Thailand To Seize Thaksin's Assets

[sriracha john]

Speculation mounts over Thaksin and his assets

Thaksin departed for Finland to begin a foreign tour on September 9, loading up his government-assigned aircraft with 58 large suitcases and trunks, the official of the national carrier said.

A second aircraft carrying 56 suitcases, an Airbus 340-600, was dispatched from Bangkok to meet up with the prime minister just days before the coup, the official said.

The flow of assets continues to fly out of Thailand:

Thaksin remains in exile in London, reportedly having given up attempts to regain power, and his wife Pojamarn departed Bangkok to join him early Monday, a senior airlines official said.

Pojamarn, widely regarded to have wielded great influence on her husband's decisions, left for England on Thai Airways International flight TG910, carrying five suitcases with her, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity since he was not authorized to give statements to the press.

Suspicion has continued to mount that Thaksin managed to fly out some of his vast assets before last Tuesday's coup.

- Associated Press

[konangrit]

carrying five suitcases with her

That's fairly light for a Billionaires' wife. I'd doubt anything suspicious would be in them considering the close scrutiny she would have been under.

Edited September 25, 2006 by konangrit

[Hermano Lobo]

carrying five suitcases with her

That's fairly light for a Billionaires' wife. I'd doubt anything suspicious would be in them considering the close scrutiny she would have been under.

5 LD3 pallet containers more like.

"Rumours of such an airlift by Russian aircraft have continued to circulate in the international airline community in Bangkok but could not be confirmed."

-The Nation

Can somebody explain Thaksin's continued association with Finland ? There are news reports of the Finns being upset by the coup. Probably been receiving 'bungs' from Toxin ?

Edited September 25, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[Tony Clifton]

They may be short on chicken?

[sriracha john]

Ousted PM's wife leaves for London

The wife of deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Pojaman, left Bangkok early Monday to join her husband in London as the nation's new military leaders launched graft probes against him, the chief of immigration said.

"She has left with two others, her housekeeper and a close friend, at 1:30 am on Thai Airways Flight 910" to London's Heathrow airport," Lieutenant General Suwat Thamrongsrisakul told AFP.

Pojaman is widely believed to have exerted great influence over her husband's activities. Much of the billionaire politician's wealth is held by her and their three children.

Thaksin was in New York for the UN General Assembly when the military seized power during the night of September 19. He then went to London, where he maintains a residence and where one of his daughters is studying.

His two other children are believed to be in Thailand.

The new ruling junta has moved quickly to open investigations into alleged corruption by Thaksin's government and have threatened to seize the assets of anyone found guilty of wrongdoing.

- Agence France Presse

===============================

I guess General Suwat hasn't moved his desk papers over from Head of Immigration to the broom closet space he's been provided as an "inactive post."

Guess if they bring their housekeeper to London, they plan on being there awhile at their luxury mansion. Does she need a work permit to take that job away from a UK citizen?

[george]

Update:

Officials deny Thaksin left Thailand with 'unusual' amount of luggage

BANGKOK: -- Officials have denied Thaksin Shinawatra left Thailand with an 'unusual' amount of baggage, amid reports the ex-premier may have taken large amounts of cash out of the country before a military coup.

Thaksin left the country for a series of foreign engagements 10 days before the coup that ousted him and a later flight from Bangkok which took officials to a summit in Cuba, picked up Thaksin on the way.

'Both flights took off from the military airport and the amount of luggage was not unusual,' Group Captain Montol Suchookorn, a Royal Thai Air Force spokesman, told Agence France-Presse.

--AFP 2006-09-25

[Rhys]

This should be fun reading....

[LaoPo]

Thai corruption inquiries begin

The coup has so far been peaceful and a new PM is expected soon

Thai investigators are starting to look at corruption allegations against ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra.

and:

But the main focus of attention is on the special panel headed by Sawat Chotipanich, which has been given wide-ranging powers to review all projects undertaken by Mr Thaksin and his government, to look for evidence of graft.

"As of now, there have been no assets confiscated," said Mr Sawat.

source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5376732.stm

LaoPo

[Hermano Lobo]

Thaksin was alledgedly only out the country for the UN annual General Yak Yak - which he attends every year around this time, so this journey had been on his travel intinary for a long time - beginning of this year at least, if not having been penciled in after last years UN General meeting.

If indeed the above turns out to be true it would imply he knew what was coming - well before it actually happened, and the problem with this is, that if that is the case he would have sacked Gen Sondthi , not by way of a statement from New York, but before he left Thailand. In fact I find it difficult to beleive he would have actually gone to the UN General Meeting at all if he knew this was coming.

I am sure he had something else in mind. And that is to declare a state of emergency.

It would give him enough reason to move all his stuff out of the country and move his family to a save place.

He would also transfer most of his money out of the country because he knows that declaring a state of emergency would mean a collapsing of the Thai baht.

And what a good moment to declare it when you are safe in a far away country, and let your buddies fight for you.

My feeling is that this coup is just in time. It prevented something much much worse.

Exactly Khun Jean !

Dictators like to find victims/enemies to focus the attention of the masses.

Life for the Farang would have become very difficult indeed.

"A d@mn close run thing" Arthur Wellesley, the 1st Duke of Wellington, refering to his victory over Napoleon at Waterloo.

Edited September 25, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[Tony Clifton]

"the special panel headed by Sawat Chotipanich, which has been given wide-ranging powers to review all projects undertaken by Mr Thaksin and his government, to look for evidence of graft. "

Jaws will drop to the floor. We can't even begin to imagine what went on. The CTX scandal, Shin sale and and airport grafts will be peanuts compared to what'll be found once they start digging.

[Plus]

AFAIK Temasek bought Shin shares on Thai Stock Exchange directly from Thaksin's family members, not from Ample Rich. The money for the deal was transferred to Thai banks - SCB, TMB, and Thanachart. Up until very recently one of the Nation's editors insisted that not all payments have been made (but that might have been to other shareholders, not to Thaksin). He also insisted that Thai authorities are keeping and eye on that money. They don't need to officially freeze the assets, they just get all letargic and reach for mobile phones when someone as much as hints at moving them. Also they can't officially transfer more than 10mil at once without getting clearance from BOT.

There's no way Thaksin could have taken this money in suitcases. Total weight of his 70 bil would have been around 30 tonnes.

They might have moved lots of other cash but not Shin sale money.

I'm a bit worried about Pojamarn flying to London. They might get funny ideas about mobilising support and staging a comeback. Than it might get bloody serious. You would have thought Thaksin got an idea of what he's up against but he'd never listened before. For all his smartness, he might really understand the seriousness of his situation only with a rope around his neck.

[LaoPo]

..................The money for the deal was transferred to Thai banks - SCB, TMB, and Thanachart......................

How are you so sure the money was transferred into Thailand ?

Maybe parts of it but I can't imagine Thaksin be that dumb to have all assets transferred to Thailand.

LaoPo

[Johpa]

I cherish an essay written by Ruth McVey for the introduction of the book that she edited, called "Money and Power in Provincial Thailand", (Silkworm, 2000).

In it she says, about the 1997 Constitution, "Another four decades, and bureaucratic rule was itself overthrown as an obstacle on Thailand's road to good government and modernity. There is no reason to suppose that the order that is now emerging will not itself come to seem archaic, the enemy of future vision of modernity and proper rule. Indeed, the new system may not last long. It is, after all, very narrowly based. It ignores the still-numerous peasantry, the emergent urban working class, the claims and opportunities of religion. Its culture is a Sino-Thai and Western version of Thai-ness, alien to the vast part of the population.....democracy's egalitarianism beds uncomfortably with capitalism's inequality...."

I know not who Ruth McVey is, but those words "Indeed the new system may not last long" certainly qualify her for membership of the I-Told-You-So Club.

McVey is just one of the group of highly respected Southeast Asian scholars from Cornell who define the American School of Southeast Asian studies, akin to their colleagues of the Monash school in Australia. Just about all of the American Southeast Asian academic programs and scholars, as well as most current Thai scholars, can trace their roots back to the Cornell peers of McVey. McVey was probably better known for her work on Indonesia, along with Benedict Anderson (who also writes probing articles on Thailand and whose masterpiece Imagined Communities is a must read) and the late Daniel Lev.

You can't go wrong reading any of the academic literature from members of this group.

[Old Man River]

I reiterate: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/25Sep2006_news04.php

If assets are improperly seized or confiscated, as they were in the previous coup, the whole mess falls apart. The coup isn't interested if having to give back all the confiscated money a few years down the road, as well as being subjected to an assortment of defamation law suits.

Assets may only be seized under the letter of the law and with the proper authorization. Keep in mind, few if any of us are fully versed in Thai law. The coup leaders are not just trying to work within legal boundaries, they are also setting precedents, and avoiding setting precedents. Some actions people would like to see at present are very one sided. You don't want another Thaksin coming along a few years down the road and undertaking unscrupulous actions that were condoned in the past.

I agree with you that any asset seizure must be done within the letter of the law. However, just for the record, no precedents will be set. Thai law does not work this way. In the US, for example, if a Supreme Court judge makes an opinion on a written law, that opinion sets a precedence and becomes the basis for future decisions. Thai law does not work this way. A court opinion does not become the basis for future court decisions. Each court opinion is independent of the others, even if the facts are exactly the same. This, of course, allows for political interference which has happened many times in the past.

Although the Thai legal system does not follow precedent as in English Common Law, and what you say is correct, the Supreme Court of Thailand does try to follow its earlier decisions, so a kind of precedent has been developing even if in practical terms it has only been applied in the highest court. As these cases could well end up before the Supreme Court a Thai kind of precedent could well then be established for future cases going to this court.

A Thai kind of precedent? I do understand what you are saying, but since precedents do not become part of law, there is always the big IF on pending court decisions in Thailand, at any level.

[Old Man River]

AFAIK Temasek bought Shin shares on Thai Stock Exchange directly from Thaksin's family members, not from Ample Rich.

Plus, I will remember not to trust my memory next time. Yes, the shares were sold from Ample Rich to his children in January, 2006 just prior to the Temasek sale.

On the suitcases, my guess is jewelry and other similar valuable personal items. Also, perhaps, documents which were better off not in others hands (shredded items can be re-attached these days).

[marshbags]

If the following article and similar contents are posted anywhere, apologies as i looked but cannot find it.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/26Sep2006_news02.php

Ousted PM's wife joins him in London

London _ The wife of deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra arrived in London yesterday to join her husband, officials said, as graft probes were launched against him in Bangkok.

A Thai Airways International flight carrying Khunying Potjaman, who is widely believed to have exerted great influence over her husband's activities, flew into London's Heathrow airport from Bangkok, said an airline spokesman.

She had been confirmed to be on board the flight by the chief of immigration in Bangkok, Pol Lt-Gen Suwat Thamrongsrisakul, according to AFP.

''She has left with two other people, her housekeeper and a close friend, at 1:30am on Thai Airways Flight 910 to London's Heathrow airport,'' he was quoted as saying. A reliable source said it was her second recent overseas trip.

Khunying Potjaman said she had left for Singapore on a Jetstar Airways flight from Suvarnabhumi airport on Sept 18 with about 30-40 bags and then returned to Bangkok days later.

Mr Thaksin was in New York for the UN General Assembly when the military seized power on Sept 19. He then went to London, where he maintains a residence and where one of his daughters, Pinthongtha, is studying.

His son, Panthongthae, is still in Bangkok. _ BANGKOK POST and AFP

quote...........................................................................

..............................................................ended.

She only took five s.cases to London ( alledgedly so could be more, and how big is a suitcase ? )

Add to that all the stuff flown out on the 2 flights being debated about via Thai airways.

Add to this the 30 to 40 bags she took to Singapore.

Now that,s a bit of excess baggage don,t you think when you " WEIGH " it all up. ( forgive the pun ) and quite a bit of personal stuff just to tied them over ?

A trip to Singapore - then back to Thailand - then on to London. emmmmmmmmmmmm

Is it just my inquisitive mind or could there be some sort of connection, bearing in mind recent business deals earlier this year that the Toxins where involved with ?

As many recognise she is a more than capable overseer to take care of their affairs.

Was she possibly crossing a few "t,s " while at the same time, diverting a few loose baht from it all for spending money.

It is a bit expensive in London when your holidaying after all.

Alledgedly of course

You could get quite a bit of dodgy paperwork into 30 - 40 suitcase as well.

In my own ( personal ) humble opinion, of course.

marshbags

P.S.

Then there are the previous few months going back to April when little bits of insignificant stuff could be moved that i didn,t include along with undeclared / as yet undiscovered items. my my myyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

In for the long haul are we.

Edited September 26, 2006 by marshbags

[fruittbatt]

So Pojaman DID fly to Singapore just prior the coup, taking 30-40 suitcases with her, according to this report.

That is a truly stupendous packing effort if her trip was indeed a reaction to the news of the impending coup.

Of course it IS just possible that this was a harmless shopping jaunt and all the suitcases were in fact EMPTY but I suspect she was acting on orders from mr T & that the trip was a way of disposing of some extremely incriminating evidence.

Curiouser and curiouser.

[Hermano Lobo]

So Pojaman DID fly to Singapore just prior the coup, taking 30-40 suitcases with her, according to this report.

That is a truly stupendous packing effort if her trip was indeed a reaction to the news of the impending coup.

Of course it IS just possible that this was a harmless shopping jaunt and all the suitcases were in fact EMPTY but I suspect she was acting on orders from mr T & that the trip was a way of disposing of some extremely incriminating evidence.

Curiouser and curiouser.

It is obvious that the Criminal I-pay-no Taxin needed a Plan 'B' just in case his own version of a coup scheduled for 20th September did not go his way.

In the event one of his cronies tipped him off about 19th September but by that time he had shipped out a lot of his swag and loot to cover himself for Plan 'B'.

[zink]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but the Aibrbus plane on which Thaksin arrived to the ASEM meeting made a stop in Moscow. This is a "bit" strange, since according to the manufacturer, the plane should be able to fly from Bangkok to Helsinki without a refuelling stop.

After the ASEM meeting Thaksin took a small 10-seat jet to London while the plane that brought him flew back to Thailand , there weren't any reports of unusual baggage movement from that plane in Finland.

Thus, chances are high that those 50-60 suitcases were left in Moscow.

[Hermano Lobo]

The 15,740km (8500nm) ultra long range A340-500 and stretched 372 seat A340-600 are new variants of the Airbus A340 family.

Typical cruising speed Mach 0.83.

A340-500 - Range with 313 passengers 15,742km (8500nm).

A340-600 - Range with 380 passengers 13,890km (7500nm).

BANGKOK to MOSCOW-DOMODEDOVO :-

Effective Period 07 Sep 06 - 28 Oct 06

Dep. Time 1025 Arr. Time 1710

Day : Tu - Thu - Sat

Flight Number & Connection TG974

Stops 0

Travel Time(hh:mm) 9:45 via -

Bangkok to Helsinki:-

Query Result

Sorry..there are no flights for your requested city of departure/destination....

please try again or contact THAI offices for more information.

Edited September 26, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[DrDweeb]

Seems to me Taksin improved and developed Thailand greatly on the world stage and internally during his rule.

He introduced significant improvements to peoples lives with the hospital and the one product one tambon schemes.

I am told that his attacks on the drug trade while too violent has reduced the growth of this industry and annoyed many Thai gangsters. Its these people that ordinary Thais should get rid of!

Compared to previous Thai leaders I think he was superior in action and benefits to Thailand.

And, much of the complaint against him appears to be jealousy.

I think he will accept whatever is thrown at him provided its handled by the legal system and not simply a political witchhunt by an elite minority that could not achieve enough votes to topple him constitutionally.

Oh my, you really are naive.

Democracy requires certain preconditions to continue to exist (and flourish). Not all these preconditions are met in Thailand. As such, an unscrupulous individual, once democratically elected, is able to acquire absolute control through the subversion of public institutions, authorities and individuals.

This has happenned before in the history of democracy, and will doubtless happen again, and certainly happenned in Thailand under Toxin.

I am personally quite happy with the good General's moves, as they break a deadlock and guarantee that a Toxin coup to make his position unassailable (something that most every educated person expected any day from Toxin) did not occur.

Hamas and Hizbollah have public support for the same reasons that Toxin had substantial public support. Those organisations, like Toxin, can inexpensively maintain that support and go about their dirty business - in Toxin's case acquisition of extreme wealth and supreme executive power (bombing people for the others named).

People are not jealous of Toxin, they are asking the not unreasonable question of just how did he amass such extreme wealth in such a short space of time, and why he has felt it necessary to lie about it knowingly, subvert the activities of the state auditor general etc. etc.

I hope this post is sufficiently intellectual to pass the censorship muster.

[Plus]

From the Nation:

However, it is an open secret in the capital that the Shinawatra family still keeps some Bt50 billion from the sale of Shin Corp to Temasek Holdings of Singapore in Thai banks, including Siam Commercial Bank, Bangkok Bank and Thanachart Bank.

No Thai Military Bank. Sorry.

[Old Man River]

From the Nation:

However, it is an open secret in the capital that the Shinawatra family still keeps some Bt50 billion from the sale of Shin Corp to Temasek Holdings of Singapore in Thai banks, including Siam Commercial Bank, Bangkok Bank and Thanachart Bank.

No Thai Military Bank. Sorry.

Plus, your opinion only, do you think the former PM got any of the proceeds from the Temasek sale out of Thailand?

[Plus]

In my opinion, no, not a significant amount. Shinawatras got lots of other assets to worry about. I imagine if they smelled the coup, they were afraid of looting. That would explain the number of suitcases.

[Heng]

Page 12 of wishful thinking that the PM is going to be hurting for funds.

These funds were never meant to be stored in the LOS in the first place. Would you keep the bulk of your funds in a country that automatically taxes your interest revenue?

[Old Man River]

In my opinion, no, not a significant amount. Shinawatras got lots of other assets to worry about. I imagine if they smelled the coup, they were afraid of looting. That would explain the number of suitcases.

For me, I find it very hard to believe that someone as street smart as he is would not have a good amount stored around the world in different places. He was wealthy prior to the Temasek sale, and if those proceeds are still here, then I would think he would have been comfortable with what he already had protected.

I totally agree on the other assets. I would imagine the safety deposit boxes of several banks in Europe are now being visited to store these assets.

[Plus]

That the funds are still in Thailand is an "open secret" published in the Nation. Perhaps our own "middle ranking banking official" can add something to the rumor mill here. Over to K. Siriporn.

Maybe Thaksin didn't expect the funds to be quietly frozen. He miscalculated the whole deal and inability to transfer the funds out of the country could have been one of the mistakes.

I mean yes, it sounds stupid, but can anyone give a good reason to sell Shin in the first place?

[DrDweeb]

Page 12 of wishful thinking that the PM is going to be hurting for funds.

These funds were never meant to be stored in the LOS in the first place. Would you keep the bulk of your funds in a country that automatically taxes your interest revenue?

Like Australia ?

[ColPyat]

I mean yes, it sounds stupid, but can anyone give a good reason to sell Shin in the first place?

Because the event of the next generation of telekom technology, the necessary huge investments, and WTO rules places a internationally comparable small, mainly family owned public company in the telekom business at a huge disadvantage in competition to the other, far larger global players.

He sold at the right time in order to leave the business at the top of the game.

That is how you generally do business nowadays - you build up a company, and sell it when the price is right and move on.

That is how is was explained to me by more knowledgable people without political or nationalist agendas.

[Scott]

I very much doubt that all that money is in Thailand. It is just not very smart to have all your eggs in one basket and one thing about Mr. Thaksin is that he is not stupid. There are plenty of places where the money can be kept without being taxed. I mean why was Ample Rich set up in the Bahamas?