7/11 shops too close to each other

[tropo]

You must be bored to worry about 7-11 being to close together.

How must he be bored? It is an interesting topic, and he is asking what a lot of people are thinking.

Like I always say, this is what helps Thaivisa to be so successful.

I agree, This is a fascinating topic. Where in the world are 24 hour convenience stores on every block. It was the one thing which amazed me from the time I first visited.

I asked the question before but no one could answer. I'll ask again here: Does anyone have even a rough guestimate of the number of 7Elevens and/or Family Marts in Pattaya (including Naklua and Jomtien).

[tropo]

When our daughter started working at 7-Eleven, I did a little research into the7-Eleven franchise just to understand how things work. As others have noted, the "franchise" is more like a rental, as the franchise agreement is for a fixed number of years. There's no protected territory, so if CP All (the master franchisee for Thailand) decides they can make a little more money by having 2 stores in close proximity, that's what they'll do (all at the expense of the original franchisee). For example, let's say I buy a franchise and I'm doing 1 million baht per month in sales. CP All decides that if another 7-Eleven were to be opened 50 meters down the street, they could increase their revenue to 1.2 million baht in total. Never mind the fact that my sales will drop to 600,000 and the new store will do just 600,000 - not their problem, they're making incrementally more money.

Now that our daughter is working there, I have a little more insight into the dark side of local store operations. I don't know if all stores have the same policies, but for this particular store the employees work a 9 hour shift with no designated meal period, six days per week. Pay rate seems to be a fixed 400 baht/day. It is yet to be seen if she gets any OT for the days when she works a 12 hour shift, or the days where she has to stay an extra hour or so because the next shift is late. The worst seems to be that employees must share the expense of stolen items as well as food items that do not sell prior to their expiration date. For example, if the inventory comes up short 8,000 baht and 2,000 baht of food products are expired in a month, then this 10,000 baht expense is divided among each of the 9 employees and is cut from their pay. In this case, 1,100 baht is deducted from each employee's approximately 10,000 baht paycheck. I'm still waiting for verification of this, but if true, she will not be working there much longer. (This might explain why there is such high store-level employee turnover at 7-Eleven).

I don't think you have the story correct about expired items left on the shelf. Perhaps you're talking about expired items which haven't been taken down before the expiry date. Every day the staff go though all the items and pull out near expired items. I have a theory (note, theory) that these items are not owned by the shop, but put up on consignment by the product vendors who estimate how many can be sold and stock accordingly... and they foot the cost of expired items which weren't sold.

The staff have the important job of ensuring that older items are placed in the front of shelves and near expired items are taken off. I've seen bins full of baked goods taken off that didn't sell before expiry. There's no way staff could pay for that out of their wages.

Edited July 24, 2015 by tropo

[Ace of Pop]

When our daughter started working at 7-Eleven, I did a little research into the7-Eleven franchise just to understand how things work. As others have noted, the "franchise" is more like a rental, as the franchise agreement is for a fixed number of years. There's no protected territory, so if CP All (the master franchisee for Thailand) decides they can make a little more money by having 2 stores in close proximity, that's what they'll do (all at the expense of the original franchisee). For example, let's say I buy a franchise and I'm doing 1 million baht per month in sales. CP All decides that if another 7-Eleven were to be opened 50 meters down the street, they could increase their revenue to 1.2 million baht in total. Never mind the fact that my sales will drop to 600,000 and the new store will do just 600,000 - not their problem, they're making incrementally more money.

Now that our daughter is working there, I have a little more insight into the dark side of local store operations. I don't know if all stores have the same policies, but for this particular store the employees work a 9 hour shift with no designated meal period, six days per week. Pay rate seems to be a fixed 400 baht/day. It is yet to be seen if she gets any OT for the days when she works a 12 hour shift, or the days where she has to stay an extra hour or so because the next shift is late. The worst seems to be that employees must share the expense of stolen items as well as food items that do not sell prior to their expiration date. For example, if the inventory comes up short 8,000 baht and 2,000 baht of food products are expired in a month, then this 10,000 baht expense is divided among each of the 9 employees and is cut from their pay. In this case, 1,100 baht is deducted from each employee's approximately 10,000 baht paycheck. I'm still waiting for verification of this, but if true, she will not be working there much longer. (This might explain why there is such high store-level employee turnover at 7-Eleven).

. At Last the truth....the min wage should be by an 8 hour day not apiece of string.

[DrDave]

Dr Dave if they are deducting amounts from salary I can’t believe they would be allowed to do that legally. Surely it would be the franchisee that should bear those kinds of costs?

Whilst I don’t recommend you identify yourself or your daughter I would write an anonymous letter to the Department of Labour protection and welfare (see link below) using a third party or a fictitious name and a different address explaining why you don’t want to identify yourself but saying you believe it’s very unfair to penalize ordinary employees this way by deducting over 1000 baht and are they legally allowed to do it?

With regards to your daughter working a 9 hour shift with no designated meal period, six days per week the Department of labour website says in paragraph 2 of Rights and Duties Employer and Employee

Rest period during normal work

An employee is entitled to a rest of not less than 1 hour a day after work for 5 consecutive hours.

An employee may take the rests periodically of less than 1 hour but the total rest period per day must not be less than 1 hour.

In case of a beverage shop or a food shop where dose not open or provide service continuously on each day, an employee may take to a rest of 2 hours a day.

An employer who obtains an employee’s prior consent may not arrange a rest period for the employee in case of emergency work, or character or nature of work needs it to be performed continu­ously

http://www.labour.go.th/en/index.php/home

Asiantravel, thanks for the information.

Our first thought was to contact CP All headquarters in Bangkok and ask them what the official corporate policy is regarding meal periods, overtime, stolen/expired product and register over/under amounts. I do know for a fact that all new employees are required to have a "backer" who must sign a document promising to pay an employee's debt to the company in the event that an employee with a balance due does a runner. Very much like a co-signer on a loan. The balance due would presumably be due to theft or any other charges that might be levied. Unbelievably, the "backer" must provide a copy of his/her bank book showing a balance of at least 3,000 baht if I recall correctly.

[DrDave]

I don't think you have the story correct about expired items left on the shelf. Perhaps you're talking about expired items which haven't been taken down before the expiry date. Every day the staff go though all the items and pull out near expired items. I have a theory (note, theory) that these items are not owned by the shop, but put up on consignment by the product vendors who estimate how many can be sold and stock accordingly... and they foot the cost of expired items which weren't sold.

The staff have the important job of ensuring that older items are placed in the front of shelves and near expired items are taken off. I've seen bins full of baked goods taken off that didn't sell before expiry. There's no way staff could pay for that out of their wages.

tropo, I think that your theory is probably correct - it makes a lot of sense.

Upon a little more investigation, the issue seems to be that if the employee(s) responsible for taking down the nearly expired products don't do it, then all of the employees across all shifts must cover the cost. While not necessarily fair, it would be wise for all employees to check for nearly expired products before the end of their shift every day regardless of who is actually responsible. One would think that the store manager should have the responsibility (and accountability) for removing nearly expired products each day, but that's not the way it works at this particular store.

[questionsreplies]

711 pay suppliers after items are sold and unsold products are returned.

Staff only pay for not doing their job correctly: items about to expire not noticed by staff and not returned to suppliers on time are paid by staff.

[pinkpanther99]

You must be bored to worry about 7-11 being to close together.

How must he be bored? It is an interesting topic, and he is asking what a lot of people are thinking.

Like I always say, this is what helps Thaivisa to be so successful.

I agree, This is a fascinating topic. Where in the world are 24 hour convenience stores on every block. It was the one thing which amazed me from the time I first visited.

I asked the question before but no one could answer. I'll ask again here: Does anyone have even a rough guestimate of the number of 7Elevens and/or Family Marts in Pattaya (including Naklua and Jomtien).

I agree. On the face of it I have no real interest in 7 Eleven yet of course use their services daily.

This thread has been a really interesting read and some good posts not only about 7/11 but also about business and franchises.

[pinkpanther99]

From the 7/11 Wikipedia page:

ThailandEdit

The first store opened in 1989 on Patpong Road in Bangkok. The franchise in Thailand is the CP ALL Public Company Limited, which in turn grants franchises to operators. There are 8,334[22] 7-Eleven stores in Thailand as of 2013, with approximately 50% located in Bangkok. Thailand has the 3rd largest number of 7-Eleven stores after Japan and the United States.[23]

The company plans to spend five billion Thai baht to expand its business. Two billion will be used to open 500 new outlets, one billion to renovate existing stores, and the rest to develop a new distribution center in the East.[24]

But doesn't answer the question about how many stores in Pattaya.

[Ace of Pop]

It shows Winki needs a pinch of salt. Any one can add anything... I've read reports on richard branson that are hollows.

[tropo]

It shows Winki needs a pinch of salt. Any one can add anything... I've read reports on richard branson that are hollows.

"Winki" wasn't too far off.

From the 7Eleven website we read this:

https://www.cpall.co.th//Corporate/about-cp-all

At the end of the year 2014, the Company had a total of 8,127 stores nationwide. Of the total 3,648 stores are in Bangkok and its vicinities (45 percent) and 4,479 stores are in provincial areas (55 percent). According to type of store, there are 3,570 corporate stores (44 percent), 3,916 franchise stores (48 percent), and 641 sub-area license stores (8 percent). Presently, an average of 9.7 million customers visits 7-Eleven stores each day.

In 2014, the Company expanded another 698 new stores both as stand-alone stores and stores located in PTT gas stations to reach more target customers both in Bangkok and its vicinities and provincial areas.At the end of 2014, the Company had 6,986 stand-alone stores (86 percent) and 1,141 stores in PTT gas stations (14 percent).

The Company has plans to further open approximately 600 new stores annually, with the milestone of 10,000 stores in 2018. With the strategy of being the convenience food store of Thais, emphasis will be placed on ready-to-eat foods that are fresh, clean and safe and developing new products with business partners to offer a variety of new products that are available only in 7-Eleven stores.

They also have detailed financial statements available for public scrutiny, which put the company's total assets as of 31 December 2014 at approximately USD 9.9 billion.

Edited July 24, 2015 by tropo

[pegman]

You must be bored to worry about 7-11 being to close together.

How must he be bored? It is an interesting topic, and he is asking what a lot of people are thinking.

Like I always say, this is what helps Thaivisa to be so successful.

I agree, This is a fascinating topic. Where in the world are 24 hour convenience stores on every block. It was the one thing which amazed me from the time I first visited.

I asked the question before but no one could answer. I'll ask again here: Does anyone have even a rough guestimate of the number of 7Elevens and/or Family Marts in Pattaya (including Naklua and Jomtien).

6 + a FoodMart under 10 minute walk of my condo gates.

[pegman]

It shows Winki needs a pinch of salt. Any one can add anything... I've read reports on richard branson that are hollows.

"Winki" wasn't too far off.

From the 7Eleven website we read this:

https://www.cpall.co.th//Corporate/about-cp-all

At the end of the year 2014, the Company had a total of 8,127 stores nationwide. Of the total 3,648 stores are in Bangkok and its vicinities (45 percent) and 4,479 stores are in provincial areas (55 percent). According to type of store, there are 3,570 corporate stores (44 percent), 3,916 franchise stores (48 percent), and 641 sub-area license stores (8 percent). Presently, an average of 9.7 million customers visits 7-Eleven stores each day.

In 2014, the Company expanded another 698 new stores both as stand-alone stores and stores located in PTT gas stations to reach more target customers both in Bangkok and its vicinities and provincial areas.At the end of 2014, the Company had 6,986 stand-alone stores (86 percent) and 1,141 stores in PTT gas stations (14 percent).

The Company has plans to further open approximately 600 new stores annually, with the milestone of 10,000 stores in 2018. With the strategy of being the convenience food store of Thais, emphasis will be placed on ready-to-eat foods that are fresh, clean and safe and developing new products with business partners to offer a variety of new products that are available only in 7-Eleven stores.

They also have detailed financial statements available for public scrutiny, which put the company's total assets as of 31 December 2014 at approximately USD 9.9 billion.

Maybe if this outfit back home charged prices similar to grocers like here there would be the need for this kind of growth there also.

[digbeth]

now how about topics where people complain about how close together are bars and pubs in Pattaya, any takers?

[petercool]

A bit off topic but related .... when I lived in Bangkok I saw that shops in Chinatown area would group together ... shoe shops, scissors etc shops, electric motor shops, music stores etc.They would be four or more in a row seemingly selling the same things. I don't think the average Thai worries about that and it all seems to work somehow.

[Asiantravel]

A bit off topic but related .... when I lived in Bangkok I saw that shops in Chinatown area would group together ... shoe shops, scissors etc shops, electric motor shops, music stores etc.They would be four or more in a row seemingly selling the same things. I don't think the average Thai worries about that and it all seems to work somehow.

nothing wrong with similar kinds of business congregating together.

the big difference is those individual shopowners have total freedom to innovate regarding their approach to business and can do anything they want to try to differentiate themselves from their competition such as marketing, discounts, advertising and everything else involved in running your own business.

711 franchisees however not only have to pay between 1-2.5 million baht upfront but then they are totally restricted as to what methods they can use to try to differentiate themselves from competition- including competition from their own brand?

[gk10002000]

A 7-11 franchise costs 1.5 million Thai baht. Requires 1 million in bank book to get appointment to discuss getting a store. Owner operator gets guaranteed 27,000 Thb monthly salary and some limited profit sharing. If after one year you wish to sell your store you get 1 million Thb back from company. They take over store and find new buyer. There is a 2nd option requiring 2.5 million Thb with percentage sharing of expenses and profits. Same guarantee if return of 1 million Thb after 1 year if you want to sell or leave the business. 7-11 picks this location. They control the other stores too. No exclusive area. Just some of my recollection of earlier discussions with 7-11 reps at a franchise trade fair in Bangkok two years ago.

That does not sound like a horrible arrangement for somebody looking to stay in Thailand and do business. I presume they would get some help or have access to some people that can help them with the paperwork. I also assume this would make them eligible to obtain a proper long term visa. I am not sure how much money a store makes which obviously depends hugely on the location

[Lozza]

7-11 exclusivity is not the same in Thailand as in other countries

There appears to be no protection for the franchisee from the company since the main 7-11 distributor appears to be able to compete directly wherever they want, exclusivity does not appear to be a requirement over here since it is obviously not enforced

same with dentist and optical stores. I agree very odd

[johng]

That does not sound like a horrible arrangement for somebody looking to stay in Thailand and do business. I presume they would get some help or have access to some people that can help them with the paperwork. I also assume this would make them eligible to obtain a proper long term visa. I am not sure how much money a store makes which obviously depends hugely on the location

Hmmmmm wonder why we never see foreigners running / working in 7/11, Family Mart etc etc ??

Maybe because doing so does not help with a long term visa and no work permit due to the reserved for Thais only professions ?

[tropo]

A bit off topic but related .... when I lived in Bangkok I saw that shops in Chinatown area would group together ... shoe shops, scissors etc shops, electric motor shops, music stores etc.They would be four or more in a row seemingly selling the same things. I don't think the average Thai worries about that and it all seems to work somehow.

Competition doesn't seem to concern Thais as much as the rest of us. They figure that when they move into competition with another business they can do better.

My hairdresser just opened up a new salon in Central, where there are 5 salons in a row... obviously selling the same thing. He said he likes competition because it keeps him focused on creating ways to beat the competition. After 6 months he's already the busiest salon in Central, because he has a few business secrets, which I won't expose here. We're talking about a shop which costs over 200k per month to rent.

Edited July 26, 2015 by tropo

[soistalker]

How far do you expect me to walk for my next beer Chang?

[mikemac]

Whoever pays, the customer, the franchisee or both, CP will make their profit!

When my wife takes my son, not quite 2 years old, to the local 7-11 he always asks for "shausage" .........

[tropo]

Whoever pays, the customer, the franchisee or both, CP will make their profit!

When my wife takes my son, not quite 2 years old, to the local 7-11 he always asks for "shausage" .........

Do you know what he's eating in the sausage?

[jaywalker]

7-11 exclusivity is not the same in Thailand as in other countries

There appears to be no protection for the franchisee from the company since the main 7-11 distributor appears to be able to compete directly wherever they want, exclusivity does not appear to be a requirement over here since it is obviously not enforced

I think you're right. In the US a franchisee buys a protected territory as he does with fast food, etc. On 7/11's US site there are disclaimers and asterisks making it clear that there aren't the same controls in other countries.

7/11 is very old and grew throughout the US. Now there are at least twice as many stores outside the US as there are in the US. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that 7/11 wishes it hadn't sold the rights it did and instead sold franchise rights to individuals to maintain control. If the investors in Thailand go belly up with some stores due to overcrowding, I guess that will be their problem and not that of the parent company.

Cheers.

My wife came to the US & was utterly flabbergasted that we had 7-11's also. She was quite certain they had been invented in Thailand.

The whole idea of the convenience store started here. They were originally open from 7:00 AM to 11:00 PM, hence the name. 7-11.

I was a very young kid but I remember the TV commercials in the early 70's when they first started.

She was a lot of fun to embarrass in Indiana. I once commented loudly (in Thai) to her about a very obese lady at Walmart.

Pom pooey maak maak la?

She tried to melt into the floor. She was the only person within 500 miles that understood what I was saying.

[tropo]

7-11 exclusivity is not the same in Thailand as in other countries

There appears to be no protection for the franchisee from the company since the main 7-11 distributor appears to be able to compete directly wherever they want, exclusivity does not appear to be a requirement over here since it is obviously not enforced

I think you're right. In the US a franchisee buys a protected territory as he does with fast food, etc. On 7/11's US site there are disclaimers and asterisks making it clear that there aren't the same controls in other countries.

7/11 is very old and grew throughout the US. Now there are at least twice as many stores outside the US as there are in the US. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that 7/11 wishes it hadn't sold the rights it did and instead sold franchise rights to individuals to maintain control. If the investors in Thailand go belly up with some stores due to overcrowding, I guess that will be their problem and not that of the parent company.

Cheers.

My wife came to the US & was utterly flabbergasted that we had 7-11's also. She was quite certain they had been invented in Thailand.

The whole idea of the convenience store started here. They were originally open from 7:00 AM to 11:00 PM, hence the name. 7-11.

I was a very young kid but I remember the TV commercials in the early 70's when they first started.

She was a lot of fun to embarrass in Indiana. I once commented loudly (in Thai) to her about a very obese lady at Walmart.

Pom pooey maak maak la?

She tried to melt into the floor. She was the only person within 500 miles that understood what I was saying.

Shame on you! That's pretty bad form and rather childish, making fun of an obese person, even if you think they can't understand you. One day that could get you into trouble - assuming that no one can understand Thai. Even people with a very basic understanding of Thai know those words and who's to know she hasn't got a brother or another family member married to a Thai. How do you know she hasn't been on vacation here?

Edited July 27, 2015 by tropo

[SoiBiker]

Whoever pays, the customer, the franchisee or both, CP will make their profit!

When my wife takes my son, not quite 2 years old, to the local 7-11 he always asks for "shausage" .........

I wouldn't feed a dog on what they sell in those places, let alone a child.

[jaywalker]

7-11 exclusivity is not the same in Thailand as in other countries

There appears to be no protection for the franchisee from the company since the main 7-11 distributor appears to be able to compete directly wherever they want, exclusivity does not appear to be a requirement over here since it is obviously not enforced

I think you're right. In the US a franchisee buys a protected territory as he does with fast food, etc. On 7/11's US site there are disclaimers and asterisks making it clear that there aren't the same controls in other countries.

7/11 is very old and grew throughout the US. Now there are at least twice as many stores outside the US as there are in the US. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that 7/11 wishes it hadn't sold the rights it did and instead sold franchise rights to individuals to maintain control. If the investors in Thailand go belly up with some stores due to overcrowding, I guess that will be their problem and not that of the parent company.

Cheers.

My wife came to the US & was utterly flabbergasted that we had 7-11's also. She was quite certain they had been invented in Thailand.

The whole idea of the convenience store started here. They were originally open from 7:00 AM to 11:00 PM, hence the name. 7-11.

I was a very young kid but I remember the TV commercials in the early 70's when they first started.

She was a lot of fun to embarrass in Indiana. I once commented loudly (in Thai) to her about a very obese lady at Walmart.

Pom pooey maak maak la?

She tried to melt into the floor. She was the only person within 500 miles that understood what I was saying.

Shame on you! That's pretty bad form and rather childish, making fun of an obese person, even if you think they can't understand you. One day that could get you into trouble - assuming that no one can understand Thai. Even people with a very basic understanding of Thai know those words and who's to know she hasn't got a brother or another family member married to a Thai. How do you know she hasn't been on vacation here?

Guess I'm not very politically correct.

Oh well. I got's to be me.

[SoiBiker]

Political correctness has nothing to do with it - you insulted a stranger whilst simultaneously deliberately making your wife feel uncomfortable.

Classy.

[tropo]

Guess I'm not very politically correct.

Oh well. I got's to be me.

It's more about insulting an obese person - were you a schoolyard bully? Would you insult a blind person? A crippled person? A "very obese" person, as you described her, is a handicapped person.

Of course you "got's to be" you, but why brag about it here?

Edited July 27, 2015 by tropo

[jaywalker]

When I arrived in my village about ten years ago, there was only one small 7-11, now there is also a big 7-11, and a Tesco Lotus Express, I am the only Farang living in the

village, neither my wife nor her family eat Western food, yet someone, must be buying up the bread, snacks etc.

I know 7-11 sells lots of things besides food, but the bread sure goes very quickly in those shops.

My half Thai daughter, as soon as she became aware enough to recognize a loaf of bread at about 1 year old, would pitch a fit in the stores as soon as my wife tossed it in the grocery cart. She'd be sitting in said cart happily munching away on a piece we had pulled out of the bag for her as we went through the checkout.

I introduced my wife to black-eyed peas with ham hocks & crackling cornbread a long time ago.

She had never seen such a concoction.

I told her to try it. She's 1.5 meters, 4' 11" tall & 99 lbs/45kg.

She ate a GIANT plate of it, then fixed herself another GIANT plate of it.

20 minutes later she was on the couch with a tummy ache.

I guess it was revenge for my many som-tam encounters.

Edited July 27, 2015 by jaywalker

[recycler]

Whoever pays, the customer, the franchisee or both, CP will make their profit!

When my wife takes my son, not quite 2 years old, to the local 7-11 he always asks for "shausage" .........

I wouldn't feed a dog on what they sell in those places, let alone a child.

Just to compare, that sausage will cost you 3 to 4 times what a good brand sausage costs in western Europe. Than realize that CP owns the whole chain from the pigs food to the shop where the sausage is sold, their profits are beyond what you can imagine!

Why? Because there is no competition and these family companies rule the market and the whole country.