Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[StealthEnergiser]

I keep thinking... Motive and intent, motive and intent.... I think it's pretty obvious that this was more than just a rape gone wrong, this was a premeditated attack carried out by someone who had close to zero fear of ever being caught, because that person knew someone would clean up their mess. If the B2 commited this crime why didn't they just drag both bodies and all the clothes out to sea? And flee the island immediately? The island was never "barricaded" until way after the bodies had been reported. Are we to believe that because of their nationality they're completely clueless as to how police and jail work? I don't buy it.

The reason the attack wasn't interrupted is the only one who tried was over powered and killed.. That, coupled with the fact that any possible witness would have seen a horrible crime carried out by someone of a much higher social class and you can get an idea of why all the Burmese who were initially willing to help have now disapeared. The intimidation factor is huge, the most likely witnesses have no influence or social standing in this country.

The only way I'll ever believe the B2 were involved is if they were ordered by someone else to be an accessory. The DNA is gone, nobody will ever know what really happened that night. However, I am a firm believer in karma, and those who killed Hannah and David will get their karma.. You can visit the temple a million times and pile your merit sky high- this stain will never leave their conscience.

From what I have read that very important hair has been put aside , It looks like hannah held the evidence in her hand .

The hair has been tested and proven results now the question is who own's that hair ?

[StealthEnergiser]

I remember early on in the proceedings, and this flies in the face of "200 out of 300 cameras weren't working" if true, that it was reported Mon refused access to CCTV footage. Does anyone remember this, or have a link?

Here's one cockup link reg. the police not doing their job, not checking (on purpose) important CCTV recordings: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/koh-tao-murder-trail/2003156.html

I'm not too sure what the CCTV at the pier is supposed to contain?, KT pier is a large area when the night boats sit all day, the seatran to samui is to the right side of them, the lomprayah that goes to samui and bangkok is on the left but a separate pier some 20m away from the main pier structure..in between are dive boats….so not sure what they would be expecting to see there other than tourists coming and going, certainly no speed boats would rush someone off the island from there, they would just pull up to the beach…if thats what you're implying with your 'on purpose' comment.

You say your no sure let me tell you frank all cctv is important in a double murder investigation if its in area where people can escape from.

[Rykbanlor]

I remember early on in the proceedings, and this flies in the face of "200 out of 300 cameras weren't working" if true, that it was reported Mon refused access to CCTV footage. Does anyone remember this, or have a link?

Here's one cockup link reg. the police not doing their job, not checking (on purpose) important CCTV recordings: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/koh-tao-murder-trail/2003156.html

I'm not too sure what the CCTV at the pier is supposed to contain?, KT pier is a large area when the night boats sit all day, the seatran to samui is to the right side of them, the lomprayah that goes to samui and bangkok is on the left but a separate pier some 20m away from the main pier structure..in between are dive boats….so not sure what they would be expecting to see there other than tourists coming and going, certainly no speed boats would rush someone off the island from there, they would just pull up to the beach…if thats what you're implying with your 'on purpose' comment.

Sounds like you should have joined the investigation then, nope we don't need to view that cctv because we're not too sure what it would contain!!!! Well looking would actually reveal if it contained anything or not, its worth a peek no? Double murder and all that.

Predictable commentary from a guy who seems to know the layout of the island intimately............

[thailandchilli]

I keep thinking... Motive and intent, motive and intent.... I think it's pretty obvious that this was more than just a rape gone wrong, this was a premeditated attack carried out by someone who had close to zero fear of ever being caught, because that person knew someone would clean up their mess. If the B2 commited this crime why didn't they just drag both bodies and all the clothes out to sea? And flee the island immediately? The island was never "barricaded" until way after the bodies had been reported. Are we to believe that because of their nationality they're completely clueless as to how police and jail work? I don't buy it.

The reason the attack wasn't interrupted is the only one who tried was over powered and killed.. That, coupled with the fact that any possible witness would have seen a horrible crime carried out by someone of a much higher social class and you can get an idea of why all the Burmese who were initially willing to help have now disapeared. The intimidation factor is huge, the most likely witnesses have no influence or social standing in this country.

The only way I'll ever believe the B2 were involved is if they were ordered by someone else to be an accessory. The DNA is gone, nobody will ever know what really happened that night. However, I am a firm believer in karma, and those who killed Hannah and David will get their karma.. You can visit the temple a million times and pile your merit sky high- this stain will never leave their conscience.

From what I have read that very important hair has been put aside , It looks like hannah held the evidence in her hand .

The hair has been tested and proven results now the question is who own's that hair ?

I believe it belongs to an unidentified killer and that killer is still walking around and has the potential to strike again

[Rykbanlor]

Guys with connections on the island might almost be forgiven for wanting to believe what they are being told "is big misunderstanding, we no involved" but deep down inside they must have some little doubts niggling their conscience.

[StealthEnergiser]

I have said this before when the truth comes out about these murders and people have deliberately posted to cover the truth that may be further questioned as to their motives and if anything is behind it.

[smedly]

since the prosecution case has finished all reasonable balanced people have already concluded what the outcome should be, if the 3 judges don't see it that way then I will always be calling foul, as far as I am concerned this trial is over.

IMO - The police/prosecution have not presented anything in this trial that meets the most basic global fundamentals of law justice and human rights.

From Illegal interviews

Retracted confessions

Faulty unverified DNA Evidence that would not stand up to any scrutiny or recognized protocol that I am aware of

Inconsistencies from the police investigation and testimony in court

This list is endless

I have already made up my mind and it is a very sad day indeed and quite honestly a disgrace that someone hasn't stopped this farce a long time ago

[grumpyoldman]

since the prosecution case has finished all reasonable balanced people have already concluded what the outcome should be, if the 3 judges don't see it that way then I will always be calling foul, as far as I am concerned this trial is over.

IMO - The police/prosecution have not presented anything in this trial that meets the most basic global fundamentals of law justice and human rights.

From Illegal interviews

Retracted confessions

Faulty unverified DNA Evidence that would not stand up to any scrutiny or recognized protocol that I am aware of

Inconsistencies from the police investigation and testimony in court

This list is endless

I have already made up my mind and it is a very sad day indeed and quite honestly a disgrace that someone hasn't stopped this farce a long time ago

I agree, but it seems a conviction whether it be right or wrong is more important than catching the actual killers.

[stephenterry]

since the prosecution case has finished all reasonable balanced people have already concluded what the outcome should be, if the 3 judges don't see it that way then I will always be calling foul, as far as I am concerned this trial is over.

IMO - The police/prosecution have not presented anything in this trial that meets the most basic global fundamentals of law justice and human rights.

From Illegal interviews

Retracted confessions

Faulty unverified DNA Evidence that would not stand up to any scrutiny or recognized protocol that I am aware of

Inconsistencies from the police investigation and testimony in court

This list is endless

I have already made up my mind and it is a very sad day indeed and quite honestly a disgrace that someone hasn't stopped this farce a long time ago

I agree, but it seems a conviction whether it be right or wrong is more important than catching the actual killers.

That was the initial stance from high-up to protect Thailand's image as a safe tourist destination. However, when the investigation started to point at powerful people with political clout, the stance changed to put anyone in the frame, preferably non-Thais. Now, thanks in part to social media, it has spiraled out of control, and we're left with this enormous mess of a case that is being patched up by a succession of senior police officers who assert the B2 did it.

The SPOs are probably encouraged to do so by their superiors for the good of Thailand and 'our' people. Wrap it up, and move on.

[thailandchilli]

I know this has been posted before but for any newbies, here's a view from the Thai perspective. English subs are on the vid

[boomerangutang]

If someone owns a business adjacent to a major crime and that person has multiple cctv cameras that would contain, most certainly, evidence that would be instrumental to solving the case. A case which is international in scope and drawing a tremendous amount of attention in a negative way to the country and to the owner of the establishment. How is it possible that warrants are not presented to demand the cctv evidence? And what does it say about the person denying the access to the evidence?

At the very least, you would conclude that something is being hidden. More likely people would conclude something more serious.

Yes, many of us have concluded such things, starting 11 months ago. Many things point to intentional skewing of..., and not looking at/for crucial evidence. Not looking for bloody clothes, not searching Mon's body or room (nor those of his tough-guy buddies), no looking at potentially crucial CCTV, giving no interest in phone activity, not looking at recent histories of people who hang out at AC and In Touch bars.

In contrast, here's something top cops are probably looking at: schedules of flights leaving Thailand - ditto for Mon and Nomsod,

I'm not too sure what the CCTV at the pier is supposed to contain?, KT pier is a large area when the night boats sit all day, the seatran to samui is to the right side of them, the lomprayah that goes to samui and bangkok is on the left but a separate pier some 20m away from the main pier structure..in between are dive boats….so not sure what they would be expecting to see there other than tourists coming and going, certainly no speed boats would rush someone off the island from there, they would just pull up to the beach…if thats what you're implying with your 'on purpose' comment.

That could be the Naive-Blinkered Post of the Day, though there's some stiff competition.

Let's see if I get what you're trying to say: Something about 'ordinarily, certain piers have activity with certain types of boats' .....so fast boats piloted by friends of Mon couldn't be using any of those piers. Additionally, any CCTV footage of any of those piers or nearby beach areas are not worth bothering to look at, because they probably don't harbor (pun intended) any clues.

If the night watchman who caught Nixon's burglars breaking in to the Watergate apartments in Wash.D.C. was a Thai cop, here would be his thoughts that night:

>>> oh my, there's a credit card lodged in the security door's mechanism. That's weird. The card is ruined. I better take it out and throw it away. Time for an energy drink.

OR

>>> Maybe somebody put the card there to keep the door from locking? Maybe I should search the building because that's part of my job description. Naw, it's probably nothing. I'll go and smoke a cig.

OR

>>> if he had found the burglers: thinking, 'Uh Oh, they may have guns, they look kinda mean. I think one of 'em is connected to a politician.' Upon being seen: "Oh Hi Guys. No, don't mind me. I'm nobody. I'm just about to go downstairs and I'll forget everything and everyone I see pilfering this office. Bye, take care. "

[StealthEnergiser]

If someone owns a business adjacent to a major crime and that person has multiple cctv cameras that would contain, most certainly, evidence that would be instrumental to solving the case. A case which is international in scope and drawing a tremendous amount of attention in a negative way to the country and to the owner of the establishment. How is it possible that warrants are not presented to demand the cctv evidence? And what does it say about the person denying the access to the evidence?

At the very least, you would conclude that something is being hidden. More likely people would conclude something more serious.

Yes, many of us have concluded such things, starting 11 months ago. Many things point to intentional skewing of..., and not looking at/for crucial evidence. Not looking for bloody clothes, not searching Mon's body or room (nor those of his tough-guy buddies), no looking at potentially crucial CCTV, giving no interest in phone activity, not looking at recent histories of people who hang out at AC and In Touch bars.

In contrast, here's something top cops are probably looking at: schedules of flights leaving Thailand - ditto for Mon and Nomsod,

I'm not too sure what the CCTV at the pier is supposed to contain?, KT pier is a large area when the night boats sit all day, the seatran to samui is to the right side of them, the lomprayah that goes to samui and bangkok is on the left but a separate pier some 20m away from the main pier structure..in between are dive boats….so not sure what they would be expecting to see there other than tourists coming and going, certainly no speed boats would rush someone off the island from there, they would just pull up to the beach…if thats what you're implying with your 'on purpose' comment.

That could be the Naive-Blinkered Post of the Day, though there's some stiff competition.

Let's see if I get what you're trying to say: Something about 'ordinarily, certain piers have activity with certain types of boats' .....so fast boats piloted by friends of Mon couldn't be using any of those piers. Additionally, any CCTV footage of any of those piers or nearby beach areas are not worth bothering to look at, because they probably don't harbor (pun intended) any clues.

If the night watchman who caught Nixon's burglars breaking in to the Watergate apartments in Wash.D.C. was a Thai cop, here would be his thoughts that night:

>>> oh my, there's a credit card lodged in the security door's mechanism. That's weird. The card is ruined. I better take it out and throw it away. Time for an energy drink.

OR

>>> Maybe somebody put the card there to keep the door from locking? Maybe I should search the building because that's part of my job description. Naw, it's probably nothing. I'll go and smoke a cig.

OR

>>> if he had found the burglers: thinking, 'Uh Oh, they may have guns, they look kinda mean. I think one of 'em is connected to a politician.' Upon being seen: "Oh Hi Guys. No, don't mind me. I'm nobody. I'm just about to go downstairs and I'll forget everything and everyone I see pilfering this office. Bye, take care. "

He won your award a few days ago also when he said the hoe had not been moved.

[KunMatt]

Other are now picking it up, surprised it is not in the news section as I think a lot of people are interested in this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11838501/Suspect-in-British-backpacker-murder-trial-describes-police-torture.html

sky news

http://news.sky.com/story/1545513/backpacker-murder-suspect-tells-of-torture

The Daily Mail though I don't know if you can open this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3219592/Bar-worker-claims-admitted-murdering-two-British-backpackers-tortured-police-tied-plastic-bags-head-collapsed.html

In the news for all the wrong reasons again

This case, is now getting little or no coverage from English language news sources within Thailand, and zilch from Thai language sources as far as I can tell. I cannot believe that it is because folks here in Thailand have lost interest in it.

Correct, the Daily Mail is blocked in Thailand.

Thais lost all interest and don't care about this case any more because it is old news.

Sad but true.

[Rykbanlor]

Other are now picking it up, surprised it is not in the news section as I think a lot of people are interested in this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11838501/Suspect-in-British-backpacker-murder-trial-describes-police-torture.html

sky news

http://news.sky.com/story/1545513/backpacker-murder-suspect-tells-of-torture

The Daily Mail though I don't know if you can open this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3219592/Bar-worker-claims-admitted-murdering-two-British-backpackers-tortured-police-tied-plastic-bags-head-collapsed.html

In the news for all the wrong reasons again

This case, is now getting little or no coverage from English language news sources within Thailand, and zilch from Thai language sources as far as I can tell. I cannot believe that it is because folks here in Thailand have lost interest in it.

Correct, the Daily Mail is blocked in Thailand.

Thais lost all interest and don't care about this case any more because it is old news.

Sad but true.

And because they are desensitized to it. I have asked Thai friends over the last year, and the general consensus is - yep, B2 are scapegoats, but what can I do about it? This happens all the time in Thailand.

SOme of our shill friends will even try to discredit this kind of statement, and they wil say, ah, it's only hearsay, but anyone with half a brain and a browser won't find it too hard to dig up hard evidence of the RTP track record.

I feel for enlightened Thai people who have to see their country in such a light.

[StealthEnergiser]

I was just reading a old news report where it said blonde hairs found on the iPhone were different to the hair in her hand.

It also talks about two women being mugged in the exact same spot the night before.

if anyone hasn't read it just google "Police all at sea in island murder probe"

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@AbbottKingsley @SZarifi @Reaproy @KentBKK @HugoSwire Thai government shld ensure Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo torture allegation carefully investigated

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@abroadwithalec court already seen medical reports/heard prosecution witness testimony Zaw Lin's chest was bruised and painful after arrest

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@abroadwithalec important was prosecution's own witness who was cellmate of accused and testified Zaw Lin in real pain on arrival in prison

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@abroadwithalec both told me many times they felt certain if they didn't confess as police demanded they would disappear/be viciously killed

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@Reaproy I submitted written complaint against the commissioner but NHRC rejected my complaint on basis I had no standing as injured party

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@Reaproy at beginning NHRC went to prison, met with accused for 1 hour and issued public statement they had confessed. Absurd behavior.

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@AbbottKingsley @SZarifi @Reaproy @KentBKK @HugoSwire yesterday hearing observed by independent ICJ experts who demanding torture enquiry 2

[StealthEnergiser]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@Chrissiewrite koh tao murder case recommences with expert pathology witness on 11th Sept at Koh Samui also

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@abroadwithalec court already seen medical reports/heard prosecution witness testimony Zaw Lin's chest was bruised and painful after arrest

[Basil B]

If someone owns a business adjacent to a major crime and that person has multiple cctv cameras that would contain, most certainly, evidence that would be instrumental to solving the case. A case which is international in scope and drawing a tremendous amount of attention in a negative way to the country and to the owner of the establishment. How is it possible that warrants are not presented to demand the cctv evidence? And what does it say about the person denying the access to the evidence?

At the very least, you would conclude that something is being hidden. More likely people would conclude something more serious.

It should be a criminal offence to obstruct a criminal investigation by withholding or knowingly destroy evidence.

[SOTIRIOS]

....if the court is as biased then no hope for justice whatsoever.....ever.....

[Madaussie]

What i don't understand is that The police pathologist who carried out the autopsy said in July that the investigation had set the evidence aside because of the inconclusive test result.

If she has tested that wouldn't the results be in the system now and they just need a match.

I don't understand why she is saying inconclusive if she knows the DNA does not match Hannah / David or the B2.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

"I don't understand why she is saying inconclusive if she knows the DNA does not match Hannah / David or the B2."

If the results of the analysis would had been a match with one of those people then they wouldn't be inconclusive, would they?

inconclusive

not leading to a firm conclusion or result; not ending doubt or dispute.

"three years of inconclusive negotiations"

synonyms: indecisive, proving nothing, resolving nothing, leaving matters open

[catsanddogs]

Also from BKK post September 30th -

Col. Chaisak said Police had narrowed their search down to males at least 174cm tall.

And then they widened it again???

B2 are not even close to 174cm, they are not even 170cm tall, how did that change???

174cm - more likely the height of westerners. What happened to .....

Police say they are looking for three westerners who were seen playing a guitar near the scene on Koh Tao's Sairee beach.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/19/thailand-murders-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-police

[Rykbanlor]

Also from BKK post September 30th -

Col. Chaisak said Police had narrowed their search down to males at least 174cm tall.

And then they widened it again???

B2 are not even close to 174cm, they are not even 170cm tall, how did that change???

174cm - more likely the height of westerners. What happened to .....

Police say they are looking for three westerners who were seen playing a guitar near the scene on Koh Tao's Sairee beach.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/19/thailand-murders-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-police

I reckon I could guess the name of one o them.....

[Madaussie]

The fact that Mon claimed to be the running man is already highly suspicious, because, whoever you may think it was, it most obviously wasn;t him, so why would he claim it was him? Was he trying to protect a couple of strangers?

These are questions the shills just ignore because they can't spin it. Or they will say - bad reporting, lost in translation.

"The fact that Mon claimed to be the running man" your fact is not a fact, it's one more of a long list of unwarranted assumptions made by armchair detectives.

Perhaps people should stop derailing a thread about the real court case into their whodunit games, again.

No, it was widely reported, but that answer I expected from you. No I will not cite any sources for you, feel free to accuse me of not backing up my posts with facts, but I have nothing to prove to you, good day!

Well, I'll do it for you then, this is where that particular nugget of misinformation originated:

"Police have confirmed that Montriwat is the man appeared in the CCTV video footage near the scene and they still did not rule out a possible connection."

Of course the misinformation part comes exclusively from people that took "the CCTV video footage" to mean what they dubbed The "Running Man" footage, the CCTV footage could be from any other number of cameras, at any other time; therefore the verdict of unwarranted assumption, therefore not a "fact".

If you actually have an interest justice you shouldn't be so sloppy about facts, because that's how innocent people end up paying for things they didn't do.

.

Do you think as Mon went on TV and claimed Sean McAnna was seen washing blood of him the police should re interview both of them as its substantial evidence. It would prove sean is a liar. should they put a warrant out on Interpol for Sean McAnna AKA Albain.

Because I think they should. I don't know who done this crime just as much as you don't. I would like to find out who did. Would you.? You poke and prod the other posters but we see little positive thoughts from your comments so here is a chance to join the happy band of people who want to know the truth.

[Madaussie]

Just wondering, if I don't get 5 or 6 likes as predicted am I entitled to torture those out of some people since as all others know this is well established tradition in Thailand, isn't it?

The Kritsuda case of last year comes to mind. The poor girl was tortured by the military regime as all but me knew and there was the global worrying upon she had disappeared for several weeks.

Now, a year has passed and there is nothing left but the silence of the lambs. She has gone lost now obviously forever but no one appears to give a hoot anymore despite all the previous knowledge. This is indeed kind of puzzling. Where has all the knowledge gone?

In any case the allegations of torture are neither here or there in respect of whether they are innocent or not. If they were tortured that doesn't change the reality of what happened before it, if the physical evidence proves their guilt then the confessions or "confessions" are largely irrelevant, which I know it's going to rattle some people but it is what the defenders of Wai Phyo and Zaw Lin have been saying all along, isn't it?

I, for one, I'm more interested in finding out the truth about the murders first.

Personally I have no problem with torture in certain circumstances for example :

Man is found with10kg of drugs on his way to Koh Tao to do a delivery for all the druggies residing there. They have him bang to rights and torture him to get the names of the supplier he is working for and the receiver who he has to deliver to, and then perhaps get the receiver to reveal who he supplies on the island so they can round the rest of the junkies up and clean the island for example . That's fine with me as he is already in it upto his neck.

Rounding up a group of men and torturing them until a couple cant take it any more. the weakest is well. despicable cruel I could go on and on. So it is relevant. You obviously haven't been tortured so you cant comment on the merits of it.

[Madaussie]

I have said this before when the truth comes out about these murders and people have deliberately posted to cover the truth that may be further questioned as to their motives and if anything is behind it.

Karma is a wonderful thing. It catches up with people when the least expect it. No doubt its hanging in the shadows biding its time I am sure. Probably looks like a 4x2 with David's and Hannah's name written on it.

[PaPiPuPePo]

If I was thay guy on the picture posing ,I would be quite upset actually having to deal with social media gossip .

Yes he could be a bad guy , but maybe just a normal guy, looking tough and posing on pictures.

It will only lead to endless speculations until someone actually can dig up som "dirt" on this guy.

Correct Balo. the B2 conspiracy theorists here have named and shamed so many people is actually quite embarrassing. To be truthfully, at the end of the day, what they say actually makes to difference, no one really cares what they write, there is a bigger picture and they are 0.00001% of this, i.e irrelevant. They think they are making a contribution but in reality nothing, zero, ziltch.

Oh, here we go again with the "conspiracy theorists" tag which has NO basis in fact.

Harry H, aka guy who just joined a month ago only to post on KT threads saying the exact same things as an earlier member who was widely ridiculed for his posts, now being parroted by you Harry H. Since you're "Son of Conspiracy-Theory" guy who never defended the completely inaccurate use of this word, which is not being used as a descriptor anyway, but as a branding tool to discredit those you and he disagree with, I challenge you to show what "conspiracy" you say some people are theorising about.

For the benefit of those who may not be clear on this point: there has been ample discussion, a lot of evidence, and persuasive arguments formed based on it that the investigation of this murder and arrest/trial of the two Burmese guys is very flawed, to the point in the opinion of many that it is a travesty of justice.

No conspiracy among a group of conspirators has EVER been theorised about. Suggesting that power and/or money can and perhaps in this case has affected the investigation/RTP behaviour (through bribes for ex.) is NOT creating a conspiracy theory.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just jumped on this wagon the other guy left in a rhetorical rut without thinking it through. I'll also assume that since you write coherent sentences you have the brainpower to understand the validity of what I wrote above and will therefor either prove me wrong and defend the use of this term, or stop using it. What's it gonna be?