Lite Beer Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 New mindset required to end tour guides problemBANGKOK: -- Maybe a regional approach would be best to overcome scams and conflicts plaguing the tourist sectorTrouble is slowly brewing in the tourism industry as licensed guides take to the streets in Pattaya to protest against unlicensed foreigners allegedly taking away their jobs.Over 100 Thai guides who work in Pattaya staged an angry protest in front of Pattaya police station this past week to call on authorities to do more to crack down against illegal foreign tour guides who work in the seaside resort town.Some harsh words were ditched out at a Chinese man who the protesters believed was an illegal tour guide. The man was leading a group of Chinese visitors and accidentally came across the noisy protesters.To get around this problem, there have been suggestions that foreign tour guides be permitted to work legally as "Tour Coordinators", alongside Thai tour guides.The occupation of tour guides in Thailand is protected by law, which basically says one has to be a licensed Thai national to do the job. Many interpret this to mean that Thailand does not allow foreign guides to work in the country, not even accompanying a group of foreign visitors. In other words, foreign visitors travelling in groups and in need of a guide must hire Thai nationals to show them around.The longstanding argument is that foreign guides might not know about Thailand, especially areas of cultural sensitivity, compared to local tour guides.But this often comes across as a convenient excuse, according to people in the tourism industry, because Thai tour guides are notorious for skimming or getting a percentage of whatever visitors spend at certain outlets - much more than cultural issues.So it's safe to assume that the uproar in Pattaya is probably more about personal and selfish reasons rather than protecting Thailand's cultural heritage.While Thai tour guides like to cling to nationalism and cultural preservation amid a need to protect such jobs for locals, their track record suggests that getting kickbacks from local business outlets like hotels, guesthouses, restaurants, jewellery shops, etc, is really a key priority for them.In other words, this is an issue of business ethics that the industry will have to address head on if the tourism industry is move forward to better quality and service.Moreover, let's not fool ourselves into thinking that commissions or a percentage going to tour guides from business outlets come from a shop owners' pocket. At the end of the day, this is money that visitors could have saved but didn't because of our culture of under-the-table deals.Perhaps we should rethink the whole thing and look at it from a regional point of view - making it an Asean initiative, might require tour operators and guides to 'think globally and act regionally'.In other words, liberalise the industry at the regional level so that guides from Asean member countries can all function as one entity. Border crossing would be less significant as strategy and destination would not be confined to any particular nation but pockets in Southeast Asia instead. This would be in line with the Asean Economic Community that many of us like to hype about but say little about what this means in real terms.Taking this route would require Thai tour operators to broaden their scope, and enhance their capacity.It would also require Thai guides to have a better understanding of our neighbouring countries, languages and ways of doing businesses. Ever wondered why so many Burmese, Cambodian and Vietnamese working in Thailand speak excellent Thai?Generally speaking, people who can afford to pay more will do so if the service is worth the money. But, universally, what people don't like is being ripped off. If the government is serious about obtaining a better understanding about this phenomenon, perhaps they should take a survey of foreign and local visitors at places like Phuket and ask about their cab or tuk-tuk fare.The short-sighted nature of our industry encourages the people in tourism businesses to suck as much as we can from these visitors because we don't know what tomorrow will hold.But it doesn't have to be that way if all of us work hard to end scams and put the con artists out of businesses and focus on a long-term strategy that's sustainable and gives a sense of fair play to all sides. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/New-mindset-required-to-end-tour-guides-problem-30264747.html -- The Nation 2015-07-19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somtamnication Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 You are asking Thai culture to change. It won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyW Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Wow, quite a number of home truths in that article!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckBee Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) a lot of truths but will be several generations before things might change as current mind set of illogical thought & greed is not fixed quick Edited July 18, 2015 by BuckBee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokfrog Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Fine sentiments but highly unlikely, since guides from other AEC countries may end up telling the truth about some cultural sites and past events rather than perpetuate the myths found in many Thai history books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingalfred Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Hell have no fury like a Thai tour guide having their scamming living hijacked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clockman Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ethics is an alien concept, in Thailand. Same as logic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywalker Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Article was obviously written by a farang with no sense of "Thainess". Gotta say good on The Nation for printing a few constructively critical articles recently. I'm amazed that the lot of them aren't in the BKK Hilton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranO Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Guess they dont know about the new law requiring them to get permission to have a protest now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod reborn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 And when ASEAN integration begins, we can expect this same attitude from Thais in every industry other than unskilled labor positions. Protectionism will run rampant with government officials enacting and personally inventing any obstacle they can think of to prevent better qualified workers competing for jobs held by Thais, particularly those positions from which kickbacks and other questionable perks can be extracted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kannikapor88 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Lots of truth in that article - Journalist will be called to AA asap ... Change the culture of how thais view other people ... Dont think so ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman34014 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Headline should read....''New mindset required to end Thailand's problems '' !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) To be fair most if not all guides have actually gone to university to get a degree to be a guide, I can understand some of what they are protesting. But saying that the idea to have co guides who are fluent in the groups language makes sense. Edited July 19, 2015 by casualbiker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just1Voice Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Once ASEAN fully kicks in, Thailand is going to be like a deer in the headlights, and won't even hear the "thump" when the ASEAN truck runs over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya28 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Quote ""Taking this route would require Thai tour operators to broaden their scope, and enhance their capacity."" Impossible, when it's all about "Me Me Me". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thhMan Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Great article that makes light of what many of us know.... Many Thai people who deal with Tourists, like to make an extra buck at the tourists expense. Even being an Expat for 10 years, I still get classed as a tourist, not only by the thieving bastards that charge me double, but also by the Govt that treats me like an outsider..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTIRIOS Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 ....scam after scam after scam..... ...the land of pretend........ ...you know that a sociopath would even kill you to maintain pretense....so good luck... ...reminds me of someone I once married.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 So working along side a Thai tour guide, as a counselor, would be basically be the same beef Thai assistant teachers, holding a bachelor's degree, have with foreign teachers who have a only a rudimentary education with a teaching certificate. And of course the counselor earns less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emster23 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 "this route would require Thai tour operators to broaden their scope, and enhance their capacity." Love those meaningless buzzwords "broaden their scope" and "Enhance their capacity".... perhaps learn the language of the visitors they are supposedly guiding? Have slight understanding of visitors culture, although by definition inferior to Thailand? "Ever wondered why so many Burmese, Cambodian and Vietnamese working in Thailand speak excellent Thai?" Let me guess: they wanted to learn it and studied? Ever wonder why some Thai graduates majoring in English speak poorer English than bar girls? Stop the damn protests, do your homework and provide service worthy of pay and perhaps you wouldn't be bumped off the list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickylies Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The longstanding argument is that foreign guides might not know about Thailand, especially areas of cultural sensitivity, compared to local tour guides. cultural sensitivity, hehe. good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just1Voice Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 When most bar girls have a better grasp and understanding, and speaking ability, of the English language than those who graduate with Master's in English do, something is seriously wrong. Got 2 Thai friends, husband and wife, both with Master's from Chula in English, and for me to hold a conversation with them, I have to use simple 1 & 2 syllable words, and speak very slowly. Wife knows a Tour Guide here in Chiang Mai who is a guide for Chinese tourists. He can't speak a single word of Chinese. Says he doesn't have to, because the Chinese who come to visit should speak Thai. Such is the mind set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabothai Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 may be a school for tourleaders would do some wonders. No graduate, no license. No time then for protesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickylies Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 When most bar girls have a better grasp and understanding, and speaking ability, of the English language than those who graduate with Master's in English do, something is seriously wrong. Got 2 Thai friends, husband and wife, both with Master's from Chula in English, and for me to hold a conversation with them, I have to use simple 1 & 2 syllable words, and speak very slowly. Wife knows a Tour Guide here in Chiang Mai who is a guide for Chinese tourists. He can't speak a single word of Chinese. Says he doesn't have to, because the Chinese who come to visit should speak Thai. Such is the mind set. I'm not a BG expert but I agree. I went to this national park. Taking/paying a guide was mandatory, no English was spoken and the 'brochure' was in Thai only too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammygood Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 scamming tourists is a thai only allowed business category Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 So working along side a Thai tour guide, as a counselor, would be basically be the same beef Thai assistant teachers, holding a bachelor's degree, have with foreign teachers who have a only a rudimentary education with a teaching certificate. And of course the counselor earns less. If they spoke perfect English, they would earn more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickylies Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 scamming tourists is a thai only allowed business category Luckily! Imagine all the white trash were also allowed to scam their fellowmen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupatria Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 To get around this problem, there have been suggestions that foreign tour guides be permitted to work legally as "Tour Coordinators", alongside Thai tour guides. I already know what this means: the farrang guy is doing the job while the Thai guide sleeps in the bus until they stop at his contracted crap shop where he forks in by head count of potential customers. The longstanding argument is that foreign guides might not know about Thailand, especially areas of cultural sensitivity, compared to local tour guides. If a Thai tour guide should explain "Thainess" and do'd and don'ts to a group of let's say Dutch tourists in competition with a Dutch guide, I guess it's no secret who's the one to get a good tip from the group members... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywalker Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 To be fair most if not all guides have actually gone to university to get a degree to be a guide, I can understand some of what they are protesting. But saying that the idea to have co guides who are fluent in the groups language makes sense. Therein lies the problem. The last two words..."Makes sense". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywalker Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 When most bar girls have a better grasp and understanding, and speaking ability, of the English language than those who graduate with Master's in English do, something is seriously wrong. Got 2 Thai friends, husband and wife, both with Master's from Chula in English, and for me to hold a conversation with them, I have to use simple 1 & 2 syllable words, and speak very slowly. Wife knows a Tour Guide here in Chiang Mai who is a guide for Chinese tourists. He can't speak a single word of Chinese. Says he doesn't have to, because the Chinese who come to visit should speak Thai. Such is the mind set. The bar girls do speak far more English than most. They also deliver quite good service and are most accommodating. I ain't fluent but do speak & Kow Jai a lot of Thai... after living there a decade. A one week package tour of Chinese will hardly pick up the language though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgdawg Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Just1Thought nailed it perfectly: <<When most bar girls have a better grasp and understanding, and speaking ability, of the English language than those who graduate with Master's in English do, something is seriously wrong. Got 2 Thai friends, husband and wife, both with Master's from Chula in English, and for me to hold a conversation with them, I have to use simple 1 & 2 syllable words, and speak very slowly. Wife knows a Tour Guide here in Chiang Mai who is a guide for Chinese tourists. He can't speak a single word of Chinese. Says he doesn't have to, because the Chinese who come to visit should speak Thai. Such is the mind set.>> The Thai rip-off mentality is so endemic, there will be a 3rd and 4th Ice Age before Kon Thai change one iota. The jet-ski scams, taxi scams, airport scams, jade scams, and now heap tour guide scams. I think "...we are all shocked, shocked I say!" As in Bogart and French Police officer in "Casablanca." Thai Culture. It really depends on how much wishes to allow themselves to be abused. The greater one's tolerance for being abused translates into one's love for Thailand. Add motorbike and hotel rip-off scams. Granted--there is a learning curve to driving a motorbike in Thailand. Thai police have learned from falangs buzzing about Pattaya to ticket any falang who dares to ride a motorbike in Bangkok---instant ticket. Not making any errors, other than the Tai police wish to send a shot across the bow. Oh yeah, and collect funds in the process. Thai Culture. Thai Army has trimmed so many illicit former revenue streams for Bangkok police that now the cops are enforcing the "must have passport on your person at all times" rule. No xerox. No passport card that one can easily carry in their wallet. Not have your passport and get stiffed for 2,000b. Thai Culture. Hotels. My water heater never worked from the day I moved into my hotel room recently. Mind you, I have been staying at the same hotel in Pattaya for 10 years, 9 months at a time and have never been late a single day of rent. It was a cold December with a cool front howling down from China and my shower water was freezing. Crappy Tai water heaters produce "off cold" water and never hot water. I lodged my concern with hotel owners for over a month. They refused to hire a plumber. Hotel owner would come to my room and wave the shower head about...and BINGO---red power light would flicker for an instant. You see--"all fixed." Tensions rose. Kon Thai have no earthly concept of "preventative maintenance." The mind-set that rules the country is a Siam version of "Cargo Cult 404." If you are unfamiliar with the term "cargo cult," Google it up. Thailand is based on this view of the world. Endemic in every way from amulets adorning Somchai's Formula 1 Taxi in disguise, to bait and switch games all day long. Gets old, fast. A long timer at my hotel saw the approaching carnage and pulled me aside. He said "...live with the cold water or buy a water heater and install it yourself." The hotel owner voiced "...if you had stayed in your falang country, this would not have happened. Your presence has caused the 15 year old water heater to cease functioning." Thai Culture. The hotel owner blamed me for breaking their ancient crappy wall mounted water heater. Thai Culture. I was also informed that if I made mention of this, they would file charges against me for defaming their crappy Pattaya hotel which is filled with construction noise and dust. Nothing like jackhammers firing up at 8am. WoooHoooo---you can have it. The place is Scam Central, so endemic, it is akin to breathing. I had my fill and moved on. Knock yourself out. One day---you will have your fill as well. And Kon Thai will summon an official government commission to study why falangs have ceased arriving to get ripped-off. Of course, this Commission will be an exercise in nepotism, graft, corruption and kick backs. Thai Culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now