Thai pilots lose out to foreign nationals, petition NLA intervention

[Soutpeel]

Yeah I read you flew in over 200 flights, big deal, that could have been 200 flights of 5km's, lasting no more than 15 minutes a time, nothing wrong with my comprehension, now how many hours have you got as a rotary wing pilot that you feel you have the experience to criticise a forum member with over 1500 hours as one.

I watched all the episodes of Greys Anatomy, it didn't qualify me as a medic!!

Never claimed i was a pilot anywhere

what gives me the right to criticise a forum member who claims 1500 hours,? the same right the said member excerised in slagging off a group of people he has no direct experience of or involvement with ...that right

Further you will note same member went off the rails and called my wife a BG and suggested she get off her last customer in a completely off topic manner,

So one could suggest said member is unstable, angry little man who could also be prone to making things up as well

Edited August 14, 2015 by Soutpeel

[h90]

Well that would be very stupid.....importing millions of foreigner and having a very high unemployment rate doesn't make sense.

They have zero unemployment and have already imported millions. I expect these 12 unemployed pilots to swell the numbers considerably.

but they make it difficult.....if always the best would get the job, almost all technical jobs would be made by Indians and all manual work by Cambodians. No need for Thais....

Not really. Any company that really wants to import people can import. But, there isn't much advantage in importing that massive amount of middle management. However, in many many factories, the manual labour is done exclusively by Cambodians. Factories just build accomodation and import them en masse from the day the factory opens. Have seen it first hand. This is absolutely wrong.

The advantage many of these imports have is that they will work for less. I have seen some imported middle level skilled workers in Rayong in various businesses. I don't see that there is an enormous difference in competence between similarly qualified Indians or Thais. Plently of hard working, competent Thais around. Problem is, are there enough of them if companies are to continue opening factories or offices here.

not importing middle management or skilled worker because it is terrible bureaucratic. As well these people can't speak Thai. Would you make it easy the need for Thai language skills would vanish as Indians would talk to Indians. Try to find skilled CNC operator in Thailand or Thais who are willing to learn it (lots of mathematics). Even in Australia most (or many) CNC operators are Indians. That is just one example.

Airport staff that speaks at least decent English?

Web Designer?

No not all Thais would be jobless but many would be....

[chainarong]

Well, let's see. Maybe if the Thai pilots were as competent as the foreign pilots, this wouldn't be an issue.

It depends on the contract , some foreigners don't like operating in High risk work area's with any nationals than their own , this I seen happen in Indonesia as I was a part of a specialist team , also some companies will only fly with top rating airlines (IE Singapore) for their employee's.

[tingtongfarang]

Same in papua, even the natives often wont board unless its a western pilot even with low hours, most seem to be brits.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts, insulting posts and replies have been removed.

[Soutpeel]

Same in papua, even the natives often wont board unless its a western pilot even with low hours, most seem to be brits.

Also come across a lot of Aussies and Canadians over the years as well

[EmptyHead]

I get a good laugh out of how they proect their dumb asses so well. I wonder if they know?

[WhizBang]

Well, let's see. Maybe if the Thai pilots were as competent as the foreign pilots, this wouldn't be an issue.

The thai pilots currently flying for the same companies are very competant, the problem is there are not enough Thai pilots with the experience and hours required,

but i shall bow down to your superior knowlege of all things pertaining to flying a chopper and your vast years of aviation experience flying a bar stool

Really? Then why are these Thais complaining that foreigners are being hired in place of them? Could it be, that these Thais that are complaining are not properly qualified, but want the job anyway? We all know for a fact, that safety is very very low on the priorities of any Thai.

[Don Mega]

Same in papua, even the natives often wont board unless its a western pilot even with low hours, most seem to be brits.

Always did find it a bit unsettling to see the russian pilots rooms at the Rimba lined up with empty vodka bottles outside in the morning only to hear them overhead flying up to the mine in conditions that can only be described as pea soup.

[Soutpeel]

Same in papua, even the natives often wont board unless its a western pilot even with low hours, most seem to be brits.

Always did find it a bit unsettling to see the russian pilots rooms at the Rimba lined up with empty vodka bottles outside in the morning only to hear them overhead flying up to the mine in conditions that can only be described as pea soup.

Don you every flown in Vietnam years ago under Petro vietnam with those Russian Pilots ? That was scary LOL went on Chopper once never again Edited August 14, 2015 by Soutpeel

[metisdead]

An off topic nonsense post has been removed.

[Don Mega]

Same in papua, even the natives often wont board unless its a western pilot even with low hours, most seem to be brits.

Always did find it a bit unsettling to see the russian pilots rooms at the Rimba lined up with empty vodka bottles outside in the morning only to hear them overhead flying up to the mine in conditions that can only be described as pea soup.

Don you every flown in Vietnam years ago under Petro vietnam with those Russian Pilots ? That was scary LOL went on Chopper once never again

I have never been on a chopper.

Was working at Freeport on the low lands... I did get an invite to go up the hill in the chopper but after seeing the vodka bottles every morning I declined.

[magnacarta]

Makes you worry about there Passenger jet pilots.

If you only knew you would never fly with a Thai airline captain.

[watcharacters]

maybe the oil companies are concerned about the helicopter landing properly on their 600 million dollar oil rig without blowing the whole thing up?

and how does a Thai helicopter pilot compete with a USA, UK, AU, NATO or even Russian pilots with years of real combat flight experience and the best training in the world?

they don't...

Well,

They could always start a war with one of their neighbors to get the practice.

[HooHaa]

- Considering the country is crippled by corruption

- Considering the education level can be "bought" as the parents don t want to lose face and for exemple it is forbidden to put a "F" to any copy whatever shit is on it.

- Considering the Thai Army was able to crash an Helicopter in Burma then send another on to the rescue which crashed as well you can maybe understand that corruption and safety cannot be really good friends to each other.

- Considering Thai Airways is banned from Japan/Australia and so on

- Considering that the Ghosts/Karma/FengShui and black magic is believed by most of them as well as the dear Commandante PM Prayouth..

It may be understandable that some of us may have doubts about the capacity of some of the pilots to be efficient, or the staff taking care of the helicos...

all your argument proves is that you have an axe to grind.

[tonbridgebrit]

Why not be like in most civilized countries and hire the best person for the job. If the local lads can do just as well, then they will be hired, but if they are worse, cost more to train, well they can go learn on their own baht to catch up.

Well that would be very stupid.....importing millions of foreigner and having a very high unemployment rate doesn't make sense.

Well, we might as well say that unemployment is high in EU countries like Spain and Greece, and yet, the EU still imports foreign workers (those who are not from the EU). In Spain, supposedly, lots of the farm workers there are from North Africa, and some of them are illegal migrant workers.

Actually, how about America ? There is unemployment amongst Americans. But America still imports workers from outside of the US. Why ?

[Soutpeel]

Makes you worry about there Passenger jet pilots.

If you only knew you would never fly with a Thai airline captain.

How will the vast majority of posters do their visa runs then ? most can only afford the low cost airlines ?

But what dont we know ?

[tonbridgebrit]

And this is exactly what to expect when ASEAN integration becomes a reality. Thailand will use its antiquated, xenophobic, and protectionist regulations to block the hiring of foreign talent. After all, how can Thais compete with properly trained and experienced professionals?

You have made your point, and indeed, the future ASEAN rules on freedom of movement for skilled workers will mean lots of Thais will lose their jobs. It will be Vietnamese and Phillipinos who will be turning up in Thailand, and doing those jobs. Yes, Vietnam and the Phillipinnes stand to gain the most, not Thailand.

So, you accept that Thailand does NOT actually benefit from the freedom of movement of skilled workers ? After all, a load of Thais are going to lose their jobs. From that, if Thailand was to not want to be fully in with ASEAN, well, would that be surprising ? Maybe Thailand should look to China, and join China as a free trade zone, maybe this will be better for Thailand.

I really do think that every nation should look at freedom of movement of workers, and ask itself "are we really going to benefit from this". Some will, some will not, those who don't benefit should be allowed to restrict or stop the movement of foreigners into their country. Those countries who feel that they will benefit by exporting their own talented young people, maybe they should ask as to why they can't get their own skilled people to build up their own country ?

Why be a mercenary and fight for a foreign army because the pay is better, when you can fight for your own country and live with dignity and self respect ?

[Soutpeel]

And this is exactly what to expect when ASEAN integration becomes a reality. Thailand will use its antiquated, xenophobic, and protectionist regulations to block the hiring of foreign talent. After all, how can Thais compete with properly trained and experienced professionals?

You have made your point, and indeed, the future ASEAN rules on freedom of movement for skilled workers will mean lots of Thais will lose their jobs. It will be Vietnamese and Phillipinos who will be turning up in Thailand, and doing those jobs. Yes, Vietnam and the Phillipinnes stand to gain the most, not Thailand.

So, you accept that Thailand does NOT actually benefit from the freedom of movement of skilled workers ? After all, a load of Thais are going to lose their jobs. From that, if Thailand was to not want to be fully in with ASEAN, well, would that be surprising ? Maybe Thailand should look to China, and join China as a free trade zone, maybe this will be better for Thailand.

I really do think that every nation should look at freedom of movement of workers, and ask itself "are we really going to benefit from this". Some will, some will not, those who don't benefit should be allowed to restrict or stop the movement of foreigners into their country. Those countries who feel that they will benefit by exporting their own talented young people, maybe they should ask as to why they can't get their own skilled people to build up their own country ?

Why be a mercenary and fight for a foreign army because the pay is better, when you can fight for your own country and live with dignity and self respect ?

But the question is will citizens of other Asean member countries just be able to rock up in Thailand or any other Asean country and start working one thinks not, one suspects they will not do something as daft as they have done in the EU, but if they do The "English teachers" from farangistan countries need to be looking for a new country to slum it in

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

[tonbridgebrit]

And this is exactly what to expect when ASEAN integration becomes a reality. Thailand will use its antiquated, xenophobic, and protectionist regulations to block the hiring of foreign talent. After all, how can Thais compete with properly trained and experienced professionals?

You have made your point, and indeed, the future ASEAN rules on freedom of movement for skilled workers will mean lots of Thais will lose their jobs. It will be Vietnamese and Phillipinos who will be turning up in Thailand, and doing those jobs. Yes, Vietnam and the Phillipinnes stand to gain the most, not Thailand.

So, you accept that Thailand does NOT actually benefit from the freedom of movement of skilled workers ? After all, a load of Thais are going to lose their jobs. From that, if Thailand was to not want to be fully in with ASEAN, well, would that be surprising ? Maybe Thailand should look to China, and join China as a free trade zone, maybe this will be better for Thailand.

I really do think that every nation should look at freedom of movement of workers, and ask itself "are we really going to benefit from this". Some will, some will not, those who don't benefit should be allowed to restrict or stop the movement of foreigners into their country. Those countries who feel that they will benefit by exporting their own talented young people, maybe they should ask as to why they can't get their own skilled people to build up their own country ?

Why be a mercenary and fight for a foreign army because the pay is better, when you can fight for your own country and live with dignity and self respect ?

But the question is will citizens of other Asean member countries just be able to rock up in Thailand or any other Asean country and start working one thinks not, one suspects they will not do something as daft as they have done in the EU, but if they do The "English teachers" from farangistan countries need to be looking for a new country to slum it in

Soutpeel, I think the "freedom of movement of skilled workers within ASEAN for 2015" is or was a big red herring. As in, it was greatly exaggerated by the newspapers !

In reality, ASEAN is nowhere near what the EU is like. If everybody in ASEAN (skilled and semi-skilled) was to be allowed to move around freely in ASEAN, just rock up as you say (and look fior a job), well, half the population of Vietnam, Philipines, Burma, Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia, will be moving into places like Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore.

Yes, them last three countries have average incomes that are considerably higher than the others. Singapore might sink under the weight of the new people !

The point is, there hasn't actually been a new freedom of movement of skilled workers in ASEAN. 2015 has not seen a flood of Vietnamese and Philiipinos turning up in Thailand. We know that.

Yes, I agree, a lot of Phillipinos can speak good English, a lot of them can teach it. If they allowed Phillipinos who can speak good English to work as teachers in Thailand, well yes, about half the 'fahrang' English teachers would be out of a job. One man's gain is another man's loss !

[Bulldozer Dawn]

The emphasis of the O and G industry is safety.

A prominent conerstone of safety is competency.

Are Thai pilots as competent as the foreign nationals?

Or did they train in....ahem...Thailand.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Bulldozer Dawn

[balo]

Put a unqualified Thai pilot inside a helicopter and you have a potential disaster waiting to happen. I would fear for my life if I had to fly out to the oil rigs.

[Soutpeel]

The emphasis of the O and G industry is safety.

A prominent conerstone of safety is competency.

Are Thai pilots as competent as the foreign nationals?

Or did they train in....ahem...Thailand.

Lets put it this way O&G has been on the go in the gulf of Thailand for over 50 years and how many chopper accidents or crashed have there been in the gulf of Thailand whether foreigner or Thai at the controls ? As far as i am aware and stand to be corrected of course the answer is ZERO

Over the same 50 year period how many in the north sea or the Gulf of mexico ? And before someone says it not all chopper crashes in the north sea are weather related either

A quick statistic relating to the Gulf of Mexico - 1983 to 2009 - 163 chopper crashes in O&G operations

Edited August 14, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

Put a unqualified Thai pilot inside a helicopter and you have a potential disaster waiting to happen. I would fear for my life if I had to fly out to the oil rigs.

So same comment as to the previous poster how many chopper crashes related to off shore oil and gas operations in the gulf of Thailand in the last 50 odd years ?

As someone who does fly out to the rigs even with Thai driving

i have more fear driving on the roads in Thailand or riding in a metered Taxi around BKK than i do getting on a chopper with these guys oh and you do know there is more than one pilot dont you flying

Edited August 14, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Srikcir]

Well, let's see. Maybe if the Thai pilots were as competent as the foreign pilots, this wouldn't be an issue.

The thai pilots currently flying for the same companies are very competant, the problem is there are not enough Thai pilots with the experience and hours required,

but i shall bow down to your superior knowlege of all things pertaining to flying a chopper and your vast years of aviation experience flying a bar stool

No, the problem is in part zenophobic discrimination against foreign pilots:

"The association argues that these routes should be handled by Thai nationals."

Although Thai and foreigners have equal piloting skills, the Association wants Thai hiring preferences.

[bangrak]

Well, let's see. Maybe if the Thai pilots were as competent as the foreign pilots, this wouldn't be an issue.

The thai pilots currently flying for the same companies are very competant, the problem is there are not enough Thai pilots with the experience and hours required,

but i shall bow down to your superior knowlege of all things pertaining to flying a chopper and your vast years of aviation experience flying a bar stool

Thank you for telling us there are not enough Thai pilots with the experience and hours required (but you call them 'competent...)!

Please advise the companies about a solution then:

a) keep their choppers on the ground;

allow Thai pilots with not enough experience and flying hours, with all liabilities; or,

c) hire foreigners with the required experience and hours, and fly safely according to the book.

Hope this is not a nutcracker of a multiple choice to you, and with your obvious vast experience in flying jets, you for sure know how strict the rules are.

I don't have over 20,000 'opinions' on TV, but yours on this topic doesn't, in my opinion that is, seem like very 'competent' indeed...

Edited August 14, 2015 by bangrak

[Soutpeel]

Well, let's see. Maybe if the Thai pilots were as competent as the foreign pilots, this wouldn't be an issue.

The thai pilots currently flying for the same companies are very competant, the problem is there are not enough Thai pilots with the experience and hours required,

but i shall bow down to your superior knowlege of all things pertaining to flying a chopper and your vast years of aviation experience flying a bar stool

No, the problem is in part zenophobic discrimination against foreign pilots:

"The association argues that these routes should be handled by Thai nationals."

Although Thai and foreigners have equal piloting skills, the Association wants Thai hiring preferences.

its not Zenophobic in the least companies investing in Thailand and many other countries i might add are typically required to formulate nationalisation polices which are implemented over a period of years and foreigner "experts" are brought in for a period of time to train the locals, thats all this sabre rattling is all about,

something similar happened last year with similar comments from the association at the end of the day the assocation can flap their lips as much as they want the aircraft dont belong to them

if they pushed the issue too far and the company concerned pulled out and took their choppers, the O & G industry would be thrown into chaos and guess whose pocket it would hit ? Thailands you cant replace a fleet of aircraft over night

TV finest seem so fixated and blinded on Thai bashing they dont apply any common sense to the issue

[bangrak]

The emphasis of the O and G industry is safety.

A prominent conerstone of safety is competency.

Are Thai pilots as competent as the foreign nationals?

Or did they train in....ahem...Thailand.

Lets put it this way O&G has been on the go in the gulf of Thailand for over 50 years and how many chopper accidents or crashed have there been in the gulf of Thailand whether foreigner or Thai at the controls ? As far as i am aware and stand to be corrected of course the answer is ZERO

Over the same 50 year period how many in the north sea or the Gulf of mexico ? And before someone says it not all chopper crashes in the north sea are weather related either

A quick statistic relating to the Gulf of Mexico - 1983 to 2009 - 163 chopper crashes in O&G operations

As you seem to be so good in statistics, could you please write down in a column A) Gulf of Mexico and a Gulf of Thailand, 1) the number of O&G installations served by choppers; 2) the number of choppers being operated in related activities; 3) the number of take-offs/landings in such; 4) the number of flying hours in such; 5) the number of pilots having been flying such? The 6) being your 163 to nil crashrecord. That would be informative indeed.

Thank you so much!

[Soutpeel]

Well, let's see. Maybe if the Thai pilots were as competent as the foreign pilots, this wouldn't be an issue.

The thai pilots currently flying for the same companies are very competant, the problem is there are not enough Thai pilots with the experience and hours required,

but i shall bow down to your superior knowlege of all things pertaining to flying a chopper and your vast years of aviation experience flying a bar stool

Thank you for telling us there are not enough Thai pilots with the experience and hours required (but you call them 'competent...)!

Please advise the companies about a solution then:

a) keep their choppers on the ground;

allow Thai pilots with not enough experience and flying hours, with all liabilities; or,

c) hire foreigners with the required experience and hours, and fly safely according to the book.

Hope this is not a nutcracker of a multiple choice to you, and with your obvious vast experience in flying jets, you for sure know how strict the rules are.

I don't have over 20,000 'opinions' on TV, but yours on this topic doesn't, in my opinion that is, seem like very 'competent' indeed...

You obviously dont have a clue do you the only nut cracker appears to be you dear boy