Politicking in the garb of reform

[JAG]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

That's very democratic of you. Would you say the same of "Thaksin and his gang."

If the electorate had rejected him, then yes of course.

[Srikcir]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

Suthep should stay out of politics and so should YL and the other Shins. That would at least help the country forward. I doubt it will happen.

It will happen the day the Thai military stays out of politics.

Since 1933 it has always been about the military agenda for Thailand's future. Every time a civilian government begins to look more towards a democratic process to change the nation, the military steps in the reset the political landscape. There is nothing in the NRC reform that addresses this problem, and so it will continue.

[halloween]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

That's very democratic of you. Would you say the same of "Thaksin and his gang."

If the electorate had rejected him, then yes of course.

What is that supposed to mean?

".......spell it out to the people and let them be the judge." sounds reasonable to me.

How do you reconcile "irrespective of what the people decide" with democratic ideals you supposedly profess?

[MZurf]

Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity. Sorry if I can't meet your demand for an immediate reply, some of us have other interests.

I was pointing out in the incongruity of your statement. that "Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible."

In answer to your question, yes, IMHO. Policy to stop MPs accepting 3rd party payments will limit the ability of the very top to control those with the votes. I expect PTP to oppose a major drop in their income.

So in your definition of the term "top" does it include or exclude the PM and his ministers? In your parallel universe I guess Gen P didn't warn off anyone trying to look into his finances.

Unbelievable. No, par for the course for you.

Reform is being made of the electoral and government systems for return to democracy, and of course it refers to the PM and ministers. Who else would it refer to?. The current system is a short term anomaly to allow those reforms to take place.

I don't know - that's why I ask. You say some pretty weird stuff on a regular basis so need to be sure.

Edited August 2, 2015 by metisdead
16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[JAG]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

That's very democratic of you. Would you say the same of "Thaksin and his gang."

If the electorate had rejected him, then yes of course.

What is that supposed to mean?

".......spell it out to the people and let them be the judge." sounds reasonable to me.

How do you reconcile "irrespective of what the people decide" with democratic ideals you supposedly profess?

It means that if Thaksin were to do what Suthep is doing; setting up an organisation which aims to influence/direct the government of the country without a democratic mandate, then yes I would condemn it.

The suggestion that he is doing it "irrespective of what the people decide" is totally reconcilable with the democratic ideals which I do profess. He hasn't been elected, hasn't stood for election, and was a prime mover in preventing the last constitutionally called election. My "democratic ideals" lead me to believe that those who wish to be in government should stand for election, those in government should have been elected, and that the opposition should not impede elections in order to engineer a military coup to bring down an elected government. All these criteria can be applied to Suthep, I don't think I can be any clearer than that.

Edited August 2, 2015 by JAG

[djjamie]

The day that Suthep starts spewing the toxic, violent narrative that PEACE TV have been famous for will be the day that Suthep should be banned as well.

Until that day everyone should have a say in reform and be able to voice their opinion. When the opinion is not constructive and creates instability is when it should be silenced. And for the that say "Freedom of speech" I could not agree more, but for those radical fundamentalists that need it spelt out......"freedom of lies" to create national division and incite unrest is not welcome here, not in the west. In fact the Aust govt banned their politicians from being on a certain show that gave air time to a known terrorist and if it continued the show would be banned.

Unfortunately some are so indoctrinated by the likes of Weng, Nattawut and Jatupron with their hatred of anything involving Prayut and Suthep (whether they are both helping the majority is irrelevant) coupled with their desperation to stay relevant that they are blinded by a cloud of illogical reasoning where by what is normal in the west is denounced as undemocratic here. Ironically by the same people that supported a previous regime run by an unelected criminal!!

It is bizarro world...It is PTP logic right there folks!

Weng's (beat the War drum) warriors will fight, kill, intimidate and be as undemocratic as they can to restore a form of democracy that has soured on the tongues of the peaceful, stable majority and he hates it.

Edited August 2, 2015 by djjamie

[halloween]

So is posting defamatory comments !! Who else since 1933 that was a criminal elected to be PM?

Not a criminal during, or after, but before? You clearly state they kept electing criminals, so in other words you've defamed all previous Prime Ministers since 1933?

Your whole post is based on the fallacy that someone is not a criminal until they are convicted. It is a nit-picking waste of my time and yours.

[tbthailand]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

Suthep should stay out of politics and so should YL and the other Shins. That would at least help the country forward. I doubt it will happen.

if you would add the generals to that mix, then we might find some common ground, ...

[tbthailand]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

Suthep should stay out of politics and so should YL and the other Shins. That would at least help the country forward. I doubt it will happen.

It will happen the day the Thai military stays out of politics.

Since 1933 it has always been about the military agenda for Thailand's future. Every time a civilian government begins to look more towards a democratic process to change the nation, the military steps in the reset the political landscape. There is nothing in the NRC reform that addresses this problem, and so it will continue.

ahhh, sad, but true...

which is why this round of coup/reforms is so depressing. It's a big step backwards, not forwards....

[BirdsandBooze]

This could end badly for Suthep. Masters don't like being bitten by their dog.

[MZurf]

The day that Suthep starts spewing the toxic, violent narrative that PEACE TV have been famous for will be the day that Suthep should be banned as well.

Until that day everyone should have a say in reform and be able to voice their opinion. When the opinion is not constructive and creates instability is when it should be silenced. And for the that say "Freedom of speech" I could not agree more, but for those radical fundamentalists that need it spelt out......"freedom of lies" to create national division and incite unrest is not welcome here, not in the west. In fact the Aust govt banned their politicians from being on a certain show that gave air time to a known terrorist and if it continued the show would be banned.

Unfortunately some are so indoctrinated by the likes of Weng, Nattawut and Jatupron with their hatred of anything involving Prayut and Suthep (whether they are both helping the majority is irrelevant) coupled with their desperation to stay relevant that they are blinded by a cloud of illogical reasoning where by what is normal in the west is denounced as undemocratic here. Ironically by the same people that supported a previous regime run by an unelected criminal!!

It is bizarro world...It is PTP logic right there folks!

Weng's (beat the War drum) warriors will fight, kill, intimidate and be as undemocratic as they can to restore a form of democracy that has soured on the tongues of the peaceful, stable majority and he hates it.

You mean like the 14 students that were arrested?? Yes, Suthep is the head of a "non-political" organization that interferes politically and yet miraculously he is not arrested and/or given an attitude adjustment.

If I was even the tiniest into conspiracy theories then.....

Please elaborate on what is normal in the west and denounced as undemocratic here (this should be good)?

Edited August 2, 2015 by metisdead
16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[bamnutsak]

This could end badly for Suthep. Masters don't like being bitten by their dog.

Not likely, Suthep is the master.

[metisdead]

A post containing defamatory comments has been removed as well as a reply:

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Posts in which the quoted posts had been altered by use of bold font have been edited as per forum netiquette:

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[tigermoth]

Thailand has moved itself into a very dangerous position. It is quickly becoming very much like Nazi Germany prior to world war 2. Attitude adjustment, Happiness for the people programs, strict control on all media, internment without trial etc., etc. The main difference is the free spirit of the Thai people who fail to be lulled into the following the course the new regime seems intent on taking them. "Do it our way, our way is the only way, fail to do so at your peril."

[elgordo38]

Reform, as has been stated is not around the corner and never has been , Thailand has no blueprint to move forward , it has the same old crew manning the lifeboats , the Junta has not changed the deck chairs, the same divisions exist in the general population , on the come back trail Suthep fools no - one least of all the red shirts , Suthep coming back into the equation will open old wounds , nothing will be achieved , the divide in Thailand hasn't been addressed and anyone who thinks it has is delusional , what a waste of time and effort to achieve nothing but the sameness of 2013.

A wolf in sheep's clothing looking for Little RED Riding Hood to come out and play.

[BirdsandBooze]

This could end badly for Suthep. Masters don't like being bitten by their dog.

Not likely, Suthep is the master.

Suthep holds no real power, he's just a political bruiser. a tool of the three elites and one elite in particular. If he steps too far out of line they'll put him back in his box and keep him there until they have a use for him again.