Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[JLCrab]

Has anyone considered the remote possibility that the burmese pair actually did commit this gruesome crime ? The very first thing that any s***bag defence lawyer is going to do is instruct his clients to retract their confession and say it was obtained through beating. Just a thought. I have fired numerous staff in this country for theft, and never has one admitted it, and to look at them you would think them so sweet and pure they would be incapable of any wrongdoing. Hopefully real evidence will shed some light on the situation.

Well, I did. Darn near got crucified here for even suggesting that.

People in these parts don't cater to strangers having a different opinion. So forget about free speech here. They much prefer you join by coming up with some conspiracy theory. The Bigger the Better.

There are basic differences in outlook, between the posters herein seeking truth and justice (T&J) and those seeking to shield everyone connected to the Headman; (Headman's people shielders or HPS). I'll put it in a nutshell . . . . .

>>> T&J want all evidence re-checked for veracity, and want all revealed. HPS are doing all they can to suppress evidence.

>>> T&J have made many viable suggestions for investigating items/people which could provide evidence for finding who the real killers are. HPS has put up roadblocks to every suggestion.

>>> T&J are willing to concede the two Burmese are guilty, if the evidence and eyewitnesses prove it. HPS are incapable of conceding any of the H's people could be guilty of any wrongdoing, regardless of evidence which might prove it.

>>> T&J are open to discussing all facets of the crime and investigation, and are eager for DNA of all persons-of-interest to be examined and compared to DNA found in/on victim. HPS want no such things. Indeed, HPS want no discussion or scrutiny of anyone connected to the Headman, and they sometimes hint at defamation of character lawsuits (or bodily harm) to back their fixation with shielding anyone connected to the Headman.

I'm in the EITB2DDISOTTHMPCDI Group

(Even if the B2 didn't do it someone other than the HM's People coulda done it.)

[Dogmatix]

The CIFS chief Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan said a retesting of DNA was not common in foreign countries. So far, she said the retesting was quite rare in Thailand and hence she was not sure about the evidence storage process. (Page 27 News)

Interesting as I would have thought that stuff like DNA is kept forever.

Here is a LINK which goes into more detail about the preservation of evidence. It is USA based as I can't find anything about this in Thailand. Or in English anyway. So take this at face value.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/free-innocent/improve-the-law/fact-sheets/preservation-of-evidence

This must be a typo, ie Khunying Pornthip must have said that retesting of DNA evidence is NOT uncommon in foreign countries but rare in Thailand.

[boomerangutang]

JDinasia's throws out 'conspiracy theorist' when he's/she's flummoxed, and can't think of anything else to say.

If looking for a conspiracy, look no further than a couple of RTP top brass and perhaps Mon and a few others in there with them. They thought they could stitch up a plausible scenario - which would nail the scapegoats. More importantly, divert attention away from the origianal two prime suspects. But now their mean-spirited ruse is unraveling - in front of the world.

Assertion grossly ridiculous as most of your posts. You do not have any specific evidence to judge and yet you judge, and always one-sided. This is exactly what is called the theory of conspiracy.

IMHO I do not think possible that the police have fabricated false evidence with the sole purpose to spare notable. I think so but I'm not 100% sure. So I expect that this trial confirms this feeling based on logic. you should do the same...

Joe, your sentence above, enlarged, ....does that mean you think the police have fabricated evidence? ....with the sole purpose to 'spare notable' ('notable' = Nomsod?) ? Or did you omit the word 'don't' in front of 'think'?

BTW, this is a blog where people offer ideas and opinions.

As for 'conspiracy'; I am one person. A conspiracy is two or more people. I live alone, have my own brain and think my own thoughts. I look at all the data and come to my own conclusions. Some people agree with me, fine, just as I agree with some people. If I say 'trees have green leaves' - is that a 'conspiracy' because others believe the same?

If there's a conspiracy in this whole mess of a case, look no further than the people who have the most interest in continuing to shield the Headman's brother and son. Plus, the people who may be in line for getting big money from a very rich person. Perhaps you're now going to try to convince me that 'bribes don't happen in Thailand, particularly where members of rich powerful families might get thrown in jail or executed.' It's an open discussion. You can say whatever you want to say.

[thailandchilli]

Crime scene blunder stopped murder weapon DNA test

Even the Times has now picked this up: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/article4493211.ece

[thailandchilli]

And so the farce continues

Crime scene photos not in police file, how useful for the RTP, so now they can say anything they want about the scene including the statement that the clothes were in a nice neat pile??? Perhaps they better link up a connection to this thread or even try Google

[boomerangutang]

"no budget" ...to keep photos of crime scene" according to RTP. I can't quite get my thoughts around that one. RTP keep out-doing themselves with blunders. I know little girls and boys with budgets of about 30 baht a month who can keep photos in a safe place - whether actual paper photos, or on computer files. Perhaps we should start a donation drive, to buy the KT police a Bt350 thumb drive. .....but then someone would have to teach them how to store files on a computer. Any volunteers?

[Dogmatix]

A picture is worth what?

Remember this press conference?

1414785018021_wps_24_Bangkok_Thailand_30th_Oct.jpg

Now ask yourself how the head man of a pissant little island gets the top cop of the entire country to sit beside him for an announcement that his son's (long refused) DNA test has come back negative.

You really think DNA (or any other "evidence" for that matter) has any relevance here?

Well said, brother.

Maybe a lot of money changed hands. It would be churlish to refuse an invitation, wouldn't it?

From the above: "Now ask yourself how the head man of a pissant little island gets the top cop of the entire country to sit beside him ..."

He hired the right lawyer.

If I recall what was said at the time it was suggested that there was no clarification of what the hospitals were actually paid to test. All confirmed that their tests proved that HM and his son were related and it is very possible that this all they were paid to test. Now we are being told that the sperm samples may have been used up in the police's initial testing efforts. So how is it possible that that there was enough available for retesting in 4 different hospitals several weeks later?

Re the connections of the pissant HM etc. it was suggested at the time that he punched above his weight class because he was the PDRC organiser who sent the largest number of thugs to be guards at Suthep's demos from Surat which is Suthep's home province. This allegedly gave him a connection with Pra Suthep and thro him to Pravit, now in charge of security affairs in the NCPO, whose brother was Thaksin's police chief and promoted some of the dramatis personae connected with the investigation. These are not my own allegations and I have no idea if they are true or not. Sondhi Limtrakool was one of the people that alleged the connections with Pravit and his brother in an interview he did that was posted on YouTube which may make it more or less credible depending on your view of Sondhi.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Dogmatix

[GOLDBUGGY]

And what condition was David when it has been proven he was drinking all night with friends, and probably not used to a lot of alcohol, being young and a University Student?

Was David a Marital Arts Expert or Kick Boxer? Does he have a history of violence and got into a lot of fights? Was he even expecting to be hit over the head with a Garden Hoe when he was standing Butt Naked? Maybe turned his head to see what was happening to Hannah, and they got that one lucky hit in, that crippled him. Was it a fist fight or did one have a weapon, which always makes this not a fair fight? What history does the accused have for violence and fighting skills?

I think someone else here describe it best. He said a 14 year old kid could beat you to death if he was holding a garden hoe and you had nothing to defend yourself with. David had defensive wounds so he obviously tried. But I tend to agree with that. But is okay if you don't. As both are just honest opinions. .

.

Your making a lot of assumptions there

I am sorry but all my statements ended with a Question Marks, as I was asking you a question. I was doing that because you made the "assumption" that these 2 tiny men couldn't overpower 1 larger man. So I thought maybe you knew that David had special fighting skills, and his sobriety at the time or knew the accused background and fighting skills, to make such an assumption.

But, I guess not.

Well there is cctv video footage of David walking back down the strip around 1.30am iirc, apparently on his way to look for Hannah, and he did not appear worse for wear at that time.

Here is a LINK to 3 more tiny Migrant Workers who to look at could not have over taken a big man.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/wife-yachtsman-pirates-thailand

[Dogmatix]

And so the farce continues

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy/status/619641656413794304'>

Crime scene photos not in police file, how useful for the RTP, so now they can say anything they want about the scene including the statement that the clothes were in a nice neat pile??? Perhaps they better link up a connection to this thread or even try Google

Funny they have no budget to keep photos of crime scene, which costs nothing, but had the budget for cameras and phones to take copious pictures of the bodies and spray them all over Facebook, Liveleaks, Rotten.com & etc.

[minikev]

These murders as well as been the most horrific thing I've ever heard of opened up a huge can of worms for Koh Tao. Until then they had enjoyed the freedom of been able to do pretty much as they wished to gain the tourists money.

I am pretty sure (but not positive) that part of the local council/police's job is to ensure bar owners etc have working cctv covering all areas. If so how is it possible that there is none available for scrutiny in and around certain places. Should it have been checked and not working licences should have been suspended. This does happen frequently in Pattaya.

The murders brought all and sundry to scrutinize what had been going on on the Island. Maybe thats why footage is missing it may have shown other things going on that implicated people. There will have been some very desperate running around cleaning up and ensuring certain things couldn't get to the attention of the public.

For example it was reported at the time that authorities would turn a blind eye to Illegal workers for a monthly fee. If this was true surely people in Authority would need evidence of these illegal workers removing.

I think everyone on here would agree that it would be easy to find drugs etc on the Island as many reports that foreigners would be stopped very late at night and fined for possesion. In truth with working cctv on such a tiny resort area the dealers could have been caught easily.

The Island was used to policing itself in it's own way so the worlds eyes would feel very uncomfortable.

My point is that maybe this is why crucial evidence is not available.

To save you saying it JD yes it is of course just a theory nevertheless spend a moment to consider it.

[soalbundy]

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

The defense dont have to offer anything. They dont need evidence. All they have to do is show reasonable doubt. It is up to the prosecution to prove its case.

At the moment defense may as well go to the pub and have a few beers and at the end of the day go back to court to find out what else the prosecution has failed to prove, or have lost.

So at the moment the prosecution is the best defense the 2 burmese have.

yes but only in a real court with an independent judiciary, remember TIT

[sartoric]

And what condition was David when it has been proven he was drinking all night with friends, and probably not used to a lot of alcohol, being young and a University Student?

Was David a Marital Arts Expert or Kick Boxer? Does he have a history of violence and got into a lot of fights? Was he even expecting to be hit over the head with a Garden Hoe when he was standing Butt Naked? Maybe turned his head to see what was happening to Hannah, and they got that one lucky hit in, that crippled him. Was it a fist fight or did one have a weapon, which always makes this not a fair fight? What history does the accused have for violence and fighting skills?

I think someone else here describe it best. He said a 14 year old kid could beat you to death if he was holding a garden hoe and you had nothing to defend yourself with. David had defensive wounds so he obviously tried. But I tend to agree with that. But is okay if you don't. As both are just honest opinions. .

.

Your making a lot of assumptions there

I am sorry but all my statements ended with a Question Marks, as I was asking you a question. I was doing that because you made the "assumption" that these 2 tiny men couldn't overpower 1 larger man. So I thought maybe you knew that David had special fighting skills, and his sobriety at the time or knew the accused background and fighting skills, to make such an assumption.

But, I guess not.

Well there is cctv video footage of David walking back down the strip around 1.30am iirc, apparently on his way to look for Hannah, and he did not appear worse for wear at that time.

Here is a LINK to 3 more tiny Migrant Workers who to look at could not have over taken a big man.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/wife-yachtsman-pirates-thailand

Hardly a fair comparison, this man was 64 and murdered by pirates on his own yacht.

David Miller was 24, allegedly murdered by hospitality workers on a resort island.

[GOLDBUGGY]

The CIFS chief Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan said a retesting of DNA was not common in foreign countries. So far, she said the retesting was quite rare in Thailand and hence she was not sure about the evidence storage process. (Page 27 News)

Interesting as I would have thought that stuff like DNA is kept forever.

Here is a LINK which goes into more detail about the preservation of evidence. It is USA based as I can't find anything about this in Thailand. Or in English anyway. So take this at face value.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/free-innocent/improve-the-law/fact-sheets/preservation-of-evidence

This must be a typo, ie Khunying Pornthip must have said that retesting of DNA evidence is NOT uncommon in foreign countries but rare in Thailand.

No! I think it is right.

Honestly, How many murder trails have you heard where they Retested DNA Evidence? I honestly can't think of any, but then honestly I wasn't really watching closely for that either. But this is not to say it doesn't happen. Only to say it is not an automatic right in any country, where the Defendant has a right to retest all the DNA collected as Evidence. It must be Court Approved and there must be a good reason why,

Do I think this is fair? No! I think everyone should have the right to do this for a serious crime. No different than getting a second doctors opinion when diagnosed with something serious. But it is what it is.

[thailandchilli]

The CIFS chief Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan said a retesting of DNA was not common in foreign countries. So far, she said the retesting was quite rare in Thailand and hence she was not sure about the evidence storage process. (Page 27 News)

Interesting as I would have thought that stuff like DNA is kept forever.

Here is a LINK which goes into more detail about the preservation of evidence. It is USA based as I can't find anything about this in Thailand. Or in English anyway. So take this at face value.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/free-innocent/improve-the-law/fact-sheets/preservation-of-evidence

This must be a typo, ie Khunying Pornthip must have said that retesting of DNA evidence is NOT uncommon in foreign countries but rare in Thailand.

Yep sure thats a typo, re testing happens internationally and I would assume there are full procedures in place for this to happen

Houston shut its police crime lab's DNA division for several years after 2002 because of problems with the education and training of examiners, misleading testimony and improper evidence storage, leading to at least three exonerations and retesting of thousands of cases. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/local/forensic-analysis-methods/

The Health Sciences Authority (HSA) has initiated the re-test of the DNA samples of 87 criminal cases as a precautionary measure in consultation with the Singapore Police Force (SPF) http://www.hsa.gov.sg/content/hsa/en/News_Events/Press_Releases/2012/hsa_re-tests_dna_cases.html

[stephenterry]

I suggest one thing is very clear. The whole prosecution case rests on the DNA evidence (in the main) and we have heard that most, if not all, of the critical DNA samples are either 'lost' or 'used up'. Add to that the 'missing' CSI pictures owing to a lack of budget, and we have a picture of the RTP thwarting any attempt to validate their conclusions that the B2 are the guilty ones.

I would suggest that had these conclusions been true and factual, the samples would have been made available, because it is key critical evidence (however incompetent the chain of custody was). Logically, it is clear (to me) that the conclusions were false or knowingly inaccurate - enough to cast reasonable doubt that the B2 are guilty of the stated crimes.

Everything else is window dressing, as we have seen the last three days.

Nevertheless, I have a feeling in my water that the unvalidated conclusive reports could be accepted by the court unless the defence can demonstrate that their recent acquisition of DNA and autopsy report findings from the UK materially conflict with the prosecution's assertions. And would the court accept or reject it?

All in all, the victims' families must have had a painful introduction to how justice works here. Very sad.

[GOLDBUGGY]

And what condition was David when it has been proven he was drinking all night with friends, and probably not used to a lot of alcohol, being young and a University Student?

Was David a Marital Arts Expert or Kick Boxer? Does he have a history of violence and got into a lot of fights? Was he even expecting to be hit over the head with a Garden Hoe when he was standing Butt Naked? Maybe turned his head to see what was happening to Hannah, and they got that one lucky hit in, that crippled him. Was it a fist fight or did one have a weapon, which always makes this not a fair fight? What history does the accused have for violence and fighting skills?

I think someone else here describe it best. He said a 14 year old kid could beat you to death if he was holding a garden hoe and you had nothing to defend yourself with. David had defensive wounds so he obviously tried. But I tend to agree with that. But is okay if you don't. As both are just honest opinions. .

.

Your making a lot of assumptions there

I am sorry but all my statements ended with a Question Marks, as I was asking you a question. I was doing that because you made the "assumption" that these 2 tiny men couldn't overpower 1 larger man. So I thought maybe you knew that David had special fighting skills, and his sobriety at the time or knew the accused background and fighting skills, to make such an assumption.

But, I guess not.

Well there is cctv video footage of David walking back down the strip around 1.30am iirc, apparently on his way to look for Hannah, and he did not appear worse for wear at that time.

Here is a LINK to 3 more tiny Migrant Workers who to look at could not have over taken a big man.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/wife-yachtsman-pirates-thailand

Hardly a fair comparison, this man was 64 and murdered by pirates on his own yacht.

David Miller was 24, allegedly murdered by hospitality workers on a resort island.

It wasn't meant to be a comparison to David Miller in size and age to a 64 year old man. It was meant to show that even though you may look innocent, and are small in size, it does not mean you cannot commit murder.

Noticed that the 3 accused were all Burmese, and like the 2 accused, and in looks and size. They admitted to the crime after an eye witness, and DNA tests on there bloody clothes.Two of the accused, aged 19 and 18, got 25 Year in Prison, as they pleading guilty and had their sentence cut into half. he third accused was also found guilty of murder. But he was only 17 years old. A Real Boy! He will be held in custody until he is 24 years old. They were also all fishermen, which hardly puts them in the Body Building Weight Class.

So if there was a comparison at all then it is with these 3 Convicted Burmese Murders, and the accused, to show that their looks, size, age, and the country they come from, has nothing to do with whether or not they can commit murder.

[does]

My thoughts entirely. The condom tale gave me doubts from the very start.

I have not had an opinion till now on this case. Now I do and hope these judges have common sense.

I have no idea as I said in my last post how a condom is part of the evidence and if a proper DNA test was done I am 99% certain

it will come up without and DNA of the Myanmar suspects.

I have been a journalist for more than 30 years. covering many rape/murder scenes. Never in my reporting history has a condom been used by someone who is

raping and murdering someone. That type of mind set does not say " OH I am going to have sex with this person I will murder later so I should where a condom" or the other mind set is

" I Had better wear a condom so I don't leave my DNA"

Unless it is a boyfriend/girlfriend. husband/wife situation I don't think the mastermind of this murder will use a condom .

This whole case smells I hope these guy guilty or not have good lawyers

[Cake Monster]

Is it possible that DNA can be tested as to its date of origin ? IE - how old is it.

Lost DNA, Foriegn Journalists, ( so many that all do not understand Thai correctly ), and now the DNA re-surfaces.

Any dead chicken round the back of the courtroom ?

[stephenterry]

A possible scenario:

When Hannah's body was returned to the UK, DNA samples were taken. Foreign DNA was discovered, maybe from traces of sperm. This was subsequently compared to the DNA of the B2 and found not to match (it would be an extremely simple matter to obtain the DNA of the B2 even if they were in jail or possibly the DNA of the parents).

This could very well account for the "discrepancy" and is extremely "significant".

As the defense, this is obviously something you would not want to bring to light too early on in the trial (poker players will understand).

I do believe the "delay" have other purposes as this isn't a poker game, destroying the ONLY incriminating evidence the RTP claims they have as early as possible would make the judge look incredibly stupid to let the trial continue, so I'm guessing the defense has another agenda.

The DNA is the ONLY real evidence according to the RTP, so why would the defense let this charade go on further?

I have no clue but to believe that the defense lawyers unfortunately don't have any DNA evidence from the UK forensics, but I'm only speculating.

The longer the trial prolongs, the more shadows will be presented and the whole bogus trial will be clouded.

I tend to agree with you, KamalaRider, that sperm DNA, has not been provided to the defence team, but other DNA found when an autopsy was carried out on who? David or Hannah? And this DNA could be non-asian, which opens up a whole new can of worms.

[Rykbanlor]

My thoughts entirely. The condom tale gave me doubts from the very start.

I have not had an opinion till now on this case. Now I do and hope these judges have common sense.

I have no idea as I said in my last post how a condom is part of the evidence and if a proper DNA test was done I am 99% certain

it will come up without and DNA of the Myanmar suspects.

I have been a journalist for more than 30 years. covering many rape/murder scenes. Never in my reporting history has a condom been used by someone who is

raping and murdering someone. That type of mind set does not say " OH I am going to have sex with this person I will murder later so I should where a condom" or the other mind set is

" I Had better wear a condom so I don't leave my DNA"

Unless it is a boyfriend/girlfriend. husband/wife situation I don't think the mastermind of this murder will use a condom .

This whole case smells I hope these guy guilty or not have good lawyers

No doubt - I already speculated that the condom was probably left as an afterthought to confuse the crime scene.

[DM07]

Here is one thing about the Lost/Finished- DNA, that really bugs me.

So...if it was all a "misunderstanding" due to the lack of Thai- language knowledge...

This is a court case involving ENGLISH people and it has caught INTERNATIONAL media attention- did NO ONE EVER thinka bout press releases in ENGLISH?

...oh...but then again: this is Thailand, where no one needs English- language skills, because...they all speak Thai here!

What a bunch of pathetic losers!

[shaurene]

I truly think this case is a setup from start to Finnish. I am a great believer in Karma and what high up Buda Monks can do. I hope all good THAIS who can see this case for what it realy is go the thier temples and ask the top mnks to send bad Karma to the people who falsified this case against these poor innocent Kidd's. My wife brother is very high monk with his look alike animal skin robes and he loves me I am going to ask him to try do something.

[stephenterry]

Has anyone considered the remote possibility that the burmese pair actually did commit this gruesome crime ? The very first thing that any s***bag defence lawyer is going to do is instruct his clients to retract their confession and say it was obtained through beating. Just a thought. I have fired numerous staff in this country for theft, and never has one admitted it, and to look at them you would think them so sweet and pure they would be incapable of any wrongdoing. Hopefully real evidence will shed some light on the situation.

Well, I did. Darn near got crucified here for even suggesting that.

People in these parts don't cater to strangers having a different opinion. So forget about free speech here. They much prefer you join by coming up with some conspiracy theory. The Bigger the Better.

There are basic differences in outlook, between the posters herein seeking truth and justice (T&J) and those seeking to shield everyone connected to the Headman; (Headman's people shielders or HPS). I'll put it in a nutshell . . . . .

>>> T&J want all evidence re-checked for veracity, and want all revealed. HPS are doing all they can to suppress evidence.

>>> T&J have made many viable suggestions for investigating items/people which could provide evidence for finding who the real killers are. HPS has put up roadblocks to every suggestion.

>>> T&J are willing to concede the two Burmese are guilty, if the evidence and eyewitnesses prove it. HPS are incapable of conceding any of the H's people could be guilty of any wrongdoing, regardless of evidence which might prove it.

>>> T&J are open to discussing all facets of the crime and investigation, and are eager for DNA of all persons-of-interest to be examined and compared to DNA found in/on victim. HPS want no such things. Indeed, HPS want no discussion or scrutiny of anyone connected to the Headman, and they sometimes hint at defamation of character lawsuits (or bodily harm) to back their fixation with shielding anyone connected to the Headman.

I'm in the EITB2DDISOTTHMPCDI Group

(Even if the B2 didn't do it someone other than the HM's People coulda done it.)

While it could be true, it is more likely that at least one of the perps are connected in some way to the powerful families, otherwise the relatives wouldn't have gone to great lengths to obstruct the initial police from doing their job. Planting false evidence/misinformation, was one such comment from a police officer. And now the threats made to reporters at the trial tends to add credence to Boom's assertions, although it is possible that their motives are purely one of self interest in 'protecting' their island's 'reputation' of a (now safe) and fun place to spend money.

[joebrown]

The CIFS chief Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan said a retesting of DNA was not common in foreign countries. So far, she said the retesting was quite rare in Thailand and hence she was not sure about the evidence storage process. (Page 27 News)

Interesting as I would have thought that stuff like DNA is kept forever.

Here is a LINK which goes into more detail about the preservation of evidence. It is USA based as I can't find anything about this in Thailand. Or in English anyway. So take this at face value.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/free-innocent/improve-the-law/fact-sheets/preservation-of-evidence

This must be a typo, ie Khunying Pornthip must have said that retesting of DNA evidence is NOT uncommon in foreign countries but rare in Thailand.

No! I think it is right.

Honestly, How many murder trails have you heard where they Retested DNA Evidence? I honestly can't think of any, but then honestly I wasn't really watching closely for that either. But this is not to say it doesn't happen. Only to say it is not an automatic right in any country, where the Defendant has a right to retest all the DNA collected as Evidence. It must be Court Approved and there must be a good reason why,

Do I think this is fair? No! I think everyone should have the right to do this for a serious crime. No different than getting a second doctors opinion when diagnosed with something serious. But it is what it is.

"No! I think it is right.

Honestly, How many murder trails have you heard where they Retested DNA Evidence? I honestly can't think of any, but then honestly I wasn't really watching closely for that either. But this is not to say it doesn't happen"

I had to read the above statement a few times to be sure that in reality, you contradicted the previous poster, then admitted you had no idea what you were asserting..

Actually, the trial of the B2 is panning out as many non-TP acolytes predicted. eg evidence used-up, misunderstood, lost, no budget etc all in the name of Thai justice (another oxymoron). BTW, I use TP to mean Thai Police. To precede this with the letter R is IMHO an insult to the Thai Monarchy.

[Rykbanlor]

[SOTIRIOS]

............perhaps 'very telling'........

[boomerangutang]

There's a skit with Steve Martin on Saturday Night Live. He's playing a role of being a midieval craftsman and goes on a monologue ruminating about the concept of introducing a jury in a trial. With a bright face looking upward, he says something like, "There could be a group of men, all them peers, if you like - from the same village as the accused. They would hear the same evidence as the judge hears, but get this: the group would make the final decision as to the guilt or innocence of the accused. (his voice climbs in enthusiasm) There could be nine of them. No, there could be 11, no thirteen, or..... (his voice lowers to cynicism). Naw, it would never work. Forget about it." And goes back to his craft, head lowered.

I thought about that segment, and how it could apply to this trial:

The judge could suddently stand up and, with a bright face, say something like, "Wait a minute. How about the police go back to square one and objectively try to find the real culprits of the heinous crime. They could gather evidence, interview witnesses, follow leads, professionally gather and test evidence. Then maybe we could find out who really committed these crimes. Oh wait a minute....." (he then looks around and sees who is in the court, which brings him back to reality) ".....ummm, ok, not possible in Thailand. Ok, forget what I just said, umm....." (looks at his notes, sits down) "....prosecutor, please resume."

[bamukloy]

As for the prospect of even one of these guys pulling off this crime...

Not wanting to be crude, but if a male victim was laying on top of a female victim, in a certain act, then even if one midget sneaks up from behind them with a hoe..

well...it doesnt take much imagination. A very long,heavy instrument with a very long and wide swinging ark...as the first blow..

As i have said, i havent got a horse in this race, but im suprised that the "tiny feeble asian against a big westerner" crowd cant think outside of the

box,

Or at least cant think of scenarios outside of their own superiorority complexes.

I can think outside the box. So here goes, if a tiny Asian crept up behind a much bigger man with a garden hoe and hit him with it............ I think the man who had been hit would have been smashed to pieces on the back of his head. Now you think outside of your box and tell me how many cuts did the big man who was laying down have on the back of his head ?

well i guess only those that did an autopsy would know. They certainly havent told us everything.

But if you were going to incapacitate someone with one blow of a hoe, coming from behind with the victim on the ground, either laying or sitting, you would think theyd go for the head.

I get your point though. The pic i saw was showing a 2 inch or so gash under the chin, on the right side if im not mistaken?

Even thats inconsistent with what they are saying as it looks like it could have been inflicted with a short bladed instrument such as an oyster shucker for example..but for sure these guys would have all sorts of nasty weapons these days.

[Oziex1]

All this talk of retesting DNA is it in fact retesting or just testing for the first time, early on there was some discussion on the speed of the original testing and as for the DNA testing of mumnuts or whatever his name is well how long did that take to prove is innocence.

The trial is a joke but will we be laughing at the end?

[cracker1]

Somyot said the local police investigator, Lt Col Somsak Nurod, was vague in his testimony and therefore was misinterpreted.

Why is the court accepting "vague testimony" and not insisting on clear, accurate and precise testimony from senior police officers ?