Fastest way to get my son to the UK?

[hextac]

Hi,

I am stuck in a bit of a catch 22 situation, regarding taking my son back to the UK. His British passport expired a few years back, and he needs a new one or alternative document. He has a brand new Thai passport as initially the British PP website said they would need to see it. The issue is that now I'm running out of time as it took his mother ages to appear at the Thai PP office.

Basically, I need the fastest documentation to get him out of Thailand. My lease runs out in 2 weeks and money is becoming a big concern. I think I have 3 options:

1. Wait for normal British passport, but was told it could/would take 6 weeks

2. Try to get an emergency travel document, but told I need hard travel dates and his mother's input.

3. Try to get him a British visa in his Thai passport, but not sure of consequences of not having a current British PP

I'm going to the Embassy on Monday to hopefully get clarification but wondered if anyone had any similar experiences or advice.

Cheers,

HEX..

[dabhand]

There may be another option.

That is, to travel with the expired UK passport as he should still be allowed to enter the UK even on a passport that has expired.

Have seen this mentioned on other threads but problems might arise at airline check-in and, possibly, at Thai immigration. Although, when I last travelled with my sons to the UK (both have Thai/UK passports), Thai immigration did not ask to see their UK passports. But airport check-in process did involve confirming that a UK visa was not needed so they did need to see the UK passport. Not sure whether having an expired UK passport would have meant boarding was not allowed.

Maybe the UK embassy could advise on this. Or even be able to provide a letter that confirms your son will be allowed to enter the UK on his expired passport.

You can then arrange for his new UK passport in the UK.

[sanuk711]

That is, to travel with the expired UK passport as he should still be allowed to enter the UK even on a passport that has expired.---dabhand

------------------------------

Yes you are allowed to enter your home country on an expired passport----I did this last year in the UK with a 3 month expired passport...... also a few years back into Oz --just 1 month oz expired passport--if you are worried you can phone & get confirmation from the embassy.

[Mudcrab]

Leave on his Thai passport and enter the UK on his expired passport.

[menzies233]

Leave on his Thai passport and enter the UK on his expired passport.

He CANNOT leave on his Thai Passport, unless he has a valid UK Visa in the first place!

[menzies233]

I would honestly try the emergency travel document, that is what I was told by the British Embassy in exactly the same circumstances, valid Thai passport, no UK visa, expired UK passport. You might be able to chance your luck using the expired UK passport, but I would be a bit worried that you might get some "Jobsworth" that may cause you enough delays that you may miss your flight!

(I had a Jobsworth that cost me a flight in China when travelling to Singapore with my wife on her Thai passport, the "Jobsworth" insisted she needed a valid visa when in fact Thais did not back then - it didn't matter that we were proved correct in the end, we still missed the flight!

[menzies233]

There may be another option.

That is, to travel with the expired UK passport as he should still be allowed to enter the UK even on a passport that has expired.

Have seen this mentioned on other threads but problems might arise at airline check-in and, possibly, at Thai immigration. Although, when I last travelled with my sons to the UK (both have Thai/UK passports), Thai immigration did not ask to see their UK passports. But airport check-in process did involve confirming that a UK visa was not needed so they did need to see the UK passport. Not sure whether having an expired UK passport would have meant boarding was not allowed.

Maybe the UK embassy could advise on this. Or even be able to provide a letter that confirms your son will be allowed to enter the UK on his expired passport.

You can then arrange for his new UK passport in the UK.

You will probably find it is quicker to get a new UK passport or a UK Visa rather than waiting for any assistance from the British Embassy, they are completely useless, they do not provide their citizens with any assistance if they can manage to ignore them, whilst sipping on G'n"T over supper. A dreadful shower of useless fools who do as little as possible for as long as they can.

Also, depending upon where you are, that 6 weeks they told you to get your passport from the UK is 6 WEEKS FROM WHEN THE UK receive it!

You will have to travel to the agency in Bangkok, there is a waiting list. You submit the application, they send it DHL to the UK, then the UK eventually processes it and sends it back to the agency in Bangkok and you have to go back there to collect it.

Terrible state of affairs.

Edited July 31, 2015 by menzies233

[MaeJoMTB]

Leave on his Thai passport and enter the UK on his expired passport.

He CANNOT leave on his Thai Passport, unless he has a valid UK Visa in the first place!

Yes he can, all he needs to enter England is proof of citizenship, an expired passport works fine for that.

[menzies233]

Leave on his Thai passport and enter the UK on his expired passport.

He CANNOT leave on his Thai Passport, unless he has a valid UK Visa in the first place!

Yes he can, all he needs to enter England is proof of citizenship, an expired passport works fine for that.

He cannot get a boarding pass on a Thai passport if there is no visa attached - His only hope is that the check in staff allow him a pass using his expired UK passport. If they refuse he is stuck. That is why I mentioned the incident in China, if you cannot get the boarding pass you are not going to get as far as immigration.

Edited July 31, 2015 by menzies233

[menzies233]

MaeJoMTB - Are you really sure that you can leave on an expired passport? I would love for you to be correct as if this is the case you have just saved me a fortune! (I am in the situation of having to renew my son's next month in Bangkok) I could simply take him with me on the old passport, get a new one in the UK and save all of the expense and hassle of travelling to the agency twice from up north!

Let me know if you are 100% sure this is legal thanks.

If this is the fact, then I apologise for my mistake.

Cheers.

[flyingdoc]

When someone in my family had their passport stolen, they obtained a replacement within a week, through the efforts of the British Consul, who helped in every way.

[7by7]

The airline will want to know that he can enter the UK; which as a British citizen he certainly can; even if his passport has expired.

Para 12 of the immigration rules

12. A person claiming to be a British citizen must prove that he has the right of abode in the United Kingdom by producing either:
(i) a United Kingdom passport describing him as a British citizen or as a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies having the right of abode in the United Kingdom; or
(ii) a certificate of entitlement duly issued by or on behalf of the Government of the United Kingdom certifying that he has the right of abode.

Note it does not say in (i) that the passport must be valid, i.e. not expired.

So show them his expired passport; which they should accept, but may not without an argument! A print out of the above paragraph may convince them; though, obviously, you may have trouble if his appearance has changed significantly since the passport was issued.

An emergency travel document will definitely convince them. You say

2. Try to get an emergency travel document, but told I need hard travel dates and his mother's input

From Get an emergency travel document

How to apply for a child under 16

proof of your travel plans, eg booking confirmations (or detailed written travel plans if you can’t book ahead)
written proof that everyone who has parental responsibility for the child agrees to the application
a photocopy of the passport photo page of everyone who has parental responsibility for the child

So you don't need 'hard travel plans' as such; but, assuming you do not have sole custody, you will need input from his mother.

But it goes on to say

Contact the nearest British embassy, high commission or consulate if you aren’t the child’s parent or guardian, or can’t provide the documents needed.

So if you can't get his mother's input, you should contact the embassy.

See also Emergency Travel Documents on the Bangkok embassy site.

Note it says there that he will need a Thai exit visa to leave Thailand. Ignore this, as he is also Thai and has a Thai passport he can use that to leave Thailand.

Any application by him for a UK visa in his Thai passport should be refused as British citizens cannot have a time limit placed upon their stay in the UK. See UK Visa for child entitled to UK Citizenship

[tajtom]

Duck down to Jomtien and grab a jet ski

[BudRight]

Leave on his Thai passport and enter the UK on his expired passport.

He CANNOT leave on his Thai Passport, unless he has a valid UK Visa in the first place!

Yes he can, all he needs to enter England is proof of citizenship, an expired passport works fine for that.

He cannot get a boarding pass on a Thai passport if there is no visa attached - His only hope is that the check in staff allow him a pass using his expired UK passport. If they refuse he is stuck. That is why I mentioned the incident in China, if you cannot get the boarding pass you are not going to get as far as immigration.

Well, I suppose if this were true you could fly via Israel where Thai citizens do not need visas, but I don't believe it is. Edited July 31, 2015 by BudRight

[bobrussell]

The airline would almost certainly refuse to allow someone to board a flight from Israel to London.

Airlines face very stiff penalties if they land someone without the right to enter the UK. The point of these penalties is to make sure the airlines don't let them board in the first place.

[gandalf12]

An emergency travel passport can be issued quickly. Have a word with the passport office they can, although may not want to, help you

[Jonmarleesco]

That is, to travel with the expired UK passport as he should still be allowed to enter the UK even on a passport that has expired.---dabhand

------------------------------

Yes you are allowed to enter your home country on an expired passport----I did this last year in the UK with a 3 month expired passport...... also a few years back into Oz --just 1 month oz expired passport--if you are worried you can phone & get confirmation from the embassy.

Three months isn't a few years. And good luck to the OP with getting an answer from the embassy; though it could happen.

[Jonmarleesco]

MaeJoMTB - Are you really sure that you can leave on an expired passport? I would love for you to be correct as if this is the case you have just saved me a fortune! (I am in the situation of having to renew my son's next month in Bangkok) I could simply take him with me on the old passport, get a new one in the UK and save all of the expense and hassle of travelling to the agency twice from up north!

Let me know if you are 100% sure this is legal thanks.

If this is the fact, then I apologise for my mistake.

Cheers.

You can extend your son's passport, for 12 months, quickly and free of charge.

[Jonmarleesco]

Leave on his Thai passport and enter the UK on his expired passport.

He CANNOT leave on his Thai Passport, unless he has a valid UK Visa in the first place!

Yes he can, all he needs to enter England is proof of citizenship, an expired passport works fine for that.

There is no guarantee the airline would agree that the expired P/P is valid; and it is they who dictate whether or not he can board. As well, an expired passport, particularly one that expired some years previous, does not prove citizenship, given a dual citizen, just like any one who receives British nationality rather than inheriting it, could have lost it.

[Richard W]

Yes he can, all he needs to enter England is proof of citizenship, an expired passport works fine for that.

There is no guarantee the airline would agree that the expired P/P is valid; and it is they who dictate whether or not he can board. As well, an expired passport, particularly one that expired some years previous, does not prove citizenship, given a dual citizen, just like any one who receives British nationality rather than inheriting it, could have lost it.

A competent government would revoke an ex-citizen's expired passport, or otherwise record them as unacceptable.

The issue will be whether the link between the child and the expired passport is considered sufficiently clear.

[hextac]

Sorry I can't reply to all the comments posted but thanks for all the advice and suggestions everyone.

I can't really afford to risk chancing an expired UK passport (2 years) and a jobsworth at either airport though.

I also read on another thread that if you enter any country with a visa you have to abide by the dates on the visa, but there's a lot of conflicting information out there.

We have managed to contact his mother who has "kindly" agreed to go to the embassy with us on Monday.

I will post an update Monday afternoon.

Cheers everyone,

HEX.

[bigyin]

MaeJoMTB - Are you really sure that you can leave on an expired passport? I would love for you to be correct as if this is the case you have just saved me a fortune! (I am in the situation of having to renew my son's next month in Bangkok) I could simply take him with me on the old passport, get a new one in the UK and save all of the expense and hassle of travelling to the agency twice from up north!

Let me know if you are 100% sure this is legal thanks.

If this is the fact, then I apologise for my mistake.

Cheers.

You can extend your son's passport, for 12 months, quickly and free of charge.

That was a temporary facility last year because of the back log and has now been stopped.

[Bardeh]

For what it's worth, I recently applied for my son's first UK passport, and the time between application and the email telling me it was ready for pickup was only 13 days.

[gandalf12]

Fastest passport I have had was in Zambia and it took 20 minutes, yes you read that right it took just 20 minutes. It was an emergency passport when the one I had was stolen.

[menzies233]

For what it's worth, I recently applied for my son's first UK passport, and the time between application and the email telling me it was ready for pickup was only 13 days.

Did you apply for this in Thailand? 13 days really?

Seems very quick, but then again the retarded civil "Servants" in the UK have been getting a hell of a lot of flak over passports recently so maybe they have decided to get off their lazy asses and do the job they are paid to do.

[menzies233]

Fastest passport I have had was in Zambia and it took 20 minutes, yes you read that right it took just 20 minutes. It was an emergency passport when the one I had was stolen.

Got to admit, you are a braver man than me to brave a country like that!

I am curious about the other guy posting that he got a passport in 13 days, I cannot imagine that was from Thailand to the UK and back.

I also see a few doubts about getting the boarding pass on an expired passport, my sons passport is 5 years out of date, not worth buying a ticket on a whim !

[gandalf12]

Fastest passport I have had was in Zambia and it took 20 minutes, yes you read that right it took just 20 minutes. It was an emergency passport when the one I had was stolen.

Got to admit, you are a braver man than me to brave a country like that!

I am curious about the other guy posting that he got a passport in 13 days, I cannot imagine that was from Thailand to the UK and back.

I also see a few doubts about getting the boarding pass on an expired passport, my sons passport is 5 years out of date, not worth buying a ticket on a whim !

Definitely dont buy on a whim. Talk to the Embassy passport section I am sure they can help you out with a very quick turn around. Be advised the embassy unofficial policy is "to do as little as possible for as many as possible for as much as possible". When I got my emergency passport in Zambia I phoned them and the consul told me that it normally takes 3 days but give us hassle and we will do it as you wait.

You have to try and not be put off. If necessary contact the Consul if you have problems. They are the boss and can help a lot more than the staff.

I would be interested to know how you get on.

[Bardeh]

For what it's worth, I recently applied for my son's first UK passport, and the time between application and the email telling me it was ready for pickup was only 13 days.

Did you apply for this in Thailand? 13 days really?

Seems very quick, but then again the retarded civil "Servants" in the UK have been getting a hell of a lot of flak over passports recently so maybe they have decided to get off their lazy asses and do the job they are paid to do.

Yup, it was far far quicker than I was expecting!

[Jaggg88]

My wife has just done this journey in reverse. Her Thai passport had expired but Emirates Airline accepted it as proof she did not need a visa for Thailand ( a 6 week stay). Thai immigration did not bat an eyelid when she arrived. They just said to renew before she exited Thailand. Please read 7by7's post as he is always well informed.

[wlx]

For what it's worth, I recently applied for my son's first UK passport, and the time between application and the email telling me it was ready for pickup was only 13 days.

"same same"

Appointment for submission of documents 30th June.

E-mail to collect passport, 13th July