Land prices increase in Chiang Mai / Mae Rim

[MastaMak]

I've been looking for land to build a house recently, approximately 1 or 2 rai. I've found that the prices have gone totally mad.

I talked to a lot of land owners who own land in the area I'm interests in (which is between Chiang Mai near convention center and Mae Rim), and the prices have gone crazy in comparison to what they paid.

A person I know owns land in rural Mar Rim (around this area: https://www.google.co.th/maps/@18.9400509,98.9721229,16z?hl=en ) paid about 700-800k baht per rai only 2 years ago. I've been looking at 5 different plots in that area and all were asking for 2-4 million for a rai.

Another person owns land near the convention center, bought it for 3 million a rai 7 years ago, is now around 20-30 million baht.

I can understand a 5-10% increase per year, but here we are talking 300-400% increase in just a few years.

My question is to people having some knowledge in this domain, are those prices going to rise even more? Is it going to drop or are we just getting to a more or less peak now and it will stay the same for the years to come?

Thanks for any feedback

[Loaded]

Chinese money starting to flow in keeping the market buoyant. I can't see it dropping. Anyway, Thai economics 101 - never drop the price.

[cmsally]

The phrase "I'll sell it to ...." now seems to finish with Chinese rather than farang or rich Bangkokian.

But pretty much everywhere is heaps more people and same amount of land.

[CNXBKKMAN]

I am not surprised the area around the Convention Center values have gone up. The convention center grounds are used almost like a park. Lots of joggers, cyclists dog owners during the early evening. There are great views of Doi Suthip around the convention center which won't disappear as the convention center is on a big plot of land. The cycle/jogging path has just been completed to the 700 Year Stadium and Huay Tung Tao which gives the area an unusual relaxed and civilized feeling.

Even after years of political troubles, red shirts lobbing grenades at anyone who opposes them, the army coup, smoke haze, drought, Chiang Mai still has cranes on the horizon. Buildings are being demolished, land cleared all over the city for new developments. Even a big project in the forest on the lower slopes of Doi Suthip (always thought building on the mountain was illegal?). I noticed a new airline service yesterday. Hainan Airlines to Chengdu. Things are booming.

[MastaMak]

Just today I got 2 new cases... A house in San Phi Seua with a selling sign of 2.7m 2 months ago, I went to ask if it was still for sale, they tell me yes, for 4.8m.

Then yesterday I found land for sale behind the green valley golf, 2m for 1 rai. Today we want to go see it and got the info that it's now 6.8m.

I just wonder if there are any actual buyers at those prices?

[invex]

And this:

I know people buying land in Hang Dong, on Canal Road, Saraphee and San Kamphaeng for 10.000 Baht a rai, not even 10 years ago. They selling now for 1 Million + a rai. Yes totally madness.

[MaeJoMTB]

As a foreigner, you can't own land in Thailand, so why worry about the price?

[MastaMak]

As a foreigner, you can't own land in Thailand, so why worry about the price?

How I buy land is irrelevant to this thread. My question is why people are tripling prices in the last 1-2 years and is anyone going to buy at those insane prices.

[neilrob]

You may find that the people you are talking to about the price are not actually the owners, but "agents". I have had experience with such agents. First, I find from other sources that the price is, for example, 2M per rai. Then I approach the apparent owner and they ask 4M per rai. The true price is still 2M. What happens is that the agent hopes to sell to you at, say, 3M per rai, then pass on 2M per rai to the owner and pocket the difference. This is very common in Thailand and results in much artificial apparent price inflation. The only way to make sure you are dealing with the true owner is to ask to see the original of the chanote for the property.

[Dante99]

What happens is that the agent hopes to sell to you at, say, 3M per rai, then pass on 2M per rai to the owner and pocket the difference. This is very common in Thailand

Seems unlikely. Only a naieve fool would buy in such a transaction.

The usual way is to meet the owner at the land office, transfer the title and make the payment. Then the seller pays the agent a commission based on their agreement.

[mesquite]

"My question is to people having some knowledge in this domain, are those prices going to rise even more? Is it going to drop or are we just getting to a more or less peak now and it will stay the same for the years to come?"

Impossible to answer. You need someone with a crystal ball.

Maybe Marc Faber would know, but I doubt it.

Edited August 10, 2015 by mesquite

[neilrob]

What happens is that the agent hopes to sell to you at, say, 3M per rai, then pass on 2M per rai to the owner and pocket the difference. This is very common in Thailand

Seems unlikely. Only a naieve fool would buy in such a transaction.

The usual way is to meet the owner at the land office, transfer the title and make the payment. Then the seller pays the agent a commission based on their agreement.

Whether it seems unlikely to you or not, I assure you it occurs, and frequently, with land (rather than houses, where the situation is different). I am not sure who you are calling a naive fool. Presumably you have limited experience of buying and selling land (as opposed to houses). The actual transaction occurs as you describe. However, the agent agrees in advance with the owner that he will pay the asking price to the owner. Anything over he gets. Thus it is very much in the agents's interest to go for a higher price, providing he can get a sale. Thus the price you hear about as prospective seller may well not be the owner's price. We are in the process of selling some land and both deals being offered to us at present involve something similar to this process. As long as we get our price, we don't too much care what inflated price the buyer pays.

[chiang mai]

I live in Mae Rim. One rai nearby just sold for 4.9 mill; another lot measuring 300 tw with small house, just sold for 4.5 mill; new house about 100 metres from me, 9.6 mill; decent building plots very close, 15k per tw. I know the buyers and/or sellers on those lots/properties so no guesswork involved.

[evenstevens]

yes c/mai, the land prices(smaller plots) particular near the town centre in any direction have sky rocketed recently,and are selling

your quotes are truly on the money

out in beverly hills (around prem school) titled land with good access,water and electricty available and a plot ready to build ,are asking for up to 3 mil rai

the el cheapo days are long gone,to become a beautiful maerimite, the boonies is going ahead at a fast rate, and they are pricing accordingly

perhaps the o/p best value I.M.O. is to look for a second hand house in the outer parts of mae rim

[Dante99]

What happens is that the agent hopes to sell to you at, say, 3M per rai, then pass on 2M per rai to the owner and pocket the difference. This is very common in Thailand

Seems unlikely. Only a naieve fool would buy in such a transaction.

The usual way is to meet the owner at the land office, transfer the title and make the payment. Then the seller pays the agent a commission based on their agreement.

Presumably you have limited experience of buying and selling land (as opposed to houses).

.....

We are in the process of selling some land and both deals being offered to us at present involve something similar to this process. As long as we get our price, we don't too much care what inflated price the buyer pays.

Right, I have only been in 7 land transactions here.

Most people would want to get the market price which is what buyers pay but if you like leaving money on the table it is certainly up to you.

Have to wonder how many offers your agent turns down (and never tells you about)

that are at or a little above your price but give him too little profit in his opinion.

[THAIJAMES]

"My question is to people having some knowledge in this domain, are those prices going to rise even more? Is it going to drop or are we just getting to a more or less peak now and it will stay the same for the years to come?"

Impossible to answer. You need someone with a crystal ball.

Maybe Marc Faber would know, but I doubt it.

My personal view is that prices went crazy about 2 years ago, right before the coup. The main reason was because of new zoning laws and the need to build something before they came into effect (height of building - max 12 meters)

The coup also put a damper on things and it seems like a lot of properties in the area (convention center area) have been siting unsold for many months and some many years.

From what I enquired (only 3-4 properties) the prices didn't seem to have gone up much lately.

Of course most of the plots are too large for building a single house, and small plots are very hard to find.

I have not seen any Chinese buying anything around this area, so I don't think that is a factor.

Personally I think prices will not go down, they never do. It is a matter of finding someone that really wants to sell and they need to sell fast.

Most others are just sitting, put up high prices hoping that some one will pay it or that they will get lucky.

A lot of it has to do with the Thai economy, the baht might go down in which case it becomes cheaper for you to buy.

Just for comparison sake, I estimate the general price is 25K per t. Wah

Edited August 10, 2015 by THAIJAMES

[chiang mai]

25k per tw in Mae Rim is way way over the top. Of course you can pay that much but I would guess that less than 0.5% of purchasers do.

[THAIJAMES]

25k per tw in Mae Rim is way way over the top. Of course you can pay that much but I would guess that less than 0.5% of purchasers do.

25K per wah is for the convention center area not Mae Rim. Its been that price for about 2 years.

Edited August 10, 2015 by THAIJAMES

[dru2]

I paid THB10,000 per tw near the Samoeng crossroads last year. It has gone up appreciably since...

[Loaded]

yes c/mai, the land prices(smaller plots) particular near the town centre in any direction have sky rocketed recently,and are selling

your quotes are truly on the money

out in beverly hills (around prem school) titled land with good access,water and electricty available and a plot ready to build ,are asking for up to 3 mil rai

the el cheapo days are long gone,to become a beautiful maerimite, the boonies is going ahead at a fast rate, and they are pricing accordingly

perhaps the o/p best value I.M.O. is to look for a second hand house in the outer parts of mae rim

Question for someone who lives in Mae Rim:

They are widening the approach from Chiang Mai to Mae Rim and adding an underpass. I've heard about a Mae Rim bypass, but I don't see any evidence of a bypass. It needs one. Does anyone know about a 'Mae Rim bypass'?

[neilrob]

What happens is that the agent hopes to sell to you at, say, 3M per rai, then pass on 2M per rai to the owner and pocket the difference. This is very common in Thailand

Seems unlikely. Only a naieve fool would buy in such a transaction.

The usual way is to meet the owner at the land office, transfer the title and make the payment. Then the seller pays the agent a commission based on their agreement.

Presumably you have limited experience of buying and selling land (as opposed to houses).

.....

We are in the process of selling some land and both deals being offered to us at present involve something similar to this process. As long as we get our price, we don't too much care what inflated price the buyer pays.

Right, I have only been in 7 land transactions here.

Most people would want to get the market price which is what buyers pay but if you like leaving money on the table it is certainly up to you.

Have to wonder how many offers your agent turns down (and never tells you about)

that are at or a little above your price but give him too little profit in his opinion.

You are completely missing the point. The point is that sometimes the price which is asked is coming from an agent and may be quite inflated, versus what the owner wants.So I was advising the OP to take this into account and investigate. I know you believe, on the basis of all of seven transactions, that this never occurs (or should I say "seems unlikely"). I can tell you from experience, that it really does occur. I never suggested that it did in all transactions, but it sure does occur, so the OP might want to watch for it and take it into accountt.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Clearly land that is close to a spanking new internation conference facility that went up just 1-2 years ago is seeing a big increase. That's not surprising. Same happened in the Mae Hia area when the Royal Flora and Night Safari went up.

And here and there people are increasing prices, which is up to them. The occasional lunatic wet-dream pricing doesn't mean the absence of more reasonably priced deals all around, by people who actually want to sell in their lifetime.

So.. you just keep looking. And make sure you're ready to pounce. That may mean looking at very different areas that still meet your overall requirements.

My wife doesn't own really a lot of property, but we did make a move a couple years ago.. which gave us two rai in a scenic location out of town, as well as a very small house in town. All for under 2 million total spend. Not in a hurry to buy more in areas where prices are high, but we do look at the occasional house or plot. (Though we also established that we're done with any long term investing: if you spend money then it should be either to live it it, or to immediately get a return out of it. No more buying land just because it looks nice and is affordable.)

Next up: The Canal Road South of town. That road is being turned into a 4 lane highway, so land in that vicinity will go up by a bit.

Edited August 10, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Mapguy]

yes c/mai, the land prices(smaller plots) particular near the town centre in any direction have sky rocketed recently,and are selling

your quotes are truly on the money

out in beverly hills (around prem school) titled land with good access,water and electricty available and a plot ready to build ,are asking for up to 3 mil rai

the el cheapo days are long gone,to become a beautiful maerimite, the boonies is going ahead at a fast rate, and they are pricing accordingly

perhaps the o/p best value I.M.O. is to look for a second hand house in the outer parts of mae rim

Question for someone who lives in Mae Rim:

They are widening the approach from Chiang Mai to Mae Rim and adding an underpass. I've heard about a Mae Rim bypass, but I don't see any evidence of a bypass. It needs one. Does anyone know about a 'Mae Rim bypass'?

An interesting question, but one that will get lost here. Start a thread?

Even if speculation, how would this bypass be routed?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ Through the military land and canal road most likely. So to the West of Mae Rim. It's not very built up there.

[Puwa]

yes c/mai, the land prices(smaller plots) particular near the town centre in any direction have sky rocketed recently,and are selling

your quotes are truly on the money

out in beverly hills (around prem school) titled land with good access,water and electricty available and a plot ready to build ,are asking for up to 3 mil rai

the el cheapo days are long gone,to become a beautiful maerimite, the boonies is going ahead at a fast rate, and they are pricing accordingly

perhaps the o/p best value I.M.O. is to look for a second hand house in the outer parts of mae rim

Question for someone who lives in Mae Rim:

They are widening the approach from Chiang Mai to Mae Rim and adding an underpass. I've heard about a Mae Rim bypass, but I don't see any evidence of a bypass. It needs one. Does anyone know about a 'Mae Rim bypass'?

An interesting question, but one that will get lost here. Start a thread?

Even if speculation, how would this bypass be routed?

I don't know of any bypass planned. Maybe what you heard referred to the underpass or the new road and bridge connecting Mae Rim and Mae Jo just south of Mae Taeng. I think that road is supposed to reduce traffic through Mae Rim market, by diverting it through Mae Jo market. The military isn't coughing up any land on the west side, which is really the only corridor. East of the existing highway through San Pong is too thickly settled. But here's a tip, if you want to avoid traffic up to Mae Rim, take the very scenic rural road through Muang Kaew along the east bank of the Ping. During the last year's heavy construction, that's been the alternate route. Underpass to open this month or next anyway.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As for bypasses, Sanpatong/Hang Dong have one. Very big 6 lane road with a tunnel under the Mae Wang road that ends up at the Canal Road.

It gets very little use.

[chiang mai]

I have heard from somebody who suggested there might be a road from just after Mae Jo (somewhere near the Mae Rim turning), through the paddy fields to the East of Mae Rim and that it could link up to the main road through Mae Rim, somewhere past the temple. Considering the source I have no reason to believe the idea is based on even a single fact other than when looking at that area, it does make some sense.

[cornishcarlos]

As a foreigner, you can't own land in Thailand, so why worry about the price?

I think you type this response to every topic involving land !

But we can and do buy land, so it's important to know land values in different areas.

You keep renting a condo so you never get caught out though

[worgeordie]

The value of land and lots of other things ,is only what someone

is willing to pay,but one thing for sure price of land will only rise,

as they are not making anymore.just wish i had listened to my

wife,and let her buy more land,but at the time I could receive up

to 18% return on fixed accounts,so i thought it was a better use

of cash,until the bubble burst,time to move into property,cash

was not king anymore.

regards Worgeordie

[MastaMak]

A few plots of land around convention center for sale, most of them betweem 35k and 65k per t.w. which is retarded.

The day before yesterday I received a great quote for 2m for a bit over a rai behind the green valley golf (near the green valley condo). A day later the agent tells me it got sold a few weeks ago and re-listed it for 6m. The agent knows what I'm willing to pay, so I don't think she's lying, it's as much a waste of time for her as it is for me.

Everything I'm interested in triples overnight, I just wonder if it's plain to late to buy land at all.

There was even a guy selling 4 rai at the Ping river for 6m, I went to have a look and he explained how the river moved over the years and now 3 from the 4 rai are actually in the river. That was a funny waste of time one

I will continue looking but without any real expectations as people obviously don't want to sell (who would pay 3-4m a rai in Mae Rim away from main road I wonder).