Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[fayou]

Interesting Photo on another popular Facebook site that want's the truth .

The police who handled this case claimed that a person on CCTV is a Burmese suspect. However, I don't see any similarity between Mr. Win and the guy on CCTV, especially the nose. What do you think?

nomsod5.jpg

My favorite comparisons

1. right arm

2. shoulder

3. bow legs

1.jpg2.JPG3.jpg

running man cannot be one of the b2 so who ?

It was not maung maung (maw) Maw was asked to run infront of AC BAR CCTV to compare with the images caught on the morning of 15th September. He was released because the image caught and his image did not match.

Edited July 23, 2015 by fayou

[BoristheBlade]

Yesterday emotional scenes were witnessed as the mothers of the accused wailed in distress and hung onto their sons who were shackled and wearing prison attire. Both mothers and sons, who have pleaded not guilty, were visibly distressed. The mothers, both widowed, have travelled to Koh Samui from Myanmar to support their sons during the trial.

This trial is about human lives, isn't it? Whatever the outcome, both sets of families will have endured the most harrowing times that could ever have happened to them.

So sorry.

Yes tragic. Until this section of the trial is finished we really should concentrate on the proceedings and discuss those and for now leave out the speculation on Nomsod as its clogging up the thread and its been discussed thousands of times before.

HUH - I respect what you are saying but the fact that it was deemed necessary by the prosecution to state that Nomsod's phone records prove he was not on Koh Tao has resulted in a refueling of speculation. He is now undoubtedly implicated in the proceedings as I see it which will no doubt be used in some way by the defence.

That could also be a ploy by the prosecution in introducing such person hoping that the defense might use some of their limited time on (from their perspective) a wild goose chase.

Again far too clever, we are talking Thai lawyers not Robert Shapiro

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Policeman describes finding the bodies of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

By Jonathan Samuels, Senior News Correspondent

KOH SAMUI:-- A policeman has described finding the bodies of British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, as the trial of the two men accused of their murder begins in Thailand.

The pair were killed last September shortly after meeting on the holiday island of Koh Tao.

Their bodies were found on the beach. Prosecutors say Hannah, 23, from Norfolk, had been raped and beaten.

David, 24, from Jersey, drowned in the sea after receiving head injuries.

The first witness in the trial on Koh Samui, Lt Jakrapan Kaewkao, told the court he found a gruesome sight as he arrived on the scene shortly after getting a 6.30am call.

He said: "I found a man's body lying on the beach. Then I found the woman's body behind the rocks."

Spots of blood were on the rocks, he added, and the two bodies were several metres apart and nearly naked.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1515031/brit-backpacker-murders-thailand-trial-begins

The first witness in the trial on Koh Samui, Lt Jakrapan Kaewkao, told the court he found a gruesome sight as he arrived on the scene shortly after getting a 6.30am call.

I hope the person the person that made the call is included in the trial .

That simcard is long gone...

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Policeman describes finding the bodies of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

By Jonathan Samuels, Senior News Correspondent

KOH SAMUI:-- A policeman has described finding the bodies of British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, as the trial of the two men accused of their murder begins in Thailand.

The pair were killed last September shortly after meeting on the holiday island of Koh Tao.

Their bodies were found on the beach. Prosecutors say Hannah, 23, from Norfolk, had been raped and beaten.

David, 24, from Jersey, drowned in the sea after receiving head injuries.

The first witness in the trial on Koh Samui, Lt Jakrapan Kaewkao, told the court he found a gruesome sight as he arrived on the scene shortly after getting a 6.30am call.

He said: "I found a man's body lying on the beach. Then I found the woman's body behind the rocks."

Spots of blood were on the rocks, he added, and the two bodies were several metres apart and nearly naked.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1515031/brit-backpacker-murders-thailand-trial-begins

The first witness in the trial on Koh Samui, Lt Jakrapan Kaewkao, told the court he found a gruesome sight as he arrived on the scene shortly after getting a 6.30am call.

I hope the person the person that made the call is included in the trial .

That simcard is long gone...

[Slip]

Todays local report (Norfolk) -

The prosecution says it was this CCTV footage that led them to the alleged murderers.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/court_in_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_watches_video_of_couple_s_last_evening_1_4164406

but here it states (3rd Oct) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2779106/Thai-police-confirm-DNA-samples-taken-Koh-Tao-murder-victims-match-two-Burmese-workers-confessed-killing-British-pair.html

Identified only by the names ‘Win’ and ‘Saw’, the men were held after it was revealed that their DNA matched samples collected from the victims’ bodies.

So was it the CCTV or the DNA that led to the 'alleged murderers'?

Glad to see today's story is using the terms 'Alleged murderers' and 'Suspected murderers'. A step in the right direction.

still wearing the same tee shirt seen wearing in the shop buying cigs, not a spot of blood anywhere to be seen

One of the suspects is seen being led away in handcuffs by police officers

Who is the western guy in this photo?- he is also in another one comparing the heights of the accused and a video. Sorry if this has already been answered but I don't recall seeing it.

[GOLDBUGGY]

JTJ

I think this is that Media Link you are looking for.

October 8, 2014

"Officials from the Myanmar Embassy visited the two accused yesterday and said later the pair admitted killing the tourists. Surat Thani police handed their investigation report into the murders to public prosecutors yesterday."

N.P.

"We met Maung Saw and Maung Win at Koh Samui prison. They told us they committed the crime while they were under the influence of alcohol," said Aung Myo Than, a lawyer from the embassy. However, he said there were wide discrepancies between police statements and what they had said."

Link

http://www.phuketgazette.net/thailand-news/PM-Prayuth-explain-Koh-Tao-murder-probe/37125#ad-image-0

[StealthEnergiser]

Interesting Photo on another popular Facebook site that want's the truth .

The police who handled this case claimed that a person on CCTV is a Burmese suspect. However, I don't see any similarity between Mr. Win and the guy on CCTV, especially the nose. What do you think?

nomsod5.jpg

Edited July 23, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[StealthEnergiser]

[newcomer71]

Things are getting s##tty for prosecution and RTP...

[balo]

Interesting Photo on another popular Facebook site that want's the truth .

The police who handled this case claimed that a person on CCTV is a Burmese suspect. However, I don't see any similarity between Mr. Win and the guy on CCTV, especially the nose. What do you think?

nomsod5.jpg

My favorite comparisons

1. right arm

2. shoulder

3. bow legs

1.jpg2.JPG3.jpg

That is a ridicolus comparison, most slim asian boys of that height would fit in here, another CSI LA contribution.

[stephenterry]

Police say Miller was struck by a single blow. Are they for real? Probably most on here could provide evidence to disprove that claim. Beggars belief.

[Linky]

If the 2 accused did these murders and they get off it will be purely because of police incompetence.

[StealthEnergiser]

https://twitter.com/pakhead/status/624167213008818176

[Dogmatix]

MikeENZ, who apparently provided some insights about life on KT and KP for the TIME Magazine "The Sceptic Isle" story casts doubt on the possibility that the son of an influential figure on the sceptic island could have committed or been involved in the rape and murders because he would have had too much too lose.

Personally I have no idea who committed the crimes and don't wish to point the finger of suspicion at anyone in particular. However, I would like to point out that MikeENZ's theory is inconsistent with the observed behaviour of the sons of wealthy and influential figures in Thailand. Without naming names or citing dates, I list from memory some incidents I recall over the years in Thailand.

- The son of an influential politician was alleged to have shot a policeman in the head at point blank range in a disco over an argument about someone stepping on his toe. No conviction.

- The son of a gangster associated with gambling dens in Bangkok shot the nephew of a Thai diplomat in the face non-fatally in a disco in Bangkok after the victim allegedly stepped on his toe. No prosecution.

- The son of an influential politician became irate when a pick-up truck cut in front of him on a Bangkok street. The pick-up truck was pulled over by bodyguards travelling in another car and the driver was beaten. The politician's son walked towards him and fired a shot that missed. Then he pointed the gun right at his head and pulled the trigger but it failed to fire. No prosecution.

- The son of an influential politician was pulled over by a traffic cop on Pattanakarn Road in Bangkok for a minor violation and got irate when the cop refused to let him go without booking him. So he pulled out his gun and shot the cop in the face non-fatally. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of an influential politician abducted a police sergeant over an unknown dispute and incarcerated him for 2 or 3 days. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of a billionaire who sells cafeinated sugar water to gullible fools all over the world ran over a police sergeant and dragged him on the car's bonnet for 220 metres before tipping him on the road, ensuring death, if it had not already occurred. Then he attempted to get a family servant to claim responsibility for the crime in his place. He was charged but there has been no attempt to bring him to court and almost certainly the case will be allowed expire under Thailand's ridiculous statute of limitations.

- The son of an influential Isaan politician became irate when he was travelling in was overtaken by a pick-up truck on an isolated country road. He speeded up and overtook the pick-up so that he and at least one of his buddies could fire into the pick-up repeatedly with their illegally carried handguns but missed him completely. The pick-up truck owner, a building contractor, was ready for them and returned fire with his own illegal handgun, killing the politician's son instantly. LOL. The pick-up truck owner was prosecuted.

I could go on but I think this pattern illustrates something in the Thai psyche that MikeENZ obviously failed to learn during his brief stint in Thailand as an illegal worker in tourist resorts. Sons of wealthy and influential people are brought up with a sense of entitlement and impunity which makes them believe they can and have and do whatever they want and never have to face any consequences because Daddy will fix any problems that result. The above list indicates that they are often right. This makes their reflexes different from most less privileged people in Thailand or people living in rule of law jurisdictions, who are more likely to stop short at a point where they should be able to see a possibility of spending many years in prison. Since they don't feel they will have to face the consequences of their actions, they don't see any need to control their flashpoints and, in a country where face is so important, this can lead to some ugly situations. Some of these spoiled brats think nothing of killing some one who accidentally steps on their toe. You can imagine how they would feel if they have been slighted sexually and lost face in front of their buddies and servants.

Another point has been raised by other posters, i.e. why would police go to so much trouble and why would the case be escalated to such a high level to protect a fire dancing drifter, even if he was Thai. In the case of the Katherine Horton murder in Samui, the authorities were happy to arrest and convict two Thai fishermen. No doubt Burmese fishermen would have been preferable but Thai fishermen are only a couple of rungs up the ladder and are also of no consequence, as are Thai fire dancers..

Exactly the same points I made earlier, (which I bolded in your post), good job providing specific examples. If you look at other countries where justice is extremely unevenly applied (rather than just pretty unevenly lol), mainland China being a good one, you'll find many, many similar examples.

And not to overstate the point but I personally experienced this kind of atmosphere of impunity on KT more than any other place I've been, not just in Thailand, but anywhere, and this with locals much lower down on the totem pole, so I can just imagine how it would be getting in the sights of the higher-ups.

I am sure the sense of impunity is very elevated amongst the influential families in all the Samui islands. MikeENZ pointed drew attention to the prevalence of these people carrying handguns around and pulling them out to intimidate people and even shoot them on occasion. Some of these guns may be legally owned by some one but most are unlikely to have Por 12 carry permits for them, as these have become extremely difficult to obtain for civilians. They obviously expect to be able to carry the guns illegally and use them with impunity.

[stephenterry]

If the 2 accused did these murders and they get off it will be purely because of police incompetence.

more likely the b2 are innocent and the police are incompetent

[Chetzee]

don't you find it just a bit weird that now with the court is in session , and this forum is alive and kicking , that a good % of the chat is about a young man who could not possibly have had anything to do with this case .

after all he wasn't on the island , and his DNA didn't match up anyway ........ but yet the usual suspect choose to keep protesting his innocence .

As someone stated yesterday i suspect they " doth protest too much "

so well done all you guys and the police too for bringing your Fresh Milk right back into the lime light ! Brilliant .

You might have been better to let sleeping dogs lie , rather than keep slinging that mud , coz it looks like some of it has stuck again on your man .

How do you know his dna didnt match. Because police say so? Trying to match his dna by testing on things the police said in court no longer exist?

Quite the Houdini act to do that

oh , don't confuse me with someone that thinks FM is anything but up to his neck in this .

I was just suggesting that the usual suspects might have done better ( Ali , JTJ, balo et al ) just to have let things lie as they were ,rather than jump to his defence again . After all it's not him standing trial is it !

[StealthEnergiser]

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed as well as the replies:

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[Dogmatix]

If the 2 accused did these murders and they get off it will be purely because of police incompetence.

Equally, if others committed the rape and murders and are never prosecuted, it will be because of police incompetence/corruption.

[newcomer71]

https://twitter.com/pakhead/status/624167213008818176

The more trial is advancing, the more RTP incomeptence (or worse?) is getting under spotlight...

Words fail me.

Edited July 23, 2015 by newcomer71

[Linky]

https://twitter.com/pakhead/status/624167213008818176'>

So the police lied, again, when they said it was used up.

Jeeez they are good ?

[stephenterry]

Things are getting s##tty for prosecution and RTP...

this statement should be rammed down the police General throat. Changed my mind. Rammed up his backside.

[StealthEnergiser]

Koh Tao murder trail: Lawyer claims police failed to check CCTV

The defence lawyer in the Koh Tao murder trial said police had not examined CCTV footage near where two Brits were killed in September.

BANGKOK: Thai police failed to check CCTV footage from the only pier on the island where a pair of British tourists were murdered last year, a lawyer for the two Myanmar nationals accused of the killings said Thursday (Jul 23).

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/koh-tao-murder-trail/2003156.html?cid=twt

Edited July 23, 2015 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[boomerangutang]

Thought he had wound(s) to the back of the head.

From the diagram I saw, it looks like the top of his head, not the back.

More important, are the many stab wounds, most are to the right side of his neck. RTP claims they're from a blunt cement-encrusted hoe. That's ridiculous. Brit forensics should shed light on all of David's wounds, but waiting for Brit forensics is like waiting for Boy George to be declared next Pope by the Vatican.

Also photos from the reenactment show him being struck again while laying in his back.

How can you ascertain that? Because he was lying on his back when forensics arrived? He was moved away from the surf prior.

I don't remember the wounds he had but thought very early on it was the back of his head but may have been the top ... same difference in terms of being struck from behind especially when you are talking about a hoe with a curved end. (if you suspect the hoe was not the weapon then fine, that subject has already been speculated beyond any point)

I said reenactment photo ... the one were one of the defendant is standing above one of the people pretending to be the victim lying on his back and the defendant holding a representation of the weapon, what I believe was a dust pan on stick in the photo, appearing to simulate a blow to the head.

It actually doesn't concern me as being all that relevant in terms of prosecutors being able to give an exact detail of how things went down (they were not there). Unless they are sure and can prove the exact sequence of events on the beach it would be stupid to present a scenario when another scenario is just as plausible This case is going to come down to DNA and all the other evidence will fall inline from there.

In response to the part of your opinion above, enlarged font, here's why I see it as having relevance:

>>> If it's shown that most of David's wounds were caused by stubby stabbing implements, like a weaponized ring, then it not only indicates Thai forensics mis-read the wounds, but it also points to the Headman's people. As you and many of us already know, at least two of the H's people have been photographed, prior to crime, proudly showcasing their weaponized rings. the most popular, among bar workers at KT, seem to be large sharks tooth rings. There are other similar types of weapons which could have inflicted David's wounds, a fist-held stubby blade or a stubby knife which a fisherman would have (for opening shellfish). D's stab wounds were not caused by the blunt hoe, and I predict expert testimony will bear me out on that. P.S. no such weapons were found associated with the scapegoats.

[JLCrab]

Things are getting s##tty for prosecution and RTP...

this statement should be rammed down the police General throat. Changed my mind. Rammed up his backside.

Per American baseball legend Yogi Berra: It got late, early.

[scorecard]

MikeENZ, who apparently provided some insights about life on KT and KP for the TIME Magazine "The Sceptic Isle" story casts doubt on the possibility that the son of an influential figure on the sceptic island could have committed or been involved in the rape and murders because he would have had too much too lose.

Personally I have no idea who committed the crimes and don't wish to point the finger of suspicion at anyone in particular. However, I would like to point out that MikeENZ's theory is inconsistent with the observed behaviour of the sons of wealthy and influential figures in Thailand. Without naming names or citing dates, I list from memory some incidents I recall over the years in Thailand.

- The son of an influential politician was alleged to have shot a policeman in the head at point blank range in a disco over an argument about someone stepping on his toe. No conviction.

- The son of a gangster associated with gambling dens in Bangkok shot the nephew of a Thai diplomat in the face non-fatally in a disco in Bangkok after the victim allegedly stepped on his toe. No prosecution.

- The son of an influential politician became irate when a pick-up truck cut in front of him on a Bangkok street. The pick-up truck was pulled over by bodyguards travelling in another car and the driver was beaten. The politician's son walked towards him and fired a shot that missed. Then he pointed the gun right at his head and pulled the trigger but it failed to fire. No prosecution.

- The son of an influential politician was pulled over by a traffic cop on Pattanakarn Road in Bangkok for a minor violation and got irate when the cop refused to let him go without booking him. So he pulled out his gun and shot the cop in the face non-fatally. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of an influential politician abducted a police sergeant over an unknown dispute and incarcerated him for 2 or 3 days. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of a billionaire who sells cafeinated sugar water to gullible fools all over the world ran over a police sergeant and dragged him on the car's bonnet for 220 metres before tipping him on the road, ensuring death, if it had not already occurred. Then he attempted to get a family servant to claim responsibility for the crime in his place. He was charged but there has been no attempt to bring him to court and almost certainly the case will be allowed expire under Thailand's ridiculous statute of limitations.

- The son of an influential Isaan politician became irate when he was travelling in was overtaken by a pick-up truck on an isolated country road. He speeded up and overtook the pick-up so that he and at least one of his buddies could fire into the pick-up repeatedly with their illegally carried handguns but missed him completely. The pick-up truck owner, a building contractor, was ready for them and returned fire with his own illegal handgun, killing the politician's son instantly. LOL. The pick-up truck owner was prosecuted.

I could go on but I think this pattern illustrates something in the Thai psyche that MikeENZ obviously failed to learn during his brief stint in Thailand as an illegal worker in tourist resorts. Sons of wealthy and influential people are brought up with a sense of entitlement and impunity which makes them believe they can and have and do whatever they want and never have to face any consequences because Daddy will fix any problems that result. The above list indicates that they are often right. This makes their reflexes different from most less privileged people in Thailand or people living in rule of law jurisdictions, who are more likely to stop short at a point where they should be able to see a possibility of spending many years in prison. Since they don't feel they will have to face the consequences of their actions, they don't see any need to control their flashpoints and, in a country where face is so important, this can lead to some ugly situations. Some of these spoiled brats think nothing of killing some one who accidentally steps on their toe. You can imagine how they would feel if they have been slighted sexually and lost face in front of their buddies and servants.

Another point has been raised by other posters, i.e. why would police go to so much trouble and why would the case be escalated to such a high level to protect a fire dancing drifter, even if he was Thai. In the case of the Katherine Horton murder in Samui, the authorities were happy to arrest and convict two Thai fishermen. No doubt Burmese fishermen would have been preferable but Thai fishermen are only a couple of rungs up the ladder and are also of no consequence, as are Thai fire dancers..

agree completly ! i suspect somebody (one of those disgusting RTP defenders here ? ) impersonate for MikeENZ..... identity spoofing then... crime on TV ????

No, I can confirm that is the real MikENZ. It was just his opinion, which we can agree or disagree with. As I said before I don't believe the fire dancer scenario, but he is making his point from an honest conviction and from what I know of him he is an intelligent guy and is equally passionate about miscarriages of justice and social issues in his home and adoptive countries.

Point taken, but also please remember that anybody (99% of the population of any country) may well have good ethics but when it comes down to putting up your hand 'I DID IT' or protecting yourself or close friends etc.,from mafia intimidation etc., then most us will go for self preservation. Just human reaction given these circumstances.

[docshock13]

The more trial is advancing, the more RTP incomeptence (or worse?) is getting under spotlight...

Words fail me.

I wait with eager anticipation for Gen. Somyot to spin this : a) the forensics expert doesn't know what she is talking about, (b- foreign journalists "misunderstood" what was said not because they didn't have translators but they just do not understand "the Thai way," c) said forensics expert is hastily promoted to never never land with Gen. Mamen and never heard from again or d) all of the above.

Edited July 23, 2015 by docshock13

[Basil B]

If the 2 accused did these murders and they get off it will be purely because of police incompetence.

more likely the b2 are innocent and the police are incompetent

The other crime is probably no one will be found guilty due to police incompetence.

I like the Nation's cartoon...

[AleG]

So the police lied, again, when they said it was used up.

Jeeez they are good ?

How does that contradict this?:

"Meanwhile, national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompunmuang dismissed reports that the DNA evidence in the case could not be re-tested as some of it had either been "used up" or lost.

He said this "miscommunication" may have resulted from a misinterpretation of the police investigator's remark.

On Thursday, BBC News reported on its website that crucial DNA evidence in the case could not be re-tested because it no longer exists. It quoted Pol Lt-Colonel Somsak Noorod, who led the original investigation, as saying that some of the original DNA samples had been "used up", while the hair sample found in Witheridge's hand was among samples that was lost."

So now, after a hundred pages of gnashing of teeth it turns out that, indeed, things were misreported.

It was fairly clear to me that the original statements referred to some of the evidence gathered at the crime scene only and not referencing samples taken during the post-mortem at all.

Of course some people, again, jumped to conclusions and embraced the "All DNA evidence is lost" meme wholeheartedly.

[boomerangutang]

Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

RTP purposefully DID NOT release toxicology reports right after the crime, when they should have. Their soggy reason: it might upset the victims' families, which to me, is BS. The victims' families were already devastated upon hearing of the demise of their lovely offspring, why would hearing toxicology reports upset them further?

Why should they have released the toxicology reports publicly prior to an arrest let alone a trial? Absolutely ZERO public good it would serve and being considerate of the families, who have since made clear they are already troubled by all the idiotic theories online, is a valid reasons.

These murders are not about you or anyone else on this forum and certainly the police and people involved in the actual investigation are not hear to serve the twisted need for some people to play detective online. This case will be decided in the courts and what you, I or anyone else thinks about that is meaningless. The family has expressed confidence in the investigation and the court and they are not only in a much better position to know more about the case and evidence but are the only ones whose interests and motivations to be part of this in this case/crime is above suspicion.

"These murders are not about you or anyone else on this forum blah, blah, blah"

I'm a UK taxpayer. My taxes are collected by the UK Inland Revenue for the UK Treasury. The UK government decides how this revenue is spent. It just so happens that UK police came to Thailand, at UK taxpayers' expense because of the UK Prime Minister's concern about the 'handling' of the KT murder investigation by the Thai Police. It may not be to your liking or that of your miniscule band of Thai Police apologists, but it is a FACT that I and others like me have an 'interest' in this so called trial, Also, might I remind you that as the victims were British, people like me want to see a fair, balanced and transparent trial, which is something we are still waiting for.

Hear hear! (or is it 'here here'?). Not only is the RTP shenanigans (an Irish word?) wasting tons of peoples' time and money - mainly because they're barking up the wrong tree .....but the RTP is also enabling the really bad guys to continue to roam around freely (on the island or elsewhere). Your sons and daughters are not safe, as long as RTP continue this poorly executed framing of scapegoats. Who will be next?