Valium addiction...need help!

[asialife]

Hi

I could really use some sound advice. I’ll start with the question because you might get bored from this long story. I am looking for a place in Pattaya, where I can work on Valium detox as an outpatient.

The last 15 years I have been struggling with anxiety. Ad first, I had no idea what the problem was, never heard of a panic attack before in my life. It started at a time that I had heavy stress.

In the past, I had taking Valium before, but at this time I didn’t see a solution there. I just went through it, and landed in the emergency room more often than I can remember. Every time the same result, nothing wrong, just a panic attack.

I do have GERD and that seems to be the reason for panic attacks some time.

Long story short, one day I rediscovered Valium. This is about 10 years ago. I took it only when I had a panic attack and it calmed me down. At this time we are talking once every 1 or 2 months or so.

After a few years, I started to use it to take a way the horrible consequences of a hangover. I’m not a alcoholic, this year I might have been drinking 4 or 5 times. But a few years a go I would drink once a week.

A few years ago I upped my use of Valium to the times that I thought that I might get a panic attack. More like preventive usage. And almost two years ago, around Christmas I noticed something strange. I would have muscle pain at the left side of my chest. Like a muscle spasm.

I’m trying to keep this a short as possible but it is hard. I thought that Valium was the reason. I mean, I couldn’t be addicted. I would use sometimes…not every day. Most times I wouldn’t use for a week. So how could I be addicted? I did some research online and found out the horrible truth.

Before I found out, I went to see A doctor about it, and he said that it was just panic attacks and I wasn’t addicted to valium. I just didn’t believe what he was saying so I looked it up.

No, I am not a regular user of 40mgs a day or more. I only use sometimes, once or two times a week on average. Usually, after 7 days of feeling bad and not knowing why, I feel anxious and take 10 or 20 mgs. Most I have ever taken in one day was 40mgs. But it’s usually 10 or 20.

So now I am thinking that, the reason I feel bad all day is the withdrawal. Without me knowing, I’ve been going to detox for years and I’m feeding the addiction every time I take a new Valium.

Because my dosage is so low I have good hopes to get over this faster than the horror stories I have been reading about. This is really a nightmare. At least with party drugs you get some kick out of it.

I need someone who can guide me through this horror. My life has changed and become dull and not worth living. NO IM NOT SUICIDEL. I just mean that I don’t want to live like this and get of that trash.

In my opinion I might need a daily steady dosage of valium and tapper it down. I’m talking about a small amount. I might need to stop cold turkey…which I tryied the last week. Sunday 2 August I took 20mg and nothing until yesterday Monday 10 August when I too 40mg. And that’s how it has been for the last years.

The difference was that this time i knew the problem, I wanted to quit and I didn’t succeed. My excuse, yesterday I thought cold turkey would give me some of those life-threatening side effects you hear about. Probably stupid, of course! But that’s why I need someone who can talk that nonsense out of my head and back it up medically. Should I just go a hospital in pattaya? Anyone experience? I'm also interested in costs. i have an aprtment in pattaya so I mean the medical part. Like daily visits to a doctor or other thearapy.

Thanks for reading through my story.

This was my best English

[lopburi3]

Can not address your specific needs but had mother with such an issue and only in her 80's did a doctor in nursing care facility actually succeed with a tapering off to zero program. This actually allowed her to leave facility and live a much better life. Previous attempts had been cold turkey and resulted in hospital paranoia and doctors just gave again to solve. It sounds as if you want to succeed so expect that will be key. Am sure some will have good advise on who/where and wish you the best.

[NickJ]

So your plan is to come to one of the worlds Party Cities, where almost anything goes to get of a substance that is readily available??????...........Go to the middle east or somewhere where its hard to actualy find.

[Sheryl]

Presumably he is already living in Pattaya.

OP: to deal effectively with your problem (which is not one but two issues: getting off valium and also getting the anxiety/panic disorder properly treated) you need a combination of medical care from a psychiatrist specializing in addiction disorders and anxiety and also short-term therapy from a psychologist. These two things together work far better than either one alone does.

Gettting off valium does indeed involve a gradual tapering, but to be successful this needs to be accompanied by the use of a non-addictive medication for the anxiety -- of which there are nowadays several that are quite effective. These do take time to work, and also the selection of drug depends on a number of physical and psychological factors, so expert advice is needed both for the selection of a better, non-addictive drug to control the panic attacks and for the timing/sequencing of weaning off valium.

I do not think you can get the medical expertise you need in Pattaya, but there is an excellent, US-trained doctor specializing in addiction disorders in Bangkok, see below. You won't need to travel in to Bangkok all that often - maybe once a week for a week or two, then progressively less often, and once completely stabilized then just when and if needed (the non-addictive anti-anxiety meds can be bought without prescription at a pharamcy once the right drug and dose have been established for you).

https://www.bumrungrad.com/doctors/Pichai-Saengcharnchai

For counseling, again Bangkok has the widest selection but the following man has hours in Pattaya and there has been positive feedback on him from TV members: http://bangkoktherapy.com/contact/contact.aspx

If you don't "click" with him (the interpersonal chemistry between patient and therapist being at least as important as the therapy technique used) then see the various Bangkok alternatives listed in the pinned mental health thread.

Therapy is extremely important as an adjunct to medical therapy because, among other things, while drugs can control panic attacks and reduce overall levels of anxiety, you will still have to deal with a certain amount of anxiety from time to time -- everyone does, it is part of living. Unfortunately, people who use benzos become not only physically addicted but also pyschologically addicted to the absence of some normal (though of course unpleasant) temporary emotional states and that is something you need to "unlearn" along with new ways of dealing with temporary unpleasant emotions. In some cases there are also underlying emotional conflicts which contribute to the anxiety and working those through at your own pace will help.

Lastly I don't know what has been done for your GERD but what needs to be done is to first of all test for heliobacter and if present, treat it; secondly lifestyle modifications (elevate the head of the bed, avoid eating for 2 hours before lying down, greatly reduce caffeine intake). In some cases even with these measures long term use of a PPI may be necessary -- this does not correct the reflux but renders it less uncomfortable and reduces the damage it can do to your esophagus.

Vipassana meditation if you are so inclined can greatly help in learning to handle unpleasant emotions as well as in overall decreasing their frequency and severity but this should not be tried until you are completely off the valium and your anxiety has stablized. Courses in Thailand: https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/locations/directory#TH

[Lumbini]

Sheryl is correct a long gradual taper is the safe and effective way but support is key as the brain will work at driving you back to using if it can so one must really have a support system to learn how to take control and drive the brain that has been literally rewired by this drug to drive you . I used forums like benzo.org and others and it was a two year process I went through many years ago . The brain can heal but it is a long process but so very worth it . I chime in on this thread because I feel for you and having been through this and so understand the real diminished life you speak of that not many can imagine including the Dr.'s that so so often prescribe this benzo . Sounds like tolerance withdrawal , this is when a person feels like they are withdrawing but in fact it's just body feeling it's not getting same dosage because of tolerance . Not sure if I am explaining this correct . Please download the Ashton Manual it has helped so many . For some reason it's challenging to find Dr.'s that fully understand the depths of the hell this drug brings when taken over long period even if it's not daily .

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

Edited August 12, 2015 by Lumbini

[asialife]

Lopburi3:

I think a can relate. No paranoia, but foggy mind. Hard to even type a letter. I wonder what dose your mother was on. I like to think that my usage of a rather small dosage may help me get over this easier. Even though i don't expect it to be easy.

NickJ:

I understand your concern. However, I'm not a junkie who needs to hide from his drug of choice. 15 years ago I quit smoking, there was no where to run. resolve is what matters. I'd rather face it head-on. I've been in Asia for a long time now and a lot of time in Pattaya. I have an apartment and I surely don't come to party. I wish I was in the mood to party.

Sheryl:

You really took some time to address my problem. Your first presumption was correct. I can also find myself in the idea of addressing both condition separately. One being the anxiety and the other addiction. The time when my anxiety started was so unbelievable stressful, it must have been the reason it began.

I have a long history with all kind of things that could make you addicted. Gambling, alcohol, drugs but non of them ever got a hold of me. I could take it or leave it. Only smoking was a bit harder, but once i understood the problem, quitting was easy, not to say very easy.

I have the some feeling here. it's like an epiphany. i suddenly understand what is going on and why my life is the way it is. dull, boring etc. i thought it was just my health, but it turns out it's the pills that make me feel the way i do in a viscous circle. It's a disgusting feeling. I'm pretty mad with myself for letting it come this far. It is just that I really thought i knew it all. NOT! I tried so many things. rude awakening.

Live and learn. I have already taken action. i tried to call your recommendation for counseling, but no answer. I have sent him an email and pointed to this thread so he has a head start on what is the problem. I called the hospital and will meet the doctor there on Monday probably.

What GERD is concerned. It took me years to find the best course of action. 10 years ago it came with crazy smooth muscle spasms in my lower abdomen. Those days are gone thank god. Now, I'm on Nexium 40mg for life probably. I tried other products but nothing helps. Eating before sleeping is an absolute nono. Sleeping i do inclined so there is no back-flow in my esophagus. That is not easy when sleeping in hotels. I wish i could stop taking nexium too. An option would be t fix my sphincter problem and get the Linx system, but I'm not so far yet. i also don't know if I am eligible for it.

Lumbini:

You also seem to understand what i was trying to explain. Your last sentence hit the nail on the head. That is why it's not strange for people to get addicted to this. addiction is something you have to do on a daily basis in many people's mind. dangerous stuff.

I like to thank you all for commenting, links and your advice. I will surely keep you posted about my progress.

PS. i spoke with the hospital again and asked for the fee for the consult. I was told 1000 to 2000. They couldn't give me an answer what this depended on. So i thought maybe it's the session time, but the sessions are all 20 minutes. Then i asked them to transfer me with the nurses station, and asked the same question. She said the doctor will make his price. That was enough for me to pass on the whole deal. instead, I'm visiting the hospital I just had surgery a couple of months back and see where i go from there.

[lopburi3]

Mother was on for about 40 years - in the 50-60's it was the drug handed out like candy as mothers little helper.

[WitawatWatawit]

Lumbini and I have a lot in common here. I recovered from xanax dependency, but I won't overload your brain with the details as pretty much everything you need to know is mentioned above (and you seem to be switched on). So I'll offer only support and a couple of pieces of additional advice on how to battle your way through.

First, the three things that helped me were meditation (I was not a practitioner beforehand), mindfulness and my innate sense of humour. They came to my rescue hundreds of times over the year that I took to shake the monkey. And speaking of, get it well and truly fixed in your mind that recovery is a long process - I mean, do not harbour any hopes that you might be seeing the finish line after only a short while. That can hurt you. When you're feeling good, be realistic and understand that the nervous system plays tricks as it regenerates. Be optimistic, but be realistic. You'll be hit with bad spells for quite some time (but hopefully not a year like me, or 2 years like lumbini ). Weather them, but monitor your vital signs.

You've already experienced some lows. You'll know what to expect, therefore.

[Sheryl]

........

PS. i spoke with the hospital again and asked for the fee for the consult. I was told 1000 to 2000. They couldn't give me an answer what this depended on. So i thought maybe it's the session time, but the sessions are all 20 minutes. Then i asked them to transfer me with the nurses station, and asked the same question. She said the doctor will make his price. That was enough for me to pass on the whole deal. instead, I'm visiting the hospital I just had surgery a couple of months back and see where i go from there.

Please do not do this!!!

Addiction psychiatry is a very specialized field and there are only a small handful of really qualified Drs for it in the whole of Thailand.

It is the normal process in all private hospitals here that doctors set their own consultation fee, and 1000 - 2000 is indeed the norm for specialists at Bumrungrad. There is no "session" length as this is not pyschotherapy or counseling but a medical consultation. Length will be whatever it needs to be (usually longer first visit, of course) and the fee is the same. (In some cases such as extremely short follow-up to get test results or the like, drs may wave the fee altogether, but that's about the only variation I have come across).

Sounds like the nurse you spoke with was just too lazy to check the particular doctor's fee for you, though she could have done so. But it will be in the range indicated. I have no idea what this "20 minute" bit was that she mentioned, probably she did not understand your question.

Beleive me, it will nto only likely not help, but may worsen matters to see a psychiatrist not thoroughly versed in management of benzo addiction and up to date on treatment of anxiety.

[asialife]

Please do not do this!!!

I have taken your advice and made the appointment as recommended.

Your reasoning makes sense. when I made they appointment at the other hospital, the staff there could not recommend one doctor. According to her, all were taking patients with addictions. That's why I thought to just go and take it from there. But after getting a recommendation for someone who is specialized, this between step seems silly indeed.

[doremifasol]

I wish you'll find the right people to help you succeed.

[DogNo1]

There are schedules for tapering off benzos online if you google for them. Try googling "benzodiazepine addiction. One of them recommends switching to Ativan before tapering because its side-effects are less disabling than those of Xanax or Valium. Good luck.

[asialife]

I did some more research but this has to stop. Reading some of these stories is enough to make me anxious. What I'm about to say might be contradicting my recent actions but I'm going to leave the internet for what it is. At some point I'm going to need to trust someone and I hope it's the doctor I'm going to see on Monday. He has the credentials, so I will put my faith in his hands. Something we did before there was an internet to speak of. Now a days, everyone is an expert. There are many stories on the internet that contradict each other and many are there for SEO reasons and financial gain.

I have not heard from the person who does counseling in Pattaya, but I'm sure I can find someone else if I'm not able to contact him. I know there are weekly AA sessions in Pattaya too, this might be an option too. But honestly, the most important step is the doctor Monday and what he suggests I do. And how I will tapper this off.

Thank you all for you best wishes and compassion towards me and my problem.

I think I should keep a journal that I could post here. It might be benificial for people with the same problem.

[Sheryl]

If unsuccessful finding a good counsellor in Pattaya, try PSI in Bangkok. Ben Wienstein there is especially good and experienced on treating people with addictions. http://benweinstein.com/?page_id=7

With patients who have to travel in from other provinces they can make flexible arrangements like longer sessions further apart etc. And you can probably schedule it so that doctor and counselling visits are on the same trip.

[Lumbini]

PS

Need some advice on how to make sure your taper goes smoothly? Well here are 11 great tips and strategies to a successful benzodiazepine taper from Professor C Heather Ashton. Oxford educated Professor Ashton is considered a leading expert on benzodiazepine withdrawal based on her experiences running a benzo withdrawal clinic over more than a decade. She is also the author of ‘Benzodiazepines: How They Work and How to Withdraw’ which is now more famously known as The Ashton Manual.

11 Tips for a Successful Benzodiazepine Withdrawal

1. Get Confident

You can do it! Millions of people have gone before you and if they can get off so can you.

2. Don’t Believe All the Horror Stories

Just because someone else had a tough time withdrawing doesn’t mean that you will too. Every body is different every use-history is different and every tapering attempt differs as well. Many people who taper very slowly experience only minimal withdrawal symptoms so don’t worry about the worst case scenarios and all those scary stories you’ve heard. Go slow and listen to your body and it’s very unlikely that you’ll experience anything so severe.

3. Talk to Your Doctor before You Start

Talk to your doctor first to make sure it is safe and advisable for you to begin tapering down. Assuming you get the green light (and if you don’t you may wish to seek out a second opinion on that) inform your doctor of your tapering plans and your estimated schedule of reductions.

Make sure your doctor knows that you will be in control of the benzodiazepine tapering schedule and that you do not want arbitrary deadlines or imposed pacing.

4. Get Support from Someone Who Understands What You’re Going Through

You’re likely going to need emotional and psychological support at some points of the tapering journey so make sure you’ve got someone in your corner who understands benzo withdrawal (or is willing to get informed) and who’s willing to be there for you when you need a helping hand.

This person can be a doctor or therapist, it can be a friend or a spouse or it can be a person or a group of people from a community support group. It doesn’t matter who it is, as long as they understand what you’re going through and are willing to help you out as needed.

5. Be Patient

If you’ve been using for a while, understand that it’s going to a take a long while for your brain and body to adapt to reductions in dosage. It is not uncommon for a tapering to take 6, 12 or even 18 months. This is OK.

6. Control Your Own Pace of Reductions

It’s your body so you’re the person who’s best able to judge an acceptable pace of dosage tapering. Don’t worry at the onset about mapping out a schedule of tapering all the way to the end. Make a schedule and follow it for a few weeks and then review and alter that schedule as necessary based on your progress and the way you’re handling the dosage reductions.

Resist outside attempts to push you to a tapering schedule that’s faster than you’re comfortable with.

7. Switch to Longer Acting Medications

If you take short acting medications, like Xanax, you may want to consider switching to a longer acting benzodiazepine, like diazepam.

Short acting benzodiazepines result in rising and falling quantities of the medication in the bloodstream several times over the course of a day and this can lead to feelings of withdrawal and/or cravings as you taper. Longer lasting benzodiazepines result in more stable blood concentrations.

8. The Larger Your Daily Dose the Greater Your Dose Reduction (It’s All About the %)

Don’t think dose reductions per mg, percentage dose reductions are much more manageable. For example, if you are dropping your dose by 5% a week and are starting off on 40mg a day of diazepam, then you would start off by reducing your daily dose by 2 mg (a 5% reduction). Once you are down to 5 mgs per day, for example, if you dropped that same 2 mgs you would be reducing your daily dosage by 40% - which is a very big drop!

9. Never Increase Your Dosage

There may be times of great stress when you really feel like you need to temporarily increase your dosage (a death in the family, for example). If you need to, it is fine to delay further reductions for as long as necessary, but you should never go back and increase your dosage once you have already done the hard work and once your brain has already adjusted to a lower dosage.

It can be very useful as you taper to learn alternative ways to handle stress, such as yoga, meditation, relaxation exercises (like the relaxation response) or deep breathing exercises. As you learn to handle stressful situations without resorting to benzodiazepines you will gain confidence in your ability to really beat this dependence.

10. Don’t Take Other Substances Which Cause Similar Effects

It does you little good to reduce your daily benzodiazepine intake by half if you simply double your consumption of alcohol, marijuana or other sedative drugs to compensate.

11. Jump off at .5mgs of Diazepam

Once you’re down to 0.5 mgs of diazepam it’s time to make the jump off to nothing. Continuing to taper after this point serves little purpose and most people find that the worry about not taking any medication is far worse than the reality of the final jump to freedom.

[fvw53]

just in case recently a new treatment clinic for all kind of addiction was opened in Bangkok

http://www.thecabinbangkok.co.th/the-cabin-Bangkok/index.html

[DogNo1]

Lumbini is absolutely right. I got it wrong. The longer acting benzos are easier to taper from and the article from the UK whose link I'll paste recommends tapering from Valium. It has tapering schedules attached for your reference but I understand why the OP would prefer to put himself in the hands of a competent doctor rather than go it on his own. Here's the link http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha02.htm

[asialife]

Lumbini is absolutely right. I got it wrong. The longer acting benzos are easier to taper from and the article from the UK whose link I'll paste recommends tapering from Valium. It has tapering schedules attached for your reference but I understand why the OP would prefer to put himself in the hands of a competent doctor rather than go it on his own. Here's the link http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha02.htm

I liked his post too. A big question is the dosage i should start tappering with. Forexample, today I didn't use any...it's actually like it has gone for a long time, but i never noticed. I don't take any, than after a week or so i start with a higher dose that goes down the days after. So for example, i take 30 or 40 mg a day later 20 or 10, another day later 5 or 0, then 0 untill i feel bad again and start from the beginning.

Two more days and we will know.

I have been thinking about the counseling thing to. fvw53 brought a clinic in Bangkok to my attention. But really, I don't think I will be needing couseling at all. Trust me, I will be the first to run to one if I think i cannot make it, but this is not a drug that does anything for me. I understand very well that each pill is responsible for wanting the next. I have a friend joining me Monday when i go to the hospital. He is also around on a daily basis and he knows what is going on. He will be my first help.

What i'm looking forward to is being of the benzos and having a normal night out again with my friends. Something that i havent done in a long time. I'm not sure how to explain it, bit i trust myself enough to know that benzos is not what i want. If I was inclined to use something stimulating from a drug perspective, I would surely know better ( of course just as bad) options.

People, thanks again for putting time in to write. I will keep you posted again, i am very curious which doses I will start with. Of course i want it to be a little as possible. I'm guessing/hoping that it might be 10mg.

The problem online is that most people are talking about daily usage of 40mg up to 160mg. I haven't seen anyone talking about low dosages, besides what Lumbini said of course.

[EmptyHead]

Presumably he is already living in Pattaya.

OP: to deal effectively with your problem (which is not one but two issues: getting off valium and also getting the anxiety/panic disorder properly treated) you need a combination of medical care from a psychiatrist specializing in addiction disorders and anxiety and also short-term therapy from a psychologist. These two things together work far better than either one alone does.

Gettting off valium does indeed involve a gradual tapering, but to be successful this needs to be accompanied by the use of a non-addictive medication for the anxiety -- of which there are nowadays several that are quite effective. These do take time to work, and also the selection of drug depends on a number of physical and psychological factors, so expert advice is needed both for the selection of a better, non-addictive drug to control the panic attacks and for the timing/sequencing of weaning off valium.

I do not think you can get the medical expertise you need in Pattaya, but there is an excellent, US-trained doctor specializing in addiction disorders in Bangkok, see below. You won't need to travel in to Bangkok all that often - maybe once a week for a week or two, then progressively less often, and once completely stabilized then just when and if needed (the non-addictive anti-anxiety meds can be bought without prescription at a pharamcy once the right drug and dose have been established for you).

https://www.bumrungrad.com/doctors/Pichai-Saengcharnchai

For counseling, again Bangkok has the widest selection but the following man has hours in Pattaya and there has been positive feedback on him from TV members: http://bangkoktherapy.com/contact/contact.aspx

If you don't "click" with him (the interpersonal chemistry between patient and therapist being at least as important as the therapy technique used) then see the various Bangkok alternatives listed in the pinned mental health thread.

Therapy is extremely important as an adjunct to medical therapy because, among other things, while drugs can control panic attacks and reduce overall levels of anxiety, you will still have to deal with a certain amount of anxiety from time to time -- everyone does, it is part of living. Unfortunately, people who use benzos become not only physically addicted but also pyschologically addicted to the absence of some normal (though of course unpleasant) temporary emotional states and that is something you need to "unlearn" along with new ways of dealing with temporary unpleasant emotions. In some cases there are also underlying emotional conflicts which contribute to the anxiety and working those through at your own pace will help.

Lastly I don't know what has been done for your GERD but what needs to be done is to first of all test for heliobacter and if present, treat it; secondly lifestyle modifications (elevate the head of the bed, avoid eating for 2 hours before lying down, greatly reduce caffeine intake). In some cases even with these measures long term use of a PPI may be necessary -- this does not correct the reflux but renders it less uncomfortable and reduces the damage it can do to your esophagus.

Vipassana meditation if you are so inclined can greatly help in learning to handle unpleasant emotions as well as in overall decreasing their frequency and severity but this should not be tried until you are completely off the valium and your anxiety has stablized. Courses in Thailand: https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/locations/directory#TH

Yeah, but don't tell the Vipassana organisation you have mental health problems otherwise they won't let you attend the course. You should know better Sheryl.

[Sheryl]

That is not correct and one should certainly not lie on the application, either about the anxiety or the addiction, both of which will be at that point in the past but which are relevant for the teacher to know about.

The application forms clearly ask for details of past problems and there is space to elaborate on the dates, treatment received and current situation.

An anxiety problem that is (at the point of application) fully stabilized does not necessarily preclude admission. They may however ask for a letter from his doctor

Lost of ex-addicts and lots of people who have had problems with depression and anxiety have been accepted in, successfully completed, and benefited from, Vipassana courses. There is a big difference between anxiety and pyschoses and the like. But it is not advisable to take a course while in the process of physical detox nor when currently suffering from severe anxiety. Hence recommendation to wait until after completely off the benzo and anxiety stabilized.

[Lumbini]

Valium has long half life and that's why is better to taper with . With that said if you have these days when you take 20 to 30 the following days there is much still in the system and you not getting the withdrawal / cravings again for many days . Don't kid yourself thinking you are not in such bad shape because you not take daily . When you decide to taper ( and this is just my opinion ) from what you have described I would start at 5 milligrams twice a day at different times of day . After a few weeks cut one of the doses down to 4 milligrams for a total of 9 milligrams a day . After a few weeks cut the other 5 milligrams in day to 4 also . This would have you on a steady dose daily and you could what's called stabilize at 10 a day and after 2 weeks go to 9 then 2 weeks later go to 8 and so on . When you get below 5 make the cuts smaller and more spread out dropping off months later when you get down to just one dose a day of 1 milligram and then even cutting that down to 1/2 a day then 1/2 every other day only making cuts every few weeks ( or slight variations on this ) . Sounds long but time will pass fast and when you have jumped off and are benzo free a few months then the real fruit and healing occurs that is life changing in ways that's exciting and hard to describe . Bottom line you have taken the first step so congratulations . When you celebrate one year from day you jumped off after taper is done life really will be different . Keep your eye on the prize .

As great as a good therapist is it may be challenging to locate here . A person that has been through it in many ways has a better understanding than most health care workers and Dr's ( why do I say this ) ( because it's hard to imagine how challenging it can be and how our own brain can be so rewired from these poisons that are called benzos . Buttttt the good news is real brain healing / plasticity and neurogenesis is so very real and possible . Here is a link to threads to get on so you have support and others who are going through same thing and many who have gone through this and stay on forum to help others as they were helped. Once I got a taper schedule the forums became my lifeline and those on these threads support each other . Hard to explain but I want to contribute what I can as so many helped me not just a Dr. or healthcare worker . You will be free in no time so keep eye on the prize .

http://www.drugs.com/forum/benzodiazepine-withdrawal/

[asialife]

Lumbini, I think that my previous posts pretty much agree with points you are making. I never knew I was addicted to Valium because of the long half life. That was the thing that knocked my socks off. But now I know, and a week later I'm already sitting in a doctors office to fix the issue. I've been feeling bad for a long time not knowing why. Like i said before, I was going through withdrawal over and over again.

I know why now, and you can call it arrogant, naive or just stupid, but I'm 100% sure that I will kick this. The hard part for me was finding out what was wrong. My anxiety problems are easy to explain. It started because of a stressful time in my life. Those days are far behind. When you think away the benzos, I have no worries at all. There is nothing in my life that gives me stress. So the anxiety that I feel today must come from the benzos. And if that is not the case, I will deal with that too.

The most important discovery for me was knowing what changed my life for the worse, now I do and i can work with that. I already shared that I have done a lot of things (frequently) in that past that many people are addicted to. Craziest must have been heroine. But with all these things, I just stopped when i felt that it was taking over. I had never forgotten the movie from my childhood "Cristiane F Children from banhof zoo" that would never happen to me.

Same for gambling, once i understood the math behind the games I played, i stopped immidiatly. No way to win! I play for fun now maybe once or twice a year. I started smoking when I was 12. In my 20s i tried to quit many times, with out success. It was so hard, until i read a book of Allan Car. A few chapters in the book and i understood that i never had to smoke again. and I never did. So what I am saying is that understanding a problem is the only thing I need to find a way to solve it. That surpasses the need for willpower, just logic and no tendencies to be self destructive.

Another case and point. I just had surgery a couple of months ago. The doctor gave me around 40 morphine pills. in the hospital I was on a drip...phew, good stuff :-) but seriously, I haven't taking any of the pills the doctor has given me when i was released.

When i read other people's stories, most of them take benzos to cope with daily life. They are dealing with stress or many other reason for them to take it. See, that is where i think my situation is different. I don't take it because i had a bad day at the office. i take it because I feel so bad for no reason (that i knew of) and i start losing my mind.

Not sure if i made it clear what the difference is in my opinion. English is not my first language but luckily I know what i mean :-)

I always read that past result are no guarantee for the future. This problem i will approach with that in mind, but I'm confident. 1 more day before I have some clear instructions how to deal with this.

Did you keep a journal Lumbine? I would be interested in reading it.

[Lumbini]

No journal but my daily posts for years at benzo.org forum that looks like has been taken down . It was 10 years ago and the forum with others tapering and old timer coming back to help was my lifeline for years ( now a good alternative site is the tapering benzo section on drugs.com forum I sent . There is a reason many doctors say you will be on this drug for life because they not have much of a clue ( or success in getting patient off once on for long time ) how difficult it is to get free and how much this poison rewires the brain unless they have actually have experienced it . So much I want to say but better I let go of emotions and judgmental thinking about the issues of benzos and just stay in gratitude for being benzo free after the most challenging experience I ever faced . I was taking small amount as prescribed for years never abusing or going over what was considered low average dose and prescribed . When tolerance started my life was 24/7 feeling sick , irritated and foggy . I never went up in dosage but tolerance continues so if you take sane dosage body gets a feeling like its getting less . This very real nightmare is called tolerance withdrawal and reason most start to increase dosage as to just avoid being sick most days . Hang in there and others that are reading this that think any dose is safe over long period just try to taper off completely for a few months and then and possibly only then do you fully comprehend how much this drug has changed your brain . I know almost nothing but share what I wish I had read in the beginning when doctor gave me this quick fix I paid such a price for as it robed me if real life .

Edited August 17, 2015 by Lumbini

[asialife]

Let me start by giving my condolences to everyone affect bu the recent events in Bangkok. We had A very close call. After the appointment we where still debating if we should go back to Pattaya or stay in Bangkok. The latter would have guided us right through the bombsite and I still cannot believe how luck we weer...tired and wanting to go home to Pattaya.

The doctors appointment went well. I took a friend so he could confirm my understand, and for him to understand what was going on with me. In the doctors opinion, tapering was not a good idea. My dose was so low that the half live is already giving me a tapering effect. The Stuff that I'm feeling when quieting Valium has to do with my nervous system going haywire. A simple solution is an antidepressant for night times and muscle relaxers by day.

It should all be said and done when I can stop medication in about 3 weeks up to a month. I thought that is was great news. I had some pretty skeptical questions for the doctors but he could answer them all. He also explained why tapering would actually do more harm. He calculate that on average i would take 60 mg every ten days. Which is about right. Now, if I would start taking 10 mg for example, i will get used to a daily dosage that is even higher then what i am talking right now.

its was worth the extra money to have some listen to my problem and understand it. Then knows how to explain me what is going on with my body and how to combat this. he didn't threat me like someone who is abusing a drug, but rather someone that was trapped. His treatment was based on that and I appreciate that.

Back for a second round next Monday. And this might be the last time. That depends how i react on the medication.

[Rancid]

The great irony is that we have the War on Drugs that gives us high crime, rich criminals, corrupt police and public officials with all the drugs still easily avaiable. In the meantime we have Big Pharma and the Medical Industry legally selling Vallium and many much more addictive and dangerous drugs that do just as much if not more damage.

A relative has been seeing a phychiatrist for years for anxiety and is now hopelessly addicted to the cocktail of drugs he legally deals. She was recently hospitalised and spent time in a mental institution, prior to seeing her dealer she had a reletively minor problem, now she is barely alive.

Another friend also had anxiety, tried vallium but felt was getting hooked so stopped. He found other non-drug ways to deal it and is now fine most of the time,

My point is phamaceutical drugs can be very addictive and generally have plenty of bad side effects, some obvious and others that affect you later. Getting off vallium safely is the best thing you can do, but don't follow some advice here and simply replace that with some other evil concoction dished out by another doctor.

Don't believe? Do some wide ranging research on how the FDA just rubber stamps Big Pharma without even checking their so called tests. Also how FDA officials and Big Pharma employees swap jobs within the industry. Check how many people die yearly purely attributable to using pharmaceutical drugs. There is no regulator and no actual testing what they sell, money changes hands and lots more money is made, the public are the victims.

Yes, there are life saving drugs used short term, these are not what I'm referring to.

[Neeranam]

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

This is by far the best authority on benzo withdrawal.

I tapered from 200 mg of diazepam a day to 40 mg in a couple of weeks then it got steadily more difficult. cut about 10% every 2 weeks was ok for me but then nearer the end I stayed on small amounts for a couple of months at a time.

The only way out is through - it is hell but persevere, it is well worth it.

[Sheryl]

This is fine as far as the tapering regimen goes but in my experience most people who end up addicted to benzos were taking them to treat anxiety or a mixed anxiety/depression state-- sometimes self treating, sometimes prescribed by a physician who wasn't careful about addiction risks, sometimes prescribed by a physician weho was careful but then they went beyond dr advice....in any event, ther is a coexisting condition that set it all off in the first place.

If the underlying problem which benzos were being used to mask is not adequately treated by other means the chances of a successful full withdrawal, without relapse, are slim. What tends to happen is people manage to get the dose way down but can't get altogether off, or they get off and then relapse all over.

So it is important not to treat only the benzo addiction but also the underlying mood disorder.

[Lumbini]

"A simple solution is an antidepressant for night times and muscle relaxers by day."

This is a sad and typical situation when one goes to many so called health care professionals who has little accurate information and experience with all of these ( yes ) poisons . Treating symptoms with more drugs unproven drugs , wow ! It's disease care management at best not whole body health care taking advantage of a patients desire to want things easy . No money in health care seems the profit is in disease management . I know almost nothing and understand my comments may be challenging to grasp if one has not actually been through benzo addiction and or helped others get free . This will be my last post on this thread thanks for letting me share [emoji120]

Edited August 20, 2015 by Lumbini

[asialife]

"I tapered from 200 mg of diazepam a day to 40 mg in a couple of weeks then it got steadily more difficult."

This is basically what i meant. A good example of what people are talking about on the net. High doses. 200 a day vs 60 in 10 days, how can you/I compare. It is very hard to find people who are or were in the same boat as i am.

"underlying problems" "mood disorder"

Yes, i can imagine that if those are not solved, there is no reason for the anxiety to be gone for good.

Lumbini

leaving a thread with a comment that you will not post anymore will not prevent other from addressing your last comment, but I'm sure you realize that. Thank you for sharing.

Your last post seems kind of bitter. Your input was/is much appreciated but your own words "I know almost nothing" sums it up for someone who doesn't know you other than through a forum.

Your whole premise of your last post is wrong. First of all, you are making assumptions, since you have no idea which medication he prescribed. Secondly, if we were to believe you, we shouldn't take even paracetamol for something as common as the cold.

The hard way is always the best way is an assumption I have to make reading your last post. Which of course is not true.

You are calling a Dr who you probably have never met before nor have any first hand knowledge about a "so called health care professional." Of course this is your good right but I thought that it was mine to point out how much I disagree with this.

About me

From all the research I had done before hand, I went there with the idea to taper of the Valium. This was the first thing I told the Dr. He made some points that were very valid imho. And yes, i was happy that i didn't have to keep taking those pills. His suggestion to try this for a week and come back to see how things were going made sense to me.

Now to the most important part. I have no problems what so ever. I'm dealing with it fine. If this is still the case on Monday we will extend this program until the Dr sees fit. Then, when i stop with all medication, we will see if it worked or not. If not, we can decide what the next step is. However, if it does, I saved myself from months of useless benzo intake....that makes very good sense to me.

This pretty much sums up things for me :-)

[Sheryl]

....From all the research I had done before hand, I went there with the idea to taper of the Valium. This was the first thing I told the Dr. He made some points that were very valid imho. And yes, i was happy that i didn't have to keep taking those pills. His suggestion to try this for a week and come back to see how things were going made sense to me.

Now to the most important part. I have no problems what so ever. I'm dealing with it fine. If this is still the case on Monday we will extend this program until the Dr sees fit. Then, when i stop with all medication, we will see if it worked or not. If not, we can decide what the next step is. However, if it does, I saved myself from months of useless benzo intake....that makes very good sense to me.

This pretty much sums up things for me :-)

Glad to hear it is going well.

No substitute for treatment by a skilled professional who takes the time to get a detailed history and analyze the individual patient's condition. No two cases are identical and what one patient needs may not be at all what another does.