Second Scotland referendum 'inevitable'

[NoshowJones]

It's ok. The Irish didn't gain independence on the first go round either.

No, it took them about 800 years, then when the Irish War of Independence finished in 1921, it took until 1949 before it became a Republic.

That is why I'm ashamed to be Scottish, the Irish fought and died for their independence, the Scots could not even sign a piece of paper for theirs.

Very easy for you. As an EU member country citizen you have freedom of movement within the EU. You should be able to go to Ireland and follow the process to acquire Irish citizenship and then the flag you proudly display as your avatar can be really yours.

I'm sure no one in Scotland wants you to feel imprisoned or weighed down with Scottish citizenship. Maybe your ancestors were migrant workers a couple of hundred years ago so you might be returning to your roots.

I will just stay in Thailand for reasons well documented, and the proud Irish flag will always be my Avatar.

[NanLaew]

It's ok. The Irish didn't gain independence on the first go round either.

No, it took them about 800 years, then when the Irish War of Independence finished in 1921, it took until 1949 before it became a Republic.

That is why I'm ashamed to be Scottish, the Irish fought and died for their independence, the Scots could not even sign a piece of paper for theirs.

Very easy for you. As an EU member country citizen you have freedom of movement within the EU. You should be able to go to Ireland and follow the process to acquire Irish citizenship and then the flag you proudly display as your avatar can be really yours.

I'm sure no one in Scotland wants you to feel imprisoned or weighed down with Scottish citizenship. Maybe your ancestors were migrant workers a couple of hundred years ago so you might be returning to your roots.

I will just stay in Thailand for reasons well documented, and the proud Irish flag will always be my Avatar.

Scot in self-imposed exile in LOS that would vote UKIP if he could.

Hmmm.... must be the Irish in you.

[nontabury]

Never one to accept democracy when it does not fit in with his own ambitions for Scotland I would have expected no less.

His resignation after his failure and the previous result, which showed his politics and ambitions were not in accordance with the majority wishes of the people he feels he speaks for was short lived!

Of course he only accepts democracy when people vote how he wants. His giant ego and personal ambition to be Scotland's first president for life won't let him ever give up. Remember is initial reaction to loosing was to cry about cheating, unfair presentations of the facts etc. A despicable self-centered politician who couldn't really care less about the Scottish people or their future so long as he's "el presidente". And now his poisonous witch of a fairy is creating as much mischief as possible to stir things up and further the cause regardless of consequences.

Time this clown and his tinkerbell were dealt with. Someone needs to explain that 4.5 million people in Scotland aren't going to fcku about with the future of 65 million; or decide on the Union on their own; or continue to decide what happens in other parts of the Union.

If and when there is another "referendum" on the Union, I hope the incumbent government has the honesty, integrity and courage to give all UK citizens a say.

Let's not forget slimy salmond's 'cautious' prediction of the oil revenue from $113 a barrel.

An independent Scotland would resemble Greece by now.

100% correct.

[NoshowJones]

NanLaew. It's the people who vote for any of the two main parties who should be ashamed, can UKIP be any worse than them?

Especially Labour, look at the Immigration situation, don't mind Immigrants who have jobs, pay taxes, and don't require any handouts.

UKIP would put a stop to that, meanwhile the UK awaits the next Muslim atrocity.

[NongKhaiKid]

Never one to accept democracy when it does not fit in with his own ambitions for Scotland I would have expected no less.

His resignation after his failure and the previous result, which showed his politics and ambitions were not in accordance with the majority wishes of the people he feels he speaks for was short lived!

Of course he only accepts democracy when people vote how he wants. His giant ego and personal ambition to be Scotland's first president for life won't let him ever give up. Remember is initial reaction to loosing was to cry about cheating, unfair presentations of the facts etc. A despicable self-centered politician who couldn't really care less about the Scottish people or their future so long as he's "el presidente". And now his poisonous witch of a fairy is creating as much mischief as possible to stir things up and further the cause regardless of consequences.

Time this clown and his tinkerbell were dealt with. Someone needs to explain that 4.5 million people in Scotland aren't going to fcku about with the future of 65 million; or decide on the Union on their own; or continue to decide what happens in other parts of the Union.

If and when there is another "referendum" on the Union, I hope the incumbent government has the honesty, integrity and courage to give all UK citizens a say.

Let's not forget slimy salmond's 'cautious' prediction of the oil revenue from $113 a barrel.

An independent Scotland would resemble Greece by now.

100% correct.

well, many people get comfort thinking it would.

[JockPieandBeans]

What is the point of Scottish independence if they are just going to join the EU anyway?

Hardly independence if they just become a colony of the EU. And joining the EU would undoubtedly require them to join the Euro. Is that really an attractive proposition? You would have to be insane to join the Euro.

If they can go down the Iceland route of independence then I would applaud it, but otherwise they are simply jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

It is somewhat ironic that one of the many scare tactics used by the No campaign during the referendum was that Scotland would need to leave and reapply for EU membership which, according to Darling etc, would take years and likely be vetoed; now we are being told 'leave the UK and you will just be another EU vassal state'.

An independent Scotland would probably be required to apply and then wait to become an EU member. I doubt that it would be rejected though.

After a few years of gradual merging into the EU, Scotland would become a full EU member, adopt the Euro (whether the economy is suitable or not if Greece's inclusion is anything to go by) and indeed become just another EU vassal state.

You seem very certain about a sequence of events that even the most experienced politicians and commentators could not agree upon this time last year. Might I enquire as to the source of your insight?

You seem to be an advocate of Independence and being a member of the EU.

Might I enquire, by what thought process, you think that being a member of the EU would make a Country independent ?

As a Jock. I can fully understand the concept of being independent. For the life of me, I cannot fathom out how being a member of the EU equates to being independent.

[nontabury]

Let them have it, then rebuild Hadrians wall, followed by swiftly deporting all the Scottish MP's, and all the EU members that have settled in the UK.once we are out of that EU.club.thing

Just my 2 pence worth,

Would that include the Scott's who represent English constituats?

Contrast their numbers with the No of English people who represented a Scottish constituency B4 the last GE. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.

[JockPieandBeans]

I understand Jock, I don't know what is worse, being under Brussels or Britain.

The only hope in the future would have been voting UKIP, now I think it is too late for that.

Voting UKIP? Now there's something for a Jockinese to be ashamed of.

Any of my Jockinese brethren that voted UKIP should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

[nontabury]

Never one to accept democracy when it does not fit in with his own ambitions for Scotland I would have expected no less.

His resignation after his failure and the previous result, which showed his politics and ambitions were not in accordance with the majority wishes of the people he feels he speaks for was short lived!

Of course he only accepts democracy when people vote how he wants. His giant ego and personal ambition to be Scotland's first president for life won't let him ever give up. Remember is initial reaction to loosing was to cry about cheating, unfair presentations of the facts etc. A despicable self-centered politician who couldn't really care less about the Scottish people or their future so long as he's "el presidente". And now his poisonous witch of a fairy is creating as much mischief as possible to stir things up and further the cause regardless of consequences.

Time this clown and his tinkerbell were dealt with. Someone needs to explain that 4.5 million people in Scotland aren't going to fcku about with the future of 65 million; or decide on the Union on their own; or continue to decide what happens in other parts of the Union.

If and when there is another "referendum" on the Union, I hope the incumbent government has the honesty, integrity and courage to give all UK citizens a say.

OK, you are either mistaken or lying openly - Salmond made no such claim of cheating after the referendum, but hey, don't let the truth get in the way of your smear.

And I think you will find that WHEN we Scots want to leave the union, we won't be asking you for permission.

But a referendum indicated that you did not want to.

Let us hope next time the concept is better planned......... because if you plan to retain the currency, for one, you should be seeking some form of permission from the current government.

At the moment I suspect a lot of English people would support the idea too.

In the NO vote how many were actually Scots as the eligibility criteria was heavily loaded so people living in Scotland but who were not born there and had no emotional ties could vote but expat Scots were excluded ?

How many of those non-Scots fully understood the issues and how many of the Europeans etc will leave when they've made enough money with no concern as it isn't their country ?

Strange that.So why did the SNP make such great play of the fact that so many of those non Scottish voters would in fact vote yes.

[nontabury]

I understand Jock, I don't know what is worse, being under Brussels or Britain.

The only hope in the future would have been voting UKIP, now I think it is too late for that.

Voting UKIP? Now there's something for a Jockinese to be ashamed of.

Any of my Jockinese brethren that voted UKIP should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Many Scott's do support the UKIP,that is why out of 6 Eu MP's one is UKIP. This is in spite of the Nationalist blackshirt intimidating those who showed their support for independence from the EU.

[NoshowJones]

I understand Jock, I don't know what is worse, being under Brussels or Britain.

The only hope in the future would have been voting UKIP, now I think it is too late for that.

Voting UKIP? Now there's something for a Jockinese to be ashamed of.

Any of my Jockinese brethren that voted UKIP should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

I have not voted for UKIP, I am referring to England, and I say that anyone who lives anywhere in the UK who votes for any of the two main parties deserve all they get.

The English people don't have much of a choice outside of the two main parties, and if I was English I would be voting UKIP.

For me it would have been an independent Scotland all the way, but I would now be concerned about Scotland being part of the EU

and having to use the Euro.

[JockPieandBeans]

Any of my Jockinese brethren that voted UKIP should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Many Scott's do support the UKIP,that is why out of 6 Eu MP's one is UKIP. This is in spite of the Nationalist blackshirt intimidating those who showed their support for independence from the EU.

Its Scot's nontabury

People are free to support whomever they like.

I actually believe that UKIP were 100% correct on their controlled immigration policy. However, one trick ponies do not really cut it for me.

Called me old fashioned, but I firmly believe that those who are elected to represent the people, should do exactly that. Due to their position, they should also be whiter than white.

Sadly, as 1000's of events have shown, that isn't and under the current system the case.

That is why none of them would ever get my vote.

[JockPieandBeans]

I have not voted for UKIP, I am referring to England, and I say that anyone who lives anywhere in the UK who votes for any of the two main parties deserve all they get.

The English people don't have much of a choice outside of the two main parties, and if I was English I would be voting UKIP.

For me it would have been an independent Scotland all the way, but I would now be concerned about Scotland being part of the EU

and having to use the Euro.

Possum.

The voting system is rigged. It is only ever going to benefit the 2 main Parties.

That is not going to change in our lifetime.

The SNP and its supporters, need to stop blaming other Parties for the failure in getting a YES vote.

The fault lies in one place and one place only. Firmly on the doorstep of the SNP. They had an historic chance to create an Independent Scotland, something that they had been planning for over 70 years.

They failed miserably. Why did they fail ? SOS. Soundbites over Substance.

[NoshowJones]

I have not voted for UKIP, I am referring to England, and I say that anyone who lives anywhere in the UK who votes for any of the two main parties deserve all they get.

The English people don't have much of a choice outside of the two main parties, and if I was English I would be voting UKIP.

For me it would have been an independent Scotland all the way, but I would now be concerned about Scotland being part of the EU

and having to use the Euro.

Possum.

The voting system is rigged. It is only ever going to benefit the 2 main Parties.

That is not going to change in our lifetime.

The SNP and its supporters, need to stop blaming other Parties for the failure in getting a YES vote.

The fault lies in one place and one place only. Firmly on the doorstep of the SNP. They had an historic chance to create an Independent Scotland, something that they had been planning for over 70 years.

They failed miserably. Why did they fail ? SOS. Soundbites over Substance.

[NoshowJones]

I have not voted for UKIP, I am referring to England, and I say that anyone who lives anywhere in the UK who votes for any of the two main parties deserve all they get.

The English people don't have much of a choice outside of the two main parties, and if I was English I would be voting UKIP.

For me it would have been an independent Scotland all the way, but I would now be concerned about Scotland being part of the EU

and having to use the Euro.

Possum.

The voting system is rigged. It is only ever going to benefit the 2 main Parties.

That is not going to change in our lifetime.

The SNP and its supporters, need to stop blaming other Parties for the failure in getting a YES vote.

The fault lies in one place and one place only. Firmly on the doorstep of the SNP. They had an historic chance to create an Independent Scotland, something that they had been planning for over 70 years.

They failed miserably. Why did they fail ? SOS. Soundbites over Substance.

I think the main reason they failed was because the big guns came up here and scared the voters with things like "an independent Scotland cannot use the pound"etc.

[JockPieandBeans]

Possum.

The voting system is rigged. It is only ever going to benefit the 2 main Parties.

That is not going to change in our lifetime.

The SNP and its supporters, need to stop blaming other Parties for the failure in getting a YES vote.

The fault lies in one place and one place only. Firmly on the doorstep of the SNP. They had an historic chance to create an Independent Scotland, something that they had been planning for over 70 years.

They failed miserably. Why did they fail ? SOS. Soundbites over Substance.

I think the main reason they failed was because the big guns came up here and scared the voters with things like "an independent Scotland cannot use the pound"etc.

That was merely the icing on the cake.

The result should have been a forgone conclusion well before that. After all, the SNP had 70 odd years to get their ducks in a row.

[RuamRudy]

Never one to accept democracy when it does not fit in with his own ambitions for Scotland I would have expected no less.

His resignation after his failure and the previous result, which showed his politics and ambitions were not in accordance with the majority wishes of the people he feels he speaks for was short lived!

Of course he only accepts democracy when people vote how he wants. His giant ego and personal ambition to be Scotland's first president for life won't let him ever give up. Remember is initial reaction to loosing was to cry about cheating, unfair presentations of the facts etc. A despicable self-centered politician who couldn't really care less about the Scottish people or their future so long as he's "el presidente". And now his poisonous witch of a fairy is creating as much mischief as possible to stir things up and further the cause regardless of consequences.

Time this clown and his tinkerbell were dealt with. Someone needs to explain that 4.5 million people in Scotland aren't going to fcku about with the future of 65 million; or decide on the Union on their own; or continue to decide what happens in other parts of the Union.

If and when there is another "referendum" on the Union, I hope the incumbent government has the honesty, integrity and courage to give all UK citizens a say.

OK, you are either mistaken or lying openly - Salmond made no such claim of cheating after the referendum, but hey, don't let the truth get in the way of your smear.

And I think you will find that WHEN we Scots want to leave the union, we won't be asking you for permission.

But a referendum indicated that you did not want to.

Let us hope next time the concept is better planned......... because if you plan to retain the currency, for one, you should be seeking some form of permission from the current government.

At the moment I suspect a lot of English people would support the idea too.

I struggle to see how the concept is so confusing for many people - Scotland is an equal partner in the UK. Therefore Scotland is the current government, as is England, Wales and Northern Ireland. A union of countries owns the pound. It does not belong to any one of those countries.

[teatree]

What is the point of Scottish independence if they are just going to join the EU anyway?

Hardly independence if they just become a colony of the EU. And joining the EU would undoubtedly require them to join the Euro. Is that really an attractive proposition? You would have to be insane to join the Euro.

If they can go down the Iceland route of independence then I would applaud it, but otherwise they are simply jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

It is somewhat ironic that one of the many scare tactics used by the No campaign during the referendum was that Scotland would need to leave and reapply for EU membership which, according to Darling etc, would take years and likely be vetoed; now we are being told 'leave the UK and you will just be another EU vassal state'.

An independent Scotland would probably be required to apply and then wait to become an EU member. I doubt that it would be rejected though.

After a few years of gradual merging into the EU, Scotland would become a full EU member, adopt the Euro (whether the economy is suitable or not if Greece's inclusion is anything to go by) and indeed become just another EU vassal state.

You seem very certain about a sequence of events that even the most experienced politicians and commentators could not agree upon this time last year. Might I enquire as to the source of your insight?

The words 'probably' and 'doubt' in my post hardly convey certainty.

The source of my insight is logic.

The EU is expansionist. It wants the UK to remain in the EU, it wants to expand to cover countries such as Turkey, and it would want an independent Scotland to join too. To say that Scotland would be barred from entry goes against how the EU has behaved over the last 60 odd years, when it has gone from a simple common market for coal and steel with only 6 memebers, to a political and economic union with 28 members on the brink of becoming a fully federal bloc.

There may be scare mongering (just as there was in the recent Greek referendum) that Scotland would be vetoed but that is just posturing. The EU, like any empire, wants to expand.

There is a question of whether Scotland would want to join the EU, but the SNP is pretty Europhile and an application for membership is highly likely.

The one thing that is certain is that should Scotland join the EU and Euro, it would cede political and economic sovereignty and become 'just another vassal state'.

[RuamRudy]

An independent Scotland would resemble Greece by now.

100% correct.

well, many people get comfort thinking it would.

Ironic, isn't it. We hear so many stories about chippy Scots with grudges and hatred for the English. But when you ask for an example of such a person, none are to be found, barring the odd nutter in a tam-o-shanter. HOWEVER, the amount of hatred flowing from England to Scotland is relentless. If anyone doesn't believe me, take a look at any edition of the Daily Mail or Telegraph, their online forums etc. Any time there is a story even remotely connected with Scotland, the Scots haters will be falling over themselves to denigrate our people and our country, yet we are characterised as the bitter ones.

[RuamRudy]

An independent Scotland would probably be required to apply and then wait to become an EU member. I doubt that it would be rejected though.

After a few years of gradual merging into the EU, Scotland would become a full EU member, adopt the Euro (whether the economy is suitable or not if Greece's inclusion is anything to go by) and indeed become just another EU vassal state.

You seem very certain about a sequence of events that even the most experienced politicians and commentators could not agree upon this time last year. Might I enquire as to the source of your insight?

You seem to be an advocate of Independence and being a member of the EU.

Might I enquire, by what thought process, you think that being a member of the EU would make a Country independent ?

As a Jock. I can fully understand the concept of being independent. For the life of me, I cannot fathom out how being a member of the EU equates to being independent.

Is the UK not an independent country now? We may be signed up to myriad treaties and conventions, but that has always been the case, going back hundreds of years. I am not saying that the EU is without its faults, but I see the benefits far outweighing the flaws.

[JockPieandBeans]

Ironic, isn't it. We hear so many stories about chippy Scots with grudges and hatred for the English. But when you ask for an example of such a person, none are to be found, barring the odd nutter in a tam-o-shanter

Some of us wore a TOS proudly for 22 years.

I am sure that every Scottish Infantry Regiment would be absolutely delighted to invite you for a beer.

[RuamRudy]

I have not voted for UKIP, I am referring to England, and I say that anyone who lives anywhere in the UK who votes for any of the two main parties deserve all they get.

The English people don't have much of a choice outside of the two main parties, and if I was English I would be voting UKIP.

For me it would have been an independent Scotland all the way, but I would now be concerned about Scotland being part of the EU

and having to use the Euro.

Possum.

The voting system is rigged. It is only ever going to benefit the 2 main Parties.

That is not going to change in our lifetime.

The SNP and its supporters, need to stop blaming other Parties for the failure in getting a YES vote.

The fault lies in one place and one place only. Firmly on the doorstep of the SNP. They had an historic chance to create an Independent Scotland, something that they had been planning for over 70 years.

They failed miserably. Why did they fail ? SOS. Soundbites over Substance.

Do you really think they failed? They were up against all 3 mainstream parties, all but 2 news agencies, the BBC showing clear, non-stop bias, supposedly independent government departments, foreign heads of state, the Queen - and yet a 5% swing would have been enough. They may have lost the battle but they did tremendously in the war - enough that they routed every other party in May, and show no sign of reversing that trend.

[JockPieandBeans]

You seem to be an advocate of Independence and being a member of the EU.

Might I enquire, by what thought process, you think that being a member of the EU would make a Country independent ?

As a Jock. I can fully understand the concept of being independent. For the life of me, I cannot fathom out how being a member of the EU equates to being independent.

Is the UK not an independent country now? We may be signed up to myriad treaties and conventions, but that has always been the case, going back hundreds of years. I am not saying that the EU is without its faults, but I see the benefits far outweighing the flaws.

I said on another thread that I had no wish to embarrass you.

I had no need to. You are clearly intent on doing that for yourself.

THE UK IS NOT A COUNTRY.

[RuamRudy]

The one thing that is certain is that should Scotland join the EU and Euro, it would cede political and economic sovereignty and become 'just another vassal state'.

The one thing that is certain is that if both of these uncertainties occur, then something else may happen? Great analysis there.

[RuamRudy]

Ironic, isn't it. We hear so many stories about chippy Scots with grudges and hatred for the English. But when you ask for an example of such a person, none are to be found, barring the odd nutter in a tam-o-shanter

Some of us wore a TOS proudly for 22 years.

I am sure that every Scottish Infantry Regiment would be absolutely delighted to invite you for a beer.

Get over yourself and your semantics - you know exactly what I mean.

[RuamRudy]

You seem to be an advocate of Independence and being a member of the EU.

Might I enquire, by what thought process, you think that being a member of the EU would make a Country independent ?

As a Jock. I can fully understand the concept of being independent. For the life of me, I cannot fathom out how being a member of the EU equates to being independent.

Is the UK not an independent country now? We may be signed up to myriad treaties and conventions, but that has always been the case, going back hundreds of years. I am not saying that the EU is without its faults, but I see the benefits far outweighing the flaws.

I said on another thread that I had no wish to embarrass you.

I had no need to. You are clearly intent on doing that for yourself.

THE UK IS NOT A COUNTRY.

Have you reached the extent of your ability to contribute when this is the sort of post you write? Forget a cogent argument and just post a pedantic and unproductive piece of fluff, then sit back with a smug look on your face?

[JockPieandBeans]

With the level of intelligence and understanding that you bring to this thread.

I can only conclude.

It is time for you to go home.

[RuamRudy]

With the level of intelligence and understanding that you bring to this thread.

I can only conclude.

stock-photo-close-shot-of-stirling-bridge-with-wallace-monument-in-the-background-136539818.jpg

It is time for you to go home.

Yes, you keep saying this, but you have played this defence too often over the past few days. Please, add substance rather than reverting to your pavlovian answer. Simply repeating yourself doesn't make you right.

[FritsSikkink]

Last time I wanted the Scots to remain united with the rest of us, but it seems the SNP wont be happy till their going it alone. I hope they leave this time and it might stop them whinging.

I seem to recall that Before the referendum, A Salmonds stated they in the event of a no vote, there Should not be another attempt for a generation, meaning 30-35 yrs

Yes, that was before England broke all his election promisses.

[JockPieandBeans]

With the level of intelligence and understanding that you bring to this thread.

I can only conclude.

stock-photo-close-shot-of-stirling-bridge-with-wallace-monument-in-the-background-136539818.jpg

It is time for you to go home.

Yes, you keep saying this, but you have played this defence too often over the past few days. Please, add substance rather than reverting to your pavlovian answer. Simply repeating yourself doesn't make you right.

Correct.

Your above posts make me right.