Gas cylinders in deep South to be changed for security

[webfact]

SOUTH CRISIS
Gas cylinders in deep South to be changed for security
Nakarin Chinworakomon,
Kantamanee Baingern
The Nation

Southern restaurants complain the new canister is too small for them

BANGKOK: -- RESTAURANTS and households in the three southern border provinces and four Songkhla districts have been urged to gradually change from using the 15-kilogram metal cooking-gas cylinder to the 11kg composite-plus cylinder before the October 1, 2016, deadline.

This change has been introduced for security purposes.

An owner of a cooking-gas shop in Narathiwat's Sungai Kolok district told The Nation that people were already making the change.

But while households will not have any trouble making the switch - with the composite cylinder costing Bt340 compared to Bt435 for a metal cylinder - restaurants have complained the composite cylinder is too small.

Cooking-gas shop owners are worried about their business being affected, because some operators have been refilling metal gas cylinders for their customers, especially for restaurants. Restaurants prefer the metal ones because they are bigger.

She also urged the government to extend this policy regionwide. Staff at a cooking-gas shop in Pattani's Sai Buri district said the business made the shift to selling the composite cylinder a year ago as most cylinders are supplied by PTT Pcl.

However, they said there is a limited number of composite cylinders - which are only provided by PTT - meaning the changeover has occurred at a slow pace.

Safer option

The move will make the public safer as metal gas cylinders are often used in bomb attacks in the restive region, Colonel Pramote Phrom-in, spokesman for the Internal Security Operations Command Region 4 Front Command, said yesterday.

He said the "necessary" transition according to government guidelines on public safety had resulted in the Front Command discussing the matter with relevant agencies and it had being resolved that all residents in the deep South should gradually shift to the composite cylinder.

He said metal cylinders would be recalled gradually and allocated for use outside this region, and strict controls on the cylinders inside and outside the region will be implemented. LPG refilling factories and stations will be monitored to prevent gas smuggling, he added.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Gas-cylinders-in-deep-South-to-be-changed-for-secu-30265848.html


-- The Nation 2015-08-04

[ezzra]

So what? composite cylinders can't be blown up with detonators? maybe less damage, but still

damage non the less....and so instead one cylinder they will use two of them, where is the solution

here?

[worgeordie]

So if insurgents want metal gas cylinders,they wont bring them from other

provinces?,another, ill thought out policy,

regards Worgeordie

[halloween]

So what? composite cylinders can't be blown up with detonators? maybe less damage, but still

damage non the less....and so instead one cylinder they will use two of them, where is the solution

here?

You seem to concentrate on the volume, rather than the material. I can only assume a steel cylinder would produce much more effective shrapnel, and also lends itself to modification far more than a composite version.

[Seastallion]

Somehow I doubt I will get a 95 baht refund when I swap over.

[Estrada]

So what? composite cylinders can't be blown up with detonators? maybe less damage, but still

damage non the less....and so instead one cylinder they will use two of them, where is the solution

here?

No... they are explosion proof. Check the manufactures web sites.

[Estrada]

"Gas cylinders in deep South to be changed for security".

The insurgents are laughing as they will now have a lot of old metal gas cylinders at give away prices!

Edited August 4, 2015 by Estrada

[Srikcir]

Maybe this policy will motivate insurgents to switch to pressure cookers.

Easy to purchase, easy to conceal in a backpack and carry more sharpnel than a metal gas cylinder casing.

Look at the Boston Marathon bombing.

[jossthaifarang]

So what? composite cylinders can't be blown up with detonators? maybe less damage, but still

damage non the less....and so instead one cylinder they will use two of them, where is the solution

here?

No... they are explosion proof. Check the manufactures web sites.

Mate, I'm no explosives expert but common sense tells me that surly nothing filled with a highly explosive gas can be explosion proof, sure they might be strong as hell and spark proof, but anything that can crack the shell and produce a spark will turn that thing into an explosive device.

Sure you will have less shrapnel, but it will still make a nice big hole in the ground. Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong?

Below is a link to a page stating they are explosion proof even when engulfed in fire:

http://www.litesafecylinders.com/

My theory is: If that thing was sitting in a fire according to the manufacturer it would be ok. What if I then shot it with an armor piercing bullet?

So again, surly nothing compressed with an explosive gas can be explosion proof?

[halloween]

Mate, I'm no explosives expert but common sense tells me that surly nothing filled with a highly explosive gas can be explosion proof, sure they might be strong as hell and spark proof, but anything that can crack the shell and produce a spark will turn that thing into an explosive device.

Sure you will have less shrapnel, but it will still make a nice big hole in the ground. Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong?

Below is a link to a page stating they are explosion proof even when engulfed in fire:

http://www.litesafecylinders.com/

My theory is: If that thing was sitting in a fire according to the manufacturer it would be ok. What if I then shot it with an armor piercing bullet?

So again, surly nothing compressed with an explosive gas can be explosion proof?

If you shot it with a jacketed bullet it would have a hole in it, possibly two. Escaping gas might ignite given a source, but not explode. Explosive gases are explosive over a certain, usually wide, range of ratios with oxygen. When the ratio is outside the explosive range, either too much gas or not enough, an explosion won't occur.

The reason the cylinder doesn't explode in a fire is that it has a relief valve (a fancy name for a hole) which allow the expanding gas exit (where it will burn) fast enough to prevent internal pressure to rise high enough to rupture the cylinder. This is probably because it is both stronger and less heat conductive than steel. Heat conductive steel can cause such a rapid pressure increase as to overwhelm the relief valve capability, but I have seen one in a fire that survived by venting gas, quite spectacularly.

If you remember Jaws, when they shot a compresses air cylinder - it was pure Hollywood BS.

Edited August 4, 2015 by halloween

[jossthaifarang]

Mate, I'm no explosives expert but common sense tells me that surly nothing filled with a highly explosive gas can be explosion proof, sure they might be strong as hell and spark proof, but anything that can crack the shell and produce a spark will turn that thing into an explosive device.

Sure you will have less shrapnel, but it will still make a nice big hole in the ground. Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong?

Below is a link to a page stating they are explosion proof even when engulfed in fire:

http://www.litesafecylinders.com/

My theory is: If that thing was sitting in a fire according to the manufacturer it would be ok. What if I then shot it with an armor piercing bullet?

So again, surly nothing compressed with an explosive gas can be explosion proof?

If you shot it with a jacketed bullet it would have a hole in it, possibly two. Escaping gas might ignite given a source, but not explode. Explosive gases are explosive over a certain, usually wide, range of ratios with oxygen. When the ratio is outside the explosive range, either too much gas or not enough, an explosion won't occur.

The reason the cylinder doesn't explode in a fire is that it has a relief valve (a fancy name for a hole) which allow the expanding gas exit (where it will burn) fast enough to prevent internal pressure to rise high enough to rupture the cylinder. This is probably because it is both stronger and less heat conductive than steel. Heat conductive steel can cause such a rapid pressure increase as to overwhelm the relief valve capability, but I have seen one in a fire that survived by venting gas, quite spectacularly.

If you remember Jaws, when they shot a compresses air cylinder - it was pure Hollywood BS.

Yes mate I'm well aware of LEL and UEL, the point is it would escape fast enough and mix with enough outside air to make a pretty big bang. In fact, I feel a homemade Mythbusters coming on.. Keep watching this space, I'm dying to prove my theory..

[halloween]

Mate, I'm no explosives expert but common sense tells me that surly nothing filled with a highly explosive gas can be explosion proof, sure they might be strong as hell and spark proof, but anything that can crack the shell and produce a spark will turn that thing into an explosive device.

Sure you will have less shrapnel, but it will still make a nice big hole in the ground. Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong?

Below is a link to a page stating they are explosion proof even when engulfed in fire:

http://www.litesafecylinders.com/

My theory is: If that thing was sitting in a fire according to the manufacturer it would be ok. What if I then shot it with an armor piercing bullet?

So again, surly nothing compressed with an explosive gas can be explosion proof?

If you shot it with a jacketed bullet it would have a hole in it, possibly two. Escaping gas might ignite given a source, but not explode. Explosive gases are explosive over a certain, usually wide, range of ratios with oxygen. When the ratio is outside the explosive range, either too much gas or not enough, an explosion won't occur.

The reason the cylinder doesn't explode in a fire is that it has a relief valve (a fancy name for a hole) which allow the expanding gas exit (where it will burn) fast enough to prevent internal pressure to rise high enough to rupture the cylinder. This is probably because it is both stronger and less heat conductive than steel. Heat conductive steel can cause such a rapid pressure increase as to overwhelm the relief valve capability, but I have seen one in a fire that survived by venting gas, quite spectacularly.

If you remember Jaws, when they shot a compresses air cylinder - it was pure Hollywood BS.

Yes mate I'm well aware of LEL and UEL, the point is it would escape fast enough and mix with enough outside air to make a pretty big bang. In fact, I feel a homemade Mythbusters coming on.. Keep watching this space, I'm dying to prove my theory..

If it was inventing into a confined space with an ignition source, possibly. Into open air, even with an ignition source at the perfect distance, you probably won't get more than a big POP. Good luck, send us the video.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Mate, I'm no explosives expert but common sense tells me that surly nothing filled with a highly explosive gas can be explosion proof, sure they might be strong as hell and spark proof, but anything that can crack the shell and produce a spark will turn that thing into an explosive device.

Sure you will have less shrapnel, but it will still make a nice big hole in the ground. Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong?

Below is a link to a page stating they are explosion proof even when engulfed in fire:

http://www.litesafecylinders.com/

My theory is: If that thing was sitting in a fire according to the manufacturer it would be ok. What if I then shot it with an armor piercing bullet?

So again, surly nothing compressed with an explosive gas can be explosion proof?

If you shot it with a jacketed bullet it would have a hole in it, possibly two. Escaping gas might ignite given a source, but not explode. Explosive gases are explosive over a certain, usually wide, range of ratios with oxygen. When the ratio is outside the explosive range, either too much gas or not enough, an explosion won't occur.

The reason the cylinder doesn't explode in a fire is that it has a relief valve (a fancy name for a hole) which allow the expanding gas exit (where it will burn) fast enough to prevent internal pressure to rise high enough to rupture the cylinder. This is probably because it is both stronger and less heat conductive than steel. Heat conductive steel can cause such a rapid pressure increase as to overwhelm the relief valve capability, but I have seen one in a fire that survived by venting gas, quite spectacularly.

If you remember Jaws, when they shot a compresses air cylinder - it was pure Hollywood BS.

Yes mate I'm well aware of LEL and UEL, the point is it would escape fast enough and mix with enough outside air to make a pretty big bang. In fact, I feel a homemade Mythbusters coming on.. Keep watching this space, I'm dying to prove my theory..

If it was inventing into a confined space with an ignition source, possibly. Into open air, even with an ignition source at the perfect distance, you probably won't get more than a big POP. Good luck, send us the video.

They dont blow up gas filled cylinders they use empty ones and fill them with explosives. The prefered detonation method is via stolen mobile phone (thats the reason for registering your sim now) and the devices are transported on/in stolen motor cycles or pick up trucks. If there are no more steel gas cylinders left they will just use pipe bombs.

[jossthaifarang]

Mate, I'm no explosives expert but common sense tells me that surly nothing filled with a highly explosive gas can be explosion proof, sure they might be strong as hell and spark proof, but anything that can crack the shell and produce a spark will turn that thing into an explosive device.

Sure you will have less shrapnel, but it will still make a nice big hole in the ground. Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong?

Below is a link to a page stating they are explosion proof even when engulfed in fire:

http://www.litesafecylinders.com/

My theory is: If that thing was sitting in a fire according to the manufacturer it would be ok. What if I then shot it with an armor piercing bullet?

So again, surly nothing compressed with an explosive gas can be explosion proof?

If you shot it with a jacketed bullet it would have a hole in it, possibly two. Escaping gas might ignite given a source, but not explode. Explosive gases are explosive over a certain, usually wide, range of ratios with oxygen. When the ratio is outside the explosive range, either too much gas or not enough, an explosion won't occur.

The reason the cylinder doesn't explode in a fire is that it has a relief valve (a fancy name for a hole) which allow the expanding gas exit (where it will burn) fast enough to prevent internal pressure to rise high enough to rupture the cylinder. This is probably because it is both stronger and less heat conductive than steel. Heat conductive steel can cause such a rapid pressure increase as to overwhelm the relief valve capability, but I have seen one in a fire that survived by venting gas, quite spectacularly.

If you remember Jaws, when they shot a compresses air cylinder - it was pure Hollywood BS.

Yes mate I'm well aware of LEL and UEL, the point is it would escape fast enough and mix with enough outside air to make a pretty big bang. In fact, I feel a homemade Mythbusters coming on.. Keep watching this space, I'm dying to prove my theory..

If it was inventing into a confined space with an ignition source, possibly. Into open air, even with an ignition source at the perfect distance, you probably won't get more than a big POP. Good luck, send us the video.

Righto mate, I'll have to find a place where I wont get arrested for it first..

[Brian Robson]

I have in fact blown up a 19Kg LPG cylinder back in the 70's with a mere 2Kgs of weedkiller and sugar. The effect was devastating, blowing a two meter deep and three meter wide crater in a beach. 100 yards away I could feel a powerful ground shock and the blast was heard 8 Kms away!

Just heating a gas cylinder is not that effective, but would produce a nasty fireball if it ruptures. Explosives inside a metal cylinder cause much more damage, creating shrapnel and causing a shock wave. Composite cylinders do not fragment as they are of a woven design and remain in one piece. LPG cylinders are deigned for working pressures around 10 Bar (Atmospheres) with a test pressure of 20 Bar. However industrial gas cylinders Oxygen/Argon etc. operate up to 200 Bar, so the restrictions will be ineffective if not making things worse!

[halloween]

I have in fact blown up a 19Kg LPG cylinder back in the 70's with a mere 2Kgs of weedkiller and sugar. The effect was devastating, blowing a two meter deep and three meter wide crater in a beach. 100 yards away I could feel a powerful ground shock and the blast was heard 8 Kms away!

Just heating a gas cylinder is not that effective, but would produce a nasty fireball if it ruptures. Explosives inside a metal cylinder cause much more damage, creating shrapnel and causing a shock wave. Composite cylinders do not fragment as they are of a woven design and remain in one piece. LPG cylinders are deigned for working pressures around 10 Bar (Atmospheres) with a test pressure of 20 Bar. However industrial gas cylinders Oxygen/Argon etc. operate up to 200 Bar, so the restrictions will be ineffective if not making things worse!

In Oz industrial gas cylinders are rented, and you have to have an account. Not sure if the same here. I suppose they could be stolen, but far from as common as LPG.

[derator01]

A few off topic posts have been removed from view.