US: Boy Scout board approves end to blanket ban on gay adults

[webfact]

Boy Scout board approves end to blanket ban on gay adults
By DAVID CRARY

NEW YORK (AP) — The Boy Scouts of America on Monday ended its blanket ban on gay adult leaders while allowing church-sponsored Scout units to maintain the exclusion for religious reasons.

The new policy, aimed at easing a controversy that has embroiled the Boy Scouts for years, takes effect immediately. It was approved by the BSA's National Executive Board on a 45-12 vote during a closed-to-the-media teleconference.

"For far too long this issue has divided and distracted us," said the BSA's president, former Defense Secretary Robert Gates. "Now it's time to unite behind our shared belief in the extraordinary power of Scouting to be a force for good."

The stage had been set for Monday's action on May 21, when Gates told the Scouts' national meeting that the long-standing ban on participation by openly gay adults was no longer sustainable. He said the ban was likely to be the target of lawsuits that the Scouts likely would lose.

Two weeks ago, the new policy was approved unanimously by the BSA's 17-member National Executive Committee. It would allow local Scout units to select adult leaders without regard to sexual orientation — a stance that several Scout councils have already adopted in defiance of the official national policy.

In 2013, after heated internal debate, the BSA decided to allow openly gay youth as scouts, but not gay adults as leaders. Several denominations that collectively sponsor close to half of all Scout units — including the Roman Catholic church, the Mormon church and the Southern Baptist Convention — have been apprehensive about ending the ban on gay adults.

The BSA's top leaders have pledged to defend the right of any church-sponsored units to continue excluding gays as adult volunteers. But that assurance has not satisfied some conservative church leaders,'

"It's hard for me to believe, in the long term, that the Boy Scouts will allow religious groups to have the freedom to choose their own leaders," said the Rev. Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission.

"In recent years I have seen a definite cooling on the part of Baptist churches toward the Scouts," Moore said. "This will probably bring that cooling to a freeze."

Under the BSA's new policy:

—Prospective employees of the national organization could no longer be denied a staff position on the basis of sexual orientation.

—Gay leaders who were previously removed from Scouting because of the ban would have the opportunity to reapply for volunteer positions.

—If otherwise qualified, a gay adult would be eligible to serve as a Scoutmaster or unit leader.

Gates, who became the BSA's president in May 2014, said at the time that he personally would have favored ending the ban on gay adults, but he opposed any further debate after the Scouts' policymaking body upheld the ban. In May, however, he said that recent events "have confronted us with urgent challenges I did not foresee and which we cannot ignore."

He cited an announcement by the BSA's New York City chapter in early April that it had hired Pascal Tessier, the nation's first openly gay Eagle Scout, as a summer camp leader. Gates also cited broader gay-rights developments and warned that rigidly maintaining the ban "will be the end of us as a national movement."

The BSA faced potential lawsuits in New York and other states if it continued to enforce its ban, which had been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000. Since then, the exclusionary policy has prompted numerous major corporations to suspend charitable donations to the Scouts, and has strained relations with some municipalities that cover gays in their non-discrimination codes.

Stuart Upton, a lawyer for the LGBT-rights group Lambda Legal, questioned whether the BSA's new policy to let church-sponsored units continue to exclude gay adults would be sustainable.

"There will be a period of time where they'll have some legal protection," Upton said. "But that doesn't mean the lawsuits won't keep coming. ... They will become increasingly marginalized from the direction society is going."

Like several other major youth organizations, the Boy Scouts have experienced a membership decline in recent decades. Current membership, according to the BSA, is about 2.4 million boys and about 1 million adults.

After the 2013 decision to admit gay youth, some conservatives split from the BSA to form a new group, Trail Life USA, which has created its own ranks, badges and uniforms. The group claims a membership of more than 25,000 youths and adults.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-07-28

[CMNightRider]

I'm sure they will make great role models for the boy scouts.

[Guitar God]

I think a blanket ban on gay adults in leadership roles in the Boy Scouts is stupid.

I think whether they're allowed in the organization depends on the individual, and what they're using the blanket for.

[Guitar God]

I fairly large percentage of teachers in the large high school were gay. They were just fine role models

I'm sure they will make great role models for the boy scouts.

[Lissos]

I don't know what the U.S version is like but I was a member of Cubs and Scouts in the 80s and don't remember official overt indoctrination about what are correct or incorrect relationships. Well,my Scout master had a wife who also was involved, teaching things like compass use (a woman, teaching males in direction finding?) so if there was any silent 'example' to follow, that was about it. We did have the old slightly militaristic salute to the flag and allegiance to "God and to the Queen" but I think that doesn't happen now.

I can only guess that there must be fears that an adult Gay man must simultaneously be (or have a higher chance of being) attracted to Preteen / Tween Boys, and would not be able to restrain himself. I'm not sure there is any evidence for this. Plus, the risk factor of hidden attractions in adult staff could apply to women too, and also to married seemingly straight men.

[sdanielmcev]

Brilliant idea! Yes, Sheldon. That's sarcasm.

[Linky]

Well dne. Absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[twocatsmac]

A bit like leaving a fox in charge of the chickens!

[samran]

A bit like leaving a fox in charge of the chickens!

Yes, just like you chose to be straight.

[twocatsmac]

A bit like leaving a fox in charge of the chickens!

Yes, just like you chose to be straight.

How do you know? I might be a ladyboy.

[Jingthing]

This isn't a 100 percent gays allowed decision.

Local troops can still block leaders based on them being gay.

The discrimination is fully ended for other adult positions such as as office staff.

I can understand the concern about pedo crimes but openly gay leaders will be watched liked hawks and the ones more likely to commit such crimes are likely to be seen as heterosexual pillars of the community.

This total ban had to end because it was a messed up message to gay youth as fairly recently gay scouts were allowed but the message was that as soon as you're 18, this organization that accepts you as equal then instantly demonizes you only based on your sexual orientation. That is obviously unfair.

I realize some gay activists will still not see this new policy as good enough and it is true it is not a 100 percent non-discrimination policy but personally I think the BSA have shown really good and rather rapid progress on these issues and it seems a reasonable compromise at least for now.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't know what the U.S version is like but I was a member of Cubs and Scouts in the 80s and don't remember official overt indoctrination about what are correct or incorrect relationships. Well,my Scout master had a wife who also was involved, teaching things like compass use (a woman, teaching males in direction finding?) so if there was any silent 'example' to follow, that was about it. We did have the old slightly militaristic salute to the flag and allegiance to "God and to the Queen" but I think that doesn't happen now.

I can only guess that there must be fears that an adult Gay man must simultaneously be (or have a higher chance of being) attracted to Preteen / Tween Boys, and would not be able to restrain himself. I'm not sure there is any evidence for this. Plus, the risk factor of hidden attractions in adult staff could apply to women too, and also to married seemingly straight men.

Far as I'm concerned they can have monkeys as scoutleaders if they can do the job. However, to prevent even suspicion of any improper contact they should make rules that require that no boy/ girl should be with an adult in a room with the door closed and no adult is allowed to be with a boy/ girl anywhere that they are alone. Applies to women as well, as there are plenty of female teachers having improper relationships with children.

It is also necessary to protect adults from false accusation by children or parents.

[Lissos]

Far as I'm concerned they can have monkeys as scoutleaders if they can do the job. However, to prevent even suspicion of any improper contact they should make rules that require that no boy/ girl should be with an adult in a room with the door closed and no adult is allowed to be with a boy/ girl anywhere that they are alone. Applies to women as well, as there are plenty of female teachers having improper relationships with children.

It is also necessary to protect adults from false accusation by children or parents.

I think this is the rule (or guidance) in many fields of work / volunteering with children now. More than anything it is guidance designed to (as you say) prevent false accusations against staff of improper contact.

However, the achilles heel of it from what I can see is that it cannot stop 'pack predators' who may have infiltrated a place. What I mean is, the child is in a room with two adults (one supposedly keeping an eye on the other for improper conduct) but the two of them and operating together to abuse.

Attempting to have no such thing as interaction in private rooms seems like an answer,but difficult to implement in reality I should imagine. Institutionalised abuse is one of those phenomenons where even if the entire staff isn't directly and personally in on the abuse, there may also be a culture of fear about voicing suspicions, or even a spreading of the culture of certain kinds of abuse in an establishment if perceived as acceptable.

In Britain there were secret recordings where the entire care staff in a home for mentally challenged seem to become a pack of thugs. It was quite shocking footage of how in groups, in an isolated environment, can somehow become one unit of behaviour (applies to nations / ideo!ogy too of course).

But I drifted a bit there....

[Lissos]

A bit like leaving a fox in charge of the chickens!

Any evidence to support your concern?

[ggt]

I am not on-board with this...political correctness gone wild...

One day we will have a huge debacle with young people having being mistreated IMHO..much like the Catholic priest disclosers that went on for decades before it was uncovered and exposed to the public...

Not condemning gay adults...just do not think it is right to place the innocent...with those with an agenda...and expect a positive outcome...

[Jingthing]

Gay and pedo are not the same thing unless you happen to be a follower of PUTIN.

Nobody is condoning pedo crimes against boys or girls.

Again, think about this.

The chances that an OUT gay man would commit such crimes are remote compared to a scout leader who appears to be straight as an arrow and is hiding behind that facade.

Now if you think gay men can't be good role models for youth, that's just bigotry.

Not me of course ... I hate camping!

Obviously with this new policy, regions that are dominated by intolerant Christian fundamentalists are not going to have out gay leaders but more civilized areas WILL.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

At this point in the U.S. I don't think gay activists should push for more than this from the BSA. Otherwise, the anti-gay bigots would be screaming that we're trying to push stuff down their throats. That's what they are always saying. Tells a lot about what's on their minds.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[NickJ]

I was lucky my Dad was our Scoutmaster. The troop was made up of all the kids in the neighborhood. It didnt seem like a national organization that was run by halfwits.Sadly for some kids my Dad was more of a Dad to them that there own fathers were..

[twocatsmac]

The hysterical gay activists are all 'me me me.

This is about protecting youngsters.

Putin was right.

Do whatever you do but keep away from the children.

Edited July 28, 2015 by twocatsmac

[Jingthing]

The hysterical gay activists are all 'me me me.

This is about protecting youngsters.

Putin was right.

Do whatever you do but keep away from the children.

What's the message to gay boy scouts that it's OK to be a gay boy scout but as soon as you turn 18 you're garbage?

[faraday]

A bit like leaving a fox in charge of the chickens!

Yes, just like you chose to be straight.

How do you know? I might be a ladyboy.

I doubt whether you are even as pleasant as them.

[Chicog]

Oops another TV blip by the looks.

[samran]

The hysterical gay activists are all 'me me me.

This is about protecting youngsters.

Putin was right.

Do whatever you do but keep away from the children.

The only thing youngsters need protecting from are idiotic attitudes such as yours.

[Lissos]

Oops another TV blip by the looks.

Lol, you could say that yes. I thought my connection was timing out, so I tried on several occasions to post the same post. Instead of one, about 6 then appeared (now cut out with 'duplicate' to mark them for deletion).

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic posts and replies have been removed. Unfortunately some good comments were removed because the troll posts were in the quotes.

[twocatsmac]

A bit like leaving a fox in charge of the chickens!

Any evidence to support your concern?

Yes you saw the evidence and replied but it was edited out

at the request of the alternative boys on the forum.

[Lissos]

* Regarding a member's prior claim of 2000 scouts abused *

Avid reader of hard copy books that I am, we're on the internet here my friend in a shooting star internet discussion (here one minute, on page 5 tommorow). If I went and bought every hardcopy book someone referred to in an internet discussion (sometimes to find they either never actually read it themselves, or referenced a quote from page 47 only to find no such quote exists on page 47 (or does but has been cut to pieces on the net to create an entirely different context) I would be broke, would have been deflected into wasting my time having read a book to find the internet discussion is long over and even if findings are posted, there is no response later because the person never checks back, or plays dead.

So, trusting for now that you have read the book can you give me a quick summary on the background of your 2000 figure for this net discussion. Basically, over what period of time, where, the sexual orientation (previously announced, discovered later, or guessed by the author) of the perpetrators, etc etc. It would make that figure more usefull online on a forum. Thanks.

[Jingthing]

The most interesting part of this news to me is whether gay activists who are invested in the BSA issue are going to be OK or not with the less than 100 percent non-discrimination part of this new policy. If you were an openly gay man in a right wing area of the U.S. would you really want to deal with the noise you would get being a scout leader?

The new policy reminds me a little bit of the military don't ask / don't tell which ultimately couldn't stand. But this is different, because people would already know if they were rejecting based on being gay ... but the similarity is that it is an open policy that is clear that it does not offer complete non-discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[Lissos]

Depends. On the one hand, why 'should' they accept a lesser outcome than 100% but then again perhaps as your signature says - "In life you gotta bend. Carry vaseline." to some form of compromise. Perhaps joint leadership roles of a straight man and gay man both leading a troop. It seems absurd to have to, but it would leave the - "manoeuvring their way into power in order to indocrinate and abuse our children" argument with nowhere to go, once under way.

[Jingthing]

In my view, this is mostly an internal BSA matter but I am pleased that they have made so much progress, so quickly, even short of 100 percent. Nothing is perfect.