China cuts interest rates again to spur economic growth

[Naam]

I have pointed out the line of defense the United States can use at any time against anyone is that POTUS can by law freeze US Treasury Department instruments, T-Bills in particular.

POTUS can freeze Treasuries to affect any purchaser, any time, under any circumstance, for any period of time, for any reason. I'd also pointed out moreover, the Fed possesses the T-Bills the CCP Boyz have purchased. The Boyz do not possess the Treasury bonds or other instruments they have purchased. The Boyz get a note of purchase instead, while the T-Bills and other instruments they have purchased are in US custody at the Fed's Foreign Account Holdings in its New York bank.

POTUS is not required to freeze Treasuries, rather, he has the authority and can use it against anyone at any time for any reason for any duration.

The CCP Boyz in Beijing know this and they know it well. Putin in March last year moved $130 billion of T-Bills to Russia because he thought it was going to strengthen and improve his economic and financial position..

this is getting better day by day. "POTUS can freeze" and "the FED possesses the UST the boyz have purchased".

no need to look for any cartoons to have a good laugh

the only thing missing is what an American friend of mine (a real redneck) said several years ago. when i drew his attention to the U.S. staggering debt he commented "if worse comes to worst, we have more nukes than the others."

[Publicus]

I have pointed out the line of defense the United States can use at any time against anyone is that POTUS can by law freeze US Treasury Department instruments, T-Bills in particular.

POTUS can freeze Treasuries to affect any purchaser, any time, under any circumstance, for any period of time, for any reason. I'd also pointed out moreover, the Fed possesses the T-Bills the CCP Boyz have purchased. The Boyz do not possess the Treasury bonds or other instruments they have purchased. The Boyz get a note of purchase instead, while the T-Bills and other instruments they have purchased are in US custody at the Fed's Foreign Account Holdings in its New York bank.

POTUS is not required to freeze Treasuries, rather, he has the authority and can use it against anyone at any time for any reason for any duration.

The CCP Boyz in Beijing know this and they know it well. Putin in March last year moved $130 billion of T-Bills to Russia because he thought it was going to strengthen and improve his economic and financial position..

this is getting better day by day. "POTUS can freeze" and "the FED possesses the UST the boyz have purchased".

no need to look for any cartoons to have a good laugh

the only thing missing is what an American friend of mine (a real redneck) said several years ago. when i drew his attention to the U.S. staggering debt he commented "if worse comes to worst, we have more nukes than the others."

No point in denial because it causes others to dismiss those who must deny rather than face facts and reality. The CCP Boyz in Beijing would be wise not to begin an economic war with the United States because no one is better at it than the US Treasury. Freezing assets back and forth of corporations, persons, government owned enterprises, government owned bonds and the like makes the CCP Boyz sure fired guaranteed losers. It will get messy but then the loser will get cleaned out up.

Your redneck friend btw sounds like a master redneck and anyone who carries such a quote away with him to use and cite it would be honoring a fool. Invite your master redneck friend to post to the internet if he isn't posting someplace already. Maybe he can run for president if some rednecks and fools aren't doing it now. It's clear now too that the thread has it's own clown car of global economics experts careening around in it and honking away.

[Publicus]

What part of this don't you understand?:

"U.S. goods and private services trade with China totaled $579 billion in 2012 (latest data available). Exports (from the US to China) totaled $141 billion; Imports (from China) totaled $439 billion. The U.S. goods and services trade deficit with China was $298 billion in 2012. Apr 4, 2014." LINK

The US has a GDP of $18 trillion. Just what part of the relatively tiny sum of a $298 billion trade deficit with China is such a big deal to you? What is it about China's manufacturing going to the US that makes you swoon?

Manufacturing within the US accounts for 12% of US GDP and the average (US blue collar) worker in this segment makes about $70,000 per year. Link How much does the average Chinese manufacturing worker earn by comparison?

China is the Beotch of the US^TM, providing cheap labor to manufacture a tiny part of what enters the US economy, and US companies such as well known clothing and tech retailers actually make the big bucks on the US retail end.

Where is your head in all of this?

On what planet is a 298 billion dollar trade deficit with one country considered small ? Not on the planet where I reside.

China is the US's biggest legitimate creditor. (lets just pretend that its not a ponzi for a minute) Now remove all of that credit and tell me with a straight face that the US won't be effected. You keep looking at raw trade data. Look at the current account. The more bonds China sells, the higher interest rates will go. Rising interest rates on external debt makes the current account deficit go up even if the trade deficit is closing.

Do you think the Fed can take up China's slack ? So much for rate rises in September eh. That is called QE 4

You changed the subject again. What part of the minuscule trade deficit with China compared to the US manufacturing numbers and GDP makes you so awe stricken with China?

Huh?

You have no clue about holders of US debt. You are showing only part of external debt. Your numbers don't add up to the known $18 tril or so - see? Entities in the US including myself own most of the US debt. US trust funds, retirement funds, private holders, banks... Most of the US debt is internal.

China holds 1.3 tril. The debt is 18 tril. That means that China holds only about 7.7% of the US debt.

What is it about you that is so overwhelmed with China when the numbers don't add up to your lofty position? Net imports from China are a minuscule portion of the US GDP and China in its Forex is reported to hold about 7.7% of US debt but it's in a massive liquidity crunch.

"Do you think the Fed can take up China's slack ? So much for rate rises in September eh. That is called QE 4."

Are you dreaming? China can't push those bonds back on the Fed until their due date!!! It's the US Fed that has the option of taking them back and ruining China's foreign trade reserves in dollars!!!!!

Your unsupportable positions are getting old. Really old.

I didn't change the subject. Now you want to try and complicate it and bring % of GDP and try and white wash it with that. And it ain't washing. Just because you say that the China/US trade imbalance is minuscule does not make it true.

<<snip>>

From Mapi

U.S. Bilateral Trade in Manufactures

Table 4 presents U.S. bilateral trade in manufactures for the first half of 2015 for 10 major trading partners, who together accounted for 100% of the $301 billion global deficit. The overriding deficit picture centers on Asia. The $180 billion deficit with China is by far the largest, accounting for 60% of the global deficit, and the three other Asians listed—Japan, South Korea, and India—bring the share of the global deficit to 83%. U.S. manufactured imports from China were 5.5 times larger than U.S. exports to China, and imports from the other three Asians were 2.4 times larger than U.S. exports to them.

Although global trade in manufactures is growing at a much slower pace in 2015, the U.S. and Chinese trade imbalances continue to surge at high, double-digit rates. The U.S. $48 billion deficit increase in the first half of the year equates to a loss of 300,000 trade-related American manufacturing jobs, and the deficit is on track for a loss of 500,000 or more jobs for the calendar year. This is the sixth consecutive year of soaring trade deficits and very large job losses, which from 2009 to 2015 will total 2.5 million, or 25% of the sector labor force. From 2009 to 2014, the U.S. trade deficit in manufactures doubled to $550 billion, while the Chinese surplus doubled to $1 trillion and the EU surplus doubled to $500 billion. And based on the first half of the year, these trade imbalances are headed toward even faster growth in 2015.

This imbalance favorable to China is even more striking in the competitive performance among the industries. The Chinese lead is widest for the three IT industries, listed 5 through 7, where Chinese exports of $354 billion were 3.4 times larger than the $105 billion U.S. exports. And again the trade balances are even more disturbing, with a $138 billion Chinese surplus in contrast with a $102 billion U.S. deficit. The three machinery sectors, listed 2 through 4, show largely balanced exports—$90 billion for China and $85 billion for the United States—but a $37 billion Chinese surplus versus a $21 billion U.S. deficit.

The largest U.S. export leads are for road vehicles, reflecting the highly trade-integrated North American automotive sector, although globally the United States is in large deficit, and other transport equipment, thanks largely to Boeing. The United States also has a large export lead for medical and pharmaceutical products, although again combined with a large deficit, and a small lead for professional and scientific instruments, where China, for once, is the deficit country.

Zzzzzzzzz

The CCP China is experiencing a perfect storm of economic and financial crashes and collapses and some drone is buzzing on posting detailed charts and data that have nothing to do with anything significant, substantial or immediate.

There are too many serious problems in the CCP economy and financial systems occurring simultaneously for the CCP Boyz to handle even one of 'em. Until all the crashing currently going on, the CCP Boyz had been able to reasonably manage one crisis here, another nosedive there, a bubble bursting somewhere else, all at different times and in different ways that different CCPs could be deployed to combat.

The Boyz had in fact been managing to contain and restrict the bursting of the housing and property bubble that had begun during Q1 last year. Times continued to be tough but without the comprehensive intervention of the CCP Boyz, times could have become disastrous.

Presently however every system and nearly every institution of the CCP's political economy are crammed together on the head of a pin and the Boyz can't handle it. No one could handle or manage simultaneous and cascading calamities of such a great number and huge magnitude.

The CCP Boys have lost control of the economy and the country's finances. It is there for all the world to see. After issuing a series of orders over the past year that have only made things worse, the Boyz have exposed themselves as unable to manage anything. All the CCP Boyz have displayed all year for all the world to see is their reverse midas touch to everything.

The plain fact is that no one in any government anywhere in the world could deal on the same one single day with a typhoon, a tornado, 9.0 earthquakes occurring almost everywhere, floods high and low, highways and railways getting torn up and covered over, sinkholes appearing everywhere and anywhere, fires breaking out causing massive detonations, power failures, buildings collapsing, ships being crashed to shore in harbors everywhere and the like. This is a fair analogy to what is happening in the CCP economy and financial sectors.

RIP CCP.

[Publicus]

"Your posts do not respond in any respectable way to my posts..."

His posts don't track my posts but rather meander off into something else. I give a link and a Wall Street Journal explanation of how the Fed bailed out Europe and he comes back off topic with irrelevant nonsense.

I'm finished with him because he can't track what either of us says and therefore is unteachable and a waste of time.

Cheers.

PS You still owe me a cup of coffee.

I again enjoyed the coffee you again make a claim to....I hope you're not holding off on coffee while you wait for the java to arrive. I sent it overnight delivery by USPS for you to get by July 4th so you might wanna check it out asap. Seimens btw runs the USPS under contract to the USG so with Seimens operating in several ways over in the CCP China also the CCP Chinese are screwed too, difference is we know if we're being screwed while they over there do not. No clue over there.

Never paid these Austrian school feudal types much attention but now that the political economy pot is calling the political economy kettle black I must point out to the pot his own color, starting with his black shirt. Actually, brown shirt M,W,F and black shirt T, TH, Sat. (Sundays he washes both of 'em.)

The guy tries to present himself as an expert in economics while being nonpolitical, however, the Austrian school are 19th century ideologues who deal entirely in political economy and empire.

Cheers...

[capcc76]

China f'ed in a big way and for a long time. It's problems are only beginning to surface. End of story.

[AlexRRR]

Tony Abbot must be having nightmares now.

I feel for him, as he only just got into power and now forces beyond his control are going to ruin it for him. Be interesting to see if Labour makes expensive promises next election, given that the bank will be broke.

His night mares are of his own makings, anyone could have beaten labour in the last election, it's not like he has had some great expensive promises that ended up being squashed, time both major party's stop trying to buy the public and actually set about coming up with real policy's to fix what has been a sick economy of years.

[Harsh Jones]

China f'ed in a big way and for a long time. It's problems are only beginning to surface. End of story.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

[capcc76]

China f'ed in a big way and for a long time. It's problems are only beginning to surface. End of story.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

Your professed knowledge is laughable and you consistently prove to be wrong over and over. This is attributable to the fact that you prescribe to ridiculous motions and theories penned by a guy who lost his 7 and 66 and goes by cult classic name. I knew Daniel Ivandjiisk before he got popped. Dude is screwing with everyone and gets much pleasure out of bozos prescribing to all of his rhetoric.

China is so f'ed as is Russia right now. There is no need to write a 10,000 word dissertation once some stupid Thai Visa sight why. If you don't know why already it is even more comical you engage in discussions like this.

[capcc76]

China f'ed in a big way and for a long time. It's problems are only beginning to surface. End of story.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

Seriously, do any of you guys have any securities license (7 or 66), work in banking industry, a degree in economics, finance or how about a Series 79? If not, please don't bash people for their contributions because yours probably ain't all that either.

[Publicus]

In case some might be wondering about the Austrian school of political economy and the welcome introduction to the thread of the crackpot Daniel Ivandjiisk, here is some shorthand about it. Ivandjiisk founded the Austrian school oriented Zero Hedge and uses it to write under the pen name Tyler Durden....

Zero Hedge^[1] is a batshit insane Austrian economics-based finance blog run by a pseudonymous founder who posts articles under the name "Tyler Durden," after the character from Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk. It has accurately predicted 200 of the last 2 recessions.

Tyler claims to be a "believer in a sweeping conspiracy that casts the alumni of Goldman Sachs as a powerful cabal at the helm of U.S. policy, with the Treasury and the Federal Reserve colluding to preserve the status quo." While this is not an entirely unreasonable statement of the problem,^[2] his solution actually mirrors the anatagonist in Fight Club: Tyler wants, per Austrian school ideas, to lead a catastrophic market crash in order to destroy banking institutions and bring back "real" free market capitalism.^[3]

The site posts nearly indecipherable analyses of multiple seemingly unrelated subjects to point towards a consistent theme of economic collapse any day now.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

Hence we get at this thread the flighty theme that the crashes and collapses occurring in the CCP China will lead to the "catastrophic market crash" of the economy of the United States which is the wet dream of all the Austrian school political economists.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Publicus

[ExpatOilWorker]

RIP CCP.

That is hard words, especially in a thread that originated from a small cut in interest rate. Talk about the Butterfly Effect.

As mentioned earlier, the world and in particular The US will not stand idle by and watch China decent into chaos. What do you see coming out on the other end once the dust have settled on this Chinese financial tornado?

We have recently see countries such as Cyprus, Ireland, Island, Argentina and Thailand back in 1997 going through rough times, but they all emerge, some even stronger after some time.

What does the future have in store for China?

Edited September 4, 2015 by ExpatOilWorker

[NeverSure]

Seriously, do any of you guys have any securities license (7 or 66), work in banking industry, a degree in economics, finance or how about a Series 79? If not, please don't bash people for their contributions because yours probably ain't all that either.

I had a very rewarding career in banking including international banking. It doesn't really help that much here other than to have the vocabulary to be able to digest things. I don't see what a series 7 or other would do here either, as the state of China is a new dragon. I can readily see that China can't do without the US and certainly not without the US and the EU, but they can all do nicely long term without China.

It does help me to track things such as the Wall Street Journal article I posted where the US Fed bailed out Europe just 4 1/2 years ago and it gave me the network to have that article emailed to me at the time. Note that when I posted it I couldn't raise a comment from the other "experts" who were to busy bashing the Fed.

Cheers.

That is hard words, especially in a thread that originated from a small cut in interest rate. Talk about the Butterfly Effect.

As mentioned earlier, the world and in particular The US will not stand idle by and watch China decent into chaos. What do you see coming out on the other end once the dust have settled on this Chinese financial tornado?

We have recently see countries such as Cyprus, Ireland, Island, Argentina and Thailand back in 1997 going through rough times, but they all emerge, some even stronger after some time.

What does the future have in store for China?

I have no idea what its long term situation is because a lot depends on internal politics if you can call a hard line communist party politics. It has 1.3 billion mouths to feed and a GDP per person of just about 1/2 what even Thailand's is and about 1/10th of what the US is. That's too thin to try to spread around and be a prosperous country.

If the US and China had the same GDP, China's GDP per capita would be 1/4 of what the US is. That makes the US a huge marketplace without ever thinking of exporting.

China has to import oil and food and steel and other commodities for its people and it has to raise that money. The US has food and oil and fewer places to need it per capita. It simply costs more to raise a family of 12 than it does a family of 4 especially when you don't have many of your own resources to draw on. Having your own food and natural resources for your people is just like having money in the bank. Not having them is being in a tight spot.

China has painted itself into a corner and how bad it will be remains to be seen but it isn't pretty.

Cheers.

Edited September 4, 2015 by NeverSure

[Publicus]

RIP CCP.

That is hard words, especially in a thread that originated from a small cut in interest rate. Talk about the Butterfly Effect.

As mentioned earlier, the world and in particular The US will not stand idle by and watch China decent into chaos. What do you see coming out on the other end once the dust have settled on this Chinese financial tornado?

We have recently see countries such as Cyprus, Ireland, Island, Argentina and Thailand back in 1997 going through rough times, but they all emerge, some even stronger after some time.

What does the future have in store for China?

Mein Gott, a tall order indeed. One can only make some careful offerings.

The one thing for sure is that the China Century is over before it began. Everything is off the table now, from the South China Sea to the new canal through Nicaragua to the six-route $40 bn New Silk Road from CCP China to Europe.

The new energy contracts the CCP Boyz signed with Putin are stalled and inactive as the CCP Boyz can't pay their promised $25 billion advance payment to Russia. The Brics are smashed as is their New Development Bank alternative to the IMF. The IMF btw is not being cooperative in the Boyz desperate need to include the yuan in the basket of global SDR currencies, meaning the Boyz own cash-dry banks will have to remain their only source of loans.

China will not disappear by any means just as Thailand did not disappear because of its 1997 financial crisis, however, China has the baggage of CCP rule and domination that Thailand and other affected countries that have recovered never had to deal with. Given the systemic failures of the CCP economy and financial systems, it might seem strange that the positions of economy reformers Xi Jinping and PM Li Kejiang should be in jeopardy, but they are.

The danger of a coup has never been greater than it is now. The determined anti economy-reform faction remains formidable in the person of former Pres Jiang Zemin the 89 year old perpetual dictator-tyrant who continues to run his own parallel universe CCP China within the PRC. Xi has imprisoned three of Jiang's star coup aspirants, most notably Bo Jilai the hair on fire Maoist who ruled over the hugely rich Chongching in the southwest, plus two ministers of defense who were top generals, but Jiang keeps on coming at Xi and Li.

Jiang was yesterday right up there with the Boyz for the big military parade because Xi just can't take him out of the picture, so Li may have to go as the scapegoat of all the calamities underway. Jiang controls the 7-member Standing Committee 4-3 (sometimes 5-2) so he would name Li's successor which would exacerbate the national cross currents between economy reformers and anti.

While it can seem the reform hating Jiang is going to live forever, if he might croak between now and the end of the year we can suspect his food taster went south or something like it. The always cut throat Jiang only gets more dangerous because after his boy Bo Jilai got locked away by Xi as one of Xi's first acts on assuming power (corruption of course), Jiang then turned successively and unsuccessfully to two generals, each of whom had been defense minister at the time of their arrest by Xi (corruption of course). Xi may well have cinched his position a couple of months ago when he put under house arrest Jiang's man who was the brazen chief of domestic security forces, Zhou Yongkang.

Regardless of which major CCP faction is in control, the US knows it will have to make a fateful choice. Come to the aid of the CCP Boyz in a crisis of power, or aid the opposition in a crisis of power. I strongly suspect that in the final analysis Washington and the EU will side with which ever group in China would appear least likely to produce a bloodbath, either in defense of their power or in opposition to those in power.

Another alternative is something the CCP has already carefully considered, which is for the CCP to voluntarily step down in a crisis of power as a tactical move. The CCP expectation is that once the alternative to it fails in its turn at power, the people will turn to the CCP to resume power and restore order, peace, stability.

That is about as far as anyone can foresee at this point.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Publicus

[ExpatOilWorker]

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21663239-deflation-china-has-relatively-little-impact-abroad-inflated-claims

"To slow the yuan’s recent fall, for example, China has started to dip into its vast holdings of foreign-exchange reserves, selling off American Treasury bonds. For years, critics warned that China would drive up global interest rates by dumping Treasuries. In practice, though, strong global demand for American assets has negated the effect of China’s selling."

[Naam]

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21663239-deflation-china-has-relatively-little-impact-abroad-inflated-claims

"To slow the yuan’s recent fall, for example, China has started to dip into its vast holdings of foreign-exchange reserves, selling off American Treasury bonds. For years, critics warned that China would drive up global interest rates by dumping Treasuries. In practice, though, strong global demand for American assets has negated the effect of China’s selling."

how can the "boyz" sell what they don't possess? isn't that fraud?

[NeverSure]

If China continues to sell US treasuries to raise badly needed money it will have to continue to sell them on the open market. As mentioned, demand for that asset is strong so only the market knows what buyers would require for an interest rate. As we all know if a buyer wants a higher interest rate on a fixed ten year treasury he simply offers less than face value for the bond, increasing his overall return. That hasn't happened, but it will if the Fed raises interest rates because that would put existing lower rate bonds at a disadvantage.

Few talk about the Fed's desire to keep holders of bonds happy by not undermining the value of their existing term bonds with new rollover bonds that pay a higher interest rate but it matters. When you have a global portfolio of bonds that bear different interest rates, obviously the ones that pay the most are worth the most.

In any event this wouldn't affect the US or Europe or the Fed because it would be China the seller, and the market the buyer, apart from the US. China is lucky in that regard that it has a liquid asset it can sell to raise this badly desperately needed money.

[Harsh Jones]

In case some might be wondering about the Austrian school of political economy and the welcome introduction to the thread of the crackpot Daniel Ivandjiisk, here is some shorthand about it. Ivandjiisk founded the Austrian school oriented Zero Hedge and uses it to write under the pen name Tyler Durden....

Zero Hedge^[1] is a batshit insane Austrian economics-based finance blog run by a pseudonymous founder who posts articles under the name "Tyler Durden," after the character from Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk. It has accurately predicted 200 of the last 2 recessions.

Tyler claims to be a "believer in a sweeping conspiracy that casts the alumni of Goldman Sachs as a powerful cabal at the helm of U.S. policy, with the Treasury and the Federal Reserve colluding to preserve the status quo." While this is not an entirely unreasonable statement of the problem,^[2] his solution actually mirrors the anatagonist in Fight Club: Tyler wants, per Austrian school ideas, to lead a catastrophic market crash in order to destroy banking institutions and bring back "real" free market capitalism.^[3]

The site posts nearly indecipherable analyses of multiple seemingly unrelated subjects to point towards a consistent theme of economic collapse any day now.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

Hence we get at this thread the flighty theme that the crashes and collapses occurring in the CCP China will lead to the "catastrophic market crash" of the economy of the United States which is the wet dream of all the Austrian school political economists.

Got any more from the Urban Dictionary ?

The biggest fall for the move in the DOW was blamed on China. Not by me but by sell side US koolaid drinkers.and you even blamed China a few pages ago. So what is it then ?

[Scott]

I have removed an off-topic post and reply. Although comparisons are permitted, and it is known that economies are interconnected, the topic is about China.

Please stay on topic.

[NeverSure]

The biggest fall in the Dow was blamed on exposure to China-the-Disaster^TM. On August 24 2015 (yeah, just 10 days ago) when the Dow took its big dump, US treasuries took a big gain in value. On. That. Day. LINK

People were dumping stocks world wide and buying US treasuries.

Anyone who has invested in China, and a lot of idiots have, has exposure. That idiot might have to sell the Dow to cover his losses in the Shcomp. A lot of things fell worldwide including commodities including oil. Some of those things have shaken out a bit but there is a finite amount of investment money sloshing around.

It has been very stylish to invest in emerging Asian markets including China for quite a while and those idiot investors are getting theirs now. Money has been pouring out of China.

Cheers.

[Harsh Jones]

China f'ed in a big way and for a long time. It's problems are only beginning to surface. End of story.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

Your professed knowledge is laughable and you consistently prove to be wrong over and over. This is attributable to the fact that you prescribe to ridiculous motions and theories penned by a guy who lost his 7 and 66 and goes by cult classic name. I knew Daniel Ivandjiisk before he got popped. Dude is screwing with everyone and gets much pleasure out of bozos prescribing to all of his rhetoric.

China is so f'ed as is Russia right now. There is no need to write a 10,000 word dissertation once some stupid Thai Visa sight why. If you don't know why already it is even more comical you engage in discussions like this.

Just because you say I am wrong about anything does not make it so unless you back it up which you have not.

From former treasury sec Hank Paulson

"When Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac started to become unglued, and you know there were $5.4tn of securities relating to Fannie and Freddie, $1.7tn outside of the US. The Chinese were the biggest external investor holding Fannie and Freddie securities"

"And so when I went to Congress and asked for these emergency powers [to stabilise Fannie and Freddie], and I was getting the living daylights beaten out of me by our Congress publicly, I needed to call the Chinese regularly to explain to the Central Bank, 'listen this is our political system, this is political theatre, we will get this done'. And I didn't have quite that much certainty myself but I sure did everything I could to reassure them."

In other words, China had lent so much to the US that Mr Paulson needed to do his best to persuade its government and central bank that China's investment in all this US debt would not be impaired. And in the end, it all still fell apart and the Chinese lost trillions and Wall Street would see its biggest bailout in history.

Who's the biggest external holder of treasuries again ?

[Harsh Jones]

China f'ed in a big way and for a long time. It's problems are only beginning to surface. End of story.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

Seriously, do any of you guys have any securities license (7 or 66), work in banking industry, a degree in economics, finance or how about a Series 79? If not, please don't bash people for their contributions because yours probably ain't all that either.

Umm what does the license to paint the tape and take a bath on the Shake Shack IPO have to do with macroeconomics and central banking besides nothing ?

And this is the guy claiming to know the Zerohedge guy, who he thinks invented Austrian economics in 2009.

Someone who does know Austrian economics ? Former Fed chair Paul Volker

INTERVIEWER: Can we talk a little bit about your early influences as an economist? Were you exposed at all to the Austrian School of economy?

PAUL VOLCKER: I happened to have been exposed when I was an undergraduate, because my first teachers of economic theory came from the Austrian School, and this was in the late '40s. They were not all enamored of Mr. Keynes and the Anglo-Saxon traditions of economics, so I had a pretty good exposure to the Austrian School and Mr. Böhm-Bawerk and all his friends.

[Harsh Jones]

The biggest fall in the Dow was blamed on exposure to China-the-Disaster^TM. On August 24 2015 (yeah, just 10 days ago) when the Dow took its big dump, US treasuries took a big gain in value. On. That. Day. LINK

People were dumping stocks world wide and buying US treasuries.

Anyone who has invested in China, and a lot of idiots have, has exposure. That idiot might have to sell the Dow to cover his losses in the Shcomp. A lot of things fell worldwide including commodities including oil. Some of those things have shaken out a bit but there is a finite amount of investment money sloshing around.

It has been very stylish to invest in emerging Asian markets including China for quite a while and those idiot investors are getting theirs now. Money has been pouring out of China.

Cheers.

Quite awhile meaning since February of this year ?

Some of these China indexes are still green for the year while the US indexes aren't or close to it. But the propaganda tells us that China and its stocks were this slow crawling bubble that suddenly blew up. When in reality, the Chinese loosened their regs on who could open investing accounts which put a ton of money into these indexes that weren't moving anywhere for the last few years.

[capcc76]

China f'ed in a big way and for a long time. It's problems are only beginning to surface. End of story.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

Seriously, do any of you guys have any securities license (7 or 66), work in banking industry, a degree in economics, finance or how about a Series 79? If not, please don't bash people for their contributions because yours probably ain't all that either.

Umm what does the license to paint the tape and take a bath on the Shake Shack IPO have to do with macroeconomics and central banking besides nothing ?

And this is the guy claiming to know the Zerohedge guy, who he thinks invented Austrian economics in 2009.

Someone who does know Austrian economics ? Former Fed chair Paul Volker

INTERVIEWER: Can we talk a little bit about your early influences as an economist? Were you exposed at all to the Austrian School of economy?

PAUL VOLCKER: I happened to have been exposed when I was an undergraduate, because my first teachers of economic theory came from the Austrian School, and this was in the late '40s. They were not all enamored of Mr. Keynes and the Anglo-Saxon traditions of economics, so I had a pretty good exposure to the Austrian School and Mr. Böhm-Bawerk and all his friends.

Lets see,

someone actually working in the industru who is actually licensed and registered with FINRA be it a 7, 66, 65, 63, 3 or a 79 and makes it their business to know this stuff on a professional level

versus

Someone who wakes up in the morning type China into Google and regurgitates what is written on the Internet that seems to support your side of the equation

Not a tough choice.

Anyone in the business, be it retail, fund manager, analyst or investment banker keeps up with macro and micro economic factors world wide on almost a daily basis and has access to much better info than the Google search button.

All of the really smart guys, even analyst, eventually try their hand a retail because the money is huge if you can make it.

Edited September 4, 2015 by capcc76

[Naam]

The biggest fall in the Dow was blamed on exposure to China-the-Disaster^TM. On August 24 2015 (yeah, just 10 days ago) when the Dow took its big dump, US treasuries took a big gain in value. On. That. Day. LINK

People were dumping stocks world wide and buying US treasuries.

Anyone who has invested in China, and a lot of idiots have, has exposure. That idiot might have to sell the Dow to cover his losses in the Shcomp. A lot of things fell worldwide including commodities including oil. Some of those things have shaken out a bit but there is a finite amount of investment money sloshing around.

It has been very stylish to invest in emerging Asian markets including China for quite a while and those idiot investors are getting theirs now. Money has been pouring out of China.

Cheers.

Quite awhile meaning since February of this year ?

Some of these China indexes are still green for the year while the US indexes aren't or close to it. But the propaganda tells us that China and its stocks were this slow crawling bubble that suddenly blew up. When in reality, the Chinese loosened their regs on who could open investing accounts which put a ton of money into these indexes that weren't moving anywhere for the last few years.

i conclude that this comparison chart was faked by the CCP Boyz in Beijing

[Harsh Jones]

China f'ed in a big way and for a long time. It's problems are only beginning to surface. End of story.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

Seriously, do any of you guys have any securities license (7 or 66), work in banking industry, a degree in economics, finance or how about a Series 79? If not, please don't bash people for their contributions because yours probably ain't all that either.

Umm what does the license to paint the tape and take a bath on the Shake Shack IPO have to do with macroeconomics and central banking besides nothing ?

And this is the guy claiming to know the Zerohedge guy, who he thinks invented Austrian economics in 2009.

Someone who does know Austrian economics ? Former Fed chair Paul Volker

INTERVIEWER: Can we talk a little bit about your early influences as an economist? Were you exposed at all to the Austrian School of economy?
PAUL VOLCKER: I happened to have been exposed when I was an undergraduate, because my first teachers of economic theory came from the Austrian School, and this was in the late '40s. They were not all enamored of Mr. Keynes and the Anglo-Saxon traditions of economics, so I had a pretty good exposure to the Austrian School and Mr. Böhm-Bawerk and all his friends.

Lets see,

someone actually working in the industru who is actually licensed and registered with FINRA be it a 7, 66, 65, 63, 3 or a 79 and makes it their business to know this stuff on a professional level

versus

Someone who wakes up in the morning type China into Google and regurgitates what is written on the Internet that seems to support your side of the equation

Not a tough choice.

Anyone in the business, be it retail, fund manager, analyst or investment banker keeps up with macro and micro economic factors world wide on almost a daily basis and has access to much better info than the Google search button.

All of the really smart guys, even analyst, eventually try their hand a retail because the money is huge if you can make it.

Was that the one that Bernie Madoff was chair of ? Regardless.. The financial meth labs on wall street are in the business of selling for the sake of selling. Most of these guys don't even believe their own BS. And most of them are even Keynesians

[capcc76]

^^^^^^ You confuse knowledge with doing the right thing. The two don't always go hand and hand.

[Harsh Jones]

anyway Ive been waiting for the anti China crew to point out a certain thing that the US does actually have the Chinese beat at. Something about composition of reserves... But Im not going to say it.

[capcc76]

anyway Ive been waiting for the anti China crew to point out a certain thing that the US does actually have the Chinese beat at. Something about composition of reserves... But Im not going to say it.

Too funny. Both countries do certain things well. Both countries are good countries. China is really f'ed right now. If you are too proud to see it or to obstinate to admit because of your distaste for Anerica then good on you. Lol, you got Russia totally wrong this time last year . . . Why should it be any different with China.

I hope China can pull it together, not because of how it impacts anyone else but because there are a lot if really poor people there that trusted their government and are getting hammered right now. Those that could least afford it are getting hurt.

[Publicus]

The biggest fall in the Dow was blamed on exposure to China-the-Disaster^TM. On August 24 2015 (yeah, just 10 days ago) when the Dow took its big dump, US treasuries took a big gain in value. On. That. Day. LINK

People were dumping stocks world wide and buying US treasuries.

Anyone who has invested in China, and a lot of idiots have, has exposure. That idiot might have to sell the Dow to cover his losses in the Shcomp. A lot of things fell worldwide including commodities including oil. Some of those things have shaken out a bit but there is a finite amount of investment money sloshing around.

It has been very stylish to invest in emerging Asian markets including China for quite a while and those idiot investors are getting theirs now. Money has been pouring out of China.

Cheers.

Quite awhile meaning since February of this year ?

Some of these China indexes are still green for the year while the US indexes aren't or close to it. But the propaganda tells us that China and its stocks were this slow crawling bubble that suddenly blew up. When in reality, the Chinese loosened their regs on who could open investing accounts which put a ton of money into these indexes that weren't moving anywhere for the last few years.

The Shenzhen Stock Exchange has 1665 listed companies and going into the CCP China equities crash had a market capitalization of $3.4 Trillion. It does not measure up against the Dow, Nasdaq, S&P.

All the same however, on Friday June 12th the Shenzhen Composite closed at 3,140 and, with the Shanghai Composite closing at 5,166, the two exchanges jointly contributed to the CCP China equities markets gain of $6.4 Trillion during the year to that date. By September 1st the Shenzhen Composite closed at 1.695 which is a collapse of 46 percent.

While Shenzhen was Deng Xiao Peng's original Exclusive Economic Zone of model growth from the early and mid-1990s and is a thriving city, its stock exchange is much smaller than either the Shanghai, Hong Kong, NYSE, Nasdaq, S&P. Comparatively speaking the chart in the post above means nothing and less than nothing.

The margin loans permitted and strongly encouraged by the CCP Boyz for the Shanghai Exchange are the same as for the Shenzhen Exchange. In short, this stuff in the CCP China is just another run of the mill instance of the multiplicity of the CCP Boys' reverse midas touch.

http://inflation.us/china-stocks-down-45-since-nia-predicted-crash-of-66/

Edited September 6, 2015 by Scott
Oversized graphic removed

[Publicus]

Five interest rate cuts from January through August and five reductions of the TripleR should have accomplished something in the CCP China but it has not produced anything positive. Instead, all this panic cutting and slashing only indicates the CCP Boyz in Beijing are flailing over an economy they can no longer control. After the sudden and shock depreciation of the yuan, the central bank is now going in a radically opposite direction, saying the yuan will appreciate over the next 2-3 years. The bottom line here is that the CCP Boyz don't have two or three years.

Lombard Research told the G-20 meeting the past week in Turkey that China GDP went negative in Q1 this year and that 2015 growth is at the least 3 percent lower than any claims the CCP Boyz are making. That is still awfully generous as the Boyz are claiming 7% growth this year even though they're now suggesting it might be in the area of 6+ percent. So Lombard says less than 4% growth while Nomura which was the first to call the bursting of the housing bubble during Q1 last year says 2.2 percent growth this year. This is in an economy that needs 8 percent annual growth to keep up with labor market demands.

The CCP Boyz now have the Trump Syndrome of needing to provide specific details of policies and programs the Boyz don't have nor will they have. The G-20 just told the CCP Boyz to provide specifics.

"Viable alternatives—not rhetoric—should be presented," South Korean Finance Minister Choi Kyung-hwan said in an interview ahead of a meeting of G-20 finance ministers and central bankers Friday and Saturday.

"There are questions being raised about Chinese policy-making over the last several months," said Ted Truman, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Affairs and former top financial diplomat at the U.S. Treasury. "They look less like a smooth-oiled machine and more like they are making it up as they go along. That has unnerved some people."

"The question is, are they managing that transition in an effective and orderly way," U.S. Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew told CNBC Wednesday.

Dr. Yao Yudong, head of the People's Bank of China Research Institute of Finance and Banking, said even if the yuan's inclusion in the International Monetary Fund's currency basket, known as Special Drawing Rights (SDR), were made, effective January 2017, it would not help to "immediately" ease a shortage of liquidity globally. Yao said any such easing may not happen for another 20 years due to China's sustained current account surplus. "China's high savings rate means China cannot provide liquidity to the world via the current account right now," he said. The CCP Boyz in Beijing don't have another twenty years either.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy-policy/2015/09/04/g-20-seeks-reassurances-that-china-plans-to-calm-markets/