Trump immigration proposal divides GOP presidential field

[webfact]

Trump immigration proposal divides GOP presidential field
By THOMAS BEAUMONT

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Donald Trump is dividing his Republican presidential rivals anew with his call to rewrite the Constitution to crack down on millions of immigrants living in the U.S. illegally, and to force Mexico to pay for a better border fence. Scott Walker embraced some of the plan Monday, but other contenders, such as Chris Christie and Carly Fiorina, dismissed elements as unworkable.

Trump's immigration proposal, his first formal policy plan since announcing his candidacy in June, won praise Monday from the GOP's conservative tea partyers, some of whom favor changing the Constitution to reverse the "birthright citizenship" guaranteed to anyone born in the United States, no matter the status of their parents. At the same time, surveys show a majority of Americans, including Republicans, support allowing many immigrants in the U.S. illegally to stay.

Trump leads his Republican rivals in national polls, and his proposal quickly reverberated within the party, which has struggled with the issue of immigration.

Party leaders are determined to expand the GOP's appeal with Hispanics after the 2012 election in which Mitt Romney won just 27 percent of the Latino vote. But many Republicans have adopted a hardline approach on immigrants, appealing to the party's core voters who play an oversized role in nominating primaries and caucuses.

Asked at the Iowa State Fair on Monday if he supports building a wall along the U.S. Mexican border, as Trump has proposed, Wisconsin Gov. Walker gave a quick "yes," but he declined to address whether he supports deporting children of parents in the country illegally. "Going forward, the best thing we can do is enforce the law," he said.

Walker, who reversed his position in April on allowing a chance for legal status for those in the country illegally, also gave mixed answers on ending birthright citizenship.

Christie said during a CNN interview that a wall or fence along parts of the border, especially in more urban and difficult-to-control areas, was conceivable, but "not the entire border. Doesn't make any sense." Likewise, the New Jersey governor is opposed to requiring Mexico to pay for the construction, saying Trump's suggestion "makes no sense."

"And this is not negotiation of a real estate deal, OK. This is international diplomacy and it's different," Christie said, noting Trump's line of business. Former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina called Trump's wall plan, "completely unrealistic."

Trump wasn't flinching Monday.

"The wall will work," he said when he arrived for jury duty in New York and a passer-by at the courthouse asked about the idea. He spent much of the day like other prospective jurors, filling out forms and waiting to see if he would be picked. In the end, he wasn't.

Like Trump's early derogatory campaign statements about immigrants, his new plan has lit up angry conservatives. But it also has annoyed Republicans who see the nation's growing Latino population as an opportunity to demonstrate sensitivity to minorities who have voted overwhelmingly Democratic in recent presidential elections.

Tea party movement co-founder Mark Meckler said Trump's "position on deportation generally reflects what likely voters think. Trump is dealing head-on with the difficult issues while more establishment candidates fret over focus groups and polls."

Trump also is calling for eliminating federal aid to "sanctuary cities," such as San Francisco, where local officials have decided not to use their police to enforce some federal immigration laws. The position is also supported by former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush.

Like Christie, however, Bush differs sharply with Trump on other aspects of immigration policy. Though he didn't chime in specifically on Trump's new proposal, Bush supports allowing people in the country illegally who have not committed major crimes, who work and follow a course such as learning English and paying fines, to stay in the United States.

In a late July Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, 64 percent of Americans said they support either a path to permanent legal status or citizenship for immigrants in the country illegally. According to the poll, a small majority of Republicans fall into the same category.

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, also speaking at the fair, called Trump's proposal "gibberish," but warned it also sends a hostile signal toward Latinos voters.

"You're not going to get 11 million people and drive them back out of this country," he said. "That's just not practical. That's going to kill the Republican Party."

Though Ohio Gov. John Kasich supports building a wall, he, like Bush supports maintaining birthright citizenship and allowing a pathway to legal status for immigrants.

"They are a very important part of most of our communities," Kasich said in South Carolina. "For the bulk of them, they are God-fearing, good, hardworking people, and they are a part of our country now."

Fiorina said to change birthright citizenship would be rigorous. "It would take passing a constitutional amendment to get that changed. This is part of our 14th Amendment, and so honestly I think we should put all of our energies, all of our political will over finally getting the border secured and fixing the legal immigration system."
___

Associated Press writer Catherine Lucey contributed. Meg Kinnard contributed from South Carolina.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-08-18

[khwaibah]

GO Trump GO

[mamypoko]

Our very own carnival barker.

[Usernames]

US immigration policy should serve the interests of Americans, not Mexicans or others. Trump is right. Fiorina, Christie, and the rest of the Chamber of Commerce lackeys already sound like they are running on outdated political platforms. The wheel of history has passed them by. Otherwise, this article is a cut and paste job, always pushing the same propaganda about the hispanic colossus within the US who are going to punish Americans if we don't let in all of Central and South America. That nonsense is about to get flushed, along with the illegals pushing the idea.

[TimmyT]

the only person who can save America from it's own populists (curry favoring minorities) is Trump. but for sure democrat-republican cooperation will not let an independent candidate to win.

independent candidate?

this is not what American bogus democracy system was build for!

[Thakkar]

"Mr. Trump, put up that wall!"

~Ronald Raven (as quoted by Rick Perry)

T

[elgordo38]

GO Trump GO

Shake em up Donald. The rest of back runners only want to garner more Latino votes(75% went to the Democrats last election) by telling these people what they want to hear. Thats what politics is all about. Feed the masses bullshit to get their vote endear them to you and afterwards who gives a FF.

[arjunadawn]

US immigration policy should serve the interests of Americans, not Mexicans or others. Trump is right. Fiorina, Christie, and the rest of the Chamber of Commerce lackeys already sound like they are running on outdated political platforms. The wheel of history has passed them by. Otherwise, this article is a cut and paste job, always pushing the same propaganda about the hispanic colossus within the US who are going to punish Americans if we don't let in all of Central and South America. That nonsense is about to get flushed, along with the illegals pushing the idea.

This should be posted twice. Right on!

[Nobb]

My grand father and my grand mother cam to America legally just as all aliens in the early US history. But know there are so many illegals who want there families to live in America without going thru official procedures. Thank you Democratic party for you are truly trying to bring down America with your new immigration rules. Trump called it as it is so all you so called politicans will now have to answer how you feel about this matter. If it is to hot in the kitchen get out of the furnace!

[Usernames]

There is no division, here. The pandering, Chamber of Commerce lackeys have just been identified and isolated. The electorate is against them. They will be vaporized.

[Publicus]

US immigration policy should serve the interests of Americans, not Mexicans or others. Trump is right. Fiorina, Christie, and the rest of the Chamber of Commerce lackeys already sound like they are running on outdated political platforms. The wheel of history has passed them by. Otherwise, this article is a cut and paste job, always pushing the same propaganda about the hispanic colossus within the US who are going to punish Americans if we don't let in all of Central and South America. That nonsense is about to get flushed, along with the illegals pushing the idea.

This should be posted twice. Right on!

Perhaps as an illustration of wrongheadedness and confusion.

United States immigration policy has always been in the primary and principal interests of the United States. Anyone who would contend otherwise needs to return to Junior Achievement to start again. An unrelenting miserable cynicism never got a society or country anywhere positive or worthy of respectability.

[spidermike007]

My grand father and my grand mother cam to America legally just as all aliens in the early US history. But know there are so many illegals who want there families to live in America without going thru official procedures. Thank you Democratic party for you are truly trying to bring down America with your new immigration rules. Trump called it as it is so all you so called politicans will now have to answer how you feel about this matter. If it is to hot in the kitchen get out of the furnace!

The part you are conveniently leaving out, is that the immigration system in the US is so broken, it is nearly impossible for a person without wealth, connections or massively rare skills, to come to the US legally any more. Almost impossible. The quotas are so low, and the bar is set so high, unless you are wealthy, forget about it. Many in the US refuse to acknowledge this element of the problem. Simple minded men like Trump enjoy making it sound simple. But, it is a very complex problem. We need the workers, as Americans will not do most of the work that these workers will perform. Most studies show that it is a net gain to the US economy, on so many levels. Yet, xenophobic hooligans like Disgusting Donald "trump" silly, childish, racist policy and people buy into it. It is not about preventing these aliens from doing the work. It is about keeping America WHITE. And that is a losing battle. It has been a long time since America was white, and why care anyway? The rainbow is a beautiful thing.

[F430murci]

People are attracted to Trump because for once we did not have some whinny, butt kissing politician that only says things they think people want to hear whether they really feel that way or mean it.

Trump, for once, actually provides a yard stick with which to measure other politicians. Until Trump, it really did not come across how weak and how woos politicians are.

When normal politicians accidentally say something that is not well received (even if they believe in what they said) they start their little whinny "oh, I am sorry, I did not really mean it that way, the other side has taken it out of context, let me explain what I really meant" POLITICAL BACK PEDDLING ROUTINE.

Trump doe not back peddle, he does not apologize for saying what he believes (whether you like it or not) and does not make excuses for what he said.

I was anit-Trump for president early on, but in the last week or so . . . I kind of like someone who is actually honest about what they feel and think and will try to do when in office. I voted for Obama who turned out doing exactly the opposite of many things I thought would try to do because he was another Politician that talked one way and acted another to get votes.

[mamypoko]

All due respect to Trump for showing up, but let's not forget who this loud mouth, self promoting, come vigilante is.

We Americans always want to elect a 'Superman'

And sometimes, we are graced to get an administrator.

[sirineou]

I hate to have to agree with Trump and after this I will wash my mouth with soap but there is such thing in the US legal system as Unjust Enrichment. I understand if some one is born in the US LEGALY but if the parents are here illegally, then the birth in this country should also be illegal, and one should not be unjustly enriched via illegal activity.

I Think such argument might have merit if brought in front of the US Supreme Court and the constitution might not need to be changed

[chuckd]

I hate to have to agree with Trump and after this I will wash my mouth with soap but

there is such thing in the US legal system as Unjust Enrichment.

I understand if some one is born in the US LEGALY

but if the parents are here illegally, then the birth in this country should also be illegal, and one should not be unjustly

enriched via illegal activity.

I Think such argument might have merit if brought in front of the US Supreme Court and the constitution might not need to be changed

I think the phrase you are looking for is..."and subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

Your post deserves a gin and tonic mouth washing, nothing less will do.

[Thakkar]

Trump speech in Alabama, Aug 24

Trade? Were gonna fix it. Healthcare? Were gonna fix it. Womens health issues? Were gonna fix it.

Two H. L. Mencken quotes are apropos of the current situation:

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." and,

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

It's very disconcerting the way a campaign based on combining empty boasting with blatant racism strikes so many people as "The Truth".

"Ice creams blowjobs for all. And don't worry 'bout paying for it; I'll get Mexico to pay."

Trump/Palin 2016!

T

[Thakkar]

If there was really any desire to prevent undocumented workers from coming one would simply need to eliminate the jobs. To do that one would have to prosecute the employers/exploiters of said undocumented workers. Throw a few landscape contractors or the CEO of a meat packing plant behind bars and see what happens. There would be no need for walls, because without the jobs, few would come.

Is any candidate seriously proposing his?

[sirineou]

If there was really any desire to prevent undocumented workers from coming one would simply need to eliminate the jobs. To do that one would have to prosecute the employers/exploiters of said undocumented workers. Throw a few landscape contractors or the CEO of a meat packing plant behind bars and see what happens. There would be no need for walls, because without the jobs, few would come.

Is any candidate seriously proposing his?

what you say is true,

There are many contractors out there who really do not want to use illegal labor but if they want to be competitive against their competition who uses illegal labor, they are forced to use it also.

[Thakkar]

If there was really any desire to prevent undocumented workers from coming one would simply need to eliminate the jobs. To do that one would have to prosecute the employers/exploiters of said undocumented workers. Throw a few landscape contractors or the CEO of a meat packing plant behind bars and see what happens. There would be no need for walls, because without the jobs, few would come.

Is any candidate seriously proposing his?

what you say is true,

There are many contractors out there who really do not want to use illegal labor but if they want to be competitive against their competition who uses illegal labor, they are forced to use it also.

If only things were that simple. Your anecdotal observation is correct, but isn't the full story.

A lot of the work that illegals do is work for which it is virtually impossible to find legal American workers at any wage (within reason). And the Americans that *are* willing to do the work are nowhere near as reliable, efficient, skilled or enthusiastic as the illegals.

The solution to America's labor needs, especially seasonal labor needs, is to allow the needed labourers to come over, ensure they get to work under safe conditions, are paid a reasonable wage (not necessarily full American minimum wage) and have access to health care if they are injured in the course of their work. Meanwhile, American workers willing (and able!) to do the work should be given priority hiring at full market wage. Consumers would also have to be willing to pay a little more at the supermarket. Employers have to be willing to settle for lower profits and greater regulation and oversight that would be necessary to ensure everybody's getting a fair deal and sticking to the rules.

Such nuanced and constructive approaches don't lend themselves to nifty political soundbites, don't serve corporate interests and, crucially, don't help get lazy, corporate-dick-sucking politicians elected. Much easier for these politicians to pander to racist and fearful Americans by feeding their irrational hate/anger/fear and offer vacuous soundbites and unrealistic but simple-sounding "solutions", then get into office and proceed to do nothing.

T

[Pinot]

The Republican field isn't really divided. It's just a nuance of "throw all the Mexicans out."

Trump has never explained how he would deport 11 million illegals...details, details. You got to hand it to Christy with that FedEx tracking method, that's brilliant! And that 2000 mile wall, I wonder if we'll be able to see it from space? It's already visible in the Wingnutoshere.

Republicans only care about two things...ME and MY MONEY.

I'll bet the Native Americans would like to deport 340 million farangs.

Hillary using Trump as a mole has been a huge success.

The Republicans so deserve Trump. It's the definition of schadenfreude for me. The gift that keeps on giving every day (he can't keep his pie hole shut).

[chuckd]

If there was really any desire to prevent undocumented workers from coming one would simply need to eliminate the jobs. To do that one would have to prosecute the employers/exploiters of said undocumented workers. Throw a few landscape contractors or the CEO of a meat packing plant behind bars and see what happens. There would be no need for walls, because without the jobs, few would come.

Is any candidate seriously proposing his?

what you say is true,

There are many contractors out there who really do not want to use illegal labor but if they want to be competitive against their competition who uses illegal labor, they are forced to use it also.

If only things were that simple. Your anecdotal observation is correct, but isn't the full story.

A lot of the work that illegals do is work for which it is virtually impossible to find legal American workers at any wage (within reason). And the Americans that *are* willing to do the work are nowhere near as reliable, efficient, skilled or enthusiastic as the illegals.

The solution to America's labor needs, especially seasonal labor needs, is to allow the needed labourers to come over, ensure they get to work under safe conditions, are paid a reasonable wage (not necessarily full American minimum wage) and have access to health care if they are injured in the course of their work. Meanwhile, American workers willing (and able!) to do the work should be given priority hiring at full market wage. Consumers would also have to be willing to pay a little more at the supermarket. Employers have to be willing to settle for lower profits and greater regulation and oversight that would be necessary to ensure everybody's getting a fair deal and sticking to the rules.

Such nuanced and constructive approaches don't lend themselves to nifty political soundbites, don't serve corporate interests and, crucially, don't help get lazy, corporate-dick-sucking politicians elected. Much easier for these politicians to pander to racist and fearful Americans by feeding their irrational hate/anger/fear and offer vacuous soundbites and unrealistic but simple-sounding "solutions", then get into office and proceed to do nothing.

T

" Consumers would also have to be willing to pay a little more at the supermarket. Employers have to be willing to settle for lower profits and greater regulation and oversight that would be necessary to ensure everybody's getting a fair deal and sticking to the rules."

Easy for somebody to say that lives in England and doesn't have to pay "a little more at the supermarket" or for an employer to "settle for lower profits".

[Ulysses G.]

Trump has never explained how he would deport 11 million illegals.

We put a man on the moon. I'm sure we can get rid of the majority of the illegal aliens. Start with enforcing E-Verify strictly. Many will leave on their own, if they can not work and others will not keep coming.

[up-country_sinclair]

Trump has never explained how he would deport 11 million illegals.

We put a man on the moon. I'm sure we can get rid of the majority of the illegal aliens. Start with enforcing E-Verify strictly. Many will leave on their own, if they can not work and others will not keep coming.

You seem to agree with Trump on many issues, including his immigration proposals.

Do you think he should be the Republican nominee for president in 2016? Yes or no?

[Thakkar]

If there was really any desire to prevent undocumented workers from coming one would simply need to eliminate the jobs. To do that one would have to prosecute the employers/exploiters of said undocumented workers. Throw a few landscape contractors or the CEO of a meat packing plant behind bars and see what happens. There would be no need for walls, because without the jobs, few would come.

Is any candidate seriously proposing his?

what you say is true,

There are many contractors out there who really do not want to use illegal labor but if they want to be competitive against their competition who uses illegal labor, they are forced to use it also.

If only things were that simple. Your anecdotal observation is correct, but isn't the full story.

A lot of the work that illegals do is work for which it is virtually impossible to find legal American workers at any wage (within reason). And the Americans that *are* willing to do the work are nowhere near as reliable, efficient, skilled or enthusiastic as the illegals.

The solution to America's labor needs, especially seasonal labor needs, is to allow the needed labourers to come over, ensure they get to work under safe conditions, are paid a reasonable wage (not necessarily full American minimum wage) and have access to health care if they are injured in the course of their work. Meanwhile, American workers willing (and able!) to do the work should be given priority hiring at full market wage. Consumers would also have to be willing to pay a little more at the supermarket. Employers have to be willing to settle for lower profits and greater regulation and oversight that would be necessary to ensure everybody's getting a fair deal and sticking to the rules.

Such nuanced and constructive approaches don't lend themselves to nifty political soundbites, don't serve corporate interests and, crucially, don't help get lazy, corporate-dick-sucking politicians elected. Much easier for these politicians to pander to racist and fearful Americans by feeding their irrational hate/anger/fear and offer vacuous soundbites and unrealistic but simple-sounding "solutions", then get into office and proceed to do nothing.

T

" Consumers would also have to be willing to pay a little more at the supermarket. Employers have to be willing to settle for lower profits and greater regulation and oversight that would be necessary to ensure everybody's getting a fair deal and sticking to the rules."

Easy for somebody to say that lives in England and doesn't have to pay "a little more at the supermarket" or for an employer to "settle for lower profits".

Indeed, from no matter where I'm sitting, it's easy to say. Just as easy as it is to say:

"We'll round 'em all up!"

"We'll build a wall!"

(But, but it'll have to be 2,000 miles long..."Shhh! Let's not get bogged down by details")

(But the Mexicans have ladders. "We have anti-ladder technology. We'll buy it from the Chinese, get the Mexicans to pay for it and *still* avoid exporting jobs to China. Am I a genius, or what?")

(But how will we get the Mexicans to pay for it all? "Don't worry your pretty little head about it." Gee thanks, I love politicians with simple solutions and assurances that I don't have to pay or think).

The proposals are unadulterated nonsense. But even if they were to be implemented (haha, bear with me) and even if they worked (I said, bear with me), the cost would be way more than the approach I've suggested. The American public will have to pay one way or another. Further more, the acute labor shortage in specific industries will remain unresolved--which also would lead to higher prices and lower profits.

But as long as there is a market of idiots buying this nonsense, the worst politicians will continue to flog it. I know it's too much to ask that they eat some fruit from the tree of knowledge, but could they at least stop eating the turd sandwiches from the cesspool of ignorance?

T