State Of Emergency In Thailand

[fruittbatt]

Although I am no fan of Thaksin why is everyone behaving like the heavens have opened and some divine light has shone on the military leaders?. Of course Thaksin is corrupt, but corruption runs deeply through every aspect of Thai soceity, most Thais are corrupt by nature!.

Why does anyone think that this new military regime will be any less corrupt than TRT?. This military regime is here to stay unless there is a counter coup. Of course the military will mask the new regime with various puppet officials who are just mouthpieces, but mark my words, your looking at a dictatorship for at least a year.

The military said they have seized power 'temporarily', an ambiguous term to say the least. However in my opinion temporarily does not mean until October 2007.

Firstly: It is deeply offensive to our hosts and completely untrue to claim that "most Thais are corrupt by nature". Such a statement makes about as much sense as saying "most Americans are warmongers" just because their army invades another country.

Whilst there is no doubt that military rule under the monarchy will experience many problems peculiar to governance, your generalist suppositions about this one-day old regime have no basis bar your own prejudices...why don't we wait and see before leaping to worst-case scenarios?

Edited September 20, 2006 by fruittbatt

[chinadarling]

looks like CNN and BBC (on UBC) are cut. all other channels are okay though ...

Funny, for someone who lives in china this is normal....hehe

[salween]

I wonder what they'll find now when they start searching the TRT headquarters. Computers and filing cabinets full of Thaksin's "plans" for Thailand.

With Thaksin out of the picture, watch and see how many will come out, now unafraid to speak. Expect many books exposing how TRT really worked.

Not only the headquarter. Military men already carting boxes and boxes of documents from his residence in charan sanitwong since this morning. Let’s wait and see what turn out for everybody to see.

Although I am no fan of Thaksin why is everyone behaving like the heavens have opened and some divine light has shone on the military leaders?. Of course Thaksin is corrupt, but corruption runs deeply through every aspect of Thai soceity, most Thais are corrupt by nature!.

Why does anyone think that this new military regime will be any less corrupt than TRT?. This military regime is here to stay unless there is a counter coup. Of course the military will mask the new regime with various puppet officials who are just mouthpieces, but mark my words, your looking at a dictatorship for at least a year.

The military said they have seized power 'temporarily', an ambiguous term to say the least. However in my opinion temporarily does not mean until October 2007.

I too was taken aback by this, as things seemed ready to go for the next round, why not just push the button. However, they’ve got some work they want to complete in advance of that one-year objective.

1) They intend to get another constitution in place. When you take that into consideration, they will in fact be on the same schedule (constitution then general election) as what was already in the works. The government that was to be elected in November was itself supposed to be interim and put that constitution together then hold elections in about a year’s time—right around next October.

2) If they are as serious as they say they are in the 5th directive about trying to clean house a bit as regards to vote buying, etc. they can’t do it in a few months on top of everything else. While I have my doubts about how successful they might be at this, one thing’s for sure, they will have a better chance of a cleaner election if they take more time.

[Sunderland]

Mmmmmmmm ... the coup was unexpected in many quarters, but it's been blown way out of proportion by the foreign media. Very lazy journalism and relying on accounts from hysterical expats and tourists.

I know there are soldiers on the streets and we would all feel happier if they weren't there, but it's pretty obvious what is going on.

Banks, schools and government offices to open again tomorrow for business as usual.

Calm yourselves down with a nice cup of tea and don't fret. You're not going to die. You have more chance of being shot with a dart in a go-go bar ... for which you get no sympathy.

Edited September 20, 2006 by astral

[Michael W]

It is deeply offensive to our hosts and completely untrue to claim that "most Thais are corrupt by nature".

Corruption is very much a consequence of Thailand being a "society of relationships" rather than a society of laws, at least in the view of the excerpt below:

4.2. Flexibility and Corruption

Since the Thai are not principle oriented, and with the high value for personal relationships, they also appear not to be strictly law-oriented. In practice, principles and laws are ever-adjustable to fit persons and situations. In other words, laws are rules laid out in papers; but what is wrong or right depends not on the rules, but instead on who the person is or whom the person knows. A prominent Thai businessman ironically described this phenomenon in a seminar:

We Thai are not a society of law; we are a society of relationship.... It is not what a person has done that's wrong; it's who he is.... If he is your cousin, or your friend, then what he has done is not wrong. But if another person does the same thing, and it's somebody you don't like, then what he has done is wrong...

This is the reason why law enforcement in Thailand hardly works. If it does, it is selectively enforced on those who are either nobody or do not know anybody, or who have no money to ease their wrong-doings or buy their way out of problems. As a society of relationship, it is easy and common for an officer, upon request from even friends of friends, to pull out, cross out or destroy a traffic citation issued. For the sake of a smooth relationship, officers would overlook, turn a blind eye, or keep silent. The point here is that, while the basic Thai value system should not be blamed as the major factor for corruption, it definitely does not help to inhibit corruption either.

In general, this characteristic "Flexibility and Adjustment" value orientation has perhaps accounted for varieties of behavioral patterns, ranging from the facilitation of ethnic assimilation process, to the tendency of being corruption prone. In addition, it provides a deeper understanding to the various existing interpretations of the Thai being "unpredictable", "non-committing", "irresponsible" or even "selfish" and "opportunistic", by foreigners.

Taken from a rather long but I think worthwhile article entitled: The Thai National Character

[Lacoste]

....Sorry, being raised and live in a western country I see the democracy as the highest goal for a rule and no matter how corrupt he may be it must always be sorted out within the constraints of the constitution.

Military coup is never a way out.

I understand your point of view, Thomas, but I waste too much time on other web forums arguing with people who worship democracy as their highest God, higher than Jesus or Buddha.

I do not believe in armed resistance to the powers that be, but I am in a smaller minority than those who worship democracy as a god. When a dictator like Thaksin lies and steals and buys votes and evades taxes and makes a mockery of democracy, there is no democracy; it's dead. The constitution was as alive as a dead maggot.

While I would never vote for a military coup, and much preferred the total non-violent protests of PAD, I can understand how the military leadership saw that the non-violence was ineffective. You can't blame the military for thinking they could do a better job than Thaksin did.

Democracy is too imperfect, especially in some countries, to be worshipped as a god.

Well put PB, its just ashame the media is being messed with so much here though.

I was watching BBC world today when an ajarn from chula came on and said they had always wanted him out of office but not in this way, no sooner had those words left her mouth the tv screen gets a message on saying 'will return to normal broadcast shortly' and music started playing.

Interview over and the news is back on.

[thaigene2]

Like Michael W's Thai Thesis explains - here in Thailand (a collective society by the way - not an individualist society like the West), relationships are paramount - above and beyond democracy and transparency. It's who you are or who you know - it's whether you are Poo Yai or just Pee.

It's often joked that at a party, the Thais figure out the social order of the room within just a few minutes.

They are more interested in wealth and power and who has it and who they should suck up to. That's why many Thais loved Thaksin - they didn't care whether he was corrupt. However, Thaksin p+ssed off many Bangkok civil servants who "used" to be 'somebody's' in favor of his big business crony-buddies. I must also admit that I'm also not sure whether Thailand will ever have a transparent 'good governance' style of administration. Mai pen rai..it's their country. For the moment I'm just happy to be a visitor - visa stuff and all.

[goatfarmer]

You obviously have a lot of time on your hands. If checking my spelling was the only contribution you could make to this thread.

Let's hear it for speling. So many iiterates hear. Bravo for the pedants!

[PuaSai]

Just because the system has problems is not a reason to throw it away. In a democracy you work to change the rules. And regarding your last question then I would say yes every western country has a pure democracy. We elect the persons that we believe would do the best for the country. When we get a government we don’t like we live with it. I cannot think of the alternative where I could not even vote for the persons or parties I think will do the best for the country and looking around the world I have no doubt that the democratic countries are generally better of then the ones without.

Pure Democracy... The last two elections in the states are tainted. The last election was you had to choose the lesser of two evils.. There was no choice. Yeah, you live with it but you have no choice. Then idiot that is in office destroys what the one before built up and then the next guy after him inherits the mess. There is nothing pure about democracy because there is also corruption and payoffs just like you describe with Thaskin. There is no "pure" anything when it comes to politics...

[mittheimp]

For democracy to be real you need freedom and independance of the media. Thaksin had managed to destroy this notion. In another years time other institutions of democracy may have been disolved - I believe Thakisin left the military with little choice!

[PuaSai]

Although I am no fan of Thaksin why is everyone behaving like the heavens have opened and some divine light has shone on the military leaders?. Of course Thaksin is corrupt, but corruption runs deeply through every aspect of Thai soceity, most Thais are corrupt by nature!.

I am deeply offended by the statement you made "most Thais are corrupt by nature". I see at least one other person was too. Racist remarks should not be allowed here. Corruption is everywhere and is not a characteristic of a whole nation or most of a nation. That was just irresponsible of you to say that.

[Johpa]

The coup would simply tell the world that Democracy in not suitable in Thailand.

History would repeat itself.

It is a big lot down for those students who fought for democracy to bring down

the military rule many many years ago.

History has repeat itself once again.

Watch and see...... A counter coup would come again.

It is a matter of time.

Thailand has never never learnt to know the real meaning of the word “ Democracy “.

Every time they don’t like the Government, the only word they know is the “ Coup “.

In conclusion, they are welcome to join the Pakistan and the Burma group of Nations.

Thailand is not ready for true democracy. Wake up Thailand!

Oh give me a break. This is democracy Thai style. As I noted yesterday, two hours into the coup, this is a very run-of-the-mill Thai coup playing out in very standard format. There are no surprises here. There will still be elections and political parties. People will still vote for local leaders. But even "democracy" needs some checks and balances.

In the US congress can impeach a standing president and probably do not do it often enough. In Thailand it is the army and other very interested and powerful interest groups that jointly intervene when things go beyond The Pale. And Taksin went well beyond the acceptable Pale, even by Thailand's low standards. Do not be naive enough to think that Sondhi's support is limited to the military alone.

All you relatively new ex-pats need to wake up and smell the roses and accept that Thailand is still very much a "democracy" with very powerful interest groups in ultimate control not that much different than the US, the UK, or any other western democratic nation. Clearly in the case of Taksin, the "democratically elected" government had long failed the Nation and was removed and now plans are being prepared for a new election sans Shinawat.

Be more concerned about the global failures and incompetancies of another democratically elected leader (GWB) and also be fearful of emerging democratically elected leaders in other areas of the world with an axe to grind.

Chaiyo!

[Siripon]

As has been said by many Thai commentators, time is needed to reform, tweak, the last constitution; and one of its glaring failures was the power it gave The Senate to select the candidates for the independent organisations checking the government.

If The Senate was strictly neutral, non-partisan, then fine; but as the recent one was dubbed as a House Of Relatives(of MPs, prominent figures, etc), its failings as an independent organisation were glaring. Prospective candidates couldn't even promote themselves, so how could an unknown Somchai stand a chance?

It's not enough to be able to monitor the candidates, the monitors need to be checked as well.

How to do this in a democracy where money talks?

ASTV, the PAD, several newspapers have been talking about this type of issue for months but this sort of talk was banned from mainstream TV.

Now the bogeyman has gone, we will hopefully see a flourishing of open, constructive debate and discussion on free Thai TV as happened before the dark years in the 1990s.

The present coup leaders have clearly showed with their public statements they are on the side of participatory democracy, I have every confidence this will occur.

[fruittbatt]

It is deeply offensive to our hosts and completely untrue to claim that "most Thais are corrupt by nature".

Corruption is very much a consequence of Thailand being a "society of relationships" rather than a society of laws, at least in the view of the excerpt below:

4.2. Flexibility and Corruption

Since the Thai are not principle oriented, and with the high value for personal relationships, they also appear not to be strictly law-oriented. In practice, principles and laws are ever-adjustable to fit persons and situations. In other words, laws are rules laid out in papers; but what is wrong or right depends not on the rules, but instead on who the person is or whom the person knows. A prominent Thai businessman ironically described this phenomenon in a seminar:

We Thai are not a society of law; we are a society of relationship.... It is not what a person has done that's wrong; it's who he is.... If he is your cousin, or your friend, then what he has done is not wrong. But if another person does the same thing, and it's somebody you don't like, then what he has done is wrong...

This is the reason why law enforcement in Thailand hardly works. If it does, it is selectively enforced on those who are either nobody or do not know anybody, or who have no money to ease their wrong-doings or buy their way out of problems. As a society of relationship, it is easy and common for an officer, upon request from even friends of friends, to pull out, cross out or destroy a traffic citation issued. For the sake of a smooth relationship, officers would overlook, turn a blind eye, or keep silent. The point here is that, while the basic Thai value system should not be blamed as the major factor for corruption, it definitely does not help to inhibit corruption either.

In general, this characteristic "Flexibility and Adjustment" value orientation has perhaps accounted for varieties of behavioral patterns, ranging from the facilitation of ethnic assimilation process, to the tendency of being corruption prone. In addition, it provides a deeper understanding to the various existing interpretations of the Thai being "unpredictable", "non-committing", "irresponsible" or even "selfish" and "opportunistic", by foreigners.

Taken from a rather long but I think worthwhile article entitled: The Thai National Character

If you believe in such utter twaddle as the existence of stereotypical "national characteristics" perhaps you are living in the wrong century, my friend. This is outdated anthropology-speak worthy of Margaret Mead in the early 20th century. It is also racist bullsh*t and contravenes rule 3 of ThaiVisa. I suggest you read "Imagined Communities" by Benedict Anderson (about the construction of nationalism among other matters) to bring you into the late 20th century at least.

[ThomasHOL]

Pure Democracy... The last two elections in the states are tainted. The last election was you had to choose the lesser of two evils.. There was no choice. Yeah, you live with it but you have no choice. Then idiot that is in office destroys what the one before built up and then the next guy after him inherits the mess. There is nothing pure about democracy because there is also corruption and payoffs just like you describe with Thaskin. There is no "pure" anything when it comes to politics...

First of all just because you don’t like the persons that ware up for election in the last election in USA doesn’t mean that it wasn’t free and fair. The way the American system is made might not be optimal from my point of view but it sure beats tanks in the streets. I personally prefer the European way where people vote for a party they like and the party then form alliances with other parties to gain a majority.

And let me once more make it clear what happened in Thailand is not a step up. It might be true that Thaksin should be removed from power but not the way it happened. Now we will just se another all powerful government making mistakes.

[bkkharry]

[And your solution is to let the military take control thinking that will make it better? Sorry being raised and live in a western country I see the democracy as the highest goal for a rule and no matter how corrupt he may be it must always be sorted out within the constraints of the constitution.

Military coup is newer a way out.

Thailand is not a western country, thank God.

The Thais have their own ways of dealing with matter and it does seem to work.

I am sure the Army will be very glad when a real democracy exists and they

do not have to step in.

IMHO Taksin would like nothing better to be a dictator.......

That will not happen.

Amen, I wish people would quite comparing Thailand to the West. This is Asia and they have their ways of doing things. Note I am from the west, Asia cultures just intrigue me, so different from the west. Some things I understand , many I don't, just makes me want to lean and understand more about the Asian cultures.

But glad Taksin is gone, its going to takes years for Thailand to recover from many of his hand out policies. Huge pricetag for the future generations of Thai's to have to pay.

[PuaSai]

The coup would simply tell the world that Democracy in not suitable in Thailand.

History would repeat itself.

It is a big lot down for those students who fought for democracy to bring down

the military rule many many years ago.

History has repeat itself once again.

Watch and see...... A counter coup would come again.

It is a matter of time.

Thailand has never never learnt to know the real meaning of the word “ Democracy “.

Every time they don’t like the Government, the only word they know is the “ Coup “.

In conclusion, they are welcome to join the Pakistan and the Burma group of Nations.

Thailand is not ready for true democracy. Wake up Thailand!

Oh give me a break. This is democracy Thai style. As I noted yesterday, two hours into the coup, this is a very run-of-the-mill Thai coup playing out in very standard format. There are no surprises here. There will still be elections and political parties. People will still vote for local leaders. But even "democracy" needs some checks and balances.

In the US congress can impeach a standing president and probably do not do it often enough. In Thailand it is the army and other very interested and powerful interest groups that jointly intervene when things go beyond The Pale. And Taksin went well beyond the acceptable Pale, even by Thailand's low standards. Do not be naive enough to think that Sondhi's support is limited to the military alone.

All you relatively new ex-pats need to wake up and smell the roses and accept that Thailand is still very much a "democracy" with very powerful interest groups in ultimate control not that much different than the US, the UK, or any other western democratic nation. Clearly in the case of Taksin, the "democratically elected" government had long failed the Nation and was removed and now plans are being prepared for a new election sans Shinawat.

Be more concerned about the global failures and incompetancies of another democratically elected leader (GWB) and also be fearful of emerging democratically elected leaders in other areas of the world with an axe to grind.

Chaiyo!

I agree with what you say very much. Every country has it own characteristics and uniqeness. Thats what attracts us to visit the place. If we were all the same, why leave home?

Democracy in the U.S. will be different from democracy elsewhere. If the day comes that democracy is totally accepted and utilized as a form of government here in Iraq it will, again, be different from the United States version andliving in Iraq won't be the same as living in the states. The people are unique to their homeland.. Thats just the way it is.

No one was hurt during this coup so why can't we look at that. I hope the end result is the Thai people will have a government they know works for all its people.

[Johpa]

If you believe in such utter twaddle as the existence of stereotypical "national characteristics" perhaps you are living in the wrong century, my friend. This is outdated anthropology-speak worthy of Margaret Mead in the early 20th century. It is also racist bullsh*t and contravenes rule 3 of ThaiVisa. I suggest you read "Imagined Communities" by Benedict Anderson (about the construction of nationalism among other matters) to bring you into the late 20th century at least.

I wholeheardtedly agree that Anderson's book is "must-read" for insight into the development of nation-states like Thailand. For one person's view of the Thai character I prefer Niels Muldar's orginal Everyday Life in Thailand than the previously cited online reference (although making stereotypes, I did not find it overtly racist), and Muldar's book was at one time the true bible for expats living in Thailand and trying to understand the culture and deal with Thai concepts of power. It saved my life some years ago when that life was threatened.

[Netfan]

Just flipping between CNN and BBC. everythine there is film of Thaksin the screen goes red. i guess they don't want his face onscreen.

[bubba]

Just flipping between CNN and BBC. everythine there is film of Thaksin the screen goes red. i guess they don't want his face onscreen.

Thaksin? He does not exist. He has never existed.

...To loosely paraphrase George Orwell.....

[PuaSai]

Pure Democracy... The last two elections in the states are tainted. The last election was you had to choose the lesser of two evils.. There was no choice. Yeah, you live with it but you have no choice. Then idiot that is in office destroys what the one before built up and then the next guy after him inherits the mess. There is nothing pure about democracy because there is also corruption and payoffs just like you describe with Thaskin. There is no "pure" anything when it comes to politics...

First of all just because you don’t like the persons that ware up for election in the last election in USA doesn’t mean that it wasn’t free and fair. The way the American system is made might not be optimal from my point of view but it sure beats tanks in the streets. I personally prefer the European way where people vote for a party they like and the party then form alliances with other parties to gain a majority.

And let me once more make it clear what happened in Thailand is not a step up. It might be true that Thaksin should be removed from power but not the way it happened. Now we will just se another all powerful government making mistakes.

In America, there are only two parties regardless of the illusion that is portrayed. The first time the current administration was elected was a sham... The world saw it. It then perpetuated into another 4 years of the same. "For the people, by the people" except the electoral college can take that popular vote away. I think that part of our election process is antiquated.

Thailand is not the 51st State of the U.S. It is its own nation and they have their own ways of doing things. Although it wasn't the way things are done in America, because payoffs, etc.. are our politicians "tanks" it was done without anyone being hurt. It may not be a "step up" for you, but you have no crystal ball that says this may not come as a great thing for all Thais. Everyone will be watching of course and I pray it helps the Thai people get the government they want. Again, I applaud the restraint by the military that no onewas hurt during this process.

If this new all powerful government makes mistakes, they will be just like every other governement on this planet, to include the States. Just the way it is. Nothing is "pure".

[fruittbatt]

I wholeheardtedly agree that Anderson's book is "must-read" for insight into the development of nation-states like Thailand. For one person's view of the Thai character I prefer Niels Muldar's orginal Everyday Life in Thailand than the previously cited online reference (although making stereotypes, I did not find it overtly racist), and Muldar's book was at one time the true bible for expats living in Thailand and trying to understand the culture and deal with Thai concepts of power. It saved my life some years ago when that life was threatened.

Thanks for the reference: sounds valuable in terms of physical & cultural survival! Notions of national "character" are racist by definition- whether overtly or latently: IMO.

Edited September 20, 2006 by fruittbatt

[ovenman]

Just flipping between CNN and BBC. everythine there is film of Thaksin the screen goes red. i guess they don't want his face onscreen.

Thaksin? He does not exist. He has never existed.

...To loosely paraphrase George Orwell.....

Perhaps they'll take a page from J.K. Rowling and start referring to him as You-Know-Who.

[taxexile]

fruitbatt

If you believe in such utter twaddle as the existence of stereotypical "national characteristics" perhaps you are living in the wrong century, my friend. This is outdated anthropology-speak worthy of Margaret Mead in the early 20th century. It is also racist bullsh*t and contravenes rule 3 of ThaiVisa.

then how do you account for the fact that thais think , believe and react differently to americans , who in turn think , believe and react differently to pakistanis , who in turn think , believe and react differently to ....etc.etc.etc.

why is it racist to suggest that those brought up in a rural thai village environment will have characteristics of behaviour and values and ways of dealing with things that differ from people brought up in inner city london.

they are called cultural differences. its not racist. its not derogatory. its fact.

we are not all the same on this planet , and when one group of people have to deal with or understand another group , it pays to study the national characteristics of that other group.

the article 'the thai national characteristics" is a well written thesis , that goes a long way to explaining why thais think , behave and react as they do , and why attributes that we think of as negative are seen as positive by thais and vice versa.

is it racist or unfashionably 20th century to describe the thais as "smiling" or the british as "reticent"

[Tony Clifton]

I wonder what they'll find now when they start searching the TRT headquarters. Computers and filing cabinets full of Thaksin's "plans" for Thailand.

With Thaksin out of the picture, watch and see how many will come out, now unafraid to speak. Expect many books exposing how TRT really worked.

Not only the headquarter. Military men already carting boxes and boxes of documents from his residence in charan sanitwong since this morning. Let’s wait and see what turn out for everybody to see.

Although I am no fan of Thaksin why is everyone behaving like the heavens have opened and some divine light has shone on the military leaders?. Of course Thaksin is corrupt, but corruption runs deeply through every aspect of Thai soceity, most Thais are corrupt by nature!.

Why does anyone think that this new military regime will be any less corrupt than TRT?. This military regime is here to stay unless there is a counter coup. Of course the military will mask the new regime with various puppet officials who are just mouthpieces, but mark my words, your looking at a dictatorship for at least a year.

The military said they have seized power 'temporarily', an ambiguous term to say the least. However in my opinion temporarily does not mean until October 2007.

Will you still be around to discuss why you were wrong?

[merlion]

Just flipping between CNN and BBC. everythine there is film of Thaksin the screen goes red. i guess they don't want his face onscreen.

Thaksin? He does not exist. He has never existed.

...To loosely paraphrase George Orwell.....

Perhaps they'll take a page from J.K. Rowling and start referring to him as You-Know-Who.

Thaksin's wife and kids are now safely in Singapore...

[ovenman]

Thaksin's wife and kids are now safely in Singapore...

On Orchard Road, shopping?

[taxexile]

fascinating analysis of the coup here

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/20/news/edbowring.php

international herald tribune.

dont think i agree with it.

Edited September 20, 2006 by taxexile

[ThomasHOL]

In America, there are only two parties regardless of the illusion that is portrayed. The first time the current administration was elected was a sham... The world saw it. It then perpetuated into another 4 years of the same. "For the people, by the people" except the electoral college can take that popular vote away. I think that part of our election process is antiquated.

Sorry you seem to think i am referring to the american way of electing and i’m not. I live in Denmark and here we have several parties to chose from and the process of electing are far better than in the states. The main problem in the states is that the one with the most money often win as they can buy TV time etc. Here we have laws garding that the media is not biast against any parties and make shure that all partyes get the same amount of TV time in an election.

I’m not saying that the Thai democracy was a perfect one but it is better than the alternative that is now. Because what will happen now is that Thailand must start over from square one on rebuilding a democracy instead of improving the current one.

[tomyummer]

In Singapore on the way to meet up in London. Tell the Mrs. to pick-up a book about running an efficient government and building a successful country while she's there in Singapore. Thailand is so close yet can't learn a thing from a prosperous island country with 40 years under its belt? With such resources Thailand has the potential to kick Singapore and Malaysia's asses!

Let's hope this next government does better. No more masking a corrupt government behind the word 'democracy'. It seems these days that the word is overused and abused.