Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Chicken George]

That would be the end of the case in any other straight justice system.

[catsanddogs]

1 piece of hair or many and where it was found it depends what newspaper you read .

He had recently dyed his hair black when originally his hair was dyed blond.

Some blond strands of human hair were found at the scene and were kept as evidence. Police are awaiting DNA test results to confirm their case.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/three-migrant-workers-confess-rape-murder-british-tourists

Region 8 Police Commander Panya Mamen told PhuketWan: ‘David Miller’s luggage contains a pair of bloodstained pants, which adds to the mystery.

‘There was also blonde hair on a mobile telephone police have now located.’

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/briton-christopher-ware-called-back-to-koh-tao-by-thai-police.html

Blonde hairs found in victim's hand

Investigators say blonde hairs were discovered in Hannah Witheridge's right hand.

These are now being tested for DNA as police probe whether they could have belonged to the killer.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/british-backpackers-thailand-murders-recap-4272933

Forensics experts in Bangkok said they found, and are now DNA-testing, blonde hairs in Witheridge's right hand. Police also found a pair of Ware's blood-stained pants from in Miller's luggage and an Apple iPhone with long blonde hairs snagged on it. - See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/autopsy-points-to-sex-struggle-in-koh-tao-murders-48760.php#sthash.KXmjqBUQ.dpuf

The police chief said that fragments of hair belonging to a foreigner had been found by Bangkok forensics experts, in the hand of Ms Witheridge, 23, who was murdered on Monday morning, along with Mr Miller, 24. Mr Ware has blonde hair and Mr Miller had brown hair.

He did not explain how the police knew that the hair was from a foreigner, and from the potential killer, rather than from Mr Miller or one of Ms Witheridge’s other companions. Since the bodies were discovered on a rocky beach, questions have arisen about the competence of the police.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/thai-police-question-british-man-christopher-alan-ware-over-british-tourist-murders-on-koh-tao/story-fnizu68q-1227061922322

I'm recalling the reports last year by the RTP that a woman may have been involved in the crime. They also stated they had cctv of a foreign woman running around the time of the crimes. This was not made available to the public unlike other selected footage. Lots of women have blonde hair. Will the cctv footage that the media have seen over the last 10 months be used in court? Will the footage that the media not have been privy to so far be shown in court? So much could be clarified no doubt from cctv footage. Especially that from the AC and In Touch bar.

[catsanddogs]

I didn't think there was any DNA evidence to retest, we are told it is lost.

The "less important" DNA eg. from the cigarette butt is used up or maybe lost. The more important DNA is supposedly safe in Bangkok.

The red L&M cigarette butt or butts was the reason for the police to knock on the B2's door as they were supposed to have bought L&M red that evening. I'd say they are quite important pieces of evidence.

What about all the other people on Koh Tao that were smoking that brand then? All the others that would have gone into the convenience store to buy those fags that evening and morning? Did the RTP seek them all out?

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[thailandchilli]

Not sure what how much use it will be retesting the hoe as the RTP had already said it contained no DNA of David. At the same time saying it was used to kill him.......o my god give me strength.

And of course we now have the issue of where it had been stored before being wheeled into the court in a shopping trolley!

[catsanddogs]

I love how the Chief throws in a last minute curve ball to make the comedy even more amusing.

it's not a comedy for the b2.

Or the families of the victims. Why bother posting?

[stephenterry]

Well, there you are. Words cannot begin to describe the loathing I have. A complete and utter travesty of any concept of truth and justice. I have run out of expletives. I hope the perps rot in internal damnation, and those that covered up for them suffer the same.

Hung, drawn, and quartered seems appropriate.

[minikev]

Those rejoicing that Porntip is a defense witness should be very cautious.

The generals gave her her job back, she was a vociferous supporter of the coup, and the political movement behind the coup, and she is connected to the current junta by a web of patronage. This doesn't require a big conspiracy theory. A single phone call saying " We are very glad we reappointed you to your old job Khun Pornthip. Are you enjoying it? Oh Good! I hope this Kho Tao case does not turn out to be embarrassing for Thailand, don't you? Good. I thought not."

It doesn't take much.

She has demonstrated already that she will deny the principles of basic science if given a pressing outside reason. I do not believe someone with a Ph.D in forensic science, requiring a thorough grounding in basic physics and chemistry, genuinely believes an empty box is a bomb detector, working on a principle as yet unknown to basic physics and chemistry. She is not a technologically ignorant general.

So this is not a matter of differing fields of expertise, but a matter of honesty, of trustworthiness.

Calling her as a defense witness may backfire hugely. The only statement I have read from her on this case was one casting doubt (completely incorrectly and inappropriately) on the whole concept of retesting the DNA, by implying the samples may not be retestable, and that retesting is rarely done.

In all forensic labs the first directive is to divide your sample and store portions in a permanent and stable manner, in reserve, in case retesting becomes necessary for whatever reason. Since the samples were sent to the Forensic Institute in Bangkok, they presumably know how to store DNA stably, in freezers, indefinitely. This is standard. There is no chance that the DNA will not be retestable if stored as every DNA lab in the world stores DNA.

Moreover the innocence project in the US tests DNA from evidence samples collected many decades ago, before DNA fingerprinting existed, and is often successful, even on incorrectly collected and stored samples. So there would be no valid scientific reason not to try a retest even on a degraded sample.

Why is Pornthip reported as casting doubt on the whole concept? Hopefully this is merely a result of the inaccurate reporting that makes all attention to anything said ouside the court room a waste of time...She must know as head of the Forensics institute that properly stored DNA lasts indefinitely, and she must know as Head, that her Institute stores DNA correctly.

I hope you are wrong.

[StealthEnergiser]

Not sure what how much use it will be retesting the hoe as the RTP had already said it contained no DNA of David. At the same time saying it was used to kill him.......o my god give me strength.

And of course we now have the issue of where it had been stored before being wheeled into the court in a shopping trolley!

this below was in the other paper yesterday and the hoe wasn't mentioned

Pol Lt Jakkrapan said he saw a body later identified as Miller's at the water's edge at Sai Ree beach in front of the King Chulalongkorn statue, so he decided to move him to higher ground.

About five metres away, behind some rocks, lay a female body, later identified as Witheridge.

The woman's skirt was pulled up to her waist, Pol Lt Jakkrapan told the three-member panel of judges. Bloodstains and human flesh was spotted on the rocks.

He believed the areas where he saw flecks of blood on the sand were likely to be where Miller was assaulted.

He found a metal part of a shovel, a wooden stick, and three cigarette butts about 60m north of Witheridge.

A used condom, grey pants with a belt, a pair of canvas shoes, and a pair of pink sandals were piled neatly nearby.

The scenario backed police reports that the two might have had sexual intercourse before they were attacked and the woman might have been raped by one or more people afterwards.

[stephenterry]

I love how the Chief throws in a last minute curve ball to make the comedy even more amusing.

it's not a comedy for the b2.

Or the families of the victims. Why bother posting?

Because it's not a comedy. Two families are suffering, and two more will be also when the B2 are convicted.

[catsanddogs]

Delayed now for a few more weeks so the RTP can get their excuses evidence fit up straight.

Probably why the trial was scheduled as it is. Prosecution knew they would need big gaps between hearings right from the start. Let's hope someone cracks soon.

[boomerangutang]

Let us ALSO not forget that a week ago the

Head Surat Thani Prosecutor was murdered in his home.

The person with the most knowledge of the evidence and it's provenance died with his throat slashed, sitting in a chair in his home.

Ostensibly a robbery gone wrong, but oh so convenient for this case, if you want to direct a verdict based on fear and intimidation on all levels... Not just scaring off of a translator....

But that (unrelated though it is) doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theorists and would only benefit the 2 Burmese defendants....

Sorry, I'm confused! "doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theorists" ???

JDinasia's throws out 'conspiracy theorist' when he's/she's flummoxed, and can't think of anything else to say.

If looking for a conspiracy, look no further than a couple of RTP top brass and perhaps Mon and a few others in there with them. They thought they could stitch up a plausible scenario - which would nail the scapegoats. More importantly, divert attention away from the origianal two prime suspects. But now their mean-spirited ruse is unraveling - in front of the world.

As for the prosecutor who was recently murdered: I'll re-state my prior questions, in the hope someone can answer them: Was he involved with this case? And if so, did he indicate any wavering from the required company line? If so, we'll never know, because nefarious people have devious means of killing people. At those islands, it seems common for people to get away with murder, literally.

[stephenterry]

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy/status/619508593289617408

It's enough to make you spit. <deleted> is all this procrastination about whether or not CRITICAL DNA can be retested? Beggars belief.

[catsanddogs]

A picture is worth what?

Remember this press conference?

1414785018021_wps_24_Bangkok_Thailand_30th_Oct.jpg

Now ask yourself how the head man of a pissant little island gets the top cop of the entire country to sit beside him for an announcement that his son's (long refused) DNA test has come back negative.

You really think DNA (or any other "evidence" for that matter) has any relevance here?

With reference to the post earlier of No 9 shaking hands with David Miller - Nomsod in this picture really reminds me of No 9. Wonder what happened to that No 9 top? The images of running man - the man was wearing no top. Oh but Mon said that was him so I'll trust him to be telling the truth.

[thailandchilli]

Not sure what how much use it will be retesting the hoe as the RTP had already said it contained no DNA of David. At the same time saying it was used to kill him.......o my god give me strength.

And of course we now have the issue of where it had been stored before being wheeled into the court in a shopping trolley!

this below was in the other paper yesterday and the hoe wasn't mentioned

Pol Lt Jakkrapan said he saw a body later identified as Miller's at the water's edge at Sai Ree beach in front of the King Chulalongkorn statue, so he decided to move him to higher ground.

About five metres away, behind some rocks, lay a female body, later identified as Witheridge.

The woman's skirt was pulled up to her waist, Pol Lt Jakkrapan told the three-member panel of judges. Bloodstains and human flesh was spotted on the rocks.

He believed the areas where he saw flecks of blood on the sand were likely to be where Miller was assaulted.

He found a metal part of a shovel, a wooden stick, and three cigarette butts about 60m north of Witheridge.

A used condom, grey pants with a belt, a pair of canvas shoes, and a pair of pink sandals were piled neatly nearby.

The scenario backed police reports that the two might have had sexual intercourse before they were attacked and the woman might have been raped by one or more people afterwards.

The location of where the hoe was found or how it got there is now very suspect with the prosecution prime witness who apparently owned the hoe and was also the cleaner who found the bodies saying one thing and the RTP saying another.

He said when he saw the hoe on the morning of finding the bodies it was in the same place he left it the night before. The RTP version was that he brought it back to the resort where he worked and was told to put gloves on and bring it back after wiping blood off.

So all now is highly dubious. As another poster also mentioned, Davids t shirt which was supposedly found at the scene is not mentioned in this report above and the photo we do have of it is of a shirt that looks like its been cleaned and pressed!

[stephenterry]

A picture is worth what?

Remember this press conference?

1414785018021_wps_24_Bangkok_Thailand_30th_Oct.jpg

Now ask yourself how the head man of a pissant little island gets the top cop of the entire country to sit beside him for an announcement that his son's (long refused) DNA test has come back negative.

You really think DNA (or any other "evidence" for that matter) has any relevance here?

Well said, brother.

Maybe a lot of money changed hands. It would be churlish to refuse an invitation, wouldn't it?

[boomerangutang]

So whatever the reason no tests possible, so where does that leave a case that was clinging to this vital evidence

With a shopping trolley full of holes.

Perhaps we should send the coroner a donation of an empty sterilized beaker with a cork stopper, along with a white sticker and marker pen, with which to write what's in the beaker. Oh, and a handbook on basic gathering-of-evidence protocol at a crime scene. Can't send a little fridge, sorry. Too heavy for the postal service.

[catsanddogs]

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy/status/619508593289617408

It's enough to make you spit. <deleted> is all this procrastination about whether or not CRITICAL DNA can be retested? Beggars belief.

Doesn't put the judges in a good light. One would hope one could at least have faith in a judge.

[thailandchilli]

This was what supposedly was found at the crime scene after it had been invaded by locals

[boomerangutang]

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy/status/619508593289617408

It's enough to make you spit. <deleted> is all this procrastination about whether or not CRITICAL DNA can be retested? Beggars belief.

It doesn't beggar belief for a person apprised of how fixated Thai officialdom is on obfuscating/destroying/disregarding evidence in order to do two things:

>>> get a conviction, but more important......

>>> keep shielding the Headman's family and friends from any legal scrutiny.

[bamukloy]

Did anyone watch Prayuths address tonight?

Towards the end he mentioned the justice system and said something about improovements in the field of collecting evidence.

[Lorn]

Let us ALSO not forget that a week ago the

Head Surat Thani Prosecutor was murdered in his home.

The person with the most knowledge of the evidence and it's provenance died with his throat slashed, sitting in a chair in his home.

Ostensibly a robbery gone wrong, but oh so convenient for this case, if you want to direct a verdict based on fear and intimidation on all levels... Not just scaring off of a translator....

But that (unrelated though it is) doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theorists and would only benefit the 2 Burmese defendants....

Sorry, I'm confused! "doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theorists" ???

JDinasia's throws out 'conspiracy theorist' when he's/she's flummoxed, and can't think of anything else to say.

If looking for a conspiracy, look no further than a couple of RTP top brass and perhaps Mon and a few others in there with them. They thought they could stitch up a plausible scenario - which would nail the scapegoats. More importantly, divert attention away from the origianal two prime suspects. But now their mean-spirited ruse is unraveling - in front of the world.

As for the prosecutor who was recently murdered: I'll re-state my prior questions, in the hope someone can answer them: Was he involved with this case? And if so, did he indicate any wavering from the required company line? If so, we'll never know, because nefarious people have devious means of killing people. At those islands, it seems common for people to get away with murder, literally.

http://news.thaivisa.com/thailand/killing-surat-thani-prosecutor-man-confesses-to-murder/103840/ Niwat surrendered to police and allegedly confessed that he killed Phayong after learning that the prosecutor, with whom he allegedly had been having a sexual relationship for eight years, was seeing another man.

[thailandchilli]

He found a metal part of a shovel, a wooden stick, and three cigarette butts about 60m north of Witheridge.

A used condom, grey pants with a belt, a pair of canvas shoes, and a pair of pink sandals were piled neatly nearby.

What, was he dreaming when he said this, piled neatly nearby...............

[StealthEnergiser]

This was what supposedly was found at the crime scene after it had been invaded by locals

this was hoe story

police on Koh Tao tried to persuade a witness at the Witheridge-Miller crime scene into saying that he had wiped blood off an alleged murder weapon, according to Aung Myo Thant, a lawyer for the defence team.

Speaking to DVB on Thursday evening, the lawyer said the court heard testimony from a Burmese migrant named U Oh, who was a garbage collector on Sairee Beach during the period in September 2014 when British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were murdered.

“U Oh confirmed he was the owner of the garden hoe, which is alleged to have been used as the murder weapon in the case,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer had earlier testified that the hoe was used to murder the victims, then the blood-stained tool was placed under a bag and discarded on the beach.”

But U Oh testified that the hoe was in the same place he left it the night before, the lawyer said.

“Also, police cajoled him to say he washed off the blood from the hoe. However, that is not what he told the judge. He said that he had not paid any attention to the hoe and was not aware of whether there was any blood on it or not.”

https://www.dvb.no/news/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/54664

[stephenterry]

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy/status/619508593289617408

It's enough to make you spit. <deleted> is all this procrastination about whether or not CRITICAL DNA can be retested? Beggars belief.

Doesn't put the judges in a good light. One would hope one could at least have faith in a judge.

Well, by the time the court reassembles on the 22nd, perhaps this evidence would have been finished or lost, also. I really don't want to put my head above the parapet because of the draconian defamation laws here, but I smell a rat and collusion - which is pure conjecture on my part.

[catsanddogs]

He found a metal part of a shovel, a wooden stick, and three cigarette butts about 60m north of Witheridge.

A used condom, grey pants with a belt, a pair of canvas shoes, and a pair of pink sandals were piled neatly nearby.

What, was he dreaming when he said this, piled neatly nearby...............

The defence needs to find out who precisely put the items in a pile. Have the RTP also lost the photos that were published in the media? Hope they all have many pairs of spare pants cos they are going to be needing them.

[StealthEnergiser]

He found a metal part of a shovel, a wooden stick, and three cigarette butts about 60m north of Witheridge.

A used condom, grey pants with a belt, a pair of canvas shoes, and a pair of pink sandals were piled neatly nearby.

What, was he dreaming when he said this, piled neatly nearby...............

it seems that these photo's got out before the scene was re arranged .

[catsanddogs]

He found a metal part of a shovel, a wooden stick, and three cigarette butts about 60m north of Witheridge.

A used condom, grey pants with a belt, a pair of canvas shoes, and a pair of pink sandals were piled neatly nearby.

What, was he dreaming when he said this, piled neatly nearby...............

it seems that these photo's got out before the scene was re arranged .

It's all becoming a little clearer now. I maybe understand now why it took the police so long to arrive after the call was made to them.