State Of Emergency In Thailand

[sting01]

There will be a General Election . . . in Oct 2007

I find the prospect of an election in a years time rather daunting, as it will only help to prolong the current crises. Nearly a year and a half without a democratically elected government. Moreover this idea to tear up the constitution and put another in its place also bodes ill. For the simple reason that consitutions never really manage to establish their weight if they keep being replaced. What would perhaps be better is to have the existing one, amened, to for example limit the terms of the prime minister, and allow any Thai citizen to be elected to parliament, regardless of their educational status, this would help to reduce the Benz worshippers, as it would allow the people to choose from their own number. Thus the present consitution should be suspended and then amended.

As to what the woman was saying earlier, it was simply that she was glad to see the back of Toxic, but she would have preferred that it had not been done in the manner in which it was done!

With or without any restriction , a country is not rules by the grass roots. From WWII up to now, France had ONE(1) Prime who went from the working class (Bereguovoy), all the others were (and that is true from any political party , communist include) at lest middle class , often from hight ranking administration. Why? To repeat what a General Secretary of the French Communist Party said : Take any minister and ask him to work in a fabric without a proper formation, soon it will be the mess in the fabric. Same apply for a fabric worker positioned as minister. That's life.

The manner it was done? What's wrong with the manner?

Fact : Portugal was a close friend and a good ally of USA in the 60 and 70. Then the army took power on behalf of the people and kicked the lawfully dictator (lawfully because laws were made to allow him to be a legal dictator, those laws were made by a parliement ... Some stated at those time it was near to democracy). So what did the portugese army? Simply what they said they will do, they gived back the power to the people as soon as it was possible. Why not here? Why not simply admit the people who did this coup are genuily honest and simply took a painfull decision for the good of the thai public?

We can not judge now, only hystory will be able to give a judment ... later.

From my country one more time, there is another exemple : the actual Vth Republic. It was usual amongst the scholars from 1960 up to 1981 to consider it as a 'legal coup' or a 'permanent coup'. It was only the election of the left wing President who made/proove this constitution was in fact only a constitution, with flaws (as any other) but usable whatever political party/familly who is in charge.

The screaming for democraty often are simply smoke clouds to hide the reality : Chinese communist argue they are democratic, because even if there is only one party, their is inside 12 different tendencies with a broad range of various ideas/opinions. So the democratic discussion is made INSIDE and not OUTSIDE ... no comment, but yes they call it democraty and maybe that is for them. In USA a man can get 60% of the vote nation wide and be NOT elected as President, because the intermediaries electors (I apologise, I simply forget the legal name of those people, maybe Hight Electors?). Their is hystorical reasons (and positive reasons to that), but does it really tie with the definition one man = one vote (and what about the women in that case lol).

Or can we simply agree democratie is when people are under a benvolent regime who listen (or is bound to listen) to the basic citisens?

[Plus]

What is shows is that the coup was necessary as Thais can't govern themselves in a democratic manner. Too many of them are irresponsible voters and citizens. Not all, but too many.

It is a step back to where it belongs for democracy that should never have never been where it pretended to be.

I bet not many Thais are scratching their head now and aksing themselves - how could we end up like this? They don't care, they don't think they did anything wrong by voting for Thaskin three times, effectively endorising corruption. Those who opposed Thaksin might feel they let the country down, but they put up a good fight, pity it didn't work out their way.

[Jai Dee]

Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratkalin: took 2 days to decide whether to stage coup

Army commander-in-chief Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratkalin (สนธิ บุญยรัตกลิน) insists no one was behind the military’s decision to seize power from the Thaksin Shinawatra government.

At a press conference yesterday, Gen. Sonthi said the coup was meant to end disputes and disunity within society and solve the people’s problems reported in the media.

He said it took the military two days to decide whether to stage a coup. Gen. Sonthi, as head of the Administrative Reform Council, said a temporary constitution should be enforced in the next few weeks after which administrative reforms would be implemented and the process should be completed in one year.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 September 2006

[stumonster]

Thai army reduces presence

September 21, 2006

FEWER tanks patrolled the streets of Bangkok today as the Thai army reduced its presence at key government facilities, but troops would not be completely withdrawn yet, an army officer said.

Four tanks remained at Government House early today, compared to about 10 yesterday, and there were fewer armed soldiers on guard, a day and a half after the military seized power in a bloodless coup.

"As of now we have only two companies of troops, some 50 to 60, deployed at Government House but total withdrawal is up to the army commander because there is not yet complete trust in the situation,'' Lieutenant Romklao Thuwatham told AFP.

"The army chief is very concerned over security,'' he said, referring to Sonthi Boonyaratglin, the leader of the coup.

"If any small incident occurred, it could lead to violence, but soldiers will try to be relaxed.''

Tanks deployed along the main avenue leading to army headquarters and other ministries in central Bangkok were withdrawn late yesterday, ahead of the first full regular working day since the putsch.

Sources said the Military Council for Political Reform, as the generals are calling themselves, were not fully at ease because some of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's key ministers were gathering at air force bases.

The group included Defence Minister General Thammarak Issarangkura Na Ayutthaya, Air Chief Marshall Kongsak Vantana and Police General Jumpol Manmai, who is the head of the National Intelligence Agency.

full story here

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...06-1702,00.html

[kozi]

Just testing to see if I can participate

[Jai Dee]

Government House reopened for staff as normal

The Government House is now opened for the officials to work as usual even though the general atmosphere is quiet. Meanwhile, the Cabinet Secretary-General, Mr. Rongphol Charoenphanthu (รองพล เจริญพันธุ์), has refused to give interviews to the press members.

Following the seizure of administrative power by the Administrative Reform Council under the Constitutional Monarchy since yesterday, the officials in the Government House have continued to inspect the people and vehicles entering through Gate 5 of the venue. The officials are stationed throughout the Government House, while soldiers and tanks are stationed at Gate 1 of the venue.

Around 09:00 hours today, the Cabinet Secretary-General, Mr. Rongphol Charoenphanthu (รองพล เจริญพันธุ์), traveled to the Secretariat of the Cabinet, but refused to give interviews to the press members. He did not reveal the reason of his visit to the Government House and denied to respond whether he had contacted any of the ministers.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 September 2006

[Jai Dee]

Public Warning

Speculation and discussion about HM The King and Thai Royalty is against the Forum Rules.

Some posts in this thread have been deleted as they have violated this rule.

Information of this nature shall be limited to news bulletins content only.

Thanks for your understanding.

[Jai Dee]

The atmosphere at Si Sao Theves residence is in order

The atmosphere at Si Sao Theves residence of the Privy Council President and Statesman, Gen. Prem Tinsulanonda (เปรม ติณสูลานนท์), is in order amidst strict security measures provided by the army.

Motorists are now allowed to use the routes around Gen. Prem’s residence as the overall situation has returned to normal. Besides, no one has asked for a meeting with the Privy Council President.

As for the security measures, three police officers from Samsen (สามเสน) Police Station are stationed at the security booth in front of his residence. Four armed officers from Nawamin (นวมินทร์) Camp in Chonburi (ชลบุรี) Province have also brought in tanks to watch over the areas around Gen. Prem’s house.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 September 2006

[blam]

Sorry if this seems like a useless post.

Right now the world is being hammered with sensationalistic crap about the coup d'etat in Thailand.

We, with our feet on the ground here in Thailand, see many positives from this thing, and the negatives represent a very short list (and even that can only be found on a longtail headed out fast somewhere south of Klong Toey.)

The International community believes that the recipe for goodness and democracy is inherently everywhere, we in Thailand know that this is not true here at all. The coup, and the way that it happened, was a must do, it HAD to be done. Thaksin was never going to step down and the TRT was going to win any and every election, any time, and anywhere. Because of the depth of corruption, it could never lose.

Thinking again, a thousand pardons, some history...

Chiang Mai, as a city, has been in place for 800 years, the roads and streets are the exact same ones where elephants, rickshaws, and hand carts lasted for LOTS AND LOTS of hundreds of years. They have gone through a ton of stuff (Wars, occupations, brutal sieges & attacks, it was its own autonomous kingdom for centuries) and it has always survived in one way or another. For all of WWII the Japanese demanded it to be subservient and on its knees, and it was, or was it? There was always somebody screwing somebody on every level to get whatever it was that was needed or had to be done. Fast forward, now, the idea of democracy: Democracy is essentially a very NEW THING there in Chiang Mai. Even Thaksin learned his craft from the history of all of back stabbing and warring between kingdoms & peoples, and how insanely strong you have to be to survive, not to mention make it to the top. This was the Chiang Mai/Thaksin history and culture, and democracy was NOT IN THE EQUATION. Pure and simple.

Now;

This is going to sound like a really stupid question, but here goes anyway. This is an honest question, not tongue in cheek or anything else. I know this needs a new thread and is totally boring, but that's the point and here we are:

How and where do you begin to make 'democracy' work in Thailand?

Here in Thailand, or anywhere else, I believe that democracy has to stem from educated choices. Educated choices means access to non-dogmatic and truthful information so the voter can make a solid choice of what is best for him/her. How do you make a poor lowly educated Thai voter understand that the election is not about 'A nice Isaan dinner party, 400 Baht in a red envelope, and neung Saeng Som quat yai free to take home.' How do you convince them that it is not the way to choose your vote?

Quickly and off the top, I would say:

=Start with the schools, the teachers in the schools, the universities where the teachers get their degrees.

=Take TV out the hands of the military, create more TV channels & radio stations and mandate more educational and/or quality programming instead of low brow confrontational garbage.

=Create non profit (yeah right) programs that give truthful information to the public for free,

Add to this, please, I know everybody here has solid ideas. Our experienced Thai people on the board especially. How do you make democracy work in Thailand?

Thaksin is a product of his time and environment, his evildoings are just the way they got things done. He probably doen't even think he did anything wrong. Real democracy must be out there somewhere, how to start?

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

Edited September 21, 2006 by blam

[Hurricane51]

fruitbatt

If you believe in such utter twaddle as the existence of stereotypical "national characteristics" perhaps you are living in the wrong century, my friend. This is outdated anthropology-speak worthy of Margaret Mead in the early 20th century. It is also racist bullsh*t and contravenes rule 3 of ThaiVisa.

then how do you account for the fact that thais think , believe and react differently to americans , who in turn think , believe and react differently to pakistanis , who in turn think , believe and react differently to ....etc.etc.etc.

why is it racist to suggest that those brought up in a rural thai village environment will have characteristics of behaviour and values and ways of dealing with things that differ from people brought up in inner city london.

they are called cultural differences. its not racist. its not derogatory. its fact.

we are not all the same on this planet , and when one group of people have to deal with or understand another group , it pays to study the national characteristics of that other group.

the article 'the thai national characteristics" is a well written thesis , that goes a long way to explaining why thais think , behave and react as they do , and why attributes that we think of as negative are seen as positive by thais and vice versa.

is it racist or unfashionably 20th century to describe the thais as "smiling" or the british as "reticent"

Taxexile, you are confusing and conflating two separate issues. Cultural differences are quite a separate matter from the attribution of "national" characteristics. This difference is no mere semantic quibble: it is fundamental to an understanding of both sameness and difference.

Of course people think differently according to their cultural experiences, religion, age, memory, gender, family position, and a host of other variables. However, because difference is also individual, even people with similar cultural experiences have significantly different ideas and values. Hence it does not make sense to characterise all Thais as "smiling" or all Londoners as terminally reticent because of the "British stiff upper lip" or any other stereotypical explanation which discounts real differences.

"Nationalism" is a political construct. A "nation" does not exist physically as a "country" does: the nation is imaginary or symbolic - an ideology of "national" uniqueness in which "citizens" are encouraged by political rhetoric to invest their loyalty and "patriotism". The myth of nationalism is constructed out of material which is useful to engendering such feelings: a mythical golden age and common ancestry & "racial purity", where things were politically Edenic (and all Thais were smiling asparas hehe), through cultural products like patriotic songs, and poems, and stories, and histories, and media reports and anthropological studies which find what they set out to look for (surprise surprise): defining and limiting "national" characteristics.

In the context of this thread, the statement that "most Thais are corrupt by nature" suggests that "corruption" is innate, and an exclusively Thai national characteristic: an unequivocally racist statement! It also ignores the fact that many Thais are extremely concerned to crush corruption and to eradicate it from business, politics, and Buddhist institutions.

It is perhaps more helpful to point out in this connection that the cultural history and expectations of the "patron/client relationship" in South East Asian societies has enabled corruption at all levels of society, and also makes it very difficult to eradicate. The cultural dissonance between the legacy of patron/client relationship and the ideal of a corruption-free democracy is one of the sticking points in the political process in Thailand and elsewhere in SEA.

Someone might have posted this a while ago, but it suits the current discussion:

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.

--George Bernard Shaw

[fruittbatt]

Sorry if this seems like a useless post.

Right now the world is being hammered with sensationalistic crap about the coup d'etat in Thailand.

We, with our feet on the ground here in Thailand, see many positives from this thing, and the negatives represent a very short list (and even that can only be found on a longtail headed out fast somewhere south of Klong Toey.)

The International community believes that the recipe for goodness and democracy is inherently everywhere, we in Thailand know that this is not true here at all. The coup, and the way that it happened, was a must do, it HAD to be done. Thaksin was never going to step down and the TRT was going to win any and every election, any time, and anywhere. Because of the depth of corruption, it could never lose.

Thinking again, a thousand pardons, some history...

Chiang Mai, as a city, has been in place for 800 years, the roads and streets are the exact same ones where elephants, rickshaws, and hand carts lasted for LOTS AND LOTS of hundreds of years. They have gone through a ton of stuff (Wars, occupations, brutal sieges & attacks, it was its own autonomous kingdom for centuries) and it has always survived in one way or another. For all of WWII the Japanese demanded it to be subservient and on its knees, and it was, or was it? There was always somebody screwing somebody on every level to get whatever it was that was needed or had to be done. Fast forward, now, the idea of democracy: Democracy is essentially a very NEW THING there in Chiang Mai. Even Thaksin learned his craft from the history of all of back stabbing and warring between kingdoms & peoples, and how insanely strong you have to be to survive, not to mention make it to the top. This was the Chiang Mai/Thaksin history and culture, and democracy was NOT IN THE EQUATION. Pure and simple.

Now;

This is going to sound like a really stupid question, but here goes anyway. This is an honest question, not tongue in cheek or anything else. I know this needs a new thread and is totally boring, but that's the point and here we are:

How and where do you begin to make 'democracy' work in Thailand?

Here in Thailand, or anywhere else, I believe that democracy has to stem from educated choices. Educated choices means access to non-dogmatic and truthful information so the voter can make a solid choice of what is best for him/her. How do you make a poor lowly educated Thai voter understand that the election is not about 'A nice Isaan dinner party, 400 Baht in a red envelope, and neung Saeng Som quat yai free to take home.' How do you convince them that it is not the way to choose your vote?

Quickly and off the top, I would say:

=Start with the schools, the teachers in the schools, the universities where the teachers get their degrees.

=Take TV out the hands of the military, create more TV channels & radio stations and mandate more educational and/or quality programming instead of low brow confrontational garbage.

=Create non profit (yeah right) programs that give truthful information to the public for free,

Add to this, please, I know everybody here has solid ideas. Our experienced Thai people on the board especially. How do you make democracy work in Thailand?

Thaksin is a product of his time and environment, his evildoings are just the way they got things done. He probably doen't even think he did anything wrong. Real democracy must be out there somewhere, how to start?

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts to date, and may I please quote your first one to give my family a concise summary of events?

Re this post: a few points:

taking a step back from your point of departure, perhaps the question should be WHETHER "western style" democracy is an appropriate or realistic model for Thailand, and if not what is achievable.

I am too little qualified to intervene in such a debate, and have just today armed myself with some "catch up" reading on recent Thai political history to try to make better sense of the momentous historic events which we are lucky enough to be experiencing in the Kingdom. Hope others may be able to contribute in an informed manner to your interesting questions. Should be good reading.

[stumonster]

Thai commandos search plane for Thaksin

From correspondents in Bangkok

September 21, 2006

THE Thai Airways jet taken by Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to New York was forced to land at Bangkok's military airport and was searched by army commandos, officials and witnesses said today.

Thailand's military ousted Mr Thaksin late Tuesday in a bloodless coup while he was attending the UN General Assembly.

The billionaire politician flew to London, where he has a home, and the plane then returned to Bangkok with the press corps and some low-ranking officials who had travelled with him.

One of Mr Thaksin's aides on the plane said the heavily armed commandos were searching the plane to make sure the deposed premier was not trying to sneak back into the country.

"The commandos are not questioning anybody but they have conducted a thorough search," one of the journalists said.

The flight was supposed to land at Bangkok's commercial airport at 12.40pm (3.40pm AEST), but it was diverted to the nearby military airport where 10 commandos inspected the plane.

About 20 journalists and officials were on the flight, but top members of Mr Thaksin's cabinet - including foreign minister Kantathi Suphamongkhon and government spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee - did not return to Bangkok.

story continued here

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...92-1702,00.html

[Jai Dee]

Mr. Pramond believes coup d'etat will have impact on economy in short term

The President of the Thai Chamber of Commerce, Mr. Pramond Suthiwong (ประมนต์ สุธีวงศ์), believes that the military coup will only affect Thailand’s economy in the short term, and points out that the next Prime Minister must be honest and intelligent in all areas.

Mr. Pramond has admitted that he is worried about the temporary takeover of the administrative power by the Administrative Reform Council under the Constitutional Monarchy at a certain level. He said the economy in the Thailand would be affected from the coup for a short period of time because the political situation is undergoing changes. He however believes that the national economy will improve in the long run once the new government has been established.

Mr. Pramond added that the individual who would be the next premier should be well accepted by the society, and the person should be loyal as well.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 September 2006

[Jai Dee]

BOT Governor: military coup has not affected financial and capital markets

The Governor of the Bank of Thailand (BOT), M.R. Pridiyathorn Devakula (ม.ร.ว.ปรีดิยาธร เทวกุล), stated that the non-violent military coup by the Administrative Reform Council under the Constitutional Monarchy has not affected Thailand’s financial and capital markets. He affirmed that foreign investors still possess confidence in the national economy.

M.R. Pridiyathorn has denied a rumour he had been approached to take the premiership by the Administrative Reform Council. He said the value of Thai currency currently stands at 37.56 baht per one US dollar, adding that the value of Thai baht has strengthened from yesterday following the trading in London and New York markets.

He said local trade has been affected by one percent after its opening this morning, which is deemed usual and secure. He said the stock index would normally be lowered by five to ten percent, following the usual political upheaval.

The BOT Governor has indicated that exports and consumption continue to progress in a positive direction, and this shows that foreign investors still have confidence in the Thai economy.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 September 2006

[Farma]

Sky news is just reporting the Thai Coup leaders have announced a ban on political party meetings and new political parties

Link to story here http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,302...3543394,00.html

Edited September 21, 2006 by Farma

[BattyBatty]

Just heard from a friend all foriegners are required to carry passports. Can anyone confirm this? I appreciate this is the standard law and has been for a while, but apparently they are now enforcing it?

[oddedodd]

Just heard from a friend all foriegners are required to carry passports. Can anyone confirm this? I appreciate this is the standard law and has been for a while, but apparently they are now enforcing it?

You were required to carry your passport with you even before the coup. Or at least a photo copy of your ID page, and the Visa stamps etc.

[astral]

Democracy in the U.S. will be different from democracy elsewhere. If the day comes that democracy is totally accepted and utilized as a form of government here in Iraq it will, again, be different from the United States version and living in Iraq won't be the same as living in the states. The people are unique to their homeland.. Thats just the way it is.

Well said.

I wish the Americans could understand this.

[Hurricane51]

Democracy in the U.S. will be different from democracy elsewhere. If the day comes that democracy is totally accepted and utilized as a form of government here in Iraq it will, again, be different from the United States version and living in Iraq won't be the same as living in the states. The people are unique to their homeland.. Thats just the way it is.

Well said.

I wish the Americans could understand this.

Well, I think we're back to generalizations. Why not say, "I wish the American leadership" or "I wish the current administration in America"? It's like associating all Thais with the political viewpoint of Thaksin.

As an American, I can't believe how arrogant the current administration is. And that can be said for previous administrations, but not to such a degree. Sound familiar?

Remember, Bush won (???) a very close election, and he certainly is far less popular than he was at that election.

As one of my friends said after Bush was elected to his first term, "I know I'm being naive, but I always thought the President should be smarter than me. Now we have one who can't even speak. At least Reagan could speak and tell jokes."

[Hermano Lobo]

Democracy in the U.S. will be different from democracy elsewhere. If the day comes that democracy is totally accepted and utilized as a form of government here in Iraq it will, again, be different from the United States version and living in Iraq won't be the same as living in the states. The people are unique to their homeland.. Thats just the way it is.

Well said.

I wish the Americans could understand this.

I understand that more people voted in the US version of Big Brother than did in the elections?

The EU leaders are horrified because they know that the public is aware of the Gravy Train the EU leaders are happily riding.

Are the EU Commisioners Democratically Elected ?

Here is one for America:-

www.imdb.com/title/tt0058576/]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058576/

[Hurricane51]

Democracy in the U.S. will be different from democracy elsewhere. If the day comes that democracy is totally accepted and utilized as a form of government here in Iraq it will, again, be different from the United States version and living in Iraq won't be the same as living in the states. The people are unique to their homeland.. Thats just the way it is.

Well said.

I wish the Americans could understand this.

I understand that more people voted in the US version of Big Brother than did in the elections?

The EU leaders are horrified because they know that the public is aware of the Gravy Train the EU leaders are happily riding.

Are the EU Commisioners Democratically Elected ?

Here is one for America:-

www.imdb.com/title/tt0058576/]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058576/

That's a good film. They don't make them...Ooops! I keep showing my age.

[Hermano Lobo]

[/b]

There will be a General Election . . . in Oct 2007

Fact : Portugal was a close friend and a good ally of USA in the 60 and 70. Then the army took power on behalf of the people and kicked the lawfully dictator (lawfully because laws were made to allow him to be a legal dictator, those laws were made by a parliement ... Some stated at those time it was near to democracy). So what did the portugese army? Simply what they said they will do, they gived back the power to the people as soon as it was possible. Why not here? Why not simply admit the people who did this coup are genuily honest and simply took a painfull decision for the good of the thai public?

We can not judge now, only hystory will be able to give a judment ... later.

I know a few Portuguese that wish the military had held onto power.

The only thing that Mario Soares(former PM) fought for was the best seat in a restaurant !

Then there is that corrupt slimey creep José Manuel Barroso(former PM), President of the European Commission. The Great Gravy Train.

Portugal is a basket case and a bureaucratic nightmare.

If I own a restaurant/bar in the Algarve I have to display a licence in the window if I want to pin up a small poster inside my restaurant, advertising a guitarist playing there one night.

Their once large shoe manufacturing industry has gone. Most of the politicians have been on the take for years one way or another.

You can still get good Portuguese wine. Nice beaches.

Edited September 21, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[LaoPo]

BOT Governor: military coup has not affected financial and capital markets

The Governor of the Bank of Thailand (BOT), M.R. Pridiyathorn Devakula (ม.ร.ว.ปรีดิยาธร เทวกุล), stated that the non-violent military coup by the Administrative Reform Council under the Constitutional Monarchy has not affected Thailand’s financial and capital markets.

He affirmed that foreign investors still possess confidence in the national economy.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 September 2006

Wishful thinking ; 'foreign' investors/global companies/multinationals will think twice before commiting themselves putting substantial capital into a shaken country where NOTHING is guaranteed.

The past years have proven that Thailand is very unstable and insecure in its laws and foreign investors do not appreciate uncertainties, especially in economical/investment laws.

LaoPo

[george]

Thread off topic and closed. We will open new threads when we have some breaking news events.

Thanks!

/Admin