Will Pattaya be a ghost town in ten years?

[onemorechang]

I've no doubt that many Chinese will start travelling here independently in due course (some do already) and Pattaya will have to cater to them and introduce gambling: casinos and maybe horse racing. In the UK there are thousands of young, rich Chinese studying at universities, so a short flight to Pattaya is hardly going to be daunting for them. High end malls, restaurants and hotels are already springing up to meet demand and more will follow. There will still be room for the beer bars and other sundry, less esoteric & more erotic diversions; they too will have appeal to the Chinese.

So your saying Thailand will change its Laws for

the sake of tourism in pattaya and totally forget about the Thai people

and the massive problems gambling will bring for the poor people of this land. Don't think so.

The law about gambling was put there for a reason and Thailand still needs that law.

Edited August 3, 2015 by onemorechang

[Orac]

High season low season c'mon I sometimes go weeks without a decent cashflow input then bingo, it takes patience and a well charged mobile to whilst away the hours in-between.

You are 't the girl i met i the bar last night are you that moaned about how long it was since she had a customer then ignored me to play cookie run are you?

[Orac]

I've no doubt that many Chinese will start travelling here independently in due course (some do already) and Pattaya will have to cater to them and introduce gambling: casinos and maybe horse racing. In the UK there are thousands of young, rich Chinese studying at universities, so a short flight to Pattaya is hardly going to be daunting for them. High end malls, restaurants and hotels are already springing up to meet demand and more will follow. There will still be room for the beer bars and other sundry, less esoteric & more erotic diversions; they too will have appeal to the Chinese.

So your saying Thailand will change its Laws for

the sake of tourism in pattaya and totally forget about the Thai people

and the massive problems gambling will bring for the poor people of this land. Don't think so.

The law about gambling was put there for a reason and Thailand still needs that law.

Exactly, if people could get good odds gambling legally they wouldn't play the lottery and line the governments pockets.

[onemorechang]

So your saying Thailand will change its Laws for

the sake of tourism in pattaya and totally forget about the Thai people

and the massive problems gambling will bring for the poor people of this land. Don't think so.

The law about gambling was put there for a reason and Thailand still needs that law.

Exactly, if people could get good odds gambling legally they wouldn't play the lottery and line the governments pockets.

Very good

[overherebc]

It won't die and become a ghost town.

It'll just smell worse in 10 years time.

[RabC]

I find it hard to believe that Hooters will be a success in Pattaya.

I mean Pattaya is quite price sensitive and Hooters wont be cheap so for a start that will wipe out a lot of customers.

And the girl attraction can be had all over town and in much sexier outfits or no outfits as the case may be.

I believe the "price concious" are not the demographic that Hooters are after, I can imagine too many balloons outside.

There are loads of Pubs/Bars that charge over 100 baht/drink, to quite a few people, service, ambience and location mean a lot more than a 50 baht beer.

[Briggsy]

Apart from the conspicuous sex industry catering for tourists and foreign residents, Pattaya is a functioning city. Many Pattayanians work in shops and factories unrelated to the tourist industry. Pattaya will evolve but "a ghost town", no chance whatsoever.

[misterphil]

I've left Pattaya several times only to return living there again and again. However now I'm away from Pattaya and don't want to live there again. I'm close enough to it if I need something, and far enough away to not have to put up with the busy traffic and all the BS that goes in the city.

[CNXTim]

I first went to Pattaya in 1968.. It had recently concluded its transformation from a typical Thai fishing village to one that served American Fried Rice (AFR LoL LoL there is a truly funny story there).

Be nice to see it as a laid back Thai fishing village one more time.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Within 10 years Patts will have a casino that will save the day.

[Kerryd]

The demographics may change, will change, over the years but it's not likely Pattaya is going to dry up and disappear anytime in the foreseeable future.

Businesses come, businesses go, businesses change business and businesses change names/owners but business itself isn't disappearing so much as it is morphing. As has been noted the bigger places are going strong for a few reasons. They've done their homework to begin with. They either have a strong, recognizable brand name or they've built one based on quality service and product. As always in almost any business, location is key. It may actually be the most important aspect. If you have a prime location you can survive poor quality service and product by having high customer turn-over (with short or no memory at all). If you have a mediocre or poor location, you'd better have excellent service/product otherwise you won't survive.

If you have a service-related business (restaurant/bar/repair shop) that is dependant on walk-in business you had better be providing excellent service, especially if you are relying on "local" traffic more than "tourist" traffic. I know one place where customers come in to browse and the owner won't even get out of his chair to say hi or ask if he can help them with anything. Little wonder that they finally turn around and walk out (and what do you think they'll say to their friends if anyone asks them about that place). I mean crap - if you don't even have prices on the things you're selling and aren't willing to deal with customers, why do you even have a business at all ?

Another problem that is prevalent here is the practise of "business is slow so lets jack the prices up to make as much as we can off the little business we are still getting". I was trying to explain that to a friend the other day (he and his family own a number of businesses in Pattaya). I told him that in the west when things are slow businesses will offer deals/gimmicks to draw customers in. Like 2 for 1 deals, extended "Happy Hour" deals, free pool, free snacks. In Thailand they just raise the prices and then wonder why business gets even worse.

As I mentioned in another thread quite recently, too many businesses also open with the expectation that they will be turning a profit from the minute they open their doors until the end of times. They do not plan on "low seasons", poor product/service, low business volumes and as a result a few months after opening with high hopes, they are closing with dashed dreams.

Like that time tested and true saying goes, If you want to make a small fortune in Thailand, start with a large one !

[phycokiller]

I see that hooters hasnt made any moves on that site yet so I wouldnt get too exited yet.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Rimmer
Speculation

[kinmaew]

I dont know why blokes in their 50/60/70's could be bothered "Opening a restaurant" in Thailand for the average punter you are doomed to fail with the need to hire only useless Thais who know full well you have to hire them and they can do a shit job and get away with it. Wouldnt it be better to save up your cash in your home country and then come to LOS and just enjoy and if anything do a bit of cash work or the like to keep the icing on the cake. No way I would ever consider doing any kind of business in LOS because the place is just a fantasy land, nothing more. Dream on..dreamer

[Ghostnigel]

I actually do appreciate the problems business owners have here with such issues. Sometimes, actually pretty often, you see a new venture and think ... these people are MORONS. They've already failed. It's like they've lost their calling which is giving lessons in what NOT to do.

You are sooo right, like opening a shoe repair shop right next to 3 other shoe repair shops, that'll work, NOT!

[thaibeachlovers]

Are we entering the last few years of Pattaya as we know it?

If you mean in the past few years when Pattaya became too expensive, and too many businessmen trying to make Pattaya into an upmarket destination with no consideration for the broken infrastructure, plus abominations like the user UNfriendly walkway, I HOPE SO.

Back in the early 90s Pattaya was a much friendlier place and was cheap and cheerful. Now it's got it's head up where the sun don't shine trying to be a rich people's destination. Enough already. Let's get back to what Pattaya always was successful at; a place for non PC men to have fun, not a family destination.

Perhaps we'll get better class accomodation at near last century prices- if so a good thing.

Unless the authorities go barking and destroy the nightlife, Pattaya will survive and probably thrive with lower prices.

[thaibeachlovers]

The demographics may change, will change, over the years but it's not likely Pattaya is going to dry up and disappear anytime in the foreseeable future.

Businesses come, businesses go, businesses change business and businesses change names/owners but business itself isn't disappearing so much as it is morphing. As has been noted the bigger places are going strong for a few reasons. They've done their homework to begin with. They either have a strong, recognizable brand name or they've built one based on quality service and product. As always in almost any business, location is key. It may actually be the most important aspect. If you have a prime location you can survive poor quality service and product by having high customer turn-over (with short or no memory at all). If you have a mediocre or poor location, you'd better have excellent service/product otherwise you won't survive.

If you have a service-related business (restaurant/bar/repair shop) that is dependant on walk-in business you had better be providing excellent service, especially if you are relying on "local" traffic more than "tourist" traffic. I know one place where customers come in to browse and the owner won't even get out of his chair to say hi or ask if he can help them with anything. Little wonder that they finally turn around and walk out (and what do you think they'll say to their friends if anyone asks them about that place). I mean crap - if you don't even have prices on the things you're selling and aren't willing to deal with customers, why do you even have a business at all ?

Another problem that is prevalent here is the practise of "business is slow so lets jack the prices up to make as much as we can off the little business we are still getting". I was trying to explain that to a friend the other day (he and his family own a number of businesses in Pattaya). I told him that in the west when things are slow businesses will offer deals/gimmicks to draw customers in. Like 2 for 1 deals, extended "Happy Hour" deals, free pool, free snacks. In Thailand they just raise the prices and then wonder why business gets even worse.

As I mentioned in another thread quite recently, too many businesses also open with the expectation that they will be turning a profit from the minute they open their doors until the end of times. They do not plan on "low seasons", poor product/service, low business volumes and as a result a few months after opening with high hopes, they are closing with dashed dreams.

Like that time tested and true saying goes, If you want to make a small fortune in Thailand, start with a large one !

You ommited official harassment from your list. Once was a Brit had a restaurant near Walking St and it was great, but the requirement to use a certain company to install unnecessary CCTV and other such like made him close in protest.

Also the threat of owners being arrested for so much as handing a customer a drink ( for working ) is a big turn off.

[thaibeachlovers]

High season low season c'mon I sometimes go weeks without a decent cashflow input then bingo, it takes patience and a well charged mobile to whilst away the hours in-between.

You are 't the girl i met i the bar last night are you that moaned about how long it was since she had a customer then ignored me to play cookie run are you?

The biggest complaint I have about Gogos is the girls that soon as you buy them a drink have to "go dance" and disappear for ages.

In a barbeer I once bought a girl a drink and she then vanished because she had to go manage the bar!

In response I decided to only buy one cheap drink and watch what was going on till I could decide if it was decent place or not, even if that took an hour. I also prefered to give the girl same amount of money directly as if I'd bought her a drink ( if she was worth it ) rather than buy drinks for her. So by their bad attitude some bars made very little money from me. Good bars and girls, on the other hand did well out of me.

[davethailand]

The biggest handicap to Pattaya is the incompetence of the Pattaya City Council . The list of badly managed public projects is immense - just look at how they have managed drainage projects, Beach road, Jomtien beach, Sukhumvit road traffic, lack of planning in general plus many more. If the organisation overseeing the area can't get their act together then does it really matter if there are too many bars .

+1

[thaibeachlovers]

The biggest handicap to Pattaya is the incompetence of the Pattaya City Council . The list of badly managed public projects is immense - just look at how they have managed drainage projects, Beach road, Jomtien beach, Sukhumvit road traffic, lack of planning in general plus many more. If the organisation overseeing the area can't get their act together then does it really matter if there are too many bars .

+1

+2

[davethailand]

The demographics may change, will change, over the years but it's not likely Pattaya is going to dry up and disappear anytime in the foreseeable future.

Businesses come, businesses go, businesses change business and businesses change names/owners but business itself isn't disappearing so much as it is morphing. As has been noted the bigger places are going strong for a few reasons. They've done their homework to begin with. They either have a strong, recognizable brand name or they've built one based on quality service and product. As always in almost any business, location is key. It may actually be the most important aspect. If you have a prime location you can survive poor quality service and product by having high customer turn-over (with short or no memory at all). If you have a mediocre or poor location, you'd better have excellent service/product otherwise you won't survive.

If you have a service-related business (restaurant/bar/repair shop) that is dependant on walk-in business you had better be providing excellent service, especially if you are relying on "local" traffic more than "tourist" traffic. I know one place where customers come in to browse and the owner won't even get out of his chair to say hi or ask if he can help them with anything. Little wonder that they finally turn around and walk out (and what do you think they'll say to their friends if anyone asks them about that place). I mean crap - if you don't even have prices on the things you're selling and aren't willing to deal with customers, why do you even have a business at all ?

Another problem that is prevalent here is the practise of "business is slow so lets jack the prices up to make as much as we can off the little business we are still getting". I was trying to explain that to a friend the other day (he and his family own a number of businesses in Pattaya). I told him that in the west when things are slow businesses will offer deals/gimmicks to draw customers in. Like 2 for 1 deals, extended "Happy Hour" deals, free pool, free snacks. In Thailand they just raise the prices and then wonder why business gets even worse.

As I mentioned in another thread quite recently, too many businesses also open with the expectation that they will be turning a profit from the minute they open their doors until the end of times. They do not plan on "low seasons", poor product/service, low business volumes and as a result a few months after opening with high hopes, they are closing with dashed dreams.

Like that time tested and true saying goes, If you want to make a small fortune in Thailand, start with a large one !

You ommited official harassment from your list. Once was a Brit had a restaurant near Walking St and it was great, but the requirement to use a certain company to install unnecessary CCTV and other such like made him close in protest.

Also the threat of owners being arrested for so much as handing a customer a drink ( for working ) is a big turn off.

Closed because of pressure to use a certain CCTV company?

sounds like there maybe a bit more to that too be honest.

I never had any harassment issue like that whilst open there.

[Asiantravel]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

Quote unquote. Always remember we cannot judge the future by looking in the rear view mirror. I feel like I am in that movie where tourists went back in time to watch the dinosaurs but were told not to step off of the road. One guy did and stepped on a butterfly and changed the whole future. In all my years I have been through many ups and downs in the economy. I do not recognize the freight train bearing down on us now and I find it scary. My fiat money seems valueless in a sea of printed money sloshing around and it seems the bank does not want to pay me any interest or even want to hold my money on deposit unless its for free or I pay storage. They seem loaded with paper money. I no longer feel in control of my life.

"Once economies world wide start doing better"

yes it of rolls off the tongue so easily doesn't it?

But not once have I read any explanation anywhere as to how this miracle of economies worldwide starting to do better is going to be achieved? Just for starters where are the jobs around the world going to come from (e.g. 44% youth unemployment in Italy, 50% youth unemployment in Spain)

[phycokiller]

The biggest handicap to Pattaya is the incompetence of the Pattaya City Council . The list of badly managed public projects is immense - just look at how they have managed drainage projects, Beach road, Jomtien beach, Sukhumvit road traffic, lack of planning in general plus many more. If the organisation overseeing the area can't get their act together then does it really matter if there are too many bars .

+1

not to mention half built condos, carparks and marinas. huge waste of public money and land

Edited August 3, 2015 by phycokiller

[thaibeachlovers]

The demographics may change, will change, over the years but it's not likely Pattaya is going to dry up and disappear anytime in the foreseeable future.

Businesses come, businesses go, businesses change business and businesses change names/owners but business itself isn't disappearing so much as it is morphing. As has been noted the bigger places are going strong for a few reasons. They've done their homework to begin with. They either have a strong, recognizable brand name or they've built one based on quality service and product. As always in almost any business, location is key. It may actually be the most important aspect. If you have a prime location you can survive poor quality service and product by having high customer turn-over (with short or no memory at all). If you have a mediocre or poor location, you'd better have excellent service/product otherwise you won't survive.

If you have a service-related business (restaurant/bar/repair shop) that is dependant on walk-in business you had better be providing excellent service, especially if you are relying on "local" traffic more than "tourist" traffic. I know one place where customers come in to browse and the owner won't even get out of his chair to say hi or ask if he can help them with anything. Little wonder that they finally turn around and walk out (and what do you think they'll say to their friends if anyone asks them about that place). I mean crap - if you don't even have prices on the things you're selling and aren't willing to deal with customers, why do you even have a business at all ?

Another problem that is prevalent here is the practise of "business is slow so lets jack the prices up to make as much as we can off the little business we are still getting". I was trying to explain that to a friend the other day (he and his family own a number of businesses in Pattaya). I told him that in the west when things are slow businesses will offer deals/gimmicks to draw customers in. Like 2 for 1 deals, extended "Happy Hour" deals, free pool, free snacks. In Thailand they just raise the prices and then wonder why business gets even worse.

As I mentioned in another thread quite recently, too many businesses also open with the expectation that they will be turning a profit from the minute they open their doors until the end of times. They do not plan on "low seasons", poor product/service, low business volumes and as a result a few months after opening with high hopes, they are closing with dashed dreams.

Like that time tested and true saying goes, If you want to make a small fortune in Thailand, start with a large one !

You ommited official harassment from your list. Once was a Brit had a restaurant near Walking St and it was great, but the requirement to use a certain company to install unnecessary CCTV and other such like made him close in protest.

Also the threat of owners being arrested for so much as handing a customer a drink ( for working ) is a big turn off.

Closed because of pressure to use a certain CCTV company?

sounds like there maybe a bit more to that too be honest.

I never had any harassment issue like that whilst open there.

Yes, there was. You missed and other such like.

[davethailand]

The demographics may change, will change, over the years but it's not likely Pattaya is going to dry up and disappear anytime in the foreseeable future.

Businesses come, businesses go, businesses change business and businesses change names/owners but business itself isn't disappearing so much as it is morphing. As has been noted the bigger places are going strong for a few reasons. They've done their homework to begin with. They either have a strong, recognizable brand name or they've built one based on quality service and product. As always in almost any business, location is key. It may actually be the most important aspect. If you have a prime location you can survive poor quality service and product by having high customer turn-over (with short or no memory at all). If you have a mediocre or poor location, you'd better have excellent service/product otherwise you won't survive.

If you have a service-related business (restaurant/bar/repair shop) that is dependant on walk-in business you had better be providing excellent service, especially if you are relying on "local" traffic more than "tourist" traffic. I know one place where customers come in to browse and the owner won't even get out of his chair to say hi or ask if he can help them with anything. Little wonder that they finally turn around and walk out (and what do you think they'll say to their friends if anyone asks them about that place). I mean crap - if you don't even have prices on the things you're selling and aren't willing to deal with customers, why do you even have a business at all ?

Another problem that is prevalent here is the practise of "business is slow so lets jack the prices up to make as much as we can off the little business we are still getting". I was trying to explain that to a friend the other day (he and his family own a number of businesses in Pattaya). I told him that in the west when things are slow businesses will offer deals/gimmicks to draw customers in. Like 2 for 1 deals, extended "Happy Hour" deals, free pool, free snacks. In Thailand they just raise the prices and then wonder why business gets even worse.

As I mentioned in another thread quite recently, too many businesses also open with the expectation that they will be turning a profit from the minute they open their doors until the end of times. They do not plan on "low seasons", poor product/service, low business volumes and as a result a few months after opening with high hopes, they are closing with dashed dreams.

Like that time tested and true saying goes, If you want to make a small fortune in Thailand, start with a large one !

You ommited official harassment from your list. Once was a Brit had a restaurant near Walking St and it was great, but the requirement to use a certain company to install unnecessary CCTV and other such like made him close in protest.

Also the threat of owners being arrested for so much as handing a customer a drink ( for working ) is a big turn off.

Closed because of pressure to use a certain CCTV company?

sounds like there maybe a bit more to that too be honest.

I never had any harassment issue like that whilst open there.

Yes, there was. You missed and other such like.

I know that businesses had to install it as part of the license requirement, I wasn't hassled but I don't doubt it may have gone on.

[konying]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

Quote unquote. Always remember we cannot judge the future by looking in the rear view mirror. I feel like I am in that movie where tourists went back in time to watch the dinosaurs but were told not to step off of the road. One guy did and stepped on a butterfly and changed the whole future. In all my years I have been through many ups and downs in the economy. I do not recognize the freight train bearing down on us now and I find it scary. My fiat money seems valueless in a sea of printed money sloshing around and it seems the bank does not want to pay me any interest or even want to hold my money on deposit unless its for free or I pay storage. They seem loaded with paper money. I no longer feel in control of my life.

"Once economies world wide start doing better"

yes it of rolls off the tongue so easily doesn't it?

But not once have I read any explanation anywhere as to how this miracle of economies worldwide starting to do better is going to be achieved? Just for starters where are the jobs around the world going to come from (e.g. 44% youth unemployment in Italy, 50% youth unemployment in Spain)

I believe economic cycles are 8 years. 8 years on the up, and 8 on the down.

Not the first time economies went to crap and not the first it recovered

[Briggsy]

For those who hadn't noticed (perhaps those who have rarely ventured beyond the bar beer areas), there are 4 MASSIVE industrial estates, a huge port complex, an oil refinery and a naval base within half an hour's commute of Pattaya.

Pattaya's future prospectives absolutely does not revolve around the vagaries of the go-go bar industry aimed mainly at the middle-aged European male with his bulging waistline and bulging wallet.

[thaibeachlovers]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

Quote unquote. Always remember we cannot judge the future by looking in the rear view mirror. I feel like I am in that movie where tourists went back in time to watch the dinosaurs but were told not to step off of the road. One guy did and stepped on a butterfly and changed the whole future. In all my years I have been through many ups and downs in the economy. I do not recognize the freight train bearing down on us now and I find it scary. My fiat money seems valueless in a sea of printed money sloshing around and it seems the bank does not want to pay me any interest or even want to hold my money on deposit unless its for free or I pay storage. They seem loaded with paper money. I no longer feel in control of my life.

"Once economies world wide start doing better"

yes it of rolls off the tongue so easily doesn't it?

But not once have I read any explanation anywhere as to how this miracle of economies worldwide starting to do better is going to be achieved? Just for starters where are the jobs around the world going to come from (e.g. 44% youth unemployment in Italy, 50% youth unemployment in Spain)

Better get used to it. What with the overbreeding of the human race in general, the introduction of manufacturing robots and the migration of labour from broken countries unemployment is only going to get worse, not better. Only countries that can offer something special are going to do well touristically. Thailand will not do much better than at present in attracting wealthy tourists because the infrastructure is broken. Even guests of the Hilton have to wade in the muck to reach a baht bus when Beach Rd floods after a normal downpour.

[Monkeyrobot]

One of my hobbies here when I see restaurants opening is guessing when they will close. That's pretty naughty, I know. Sometimes I think places will work and then they still don't though. I couldn't have predicted all the Russian places closing before the Ruble crashed.

Problem is every new owner thinks he/ she can do better.

While their business plan and ideas are great , hardly anyone without experience working in Thailand ever considers local staff problems.

Being a business owner myself , I often get out of my skin trying to do good but staff screw it up.

Paying higher than anyone else wages gets more people applying , but does not mean quality staff.

When business pays higher salaries , they also charge higher prices, ie no customers.

With restaurants main problem is cooks/ chefs.

They unreliable alcoholics. One makes great menu and stops showing up to work. Next one does not know the menu and cooks crap.

Akvavit is doing well because owner is the chef, however service staff is always a problem there.

So really , impossible to win

Also getting staff that won't steal from you is also hard to find.

[swissie]

Just my private observation. After (3?) high-seasons, that turned out to be "below expectations", a good number of Farang business owners and potential investors, seem to have decided to wait and see how the next high season turns out, before making any major decisions.

A 4th high season in a row, turning out to be "below expectations", will certainly not be seen as a positive sign by current and future investors concerning Pattaya.

Just food for thought. Cheers..

[joejai]

For those of you that think the Baht is weak at 34 to the dollar. Here's a news flash........the Baht has been over-valued for quite a few years. The target is 40 baht to the USD. It was 44 Baht to the USD 10 years ago, but, that was before the US decided to trash the dollar. Also, a great deal of foreign investment has come into Thailand the past 10 years which has added a false sense of euphoria to the economy, thus driving the Baht higher. That scenario has changed.

Edited August 3, 2015 by joejai