Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[catsanddogs]

9:54 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-backpackers-murdered-thailand-police-4266308

As we reported earlier, Thai police continue to quiz three Burmese suspects in connection with the murder.

Thai television is reporting that an iPhone and blood-soaked jeans were found in the house of one of the suspects.

However, this has not been confirmed.

10:11 am

Another still shows an iPhone believed to have been found in one of a suspect's home.

It's understood this belongs to one of the victims.

The man - described police as of Asian appearance - first appears running past a CCTV camera near the beach at 3.44am.

He is again filmed going past the camera in the same direction, but walking, at 4.48am.

He is wearing shorts, a vest and appears to be walking barefoot.

A vest? Running man images that have been released show the man topless. Is there some other CCTV of him wearing a vest that has not been released maybe?

[Nigeone]

some of the wounds on Davids body are consistant with a short sharp weapon, it is very distinct, I have looked at shark bites on the net and the wounds are very similar consistant with a one tooth shark, no such a thing obviously unless....................................

Just passing my opinion which is more than the police investigating have done, in fact it seems to have been totally ignored

Maybe just maybe,it just didn't fit the agenda they had dreamt up! Too late to change mid course ! I feel sure the fact there's a expert forensic witness for the defense I feel could be the key. I agree those injuries could never ever come from a hoe! In fact there has to be another murder weapon as David never died from been hit with the hoe for sure. But we've been there before so,many times haven't we. Bring on the defense and I feel we will get some interesting points being put forward...

David died from Drowning. He was alive even though he was wounded. He was drowned..

And if anyone had the unfortunate look at Hannah's "wounds" they were not made with a little knife. They were, I still can't unsee... horrific. that girl went through hell and back. I just hope they get the bastards that did that to her, and David.

I never accessed the pics and as long as I live I never will..the response from those that did view them was enough for me. I would rather see Hannah for the beautiful girl she was before her brutal killing. I would however also like to hear the UK coroner report or the expert forensic witness comment on both of their wounds and deaths as there's a few stories been floating around as cause etc..

[Nigeone]

9:54 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-backpackers-murdered-thailand-police-4266308

As we reported earlier, Thai police continue to quiz three Burmese suspects in connection with the murder.

Thai television is reporting that an iPhone and blood-soaked jeans were found in the house of one of the suspects.

However, this has not been confirmed.

10:11 am

Another still shows an iPhone believed to have been found in one of a suspect's home.

It's understood this belongs to one of the victims.

12:18 pm

A vest? Running man images that have been released show the man topless. Is there some other CCTV of him wearing a vest that has not been released maybe?

Blood soaked jeans found hasn't come out in court either has it! So many stories came out before the trial but nothing been heard off in the trial itself. Strange. Hard to know what if anything to believe from the prosecutor.

[catsanddogs]

C&D...I think they are referring to the two unknown tourists seen walking ahead of the running man who they first identified as Hannah and David.

Yes, am aware of that RTP blunder that the world realised before them Eirene, but I'm referring to the statement that running man was also 'seen leaving the same party' as Hannah and David. So where is the footage of this, or was it that a witness saw him leaving the party? If so who and where is the witness?

[catsanddogs]

9:54 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-backpackers-murdered-thailand-police-4266308

As we reported earlier, Thai police continue to quiz three Burmese suspects in connection with the murder.

Thai television is reporting that an iPhone and blood-soaked jeans were found in the house of one of the suspects.

However, this has not been confirmed.

10:11 am

Another still shows an iPhone believed to have been found in one of a suspect's home.

It's understood this belongs to one of the victims.

A vest? Running man images that have been released show the man topless. Is there some other CCTV of him wearing a vest that has not been released maybe?

Blood soaked jeans found hasn't come out in court either has it! So many stories came out before the trial but nothing been heard off in the trial itself. Strange. Hard to know what if anything to believe from the prosecutor.

Yes, there were the blood soaked jeans that were found in Ware's luggage (I think it was his) that turned out not to be blood and then items of clothes found at the lodgings of the B2 that had blood on them. No bloody clothes as evidence in court as far as I'm aware. Now there's a surprise.

[Eirene]

C&D - OIC what you mean. Initially there were a number of reports that there was a beach party with about fifty people IIRC. I think that they just assumed that as he was right behind them that they were at the same party. I noticed that the Mirror article was updated on Oct. 3 yet they failed to correct the misinformation regarding that couple.

[catsanddogs]

POLICE in Thailand reveal how they caught two men accused of murdering UK backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on the holiday island ofKoh Tao.

National police chief Somyot Pumpanmuang said suspect Zaw Rim, 21, took Miller’s mobile phone from his dead body.

He wanted to use the phone for his own use but when he discovered the device could not be used in Thailand, he smashed and discarded it in his home, the Bangkok Post reported.

Police Colonel Prachum Ruangthong, superintendent of the Koh Phangan police station, said the device, a black iPhone 4, was taken from the shorts pocket of Miller, 24.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/zaw-rim-win-murdered-koh-tao-backpackers-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/story-fnizu68q-1227081481772

Edited September 1, 2015 by metisdead

[Eirene]

I think that the jeans could have been stained from the iron ore mines in Australia...just a guess.

[catsanddogs]

"There was also a mobile, a guitar and a motorcycle used to do the crime. The mobile phone was the mobile of the victim which the suspects took it to destroy. Police were able to confiscate these." (Thai National police chief Somyot Poompanmoung ) http://news.sky.com/story/1346631/thai-murders-suspects-stage-reconstruction

I hope the RTP had that motorcycle in their shopping trolly then!

Edited August 31, 2015 by catsanddogs

[catsanddogs]

Police believe the pair were attacked with a blood-stained hoe found with their clothes and suspect Miss Witheridge had been raped.

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/15/two-british-tourists-found-dead-with-gruesome-head-wounds-on-thai-beach-4869176/#ixzz3kQfPJ91A

That's another first for me. Hoe was found with their clothes?

[Nigeone]

Police believe the pair were attacked with a blood-stained hoe found with their clothes and suspect Miss Witheridge had been raped.

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/15/two-british-tourists-found-dead-with-gruesome-head-wounds-on-thai-beach-4869176/#ixzz3kQfPJ91A

That's another first for me. Hoe was found with their clothes?

Was the hoe found with the scattered clothes or after they had been neatly piled for the pics and the statement that indicted they had been found neatly stacked like that?!

[BritTim]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-backpackers-murdered-thailand-police-4266308

SUNDAY PM - Hannah arrives at Koh Tao with around 50 other western travellers and heads for Sairee beach. She meets David at a beachside party

MONDAY 1AM - Hannah and David are seen leaving the bar and heading towards Hat Sai Ri beach, just 100 metres away

MONDAY 5AM - A man is seen leaving the same party and is caught acting suspiciously on CCTV. He is walking back and forth outside a business premises near the beach

This is the first time I have read any report that says 'A man is seen leaving the same party and is caught acting suspiciously on CCTV...'

I assume this is 'running Asian man'. Why wasn't CCTV footage released of this man 'leaving the same party'?

Worthy of looking at, together with a thousand other things, but I would not read too much into stuff like this from a single media source. This is especially true as the reported 1:00 AM sighting of Hannah and David leaving the bar is known to be incorrect/ David had not even arrived at that point.

[Madaussie]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-backpackers-murdered-thailand-police-4266308

SUNDAY PM - Hannah arrives at Koh Tao with around 50 other western travellers and heads for Sairee beach. She meets David at a beachside party

MONDAY 1AM - Hannah and David are seen leaving the bar and heading towards Hat Sai Ri beach, just 100 metres away

MONDAY 5AM - A man is seen leaving the same party and is caught acting suspiciously on CCTV. He is walking back and forth outside a business premises near the beach

This is the first time I have read any report that says 'A man is seen leaving the same party and is caught acting suspiciously on CCTV...'

I assume this is 'running Asian man'. Why wasn't CCTV footage released of this man 'leaving the same party'?

What I find very interesting at 10:11 is the black I-phone belonging to one of the victims. Undamaged.....

[JLCrab]

The question to the friends might be: On the night of September 14-15 did you see any male with the late Ms. Witheridge giving her attention unwanted or otherwise or cause her to endure any aggravation especially as regards sexual advances?

But thanks guys -- I've dealt with about a 10 man tag-team today and now I'm just going to sign off.

Yes what a sensible question to ask. I expect her friends might have replied, "She was young she was good looking and she was blond"

From that reply you can make your own assumptions.

You have done well to deal with a 10 man tag team, and even better today no mention of who was buying jelly donuts and who was buying cream ones.

Enjoy your rest.

Her friends might have also answered to the question Yes or No.

[catsanddogs]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-backpackers-murdered-thailand-police-4266308

SUNDAY PM - Hannah arrives at Koh Tao with around 50 other western travellers and heads for Sairee beach. She meets David at a beachside party

MONDAY 1AM - Hannah and David are seen leaving the bar and heading towards Hat Sai Ri beach, just 100 metres away

MONDAY 5AM - A man is seen leaving the same party and is caught acting suspiciously on CCTV. He is walking back and forth outside a business premises near the beach

This is the first time I have read any report that says 'A man is seen leaving the same party and is caught acting suspiciously on CCTV...'

I assume this is 'running Asian man'. Why wasn't CCTV footage released of this man 'leaving the same party'?

What I find very interesting at 10:11 is the black I-phone belonging to one of the victims. Undamaged.....

PAY-iphone-found-by-Thai-Police.jpg

Have there been any photos published of the 'smashed' phone?

[JLCrab]

< snip >

If I lived on the island and believed in Truth & Justice I would make some arrangement to provide any genuinely compelling information I had that would spring the 2 falsely accused or else I just don't care about Truth & Justice.

Sounds good Crab, but not believable.

< snip 2 >

So how much of the copious amounts that you post is believable?

If you Mr. Boomer ran a tourist attraction on Koh Tao instead on near Chiang Rai and still had your overwhelming pledge to Truth & Justice and that you had first-hand slam-dunk information that the 2 Burmese accused were innocent of all these crimes, would you sit on that info and let the young men be convected because to do otherwise might jeopardize your wall climbing business yet still claim that you are dedicated to Truth & Justice??

Edited August 31, 2015 by JLCrab

[catsanddogs]

http://www.norwichadvertiser24.co.uk/news/owner_of_mobile_phone_linking_burmese_migrant_workers_to_hannah_witheridge_murder_never_established_1_4213643

Defence lawyers at the Koh Tao murder trial believe the UK authorities may never have confirmed who owned a mobile phone, cited by Thai police as linking two Burmese migrant workers to the crimes.

But then again, maybe they did? If the UK police that interviewed friends of the deceased did in fact pass on information to the RTP then it may be possible they also cocked up in another area.

Edited August 31, 2015 by catsanddogs

[IslandLover]

Without a substantial bribe the only logical decision would be innocent.

I would have thought so, but then we are not privy to every bit of evidence that is presented to the Judges.

A lot of evidence seems to have been discredited, and now it seems the only evidence the prosecution has is the phone...

The B2 actually admitted to handling it, but say they found it which is quite plausible, and seems their is actually no proof it was David's... or even if he had it at the time he was murdered.

There is another possibility, and that is that David Miller's phone was found in the room he shared with Chris Ware (as someone has already told me, although there is no proof). Unfortunately only Chris Ware can confirm this and he, like the travelling companions of Hannah, is staying silent. It is certainly a possibility because David went back to his room with Chris Ware sometime after leaving Choppers bar and then went out again to buy cigarettes (according to Chris Ware). We know he went to the AC bar after that. David could well have left his phone in his room. After all, one of Hannah's travelling companions had Hannah's. If this would indeed be true, then it casts serious doubt about the phone found near the accused's lodgings and more importantly, how it got there.

Edited August 31, 2015 by IslandLover

[IslandLover]

Police believe the pair were attacked with a blood-stained hoe found with their clothes and suspect Miss Witheridge had been raped.

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/15/two-british-tourists-found-dead-with-gruesome-head-wounds-on-thai-beach-4869176/#ixzz3kQfPJ91A

That's another first for me. Hoe was found with their clothes?

No, the hoe was found variously under a tree and in an enclosed vegetable garden, both of which are in front of the In Touch resort. The victims' bodies and their clothes were found several metres (it varies from 20 to 60m, depending on which source you believe) further along the beach.

[IslandLover]

I think that the jeans could have been stained from the iron ore mines in Australia...just a guess.

There were some blue jeans allegedly stained with blood, as well as some mobile phones, a gun and a hand grenade (!) found in raids on the lodgings of Burmese migrant workers very early on in the investigation, and well before the B2 were arrested. There are photos of these items in various press reports on the net. These items subsequently appear to have been discounted as part of the investigation into the murders, as well as the Burmese "suspects" in whose possession they were found. In addition a pair of "blood stained" beige trousers was allegedly found in the luggage of David Miller. Again there is a photo of these. The blood stains turned out to be a chemical substance, probably from iron ore, as you say.

Edited August 31, 2015 by IslandLover

[IslandLover]

So sad to see pics of her enjoying her hols. Such a pretty girl.

Heart Breaking... Absolutely Heartbreaking. As well as David who had a great future ahead. He had just been on work placement here in Australia.

A couple of months ago, David was awarded a posthumous First Class Honours degree from Leeds university in his chosen field, which was civil engineering I believe. What a bright future both victims had. Absolutely tragic.

[GOLDBUGGY]

POLICE in Thailand reveal how they caught two men accused of murdering UK backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on the holiday island ofKoh Tao.

National police chief Somyot Pumpanmuang said suspect Zaw Rim, 21, took Miller’s mobile phone from his dead body.

He wanted to use the phone for his own use but when he discovered the device could not be used in Thailand, he smashed and discarded it in his home, the Bangkok Post reported.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/zaw-rim-win-murdered-koh-tao-backpackers-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/story-fnizu68q-1227081481772

Your post on this mobile phone getting destroyed adds clarity to this mystery. It never really seemed logical that a friend who was trusted to hold this mobile phone, would simple smash it in a plastic bag and then discard it, only because it wasn't working in Thailand.

But as your post suggests, if it was one of the accused who destroyed this Mobile Phone, it makes more sense that the friend, who testified he discarded it because he became suspicious of it, would do such a thing.Why would he want a broken Mobile Phone hanging around his place, especially if he may or may not have roommates with the accused. .

[IslandLover]

I would have thought so, but then we are not privy to every bit of evidence that is presented to the Judges.

A lot of evidence seems to have been discredited, and now it seems the only evidence the prosecution has is the phone...

The B2 actually admitted to handling it, but say they found it which is quite plausible, and seems their is actually no proof it was David's... or even if he had it at the time he was murdered.

Maybe someone gave it to them? You know, like a reward, for example, for doing some manual labour, like lifting heavy objects.

There has been so much misinformation (particularly on this thread and especially the last few posts) about this phone that I doubt if anyone remembers exactly what was said and what is actually true.

Whatever the truth about the phone, it is still, at the end of the day, just circumstantial evidence in a trial about rape and murder (it's not a trial about a phone theft). If this is the only solid "damning" evidence the prosecution has, then I can't possibly imagine a conviction based solely on this.

Ah, but one of the charges Wai Phyo faces is the theft of a mobile phone and sunglasses from David Miller. Which reminds me, have said sunglasses been produced as evidence yet?

[IslandLover]

Without a substantial bribe the only logical decision would be innocent.

I would have thought so, but then we are not privy to every bit of evidence that is presented to the Judges.

A lot of evidence seems to have been discredited, and now it seems the only evidence the prosecution has is the phone...

The B2 actually admitted to handling it, but say they found it which is quite plausible, and seems their is actually no proof it was David's... or even if he had it at the time he was murdered.

Maybe someone gave it to them? You know, like a reward, for example, for doing some manual labour, like lifting heavy objects.

Now, what can you possibly mean by "heavy objects"?

[GOLDBUGGY]

Without a substantial bribe the only logical decision would be innocent.

I would have thought so, but then we are not privy to every bit of evidence that is presented to the Judges.

A lot of evidence seems to have been discredited, and now it seems the only evidence the prosecution has is the phone...

The B2 actually admitted to handling it, but say they found it which is quite plausible, and seems their is actually no proof it was David's... or even if he had it at the time he was murdered.

There is another possibility, and that is that David Miller's phone was found in the room he shared with Chris Ware (as someone has already told me, although there is no proof). Unfortunately only Chris Ware can confirm this and he, like the travelling companions of Hannah, is staying silent. It is certainly a possibility because David went back to his room with Chris Ware sometime after leaving Choppers bar and then went out again to buy cigarettes (according to Chris Ware). We know he went to the AC bar after that. David could well have left his phone in his room. After all, one of Hannah's travelling companions had Hannah's. If this would indeed be true, then it casts serious doubt about the phone found near the accused's lodgings and more importantly, how it got there.

You make a very valid point which I would agree with you most times on, except for one little thing that stands out.

As pointed out in a Media Report around October 7th I believe, very early on a Senior Police Officer, "Sorayuth Suthassanachinda" was to have alleged to have reported on Channel 3 News that they knew early on that David Miller's Mobile Phone was missing by talking to David's Family and Friends.

I think we could safely assume from that, since Chris Ware was known to be a close friend of Davids and also his roommate at that time, he would have been asked about his Mobile Phone already. We do know from Media reports that Chris was questioned by police for an injury he had and blood stains from that on his clothes. Seems to me that Chis had plenty of opportunity to tell Police that David's Mobile was in his room, as he had no reason to lie about it.

[Patsycat]

You lot are going OTT about this. Rambling on and and on and on. 73 pages of rambling - most of which is silly.

Leave it for a couple of days, sleep, and then come back. And continue your ramblings.

We all want what is right, but just leave it for a moment and stop arguing over this and that and the other.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Patsycat

[seahorse]

You lot are going OTT about this. Rambling on and and on and on. 73 pages of rambling - most of which is silly.

Leave it for a couple of days, sleep, and then come back. And continue your ramblings.

We all want what is right, but just leave it for a moment and stop arguing over this and that and the other.

If it wasn't too much bother for you to actually read about the topic, you would know that not everybody who posts here wants what is right. That is why there are so many pages.

[boomerangutang]

From Andy Hall's facebook page 5 hours ago.

Today, the whole Koh Tao murder case legal defence team and case translators spent the day inside Koh Samui prison. The whole day was spent preparing case accused Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to give their much awaited testimony to tell the public and the court, in their own words for the first time, what they were doing on 14/15 September 2014 and what happened after their arrest early morning on 2nd October until the present.

The defense witnesses shall begin either late tomorrow or on 2nd Sept for at least 7 days (1/2, 11, 22-25 Sept).

Koh Samui prison authorities as usual kindly provided the defense team with full and free access to Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo in a private area and all other necessities required for the defense team preparation.

Thanks to AH and the defense team for putting in so much effort to trying to get a fair trial for the accused. In the US, it's not common for a defendant to testify in his own defense (OJ didn't) but it does happen sometimes. It seems it happens more often in Thailand. I was in a Thai court and the defendant, a hill triber (shackled wrists and ankles), actually spoke up clearly, and showed no fear of the judges or prosecution. I admired his forthright attitude (tho I didn't know him and haven's seen him before or since that day).

The only words we've heard reported from the defendants spoken in court (contrary to British Justice Green's assertions culled from reports he was given by Brit/Thai authorities) were, "We don't know. We were drunk. We went home and to sleep." ....in response to the Thai judge's question in December arraignment: "If you didn't do the crime, do you know who did?" Incidentally, there have been at least one change of judges since December.

It will be interesting to see whether Wai or Zaw articulate on who may have been involved in the crime that night. They may maintain their "we don't know nuttin'" facade, or they may offer some other details. Even the most staunch RTP echoers admit there had to be more than two small men involved in the

crime.

[boomerangutang]

< snip >

If I lived on the island and believed in Truth & Justice I would make some arrangement to provide any genuinely compelling information I had that would spring the 2 falsely accused or else I just don't care about Truth & Justice.

Sounds good Crab, but not believable.

< snip 2 >

So how much of the copious amounts that you post is believable?

If you Mr. Boomer ran a tourist attraction on Koh Tao instead on near Chiang Rai and still had your overwhelming pledge to Truth & Justice and that you had first-hand slam-dunk information that the 2 Burmese accused were innocent of all these crimes, would you sit on that info and let the young men be convected because to do otherwise might jeopardize your wall climbing business yet still claim that you are dedicated to Truth & Justice??

You can ask me questions, but your don't have to try to bring personal details of my life in to this.

[GOLDBUGGY]

After reading all the posts here I have surprised at what many people are calling evidence, and what they consider is not evidence in a court of law here. I am raising this issue now as I feel there is plenty of misinformation on this subject and hoping there is someone here with greater knowledge on this who can steer us in the right direction once and for all.

If a person was to witness a murder, and then picked the accused out of the Line-up would his Testimony in Court as an Eye Witness not be considered "Evidence" for the Prosecution? That he doesn't need Photographs or Video Tapes to prove what he saw? That all that remains in question now is the Credibility of this Eye Witness and his "Evidence"?

So is it then not up to the Defense to discredit this "Evidence" and his Credibility if they can? To prove he was on drugs or alcohol that night and was not in sound mind. To prove the lighting was too poor to be able to make out the accused face at that distance, or that he wasn't wearing his glasses when he needed them to see this far. Or to prove he had a good reason to lie about his Testimony.

With DNA "Evidence" it is obvious that your credibility lays in your ability to prove the DNA matches from the victim to the accused. I don't want to go into detail with this as it has been covered on other posts here and this is not the issue I am raising now. The same with matching a murder weapon. It is not enough to say this is a the murder weapon just because it is a 22 Caliber Bullet that killed the victim. You would need Ballistics Evidence to prove your credibility for that. For the Hoe, I believe it was alleged to have Hannah's Blood on it, but again I don't want to go into too much detail as this is not the point I am raising either.

My point is that wouldn't it be considered "Evidence" that an Eye Witness Testified in court that he sat through the whole Interrogation but did not see acts of violence, torture, or threats against the accused? Does an Eye Witness Testimony change simply because of his position, such as a high police official, or translator, or an inmate who shared time with the accused, or a doctor?

Credibility would of course have to be considered but if there is no proof that discredits the Eye Witness, like bribes being paid for example, doesn't the benefit of the doubt lie with the Eye Witness?

To be totally honest i am just trying to discover what is considered as "Evidence" here and what is not, as I have read so many different versions here of this.There has also been a lot of Eye Witness Testimony which I am sure soon will be coming from both sides soon. I am not saying who is right or wrong here, and which is a good witness or bad. The Defense will start their case soon and I am waiting for that.

. .