Hundreds Of Foreigners Stuck On The Closed Myanmar Border

[Lacoste]

Sorry , but as non english speaking person I am unsure about the meaning of SKINT. IS it similar to TRAMP or BEGGAR? Am I right?

If yes, and as a border runner since 5 years, I felt offended.

So , allow me to ask you some questions:

1) do you live in thailand? And if yes what are the reasons of you stay here? I do live in Thailand, because the cost of the life allow me to compete with Indians and Chinese in my field (IT).

2) Do you provide a net income of foriegn currency to this country but the simple fact of your presence (mean noone but you can provide this net income)? I do, because the clients I had in France are those I have here, and they will still be my clients when I will go somewhere else. The fact to be in Thailand have only changed their status from extra income to main income.

so when are you leaving thailand seems so you are too cheap to pay taxes?

3) If you live in Thailand, do you have a legal bank account in a thai bank? Important question because legally a tourist is not allowed to have a bank account, in my case I have a bank account in SCB since 2002.

4) In case you already have a bank account, do you have also a Thai credit card? Important question, because it's not that easy to get one ... I know because I had to wait one month after I applied in 2003 to get mine, and so yes I have thai CC.

you must be so proud

5) As you are not a member of the skint association of the visa runner, I do suppose you are a legal long stayer and by so pay regulary taxes to the thai governement. Do you? Because in my case I do.

How can you pay taxes if you do not have a work permit and non B visa?

So , even if I am a visa runner since 2002, I do not feel to be a skint or a scumbag. I am simply in a category that does not exist in the thai law, and by so I am not able to apply for any visa other than the tourist one (60 days + 30 in prolongation) or the VOA. Due the fact I can not be far of my work for more than some few hours, the only option for me is the VOA (go to border, checkout, enter in a neiborought country,check out, check in in thai border and come back to bangkok just in time time to say good morning to my floridian client.

So please be mesured in your words, or you will make a fool of yourself.

P.S. In my case, applying for a non B would be a scam, as I am not looking for employment (I am self employed), raising artificially my incomes to be able to pay to my self a pseudo salary would be also a scam. Maybe I am a fool me too, but I prefered to stand by the law. The VOA was a way to stay here that existed before I came here, and I always documented (even if there is no requiment to do so) when I was at the border the reasons why I wished to came back in bangkok : not to visit Nana temples, but simply make some money to enter in the country.

so you make less than 50000baht per month? That i the amount a falang has to earn to recieve a work permit. Maybe less for the french not sure.

QUOTE So please be mesured in your words, or you will make a fool of yourself.

Maybe you should take your own advice. By your own admition you have been working illegally for 5 years and not paid any taxes.

You have given the most feeble excuse for tax evasion. Do you really think you will get sympathy. Pay taxes and then you have no problems.

Get a non b visa and work permit and pay your taxes. If you cannot afford to do that then go home. This is exactly the sort of people that are now stuck there. While they have my sympathy what the hel_l did people like you expect.

See my reply above incase you need clarification. I personally always took my 20000baht with me when I did the visa run every 90 days but the amount of people who looked like they did not have 10 baht was amazing.

Sorry about the rant but this is exactly why people are in a bad situation now because they do not follow the rules and when the Thais (fully aware this situation is because of the Burma side) decide to enforce the rule you wonder why......we are guests in there country and if they say jump the correct responce is how high? not why?

I do pay taxes, Lamluka Taxe office, and that since november 2002.

I am proud to have a thai CC, the forum is full of people crying because they were turning down in their local bank branch , even to apply for a saving account. Not my case. Just go yourself to your local bank, and ask for a thai CC or simply ask them to tell you the rules to have a thai CC (I do agree it's a useless piece of plastic used only to pay Big C or Lotus, but the rules to have it are clear and simple : no tourist can have it, and there is also a minimum amount -150 000 bht in my time can have changed- ... as I am not bragging I precise my bank is SCB Tong Lohr). I am proud not because I have a CC, but because I was entitled to apply for and I get it. In my brain (I can be wrong) it always make a difference with those pretending and those being. It also always eased relation with thai people : have a thai CC mean you do have a reason to be here that is not the bargirls ,nor the beer, nor the night life.

Why do I pay taxes and do not have a WP? As yo usaid I earn less than 60 000 bht per month, and by so my WP was denied. On the other hand, as legally I am not bound to pay taxes (I do outsourcing work for US companies, I am not selling any goods and by so not bound to any taxes here), the simple fact to state I considered fair and honest for me to pay taxes and doing so since end of 2002 have certainly ease my situation (amongst the documents I show to the border are my registration in the taxe office with the receipt of the payments).

I always follow the rules, and when I do not know the rules, I ask the people who should know. I am not stuck here, I am leaving because I am well aware the rules have changed and what was true yesterday will be untrue tomorrow.

What make me sick is the way some people here take to judge others. I do not decide who is a legal or non legal stayers, but the thai administration do. If the thai administration assume someone like me, a low life person, is usefull for a time to the country, you do not have to judge. The day they decide I am not usefull I have to agree and leave by myself (that what I am doing within 90 days). But at the end, in 2015 we will see who will be in thailand, me with my low life profile (if my supposition to be able to come back is true), or you with your supposed higher profile (if my supposition the rules on the condo owners andretired person will changes too is true). Anyway a high profile person like you will certainly move to Monaco or French Riviera, if yes feel free to contact me, I do own a 2 rooms appartment Garibaldi street in Monaco, and 2 houses in Frejus (var). Downfall the houses are located at 4 kn of the sea but the bus are often and of good quality. So simply do not assume that much about the 30 days VOA runners.

If your greatest achievment thus far in Thailand is to have obtained a Thai bank account and credit card then i feel great pitty for you.

[taxexile]

surely , if a motley crew of falangs of various nationalities are stuck in a no mans land between two countries , with little or no money to pay for food and accommodation then they become either 'refugees' or if burma really wont let them out , 'hostages'

the embassies of the countries of the victims of this misfortune should be informed and surely it becomes their duty to help them.

i find it hard to believe that either burma would still be keeping these people or that thailand would be refusing them entry two days after the event.

[tartempion]

So if you're stuck at the Club Andaman on Thahtay Kyun Island, I wonder who's collecting the bill for accommodation? Many of the visa runners I've met haven't got 2 baht to rub together

Those who I've met there had enough to spend in the casino though.

We obviousely don't frequent the same friends when taking the aircon boat to the casino island hotel (and get a stamp as a by product)

Did youy know you can stay for free in the hotel if you stay overnight to play in their casino though?

And this "a few hundred farangs who can not return to Thailand" is probably just a lie, until someone can confirm this really happened.

Some of you guys are over the top with your crap.

Edited September 22, 2006 by tartempion

[chingching]

Can anybody confirm that Laotian border comment... or is that just bullshit....?

L

i crossed on 21st no problem,

[Samuian]

Isn't the Club Andaman served by (daily?) Bangkok Airways flights from Bangkok or even Puket?

But then, it makes me wonder that here is (yet) no response from anyone who GOT stuck in Myanmar.

And it got to be quite a number of people going throught this border check point day by day..

Why should Myanmar Authorities cause themselves such trouble - as it seems that they are somehow working together, it would make sense to anyone involved, to let them first go and then close down the border crossing.

Next I can imagine that they are stuck on the Thai side not being able to ENTER Burma - to do their Visa run.

Still wonder that there is no reply here on this.

Edited September 22, 2006 by Samuian

[gotte]

You would have to stay at the government sanctioned Honey Bee Hotel. Overpriced about 5 times what you would pay for a similar hotel in Thailand.

I reckon I would go overland to Rangoon. Burma is quiet tourist friendly these days. Feel sorry for those border runners that do the trip with 300b in their pocket. No ATMs.

Who in the right mind crosses ANY border with just 300 baht spare to their name !!

Surely these are the guys Thailand are trying to offload ??

Chivas

Normaly you wouldn't even set your feet on the ground in Myanmar - it's a 15 minute wait on the boat 'till the crew arrange the stamps in and back out. I've met plenty that hadn't got enough cash to pay for a few days overstay checking out of Thailand. I've usually only got a couple of thousand baht on me - what would I need more for ?

My next 90 day run is due in November - I'll go prepared from now on.

I hope you go to an Thai embassy to make a visa because of the new rules that maybe will start from 1/10-06 That will mean if i understand correctly you only get 90 days on arrival one time! then have to wait 6 months if you don't get a 90 days at a thai embassy abroad!

[gudy]

A very good example of why visa runs are not a good idea...........

Tell me what is your solution then....

[geoffphuket]

You would have to stay at the government sanctioned Honey Bee Hotel. Overpriced about 5 times what you would pay for a similar hotel in Thailand.

I reckon I would go overland to Rangoon. Burma is quiet tourist friendly these days. Feel sorry for those border runners that do the trip with 300b in their pocket. No ATMs.

Who in the right mind crosses ANY border with just 300 baht spare to their name !!

Surely these are the guys Thailand are trying to offload ??

Chivas

Normaly you wouldn't even set your feet on the ground in Myanmar - it's a 15 minute wait on the boat 'till the crew arrange the stamps in and back out. I've met plenty that hadn't got enough cash to pay for a few days overstay checking out of Thailand. I've usually only got a couple of thousand baht on me - what would I need more for ?

My next 90 day run is due in November - I'll go prepared from now on.

I hope you go to an Thai embassy to make a visa because of the new rules that maybe will start from 1/10-06 That will mean if i understand correctly you only get 90 days on arrival one time! then have to wait 6 months if you don't get a 90 days at a thai embassy abroad!

I have a multple entry non immigrant 'O' visa - good for a 15 month stay, with visa runs every 90 days to Myanmar. I won't need to buy a new visa until Nov 2007.

[sunspot]

Although the Mae Sai Myanmar border is closed in the north, Thai Immigration in Mae Sai realizes the problem and is giving 30 day extensions. You have to go the the Mae Sai Thai Immigration office for the stamp (not the border). This news is as of today at 12 noon from farang at the border.

[JimsKnight]

Sh*t! I always wondered if you could travel overland from there. That could become tedious after a few hours, let alone days. I suppose most foreigners can got to the Anderman Club. It must have ATMs

The loose women of the town will be lovin' it, theres bound to be a few sugar daddies with time to kill and money to burn!

[terry57]

what I really like is the better than thou attitudes by those people one step above being a loser.

Try to stop being such a buzzkill

sorry fella,

dont quite get your point here.?

are you saying that all the punters without work permits are losers. ?

a very harsh assesment if you are and untrue in fact. i know many people who operate this way who are very highly qualified professionals. ( diving industry people )

are you saying the ones with work permits are one step above the said losers. ?

dont quite make sense, but maybe someone can explain your profession's to me.

cheers

[Samuian]

Ah, here we go the divers, working, no WP, no BV and here with because they are working, not exactly underground, but underwater, put's them straight above the LAW - I love you guys, errrrrr, your attitude!

[terry57]

Ah, here we go the divers, working, no WP, no BV and here with because they are working, not exactly underground, but underwater, put's them straight above the LAW - I love you guys, errrrrr, your attitude!

im a bit confused again samuian,

what do you mean ?

im not in the diving game now, but am well informed of the situation regards a lot of these people.

a huge amount of money has been injected into the thai peoples pocket through this industry with the majority of dive instructors working illegally.

koh tao for example.

locals have become rich beyond there wildest dreams on the back of this industry.

life is a trade off and these dive industry people have had a very nice life operating as visa runners but the party is over.

it certainly does'nt put them above the law and nor should it.

cheers

[scoey50]

You would have to stay at the government sanctioned Honey Bee Hotel. Overpriced about 5 times what you would pay for a similar hotel in Thailand.

I reckon I would go overland to Rangoon. Burma is quiet tourist friendly these days. Feel sorry for those border runners that do the trip with 300b in their pocket. No ATMs.

The only way to leave Kaw Thaung is by plane. cannot go overland. Anyway we're talking about The Andaman Club, not Kaw Thaung

[scoey50]

How can hundreds of visa runners be stuck in Myanmar? It doesn't make sense. Most visa runners do not get off the boat for more than five minutes.

They are saying that Myanmar closed the border and at that second there were hundreds of visa runners who had just stamped into Myamar but they would not let them stamp out again? I don't think so. I guess there are those who went to the casino but that cannot be hundreds.

Surely it is more likely that the people stuck include Thais and people who have been travelling across Myanmar and now want to come to Thailand.

Get it straight. There are two border corssings to Myanmar from Ranong. There is Kaw Thaung and there is the Andman Club, which is a casino. Only recently has the Andaman Clud been accessable to peole from the gulf.

[Khutan]

...a huge amount of money has been injected into the thai peoples pocket through this industry with the majority of dive instructors working illegally....

Yes, its nice that I pay so much tax so these people can scam they system and not pay tax.

Its like wanting to be a member of a club and not want to pay the fee's. To go and get a Non-B visa is very easy, and a WP is just as easy, only problem for the Visa Runners is they don't want to spend the money, pay the tax and invest the time to be legal.

[terry57]

...a huge amount of money has been injected into the thai peoples pocket through this industry with the majority of dive instructors working illegally....

Yes, its nice that I pay so much tax so these people can scam they system and not pay tax.

Its like wanting to be a member of a club and not want to pay the fee's. To go and get a Non-B visa is very easy, and a WP is just as easy, only problem for the Visa Runners is they don't want to spend the money, pay the tax and invest the time to be legal.

yes i agree totally,

and was not sticking up for them but just stating the facts.

further more the locals were not paying tax either so they were all scaming the system.

the locals that did pay tax paid very little as it was very easy to cook the books so to speak.

this is still occuring and an accepted practice amoungst local dive operators but the authoritys are cracking down.

[Khutan]

...yes i agree totally,

and was not sticking up for them but just stating the facts....

Yes, and I was adding to your original comment I agree with.

I mean if they are stuck on the Island, is Thailand really the only place you can get a boat to ?

If on the mainland, it must be the only international airport that only has one destination.

Or is it rather "I came here for a cheap visa run and now I am stuck" If it is this case then SOM-NUM-NA

[george]

Do we want to go on-topic here?

Thanks!

/Admin

[Unknown]

Another painful example why border runs is not the way to stay in Thailand.

And should not be the way.

I actually do not pity them at all...

[cutter007]

Not the safest or easiest thing in the world, but couldn't some of them (the adventurous ones) hide away in a Burmese fishing boat, and then jump off and swim when they get near the Thai coast.

I know I would do that before I tried to make my way to Rangoon on 500 baht.

It sounds as thou it is only the Burmese that closed the border, so the Thai immigration shouldn't have a problem with it.

Anyways there are no patrols on the Thai coast you only have to go to the immigration down the road and get your stamp.

It would be the same as if you pulled up in a yacht from Malaysia, just minus the boat.

You would be leaving Burma illegally, but seeing as how their government is an abusive military dictatorship, it would be the moral equivalent of cheating at a game of cards with Hitler.

[jdinasia]

Am not sure ... but I think that they would want to see both an entry and exit stamp from Myanmar. Otherwise ... why leave at all

[jdinasia]

Another painful example why border runs is not the way to stay in Thailand.

And should not be the way.

I actually do not pity them at all...

Pardon me? Are you assuming that they are ALL LONGSTAYERS? or that they are all doing 30 day border-hops? Are you assuming that some are not non-imm holding wp carrying folks doing a 90 day run? Are you assuming that some are not just TOURISTS? Are you assuming that some didn't just decide to go to Andaman Club and gamble for the afternoon or over night?

UGH!!!

[Heng]

Not the safest or easiest thing in the world, but couldn't some of them (the adventurous ones) hide away in a Burmese fishing boat, and then jump off and swim when they get near the Thai coast.

I know I would do that before I tried to make my way to Rangoon on 500 baht.

It sounds as thou it is only the Burmese that closed the border, so the Thai immigration shouldn't have a problem with it.

Sounds like a great idea.

[cutter007]

Am not sure ... but I think that they would want to see both an entry and exit stamp from Myanmar. Otherwise ... why leave at all

I am just going on the assumption that the Thai immigration are only concerned that you leave Thailand. An entry stamp into Burma, dated after any Thai stamp would effectively mean that.

I definitely think there would be some head shaking at Thai immigration, but I highly doubt they would deport you to Burma.

My thoughts would be, would I like to sit in some town in a country known for shutting down borders for undisclosed periods of time. (basically you are limbo, it could open tomorrow, or it could open next week, or even next month, they simply don't know). Or would I rather be sitting in front of Thai immigration with a couple of annoyed immigration officers, because I don't have an exit stamp.

I would choose the second option, but that is just me. (and I think it would be a cool story to tell)How did you come into Thailand "I swam.......literally"

[jdinasia]

third option .... sitting in Thai immigration jail with the Burmese in Ranong .... I'd stick it out in a hotel in Myanmar

[serpentine]

That water in infested with bull sharks. Really. Not a problem really but ask the average fisherman. You don't swim in clouded fresh water estuaries with fishing industry...........then again could be better than been stuck for weeks in no mans' land!

[geoffphuket]

I would guess that most, if not all, that immigration say are stranded, are actually at the Andaman Club and casino. That would be both guests, visa runners and hotel staff and would account for the several hundred mentioned.

[serpentine]

Whether you like "those" people, or the new Taksin "vision" of Thailand don't like them, I can say after many years here that they are a cross section of tourists from all over, a few working illegally perhaps. Any BAD stories of what happens to any single one of them will makke the foreign media, and generally only BAD stories sell as big news, so it will be detrimental to Thailands' image...........rightly or wrongly.

[alex_4000]

Hundreds of foreigners stuck on the closed Myanmar border

PHUKET CITY: -- An Immigration officer based in Ranong confirmed by telephone this morning that it is still impossible to make “visa runs” to the Burmese port town of Kaw Thaung, across the bay from Ranong.

The officer, who said he had no idea when the border would reopen, suggested visa runners whose permits-to-stay are set to expire consider using crossings along the borders with Malaysia, Cambodia or Laos instead.

He recommended first checking with the foreign affairs ministries of those countries before starting out, however.

“It is beyond our authority whether Immigration officials in neighboring countries choose to close border checkpoints,” he warned.

A few hundred foreign tourists remain stuck on the Myanmar side of the border since the checkpoint closure, he added.

Myint Than, operator at the Andaman Club resort and casino complex on Thahtay Kyun Island in Myanmar, also opposite Ranong, this afternoon confirmed that the border checkpoint there remains closed.

“We don’t know when it will re-open,” she told the Gazette.

--Phuket Gazette 2006-09-21

am i missing something?

the article never said it was visa runners who got stuck in burma...?!

as far as i know: if you decide for the optional walk into burma when on a visa run, you are not supposed to leave the place anyway and have to go back to thailand the same day

(that was the case in myawaddy/mae sot, might have changed.)

i reckon these "100s of foreigners" are mainly tourists travelling SEA who could simply not cross into thailand

visa runners will be the lads that get stuck on the thai side of the border, right?

that might explain, too, why we dont hear from any of the few 100s that got stranded in burma, on this forum...?

Edited September 22, 2006 by alex_4000