Understanding Your Thai Bf/gf

[jdinasia]

This Is Thailand .... can be used to imply "you'll never get it" ... "it's a crazy place" or "it's a wonderful place" ... or most usually all three

[ProThaiExpat]

TIT does mean "This is Thailand" and I learned to use it from other farang who were trying to tell me to aply mai pen rai, "there really isn't anything you can do about it", "it is the Thai way", "accept it", etc.

[Skipton]

Late to the Conversation here and relative newbie in may aspects, but what I,ve found living and now dating over here is yes I hear phrases such as "When In Thailand" or the oft quoted "Thats not polite" from my partner etc, but its a two way street so these phrases are often bounced back to him.

To be truthful it seems we kind of enjoy learning where are cultural boundaries are so much it now seems I am the one with more Thai sensibilities than him.

Anyway my point being enjoy and revel in the learning process, so far I,ve found it interesting and fun.

[coolestuk]

Hi Chris, I know it is a long time since you posted. Hope things are going well.

Just to say, I've had a Thai boyfriend for almost 3 years, but we live apart because my govt. won't give him a visa to visit me, and I have a business in the UK that I can't leave. I have visited him for 7 months in the last 3 years. It's hard, but we are committed to each other.

When I first met him he spoke no English, and I never expected a relationship to develop. He is about 10 years younger than me (he's 30). I'm surprised by how few cultural differences there have been (especially considering I was the first foreigner he ever met). He never asks for money, but of course we share what we have, and he never wastes money (he always tries to stop me wasting money). He never asks for anything for his family.

I guess the major differences are that he is not really able to be 'up front', combative, assertive. Mostly I am able to work round this, as I am one of the most sensitive people I know (sorry if that sounds conceited - but I am very well-attuned to the people around me). His unassertiveness is not just with regard to me: I see it in his dealings with other Thais, with whom he can be very angry, but he is incapable of expressing this to them (thankfully he is very happy if I complain about something).

His unassertiveness has had ramifications in our relationship, when he has done things that are against the ground rules of our relationship and against his own code of conduct, but he is unable to own up to such things either unprompted or when found out. In one sense, this can just look like duplicity, and I am profoundly affected by deceitfulness, so this has been a major stumbling block for us. I do not think that western expectations of expressions of wrong-doing make any sense to him: Washingon's admission that he was he who chopped down the tree is an alien concept. (I hesitate to say that he is typical of Thai people - I just don't have the same degree of familiarity with other Thais or Thailand).

I think after the major problems we went through over this (which left both of us miserable and hurting for 6 months), we came through it. I see his character is such that he is (quite) unlikely to be able to confess to something he did wrong (I'm not sure he even knows the word or concept 'confess' - which is weird to a Catholic like me). But I also think he knows me and himself well enough to keep himself away from situations where he might do something that he and I would regard as wrong if that thing is something that I have told him I want to know about should it occur.

In my experience, there are not many differences between us, and the one I highlight has been our only source of conflict, and has not been an issue again since it was put to rest 1 year ago. If you are still reading this thread, I hope that this is of some help to you.

[Ijustwannateach]

Hey, guys. I've mainly been over on the teacher's forum but I'm a member of the family, too. Nice to meet all of you.

I've been living here for a few years, and I was a tourist previously. It's a whole different ball game living and working here, and you learn a lot- some things you might not really want to know.

Chris, I agree that the age difference is not by itself an issue- because a lot of the guys here are REALLY looking for someone older (I've been told several times I'm too young!) But it does mean that personality, expectations, etc. are different. And if you expect anyone under 25 in Thailand to be monogamous you're just fooling yourself.

The dishonesty thing seems endemic to Thailand- I'm not afraid to say it. They don't LOOK at it as lying, and there are a lot of "cultural coping mechanisms" to disguise it from themselves as lying, but basically, it's lying. The best ones will merely try hard to avoid expressing things they'd rather not express, and if you read between the lines to see what they're saying and don't pressure them to lose face, you can get the information you want without upsetting anyone.

For example, I started dating a guy recently and I almost immediately realized there was a financial problem- the guy had more money than he should have for his occupation/age. I approached it somewhat indirectly (after I saw he had the compaq portable computer!) and told him there were some things I would have to know about him if we were going to get serious, and did he mind if we discussed them- and he replied that it would be better if we didn't talk about those things- which gave me my answer and avoided any direct embarrassment. We're still friends and still date, but I don't let myself get too serious with him, and I'm grateful for his relative "honesty."

I've heard some amazing stories here, though, and there are both real stinkers and real angels out there.

"Steven"

[ChrisP]

Steven and coolstuk..

Many thanks for your adds to this post!

Yes, you're both right about the "lying" and save-face issues. I've seen both.

I'm now dating a Thai guy who is VERY Westernised.. speaks excellent English (his Mum is a teacher) and is able to be assertive with his own opinions.. and also apologizes and tells me/admits when he thinks he's done something wrong too... VERY unlike my last bf. So, this feels good right now

Btw, with one guy, I discovered we could talk about "taboo" subjects by e-mail.. but not face-to-face... Oh well. Better than nothing, I suppose!

Chris

[ProThaiExpat]

coolestuk: Your so right on!!! I wish I could have said it as well as you. Since most of us have experienced the traits you spoke of, I will venture to say it is a "cultural thing".

We who cme from Christian-Judean cultures just have different values than most Thais. I am not well enough versed in Thai culture to ascribe "lying" to "saving face" issue, but in "old" Japan, for example, anything will be agreed too, to save "face" of the speaker or he who is addressed. Promises will be made with no intention of following through, all to save "face". Perhaps this is part of the issue here?

I have compartmentalized the "money" aspect of my life now, and just don't get into it my my Thai. That is the way I have got through it. "Don't ask, Don't tell" seems to work in this regard. If you just remove money from the relationship equation, as we do with most friends, it seems to work, at least for me.

Example: My Thai is an avid tennis player. I pay for that endeavor. Daily money for court fees, balls, stringing, etc. Averages about 4k a month. Tired of giving money for this purpose everyday, I gave it all at once at the beginning of the month. Attendance at tennis as halved in frequency since then, explanation "Olypics" and tennis partner had death in family and is visiting Issan.

Next month will tell. Question: What do I do, back to the daily payment, or just forget it and make the 4k payment without thinking about it? Is it really any of my business what is done with the money, once it is given? Am I being a control freak to try to follow the money trail?

Most housewives in western countries have a "cookie jar" where small amounts of cash are sequestered out of the family budget without question. Why not here?

[orchis]

I think concepts like lying, confessing and guilt are maybe different here, also there seems to be many times a expectation of social/economical betterment involved in romantic relations. Thus for two people of different cultures to meet will also bring many times painful confrontation, at least for one of the two.

Guilt or not, regardless, I have a hard time with this and it seems I m not alone.

When something doesnt feel right (any more) I just cant continue.

[Ijustwannateach]

ProThai,

Like you said to me on another thread, it's up to you. If it's an arrangement both you and your bf can live with, so much the better for you both, and cheers. It makes me wonder, though- tennis is not a poor man's game- why does your bf need someone ELSE to pay for it? If he has the leisure to play tennis, who's paying for his food, rent, [education?], other expenses? If it's ALL you, and he has no job, then you're awfully generous. I hope you're the *only* one paying for him.

"Steven"