Relatives demand justice for victims of 2010 crackdown

[webfact]

Relatives demand justice for victims of 2010 crackdown
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- RELATIVES of people killed in the 2010 crackdown gathered at the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) yesterday to demand justice.

Many held up signs with messages such as "The dead still await justice". The group also handed in a letter listing their demands.

Ubonwadee Chan, a representative of the group, said they were concerned that the investigation into then-PM Abhisit Vejjajiva and his then-deputy Suthep Thaugsuban - who was director of the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation - had started to stagnate.

"I want [NACC commissioner] Vicha [Mahakun] to give priority to this case so the victims can finally have justice and peace can return to the country," she said.

She also urged the NACC to take into account details on body identification and a fact-finding report on the crackdown compiled by the Senate and House of Representatives.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Relatives-demand-justice-for-victims-of-2010-crack-30265368.html


-- The Nation 2015-07-28

[englishoak]

Not a chance of that happening.

[tbthailand]

Not a chance of that happening.

no, given who was in charge of the army then and who is in charge of the country now, not a snowball's chance...

[ezzra]

The sad part of all this situation that by now, no one really sure what went on there, there so many versions

of the so called ' truth ' and so many fingers pointing at all directions, the real truth will never be known,

And if there's someone out there who knows what really went on there, he's not talking and will never talk....

Edited July 28, 2015 by ezzra

[MaxLee]

Mai pen rai, it will be dragged out next ten years.

[jacky54]

Should read murder not crckdown

[z42]

Should read murder not crckdown

Utter BS, the only reason the army were called in the first place was because many of the red shirts armed themselves with an array of weapons, add to that a number of affiliated persons had resorted to terrorist tactics to have their super tailored demands met.

I personally have little sympathy for those who were shot and killed, obviously the temple shootings are a different kettle of fish and I believe the families of those victims do deserve a better explanation.

And weren't many of the bereaved families also compensated handsomely already by ptp back in 2011?

[bamnutsak]

Better to forget about "history", and return to happiness and reconciliation.

Of course part of reconciliation is that both sides need to acknowledge their wrong-doings, but can't see that happening.

[rubl]

Amnesty for all except Abhisit and Suthep of course. Justice as 'WE' want to have it seen.

Nothing really new.

[EnglishJohn]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

[tbthailand]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

I'm pretty sure that the army didn't want them investigated either...

[robblok]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

Of course they don't wonder about stuff like that, that might make them look at their leaders for setting up this violence.

Sure the army made mistakes and people should be punished, but never forget why the violence started.

There was an agreement between the protesters and the democrats, but all of a sudden it was cancelled and the blackshirts started to shoot and then the army responded.

If there were no guns and bombs then there would not have been a bloody crackdown, so PTP leaders incl Thaksin are guilty too.

[Linky]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

No because in general people who are personally involved with an agenda don't think clearly and don't look at facts. Else they would have realized their leaders were the ones who orchestrated the bloodbath by canceling the agreement that was there with the government about stopping the demonstrations for early elections.

If that is the case then rule on it. Thats What the family have asked for, an investigation to be completed and ruled upon, not just sit idly by and hope it is forgotten.

[tbthailand]

Should read murder not crckdown

Utter BS, the only reason the army were called in the first place was because many of the red shirts armed themselves with an array of weapons, add to that a number of affiliated persons had resorted to terrorist tactics to have their super tailored demands met.

I personally have little sympathy for those who were shot and killed, obviously the temple shootings are a different kettle of fish and I believe the families of those victims do deserve a better explanation.

And weren't many of the bereaved families also compensated handsomely already by ptp back in 2011?

no, actually murder would be a more appropriate word...

over 50 people killed during the crackdown in what, 5-6 days, and one of them was a soldier - unfortunately for him, killed by friendly fire...

and out of curiosity, what counts as "handsome compensation" to you if the army killed your son or daughter?

[tbthailand]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

Of course they don't wonder about stuff like that, that might make them look at their leaders for setting up this violence.

Sure the army made mistakes and people should be punished, but never forget why the violence started.

There was an agreement between the protesters and the democrats, but all of a sudden it was cancelled and the blackshirts started to shoot and then the army responded.

If there were no guns and bombs then there would not have been a bloody crackdown, so PTP leaders incl Thaksin are guilty too.

it was cancelled and the blackshirts started to shoot and then the army responded.

it's not a minor detail to point out that the scenario you typed above is not the way it happened...

[Down the rabbit hole]

Should read murder not crckdown

Utter BS, the only reason the army were called in the first place was because many of the red shirts armed themselves with an array of weapons, add to that a number of affiliated persons had resorted to terrorist tactics to have their super tailored demands met.

I personally have little sympathy for those who were shot and killed, obviously the temple shootings are a different kettle of fish and I believe the families of those victims do deserve a better explanation.

And weren't many of the bereaved families also compensated handsomely already by ptp back in 2011?

The Thai strategy of creating confusion, blurring the edges and general obfuscation seems to have wortked with you. There is no evidence at all of the so-called 'men in black' or of any crime committed by the 'red-shirts', other than supportitng that of fighting against the privileged status-quo - which the amaat consider a crime but which reasonable people do not.

I would guess that the only reason you claim to believe the above BS is because it was said by someone wou wanted to believe in for whatever reason, or someone whom you wanted to think you believed in them for whatever reason, as opposed to actually thinking about it, considering the evidence and trying to understand more than a unilateral view. Many foreigners fall into the trap. it usually because deep down they want to believe in the various Thai-generated fictions about Thais.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, don't believe convenient fictions, if you are non-Thai you likely have a better education than Thais, it would be good if more foreigners stopped listening to the shallow and obvious Thai propaganda,. That way the Thai 'pooyay' don't carry on thinking that foreigners are all stupid, which *is* what they believe.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Down the rabbit hole

[robblok]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

Of course they don't wonder about stuff like that, that might make them look at their leaders for setting up this violence.

Sure the army made mistakes and people should be punished, but never forget why the violence started.

There was an agreement between the protesters and the democrats, but all of a sudden it was cancelled and the blackshirts started to shoot and then the army responded.

If there were no guns and bombs then there would not have been a bloody crackdown, so PTP leaders incl Thaksin are guilty too.

it was cancelled and the blackshirts started to shoot and then the army responded.

it's not a minor detail to point out that the scenario you typed above is not the way it happened...

What is your version.. even red sources talk about the blackshirts throwing grenades and such. That was before the army stepped in.

[Down the rabbit hole]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

Oh please. Stop the record, you're merely repeating what some Thai thought you were stupid enough to believe. And evidently they were right. The tragedy is they will hold up your gullibility as evidence that all foreigners are stupid, which they're not.

You are undermining the credibility of your countrymen (and all non-Thais) by just parroting this BS.

[z42]

Should read murder not crckdown

Utter BS, the only reason the army were called in the first place was because many of the red shirts armed themselves with an array of weapons, add to that a number of affiliated persons had resorted to terrorist tactics to have their super tailored demands met.

I personally have little sympathy for those who were shot and killed, obviously the temple shootings are a different kettle of fish and I believe the families of those victims do deserve a better explanation.

And weren't many of the bereaved families also compensated handsomely already by ptp back in 2011?

no, actually murder would be a more appropriate word...

over 50 people killed during the crackdown in what, 5-6 days, and one of them was a soldier - unfortunately for him, killed by friendly fire...

and out of curiosity, what counts as "handsome compensation" to you if the army killed your son or daughter?

How would it be a more appropriate word. If both sides have guns then frankly the murder label is frankly wrong, and libelous in the extreme.

Not trying to points score, but what about the soldier who was killed by blunt force trauma earlier in the demonstrations near khao san road / democracy monument?

Also the sums received are all relative. These people are Thai and the 7million baht they were awarded is enough to buy multiple cars, houses and to live well for many years (the security that many parents seek anyways here).

It would be similar to a payout in the hundreds of thousands, even millions in the UK. Ample enough monetarily speaking.

The emotional anguish obviously is much more difficult to comprehend

[Down the rabbit hole]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

Of course they don't wonder about stuff like that, that might make them look at their leaders for setting up this violence.

Sure the army made mistakes and people should be punished, but never forget why the violence started.

There was an agreement between the protesters and the democrats, but all of a sudden it was cancelled and the blackshirts started to shoot and then the army responded.

If there were no guns and bombs then there would not have been a bloody crackdown, so PTP leaders incl Thaksin are guilty too.

it was cancelled and the blackshirts started to shoot and then the army responded.

it's not a minor detail to point out that the scenario you typed above is not the way it happened...

It is however what the army and its sycophants and apologists want people to think is the way it happened.

There's nothing in the world worse than being willingly hoodwinked by con-men.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Down the rabbit hole

[z42]

Should read murder not crckdown

Utter BS, the only reason the army were called in the first place was because many of the red shirts armed themselves with an array of weapons, add to that a number of affiliated persons had resorted to terrorist tactics to have their super tailored demands met.

I personally have little sympathy for those who were shot and killed, obviously the temple shootings are a different kettle of fish and I believe the families of those victims do deserve a better explanation.

And weren't many of the bereaved families also compensated handsomely already by ptp back in 2011?

The Thai strategy of creating confusion, blurring the edges and general obfuscation seems to have wortked with you. There is no evidence at all of the so-called 'men in black' or of any crime committed by the 'red-shirts', other than supportitng that of fighting against the privileged status-quo - which the amaat consider a crime but which reasonable people do not.

I would guess that the only reason you claim to believe the above BS is because it was said by someone wou wanted to believe in for whatever reason, or someone whom you wanted to think you believed in them for whatever reason, as opposed to actually thinking about it, considering the evidence and trying to understand more than a unilateral view. Many foreigners fall into the trap. it usually because deep down they want to believe in the various Thai-generated fictions about Thais.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, don't believe convenient fictions, if you are non-Thai you likely have a better education than Thais, it would be good if more foreigners stopped listening to the shallow and obvious Thai propaganda,. That way the Thai 'pooyay' don't carry on thinking that foreigners are all stupid, which *is* what they believe.

No evidence the men in black existed. This comprehensive review from human rights watch (very impartial and if anything leaning towards the reds' cause) documents that the men in black were in fact interviewed and even goes as far as to get pictoral evidence of them and some background of the weapons they were using and even their military backgrounds / ideological make up.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2011/05/03/descent-chaos/thailands-2010-red-shirt-protests-and-government-crackdown

[Baerboxer]

Amnesty for all except Abhisit and Suthep of course. Justice as 'WE' want to have it seen.

Nothing really new.

Spot on.

The people telling them who must be guilty, and how justice should look are probably the same people who conned and cajoled their relatives to be there in the first place. The same people who knew the armed red and black shirts and increased violence would provoke a military response.

They don't want justice. The want people they've been told are guilty punished.

Nothing new at all.

And those who orchestrated and pulled all the stings - nothing at all.

[Baerboxer]

Should read murder not crckdown

Utter BS, the only reason the army were called in the first place was because many of the red shirts armed themselves with an array of weapons, add to that a number of affiliated persons had resorted to terrorist tactics to have their super tailored demands met.

I personally have little sympathy for those who were shot and killed, obviously the temple shootings are a different kettle of fish and I believe the families of those victims do deserve a better explanation.

And weren't many of the bereaved families also compensated handsomely already by ptp back in 2011?

The Thai strategy of creating confusion, blurring the edges and general obfuscation seems to have wortked with you. There is no evidence at all of the so-called 'men in black' or of any crime committed by the 'red-shirts', other than supportitng that of fighting against the privileged status-quo - which the amaat consider a crime but which reasonable people do not.

I would guess that the only reason you claim to believe the above BS is because it was said by someone wou wanted to believe in for whatever reason, or someone whom you wanted to think you believed in them for whatever reason, as opposed to actually thinking about it, considering the evidence and trying to understand more than a unilateral view. Many foreigners fall into the trap. it usually because deep down they want to believe in the various Thai-generated fictions about Thais.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, don't believe convenient fictions, if you are non-Thai you likely have a better education than Thais, it would be good if more foreigners stopped listening to the shallow and obvious Thai propaganda,. That way the Thai 'pooyay' don't carry on thinking that foreigners are all stupid, which *is* what they believe.

No evidence the men in black existed. This comprehensive review from human rights watch (very impartial and if anything leaning towards the reds' cause) documents that the men in black were in fact interviewed and even goes as far as to get pictoral evidence of them and some background of the weapons they were using and even their military backgrounds / ideological make up.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2011/05/03/descent-chaos/thailands-2010-red-shirt-protests-and-government-crackdown

He prefers to lie. After all, Chalerm said there were no men in black, never ever. And his propensity for the truth is well known too.

[Baerboxer]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

Oh please. Stop the record, you're merely repeating what some Thai thought you were stupid enough to believe. And evidently they were right. The tragedy is they will hold up your gullibility as evidence that all foreigners are stupid, which they're not.

You are undermining the credibility of your countrymen (and all non-Thais) by just parroting this BS.

Someone who doesn't lap up the Shin version of reality like yourself isn't stupid or gullible.

Why you choose to believe their outright lies, distortions and political propaganda is known only to you,

Still want to pretend the MIB didn't exist?

[Baerboxer]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

I'm pretty sure that the army didn't want them investigated either...

In much the same way Thaksin never wanted Abhisit or Suthep to actually appear in court either.

[halloween]

I await Yingluk being made to pay back the public money she squandered on her brother's useful fools. Then at least on of the myths of the Shinawatra's parting with their personal fortune to help Thais will be true.

[jayboy]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

Almost certainly not because such ludicrous fantasies are restricted to those who by choice or innate denseness have no connection with reality, simply blind obedience to a reactionary path.

I have little doubt equally that on the redshirt side there are similar deranged people who pursue a narrative on the lines you have detailed.

But truth is rarely pure and never simple.The version of the truth in which Abhisit, Suthep and the generals are wronged innocents is as crazy as that of the most fervent and deluded redshirt.As it happens there is a decent if not perfect report on these events from HRW.It makes it quite clear there was an armed element on the redshirt side.However it is equally clear there was murderous and incompetent behaviour on the part of the Thai army.

Nobody has ever been brought to account including the politicians who presided over the debacle.

The MIB remain as mysterious as ever.

[EnglishJohn]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

I'm pretty sure that the army didn't want them investigated either...

Well, as long as you are sure, it must be true.

I can't argue against evidence like that.

[than]

During Yingluck regime, her government didn't make any move for the true, despite fact evidence and report and criticism from HRW(1/The Human Rights Watch report that covered the April and May deaths also concluded that men in black were active and very much among the Red Shirts; 2/ At the same time, the status of investigations into alleged crimes by UDD-linked “Black Shirt” militants remains unclear. A number of those accused of violence against soldiers, police officers, and anti-UDD groups were released on bail with the expectation they would not be prosecuted. The UDD leadership and their supporters, including those holding positions in the government and the parliament, dismissed the TRCT findings and asserted that there were no armed elements within the UDD during the events of 2010. HRW WORLD REPORT THAILAND YEARS 2012,2013,2014), her government didn't investigate on the real cause of this tragedy : the presence Armed terrorist element in red shirts rankings.....

Seh Daeng recognize during an BBC interview that he train "ronin" for harass security forces and have a military wing for red movement (3/ In one recent interview he openly declared that he had 300 armed men trained for "close encounter" and armed with M79 grenade launchers. In other interviews he denied he was the leader of the military wing of the UDD. When a senior military officer was killed by sniper fire on 10 April, he told the media that it was the work of a shadowy unit supporting Thaksin inside the military, dubbed the Ronin Warriors (a reference to the era of Samurai warriors in Japan). He strongly denied he was the leader of this death squad, but confirmed government claims that it existed. THE GUARDIAN )...... after this revelation many red leaders distanced themselves from him ......

Edited July 28, 2015 by than

[lovetotravel]

I wonder if these people would accept the explanation that their relatives were killed because someone put them between MIB and soldiers on purpose to try and incite an uprising by the resultant bloodbath.

These people are not interested in the truth. They have been programmed by red-shirt propaganda that Abhisit and Suthep are guilty and that is the only 'justice' they will ever accept.

I wonder if any red-shirt has wondered why Chalerm made it official policy that the MIB did not exist and nobody (including the DSI) were allowed to mention or investigate them.

Of course they don't wonder about stuff like that, that might make them look at their leaders for setting up this violence.

Sure the army made mistakes and people should be punished, but never forget why the violence started.

There was an agreement between the protesters and the democrats, but all of a sudden it was cancelled and the blackshirts started to shoot and then the army responded.

If there were no guns and bombs then there would not have been a bloody crackdown, so PTP leaders incl Thaksin are guilty too.

it was cancelled and the blackshirts started to shoot and then the army responded.

it's not a minor detail to point out that the scenario you typed above is not the way it happened...

It is however what the army and its sycophants and apologists want people to think is the way it happened.

There's nothing in the world worse than being willingly hoodwinked by con-men.

Con men are on both sides of the political spectrum. Thailand will be better off when everybody accepts this.

Responsibility lies with those who started this protest. Those who asked innocent civilians to bring empty bottles so they could be filled with gasoline to burn Bangkok to the ground. Oh, and paid them to do so.