Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[BritTim]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

We may not like it, but it is fairly convincing. These are not records the RTP can "lose" or "use up". I have tended to discount Nomsod as a suspect for a while, and this increases my impression that he was not involved.

[berybert]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

I thought he was ruled out when his DNA didn't match. Just how many times do they have to try to convince people it wasn't him, to encourage people to believe it was him

He was in school

His DNA didn't match

His phone records prove he was in Bangkok.

And all the while he isn't on trial.

Now onto the people who are on trial. Lets see if you can provide one bit of solid evidence it was them. Put a hundredth of the effort into some real evidence to prove it was them as you have to prove it wasn't Nom.

P.S. None of the evidence you have provided to convince us it wasn't him holds much water.

Ok, berybert (aka NomSod friend)

Show some evidence coward boy was at school, verifiable by more than one person.

Next, if he's innocent, release DNA results. While he's at it, give a dental imprint.

If his phone records clear him, why can't the public verify that like any normal country? Why can't defense teams or journalists record or verify any evidence?

We're supposed to take the accused (NOT Zaw and Win) at their word? And the RTP at their word?

Allow me to speak for a large portion of westerners here, Get Bent.

This case means something to us and we won't let it go, collectively, we will make sure Hannah and David's brutal deaths aren't swept under the tainted KT sand.

I think you may have misread my post.

I am of the belief that Nomsod should be on trial along with several of his friends and or family.

Try reading it again.

P.S. I have no wish to be friends with murderers.

[JohnThailandJohn]

• At around 10pm, Miller and Witheridge - who arrived on the island separately but were staying at the same hotel - join friends at Chopper Bar in the northern part of Sairee beach to watch a football match.
• Witherige and three other British friends, named Emma, Matthew, and Tom, leave Chopper Bar at around midnight and head south towards AC bar, which they enter at around 12:30am.
• According to Pol.Col. Cherdpong, Witheridge was not confronted, harassed, interrupted, or trailed by any suspicious individuals while she and the others walked to AC Bar. I studied hundreds of hours of footage to make sure of that, Your Honor, he said today, citing this as evidence that the murder was not premeditated.
• At around the same time that Witheridge and the others entered AC Bar, Miller and his friend, Christopher, are seen leaving Chopper Bar and heading south towards AC bar.
• The pair later separates, with Christopher stopping at a convenience store.
• Miller is then seen walking past AC bar and showing no intention to enter, Pol.Col. Cherdpong told the court.
• Miller walks towards his hotel, where he presumably stays for around 20 minutes.
• Miller is then seen walking back towards Chopper Bar in a visibly drunken state, according to Pol.Col. Cherdpong. Miller can be seen punching the air with his right arm.
• Miller arrives at Chopper Bar around 1:40 am to find it closed for the night. He then walks east into an alley, stopping to buy a pair of sunglasses at a convenience store, which he hangs on his shirt.
• CCTV footage shows Miller turning back towards AC Bar again, which had a small crowd of foreign tourists gathered outside its entrance. Pol.Col. Cherdpong said he believes Miller was looking for a place to drink and was told by tourists that AC Bar is open late. He is seen entering the bar at around 2 am.
• There was no more footage of Miller and Witheridge, who police believe left AC Bar through a back exit onto the beach. AC Bar is one of the few bars that opens directly onto the beach, according to Pol.Col. Cherdpong. The officer said footage obtained from the entrance of the bar did not show any sign of Miller and Witheridge.

The investigative officer also showed the judges dozens of video clips allegedly reconstructing the movement of the two suspects and a third person, who were seen buying beer, cigarettes, and heading toward Sairee beach on a motorcycle with a guitar on the night of the murder, 15 September 2014.

Pol.Col. Cherdpong also showed the court footage of a small Asian man who was seen running back and forth several times between 3 and 5 am on the night of the crime. According to the officer, the man was traveling between the crime scene on the southern part of the beach and a Burmese community nearby.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437573990

"Visibly drunken state". But the pages of the police autopsy reports that were posted on line said there was no trace of alcohol or illicit drugs in either David or Hannah.

I thought they said they didn't release the toxicology reports publicly out of respect for the family. Also thought it was widely reported the two had been drinking that night.

Edited July 22, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

So there we have it, the verdict is a formality Three judges oversaw the trial today. The lead judge, who was highly engaged throughout the hearing, suggested that the verdict in October is unlikely to settle the matter once and for all; he personally advised the prosecutor to prepare the CCTV footage in a more simple format so that it will be easy for both of you in the Appeal Court.[/size]

The trial is just a sick show

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437573990

You do realize both a guilty and non-guilty verdict can be appealed. How does the judge believing neither side will accept the verdict without a fight, if not in their favor, indicate a sick show?

Are you sure a non guilty verdict can be appealed in Thailand?

Sure, I am guessing it is also the case in some other places too but the only place I am sure of is Thailand and countries that don't allow it

[berybert]

So far we have seen two people on CCTV that the RTP said were David and Hannah, clearly they were not David or Hannah.

We have seen CCTV of someone who looks like Nomsod who Mon has admitted to it being him, yet a policeman says it is a small man.

We have seen footage of David and Hannah.

We have yet to see any CCTV of the Burmese.

A man who cannot tell the difference between a taller skinny man who we are meant to believe is a middle aged older man, who we are meant to believe is a small Burmese man.......... this is the man we are meant to believe ?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

I thought he was ruled out when his DNA didn't match. Just how many times do they have to try to convince people it wasn't him, to encourage people to believe it was him

He was in school

His DNA didn't match

His phone records prove he was in Bangkok.

And all the while he isn't on trial.

Now onto the people who are on trial. Lets see if you can provide one bit of solid evidence it was them. Put a hundredth of the effort into some real evidence to prove it was them as you have to prove it wasn't Nom.

P.S. None of the evidence you have provided to convince us it wasn't him holds much water.

It has always been very clear they ruled him out prior to the DNA test, when they confirmed he was in Bangkok at the time, and that the DNA test was something done on a volunteer basis to stop the idiotic conspiracy theories on the internet. The only new thing learned is they did check phone records which so many people, who saw the video of him in Bangkok at the time, stated they should have done and would be the way to confirm his aliby

[catsanddogs]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

I thought he was ruled out when his DNA didn't match. Just how many times do they have to try to convince people it wasn't him, to encourage people to believe it was him

He was in school

His DNA didn't match

His phone records prove he was in Bangkok.

And all the while he isn't on trial.

Now onto the people who are on trial. Lets see if you can provide one bit of solid evidence it was them. Put a hundredth of the effort into some real evidence to prove it was them as you have to prove it wasn't Nom.

P.S. None of the evidence you have provided to convince us it wasn't him holds much water.

It has always been very clear they ruled him out prior to the DNA test, when they confirmed he was in Bangkok at the time, and that the DNA test was something done on a volunteer basis to stop the idiotic conspiracy theories on the internet. The only new thing learned is they did check phone records which so many people, who saw the video of him in Bangkok at the time, stated they should have done and would be the way to confirm his aliby

It has always been very clear they ruled him out prior to the DNA test - clear to who?

What ' idiotic conspiracy theories'?

Who checked the phone records? Are 'they' to be trusted?

[silverado]

B2 are small. man on vidéo is not. this is a fact showed by computer analysis... what the judge will believe ? the facts or the words of witness police officer ????

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/photos/pb.596740650403664.-2207520000.1437590450./727855663958828/?type=3&theater

Edited July 22, 2015 by silverado

[catsanddogs]

The 'little presidents' who deny press freedom by attacking journalists

From veiled allusions to open death threats, says the survey, the style varies from country to country but the goal remains the same – to gag information.

Thailand’s prime minister, Prayut Chan-o-cha, was asked at a news conference in March 2015 how the government would deal with journalists who fail to stick to the official line. “We’ll probably just execute them,” he replied.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jul/22/the-little-presidents-who-deny-press-freedom-by-attacking-journalists

[berybert]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

I thought he was ruled out when his DNA didn't match. Just how many times do they have to try to convince people it wasn't him, to encourage people to believe it was him

He was in school

His DNA didn't match

His phone records prove he was in Bangkok.

And all the while he isn't on trial.

Now onto the people who are on trial. Lets see if you can provide one bit of solid evidence it was them. Put a hundredth of the effort into some real evidence to prove it was them as you have to prove it wasn't Nom.

P.S. None of the evidence you have provided to convince us it wasn't him holds much water.

It has always been very clear they ruled him out prior to the DNA test, when they confirmed he was in Bangkok at the time, and that the DNA test was something done on a volunteer basis to stop the idiotic conspiracy theories on the internet. The only new thing learned is they did check phone records which so many people, who saw the video of him in Bangkok at the time, stated they should have done and would be the way to confirm his aliby

Yes JTJ they ruled him out the day they changed Police chiefs. Do you really think a DNA test done on T.V. with the head of Thailands chief of police sat next to him would do anything other than stir up the 'CT'S'..

They have made no real attempt to clear him, just more a case of making it plain that even if he had something to do with it, there is no way he would be charged with it.

[Lozza]

Are they going to bring Sean back to tell his side of the story? Seeing as it was his bestest friend who was murdered? And he, oddly ran away and is now living in Italy.

I don't think he's in Italy now

Yup, conveniently fell asleep that evening but seems to know that his best mate put up a fight protecting Hannah, backtracks, says who did it, backtracks again, visible wounds which no one has corroborated his alibi for, has altercation with mafia, bloody guitar shown to anyone who wants to take a pic, hides out in Italy

I personally don't believe that David and Space Cadet Sean were mates, they possibly met in a bar once or twice. Has it been established whether he was in bed with a hangover all night or was he running his pub crawl franchise on the night in question.

[smedly]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

I thought he was ruled out when his DNA didn't match. Just how many times do they have to try to convince people it wasn't him, to encourage people to believe it was him

He was in school

His DNA didn't match

His phone records prove he was in Bangkok.

And all the while he isn't on trial.

Now onto the people who are on trial. Lets see if you can provide one bit of solid evidence it was them. Put a hundredth of the effort into some real evidence to prove it was them as you have to prove it wasn't Nom.

P.S. None of the evidence you have provided to convince us it wasn't him holds much water.

Ok, berybert (aka NomSod friend)

Show some evidence coward boy was at school, verifiable by more than one person.

Next, if he's innocent, release DNA results. While he's at it, give a dental imprint.

If his phone records clear him, why can't the public verify that like any normal country? Why can't defense teams or journalists record or verify any evidence?

We're supposed to take the accused (NOT Zaw and Win) at their word? And the RTP at their word?

Allow me to speak for a large portion of westerners here, Get Bent.

This case means something to us and we won't let it go, collectively, we will make sure Hannah and David's brutal deaths aren't swept under the tainted KT sand.

100% agree and here is a little more for thought

The original police that were removed from the case suspected Nomsod and Mon

The running man cctv footage was released to the public by the original police team that were promptly removed, so could not be retracted or left out, it IMO would never have been seen or shown by the second police team as it would not fit their agenda

• Phone records - show them, otherwise it is nothing more than hearsay
• DNA tests results of Mon and Nomsod - show them along with the evidence, otherwise it is nothing more than hearsay, but then not on trial at this point.
• CCTV from AC bar - police should never have been denied access, I'll wager it would have shown Nomsod in the bar that night wearing "light coloured shorts"
• Running man was wearing light coloured shorts - none of the accused were videoed in light coloured shorts
• Critical claimed DNA evidence unavailable to the defence team to confirm results - any other judicial process that I am aware of would not allow this evidence
• Police are making claims not backed by evidence (big one for me) police cannot simply make a claim without the backup of evidence to support it, otherwise it is nothing more than hearsay, being a cop doesn't make something more believable.

I am not saying claiming anyone is innocent, but nothing presented so far in case would convince me beyond any reasonable doubt of guilt or that there is a case to answer.

As for the quoted Judge comments, I would be more inclined to assume he was hinting to the prosecution and their future appeal not the defence

Case closed

[KunMatt]

Apologies in advance if this breaks any rules. However.... Read this gent's.

This is just gossip and you know it. Nomsod was at Uni in Bangkok and is no longer a suspect. Also the DNA test proves that,

Are you referring to the DNA test that his father organised and ran? You are using that as a defense??

What about the CCTV footage that the first police investigators said definitely implicated a local (I'm sure you know who) and another local who was on the run (likewise). How can they have footage which definitely proves that 2 locals are involved in the crime and then later a different police chief whonis appointed changes the story and the CCTV footage is withheld by the family of person who was accused of the crime?

This whole case is a complete shambles and you are complicit in letting 2 innocent young men hang for a crime they didn't commit. It's sickening that you defend it for whatever your personal reasons have been for the last 9 months on here.

I hope for the victims families that justice is done but moreso I hope that the truth comes out so that you and the other handfull of trolls who try to derail, report every post that counters your conspiracy, and try to close every Koh Tao thread, you can hang your heads in shame for the things you have all said and done to promote this conspiracy.

[catsanddogs]

B2 are small. man on vidéo is not. this is a fact showed by computer analysis... what the judge will believe ? the facts or the words of witness police officer ????

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/photos/pb.596740650403664.-2207520000.1437590450./727855663958828/?type=3&theater

Like.

[JohnThailandJohn]

B2 are small. man on vidéo is not. this is a fact showed by computer analysis... what the judge will believe ? the facts or the words of witness police officer ????

No doubt the two defendants are short and no idea if the other video is one of them or their friend and really don't care but I did want to point out or confirm you are not considering the picture you posted as being the "computer analysis" are you?

[Lozza]

The B2 are the image of their Mum's. Sad to hear about Wins Dad passing away this trial tortured him.

[catsanddogs]

Are they going to bring Sean back to tell his side of the story? Seeing as it was his bestest friend who was murdered? And he, oddly ran away and is now living in Italy.

I don't think he's in Italy now

Yup, conveniently fell asleep that evening but seems to know that his best mate put up a fight protecting Hannah, backtracks, says who did it, backtracks again, visible wounds which no one has corroborated his alibi for, has altercation with mafia, bloody guitar shown to anyone who wants to take a pic, hides out in Italy

I personally don't believe that David and Space Cadet Sean were mates, they possibly met in a bar once or twice. Has it been established whether he was in bed with a hangover all night or was he running his pub crawl franchise on the night in question.

Someone might have told Sean it would be better for all concerned if he said he was in bed with a hangover. Agree that they probably weren't mates and seemed disgusting and unauthentic when Sean spoke about David as though they'd been best buddies etc. 'Bro' my ar*e.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I personally don't believe that David and Space Cadet Sean were mates, they possibly met in a bar once or twice.

I am not sure it is even relevant but I wondered the same thing. The Sean character seems like somebody who just wanted to insert himself into the case for self importance or attention ... until that proved to be a mistake for him (if we are even to believe the rest of his story). Would wager large they were not friends and would not be at all surprised if they never even met previously but suspect at best they had some or a common friend(s) or acquaintances.

[catsanddogs]

B2 are small. man on vidéo is not. this is a fact showed by computer analysis... what the judge will believe ? the facts or the words of witness police officer ????

No doubt the two defendants are short and no idea if the other video is one of them or their friend and really don't care but I did want to point out or confirm you are not considering the picture you posted as being the "computer analysis" are you?

'really don't care'

And therein lies the problem and concern.

[Blackfox]

If I remember correctly they were acquaintances when studying in Leeds.

As I previously posted, I think Sean is just a drop out high on hedonism, lacking moral fibre, and cried like a little girl when his personal security was compromised...if it really was.

[Blackfox]

JTJ like GB; you need to give it a rest.

You guys are shitting most of us to tears.

If I write anything else, I'll be banned.

[catsanddogs]

JTJ like GB; you need to give it a rest.

You guys are shitting most of us to tears.

If I write anything else, I'll be banned.

TV holidays aren't necessarily a bad thing. They give you time to get back to your instincts and reaffirm your beliefs without having to respond to others with queer agendas.

[Nigeone]

4 days now and still not heard or seen anything coming from the court and prosecution that remotely proves the B2 are guilty..

Sketchy at best corrupt by RTP and authorities looking even more likely. This whole episode is so sad. Still no undeniable conclusive issue presented by police that can't be challenged or discounted.

[JLCrab]

"DNA evidence is not available to the defense to retest."

Then what about the police chief General Somyot declaring on the afternoon of the 10th of this month that they had ALL DNA ? He says they lost nothing (though the hair is lost and the cig butt is 'used up'). Is it yet another lie? A bluff? The truth? A way to further procrastinate and drag out the time line of the trial?

Re; RTP saying they have phone records proving NS was in Bangkok. I think that's a lie, and just as assuredly, there will be zero objective proof (phone records from phone service, for example) to substantiate it. If, however, RTP is saying there was a phone call on his phone (in Bkk) anytime after 8:30 am on Monday, then it proves nothing, because getting from KT to Bkk in a hurry, can be done in 3.5 hours. The crime wrapped up at 5 am.

Sometimes the guy with the balls sits silently till his time arrives! I also wait pensively.

As FDR might say, "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

reason for edit: quotes were messed up.

FDR (Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 32nd US President) might have said it; Teddy Roosevelt (26th US President) DID say it.

Edited July 22, 2015 by JLCrab

[JohnThailandJohn]

4 days now and still not heard or seen anything coming from the court and prosecution that remotely proves the B2 are guilty..

Sketchy at best corrupt by RTP and authorities looking even more likely. This whole episode is so sad. Still no undeniable conclusive issue presented by police that can't be challenged or discounted.

Not that there is any evidence or proof the state will provide that will be offered that will not be discounted by many here, it would be unusual for a Prosecutor to start the case with their strongest evidence. The early days are about building up the foundation of the case and various facts that will (should) be tied together later.

Also. you are not there to hear everything and the people mainly volunteering information to the press are on the defense side and the news outlets covering the court case are sharing very little about the actual proceedings. Not like we are going to here gavel to gavel coverage here being the proceeding are in Thai and Thailand where trials are not covered like the west or often video taped like the US. Kind of normal for something to be big news when it happens, when there is an arrest and then when there is a verdict and then less coverage, but still some, when it comes to the appeals and commutations.

I haven't even seen the court case being covered in the Thai Language news and if it is it isn't considered much of news. Again this is SOP here but it will make the news again once there is a disposition but it won't be to the extend of the original coverage up through the arrest.

Edited July 22, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[Zeberdee]

If I remember correctly they were acquaintances when studying in Leeds.

As I previously posted, I think Sean is just a drop out high on hedonism, lacking moral fibre, and cried like a little girl when his personal security was compromised...if it really was.

According to Sean's original Facebook page that doesn't exist anymore, yes Sean said they were at uni together briefly in Leeds, and that David was on KT to catch up with Sean.

[catsanddogs]

• Miller is then seen walking back towards Chopper Bar in a visibly drunken state, according to Pol.Col. Cherdpong. Miller can be seen punching the air with his right arm.

Miller arrives at Chopper Bar around 1:40 am to find it closed for the night. He then walks east into an alley, stopping to buy a pair of sunglasses at a convenience store, which he hangs on his shirt.

CCTV footage shows Miller turning back towards AC Bar again, which had a small crowd of foreign tourists gathered outside its entrance. Pol.Col. Cherdpong said he believes Miller was looking for a place to drink and was told by tourists that AC Bar is open late. He is seen entering the bar at around 2 am.

From Ibtimes:

David, 24, is filmed on two different cameras some half an hour apart. In the first taken at 1:27am he is alone, walking back through the busy street to the hotel where he was staying. When what appears to be a local man crosses his path they briefly shake hands as if they know each other, but then he keeps walking.

In the second piece of film, taken some 30 minutes later at 1:56am from the opposite direction of the same street, David is seen walking with two other Westerners, a man and a girl not thought to be Ms Witheridge. None of the other people have been positively identified. The film was obtained by Sky News.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

On the CCTV shown in the above link David is seen at 1.56am walking down a street seemingly chatting to a group of people.Why is there no mention in the policeman's report of David walking down the street chatting with this group of people? Policeman says David entered AC bar around 2am so this was only a couple of minutes after David is with these people chatting. Who are they are what do they know? Would they be able to verify that David was in a 'visibly drunken state' ? Doesn't look in a drunken state from where I'm sitting. Also, as pointed out on another forum by an astute poster - is the policeman referring the the high five with the Asian man in the video when he says David is seen 'punching the air'?

[JLCrab]

This is the theme music I cue every time Boomer mentions the 3.5 hour escape for Koh Tao to somewhere in Bangkok:

Edited July 22, 2015 by JLCrab

[webfact]

Thailand: CCTV Tracked Backpackers' Movements
Defence lawyers say they will be concentrating on DNA evidence, amid claims that police were incompetent and mishandled evidence.

KOH SAMUI: -- The trial of two men accused of murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on a Thai island has been shown CCTV footage of the British backpackers shortly before they were killed.

Two Burmese workers are accused of killing the two Britons on a beach on Koh Tao last September.

Police claimed that Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 22, had confessed to the killings, but both later retracted their statements and said they had been tortured into making them.

As their trial resumed, police told the court that CCTV had captured the last known movements of Ms Witheridge, 23, and Mr Miller, 24.

Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha, superintendent of Investigation Police Division 8, said 17 cameras dotted along a road on the island had recorded pictures of the Britons.

Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller were at the same bar but were seen leaving separately with their friends.

Full story: http://news.sky.com/story/1523281/thailand-cctv-tracked-backpackers-movements

-- skyNEWS 2015-07-23

[JohnThailandJohn]

If I remember correctly they were acquaintances when studying in Leeds.

As I previously posted, I think Sean is just a drop out high on hedonism, lacking moral fibre, and cried like a little girl when his personal security was compromised...if it really was.

According to Sean's original Facebook page that doesn't exist anymore, yes Sean said they were at uni together briefly in Leeds, and that David was on KT to catch up with Sean.

Sean wrote on Facebook:

"My mate Dave lost his life on koh Tao. We were meant to meet up when we found out we were both there at the same time but I fell asleep."

"He was killed that night. I feel f****** terrible."

"I loved you so f****** much brother. I know you tried to save her."

"You are the most honourable guy I’ve ever met. I will miss you terribly."

"I’m sorry I didn’t come out with you that night. Really my heart is breaking."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-know-you-tried-save-4267458

I could be wrong but thought I had read he found out David was on the island via a Facebook post

Edited July 22, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn