to frame as scapegoats (Headman telling everyone Sean is a paedophile)

>>> They destroy evidence

>>> They stage a DNA comparison press event which doesn't do what it's purported to do.

>>> They obfuscate things, and lie like rugs.

>>> They pay people to lie about things.

How many of those things are being done by the B2? None. How many are being done by the Headman's people? All.

Nailed it.

What do police always use when determining suspects? Motive, Intent, Ability and odd behavior after the crime, Usually when trying to cover ones tracks.

B2 lack all of those things.

I personally think if the B2 were guilty they would have attempted some kind of escape, As we all know the Island was hardly "locked down". Great post Boomer.

Yes agree too.

[loonodingle]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

That's just your version. Just wait and see what is revealed.

Finally a common sense observation. I will do like you.

On the face it really does make sense until you review the posts of the person you are responding and the outlandish unfounded speculative accusation he has made about who the killers are while ignoring things like the above that already happened and has been reported by numerous sources, includes quotes of the people involved and is not contradicted anywhere in the press or by the people involved and ONLY THEN replies with some bizarre notion he is going to wait and see about it (about a thing that has already happened). Not to mention he didn't wait and actually went on to try to discredit the "facts" I posted because the picture I used appears on numerous sites on the internet over a period of time.

You are off your face on something I think... find me one post where I have named anyone as the killer.. just one

post..

secondly you used a picture that was branded with a particular newspapers logo. That was used for a particular story and have attributed a story line from a different organisation to the piece.

It doesn't matter what you have to say anyway.

Wait till trial commences some ones going to p155 on your party my friend...PMSL. .. lol...

[thailandchilli]

Sorry, can someone clarify if the beach cleaner was male or female. Seems one post referenced 'her' and the other 'he' . I understand it was a male, and he was partially blind, again that is what has been reported....

In court it was a male, however its also been reported the first actual person to find the bodies was a female who apparently fled back to Burma

[NCFC]

So now the media are just making all this up??

SO Goldbuggy, you should advise the RTP to hit some of these news outlets with defamation suits. If one of these papers just made this up then The Police would be well within their rights to do so. I wonder why they haven't?

Indeed, you may even ask why the Junta leader isn't criticizing the media for causing so much disharmony within the country and within the international community. He has been quite vocal in his criticism of the media for upsetting the status quo and for asking questions that he prefers remain unanswered.

Could it be that every time Prayuth has opened his mouth and commented on this case, he has turned turned the spotlight onto the ineptitude, corruption and inherent racism that has contaminated large sections of his country, not least, the Royal Thai Police?

Could it be that Thailand wishes this "little problem" just fade away rather than face up to the possibility that the handling of this case just highlights all that is wrong with the country?

[Darkknight666]

Nobody to my knowledge has said they do not have the "Chain of Custody" concerning the DNA Tests. All that was said is that the Defense doesn't have that yet. Just like they never had the Hoe, which has been reported that they do now. But time will tell.

They said they lost things (the hair, etc), and they said that DNA 'was all used up'. Add to that, RTP have been dragging their feet in every ridiculous way - trying to avoid any re-examination of DNA. Oh, and RTP's lead investigator said he never saw results of Nomsod's test, didn't know if it was really done, didn't know if it was compared to DNA from victim, and didn't know if the sample still existed or where it was. And even if they did know anything about NS's DNA, they certainly wouldn't share that data with the Brits. If that's not screwing-up 'chain of custody' ....then what is? Everything RTP are doing screams cover-up and screw-up and shielding the H's people.

And then there's a 600 lb gorilla sitting in the middle of the room, which RTP are determined not to acknowledge: I'm referring to DNA comparisons (with victim) of those who should be prime suspects. Besides Mon and Nomsod, there are their tough-guy buddies who like to pose with weaponized rings and guns. There's only one reason none of those people have been looked at by RTP: COVER-UP!!!

You are only saying that this NS DNA was never checked because you did not see it. As this was not handed over to the Public to inspect and scrutinize, and which was pointed out several time that this is common practice of the Police Force not to do so.

Wasn't it you who claimed over and over again that the Police could easily check NS Telephone Records, and since they did not you claimed there was a big cover-up? Then Bingo! You found out they did check and your eyes were like a Deer caught in the Head Lights.

As to Lead Police Inspector on the Island not knowing if NS DNA Sample was completed, why should he know that. NS lives in Bangkok and not on the Island. Do you think the Lead Investigators in Thailand all sit down every morning and read up on all the crimes that take place in different areas of Thailand and have full knowledge of every crime?

He turned this over to the Bangkok Police Division and as he was supposed to. Any information he gets after that is to settle his own curiosity. Unless of course it matched the samples from Hannah. Also asking the wrong guy questions about something he shouldn't know also makes no sense at all. Unless of course it is on purpose and trying to shoot holes in his testimony.

The bodies where shipped to Bangkok to Forensics to exam, take samples and, do the autopsy. He doesn't preform the autopsy or testing in the Lab their. The Forensic Expert was scheduled to take the Stand for the Prosecution. They could have asked then, or anything else related to the storage and handling of this DNA. .

NS DNA is not screwing up any chain of custody as he is not accused of anything, charged with anything, nor will he ever be. Get over it already. .

Why do you so desperately want NS excluded from the case when the evidence he supplied hasn't been seen by anyone willing to testify? It's a defense teams job to prove their client couldn't have committed a murder, That entails trying to find out who did as to exonerate your clients. NOBODY should be dismissed until the case is solved.

"NS DNA is not screwing up any chain of custody as he is not accused of anything, charged with anything, nor will he ever be. Get over it already."

How can you be soooo sure Uncle GoldBuggy, Huh? Find me a report where his evidence was actually substantiated beyond RTP statements? Alibi? Don't buy it.

Not enough video evidence for a guy who claims to have been in a city with hundreds of thousands of cameras, where you get a receipt for buying a 10 baht ice cream cone, nope. Phone record? Who saw that? Got a link?

The photo of him at his dorm? Thai media said its suspect.

There's more than enough circumstantial evidence to keep digging, yet you want the digging to halt!

Interesting. Why do you never even comment about his friends? Enjoy, UncleGB.

[Darkknight666]

Sorry, can someone clarify if the beach cleaner was male or female. Seems one post referenced 'her' and the other 'he' . I understand it was a male, and he was partially blind, again that is what has been reported....

In court it was a male, however its also been reported the first actual person to find the bodies was a female who apparently fled back to Burma

Thanks for the clarification, has she been murdered on Koh Tao, or in Myanmar, seems to be no info on the Google box at the moment...

Zero info I've looked all over. There is a lady with the same name from Myanmar on FB and she is in Myanmar safely as far as I can tell. Tried searching any Myanmar English sites as well. Nada.

[thailandchilli]

Sorry, can someone clarify if the beach cleaner was male or female. Seems one post referenced 'her' and the other 'he' . I understand it was a male, and he was partially blind, again that is what has been reported....

In court it was a male, however its also been reported the first actual person to find the bodies was a female who apparently fled back to Burma

Thanks for the clarification, has she been murdered on Koh Tao, or in Myanmar, seems to be no info on the Google box at the moment...

Its just rumours at the moment on facebook, if it did happen then they are saying it happened in Koh Tao. Not sure about this rumour but lets see if true or not, currently CSILA are not saying anything until they themselves get confirmation about it.

[thailandchilli]

It was reported that the Wooden Club was presented as evidence during the recent court dates, but lacked finger prints or DNA.

and that is absolutely no surprise at all - just like the hoe was wiped clean by the garbage collector as instructed by a certain individual, this beach worker is now suspected to have been murdered, perhaps her standards didn't fit with the agenda - go figure

Goldbugry alG and TJT will be along shortly to remind the world that this investigation has been of the highest standard and will stand up to all scrutiny

No, I'll be along to tell you, once again, that you are repeating "facts" which are not actually true.

"CORRECTION: The beach cleaner who removed the garden hoe from the crime scene did not tell the court he also washed the tool, as was originally reported."

RTP would like it to be true as it gives a ready excuse as to the lack of blood left on the hoe, despite the fact it was saturated in blood in early photos

Police tried to manipulate Koh Tao witness, court told

Police on Koh Tao tried to persuade a witness at the Witheridge-Miller crime scene into saying that he had wiped blood off an alleged murder weapon, according to Aung Myo Thant, a lawyer for the defence team.

Speaking to DVB on Thursday evening, the lawyer said the court heard testimony from a Burmese migrant named U Oh, who was a garbage collector on Sairee Beach during the period in September 2014 when British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were murdered. http://www.thailandnews.co/2015/07/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/

Edited August 1, 2015 by thailandchilli