Full-fledged western-inspired democracy 'unfit for Thailand'

[webfact]

NEW CHARTER
CDC defends five-year 'transitional system'
PIYAPORN WONGRUANG,
KHANITTHA THEPKAJORN
THE NATION

Full-fledged western-inspired democracy 'unfit for Thailand'

BANGKOK: -- THE NEW charter is aimed at getting Thailand back on its feet with a five-year "transitional" democracy, rather than trying to inflict another "mature" democracy on the country, Borwornsak Uwanno, chairman of the Constitution Drafting Committee, told the press yesterday.

"After things fell apart like we'd never seen, I would like to ask if we still want it - a Western-style full-fledged democracy?" he asked.

The CDC has tried it best to find a democratic model that fits the country's situation, he said. During the past 10 years, the country has been facing the plague of corruption as well as a deep division that finds no end, significantly because of a Western full-fledged democracy.

It has seen the constitution torn up twice, and the government fall under a military regime. So, looking to the left, people will see a failed full-fledged democracy, while looking to the right, they will see a coup waiting.

To chart a course out of such a dilemma, the CDC decided to write a charter that gave life to a "transitional democracy" before letting it grow into an adult one when the time was right.

"Now, you may have already heard what politicians have voiced about the draft charter -nothing has changed at all. One party keeps insisting on upholding the rule of law, but never offers a solution, while the other keeps rejecting reconciliation without the root problem tackled.

"So how would all of us be able to move on with such a tone of voice? If we write a charter like those of 1997 and 2007, we will see them enter politics again and everything will go back to the same dilemma," he said.

The CDC decided that a full-fledged democracy would be reached after passing a transitional stage of five years. This transitional democracy is aimed at patching up the deep conflict, promoting reconciliation and navigating the country towards "reform".

What people will see in the future is a government running the country along with a new mechanism that will help it in reform and reconciliation work. And in times of crisis, it will act as an intervener to prevent the country from falling apart, Borwornsak said.

"The mechanism may not be of a full-fledged democracy. It's half-half, as it would have a prime minister, a parliament president as well as their predecessors to sit on the same committee. But as we are in a transition, we must learn from past lessons and not repeat them," he said.

People should look for three things when considering whether they will accept the new charter - whether it will help solve past problems, whether it is an advancement from the charters of 1997 and 2007, and whether it can help bring about reform and reconciliation in the country, he added.

Kamnoon Sidhisamarn, the CDC's spokesman, said the committee had drafted the charter to tackle political conflict as well as the deep-rooted problem of inequality.

The last chapter, which involves reform and reconciliation, would not be found anywhere else, as it was designed to fit Thailand's situation only. And more important, the CDC did not wish to see yet another coup.

The special powers given to the National Strategic Reform and Reconciliation Commission would end after five years, but the committee's continuity under Chapter 4 could be reconsidered via a referendum.

"We have written the charter with all the knowledge we have and to meet the reality of our society. We are confident to some extent that it has offered us all a way out and we are willing to reveal everything before you," he said.

The CDC did not insert the NSRRC mechanism at the last minute - it was there from the start and developed over time, he said.

Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam rejected the notion that the Cabinet was behind the idea of creating the NSRRC, saying it did not propose such a charter amendment to the CDC.

Politicians would not be able to design campaigns against the charter, as the draft referendum law would not allow that. It's feared that that would cause a conflict to arise again.

But they could air their views publicly through the media, he said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/CDC-defends-five-year-transitional-system-30267537.html


-- The Nation 2015-08-27

[noitom]

The Thais just an't come out and say what it is. They prefer to focus on what it is not.

[MaiChai]

Root of the problem is wrong doers are never punished and until that happens expect those in power to continue to abuse their positions and self enrich themselves. Thus don't expect any improvement any time soon. In essence Thailand is not ready for democracy.

[BigBadGeordie]

Well done Khun Borwornsak, at last someone has identified the causes of corruption and deep division in Thailand, it's all down to the adoption of "Western fully-fledged democracy"!

Additionally during the lead up to the referendum on the charter,

"Politicians would not be able to design campaigns against the charter, as the draft referendum law would not allow that. It's feared that would cause conflict to arise again.

But they could air their views publicly through the media, he said."

So the government will use all their power and the state controlled media to push for a "Yes" vote, whilst no doubt those not in favour would have their views publicised fully by the same media?

Sounds really like equal access to me, when compared to say, Zimbabwe, North Korea, Cuba, Myanmar and their good pals China.

Edited August 26, 2015 by BigBadGeordie

[piersbeckett]

'Western style' and 'fully fledged' are not IMO relevant terms; 'rule of law' and 'broad based (including economics and political science) education' also 'seeking advice from anti-corruption org's' and 'looking at the least corrupt (at least in the public sector) countries such as New Zealand' are more to the point if a serious attempt at a properly functioning democracy is to be made.

[BSJ]

They just go round and round don't they! Always BS, never lock anything in with cement. Democracy can work if the laws are written right in the first place.

[Laughing Gravy]

Absolute drivel in this article. Trying to justify the ruling elite to stay in power because they can't win a majority in a democratic elected government. Also these people re as corrupt as anyone. Why don't you make populist policies and the people may vote for you. Don't use the excuse of we have had corrupt governments. This article is an embarrassment to Thai people. They know what is going on and this is just more propaganda to justify not have free elections. Thailand is ready for democracy. Get rid of corruption from all sides.

[Felt 35]

Full-fledged western-inspired democracy 'unfit for Thailand'

Above is the problem and with a look within they had at least said "Thailand unfit for democracy", but breed of selfishness, Be1st and no sense for the common good, but blame something which are functionally in most Western countries.

[aussieinthailand]

2007 constitution needed a few tweaks here and there but mostly ok.

So when the people are not happy with a government they vote them out which is what the 2007 constitution allows for and was put into action.

The problem was that poling stations were left to a mob that didn't want the rule of law and blocked and bashed people from voting.

Now if the police upheld the law AND the military as a security force were doing it's job protecting the poling stations then the people could have voted and the (umpires) the people make their choice.

But that didn't happen so this what Thailand now has, What a bloody mess, a few deciding what is good for the multitude.

and any detractors told they don't have the right to criticize and then go ahead and criticize those very people for voicing their opinion and the PM attacking the media for doing it's job.

And so the selected few think that having what some could call a shadow military government ready at a moments notice to take control again.

Thailand is special, the outside world understands the situation, the outside world don't understand that we are special, 97% love me.

78% love me and I'm doing an outstanding job. They don't the right, There will be no coup, I have no interest in being PM.

You can not criticize me, attitude adjustments, etc etc etc.

[NongKhaiKid]

They just go round and round don't they! Always BS, never lock anything in with cement. Democracy can work if the laws are written right in the first place.

And enforced without fear or favour.

Oh waken up NKK have you forgotten where you are ?

Next thing you'll expect the army to stay in the barracks.

[Christie Paul]

Q. ) So the people of the West voted for continuous war, ever increasing taxation, the evisceration of individual rights, spectacular corruption in high places and everything being owned and controlled by a dozen corporations.

A. ) Yes, that's democracy.

Q. ) Then what's the difference between democracy and oligarchy?

A. ) Shut up.

[Puwa]

All this blather about constitutions, elections, democracy, and timetables masks what is really going on. The military will remain in power until a particular historic event, which cannot be discussed, takes place, and the resulting transition and aftermath are under control. Anyone who has lived here for a while should understand this implicitly, like it or not. I reckon it's going to be a long ride.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Puwa

[Fat Haggis]

Thailand isn't ready? Yes it is, it's the controlling elite of the country from all sides who are not ready to lose their grip and control over their minions, if the Military stopped interfering and went back to running the country's golf courses sorry providing defence to the country, trimmed down their over inflated list of Generals, who all need backhanders, sorry salaries, Thailand might actually start being allowed to move into the 21st century.

It's always the Junta fanbois who keep stating that Thailand isn't ready for any sort of democracy, and yet they whined and bitch about this, but still decided that whatever Thailand has/had to offer, it's a hundred times better than their home countries yes? ... I highly doubt this for one minute!!

[EnglishJohn]

I'm sorry to say that he is right.

The cornerstone of democracy is that the people elected by the government are people of the highest morale fiber who will put the needs of the people in their constituency and the country above their own. More than that : if they do not then the people have the power to remove them from office.

The 310:0 amnesty disgrace was a tragedy with implications far beyond whether the bogeyman comes back or not. It showed just how dishonest and corrupt every single member of the government was.

A democracy cannot function when the people will elect representatives like that. Thailand needs something else - where naughty officials can get spanked for stealing. Long prison terms and lifetime bans would be a start : the rules as they are now have clearly been written by politicians with an eye to protecting themselves should they end up being the one under the spotlight.

[crusader79]

Couldn't agree more. Look around you, why tamper with perfection?

[Briggsy]

The announcement disingenuously uses the old chestnut that holding elections is democracy. There is much more to a functioning democracy than simply holding elections.

There must be agencies of the state which do what they say on the tin.

The people running the administration, the elected representatives, the civil servants, the police need to have and practise moral courage and operate in an environment where there is a likelihood that this behaviour will not seriously disadvantage them.

None of this has ever really existed in Thailand.

[CWMcMurray]

What makes a democracy work is Rule of Law, Checks and Balances and Enforcement of those laws with prosecutions of those in Government that break the laws

This helps to control power abuse and corruption.

This this the area that Thailand seems to be having trouble with.

I hope that the necessary reforms to combat this root cause can be implemented at some point

[EnglishJohn]

Thailand isn't ready? Yes it is, it's the controlling elite of the country from all sides who are not ready to lose their grip and control over their minions, if the Military stopped interfering and went back to running the country's golf courses sorry providing defence to the country, trimmed down their over inflated list of Generals, who all need backhanders, sorry salaries, Thailand might actually start being allowed to move into the 21st century.

It's always the Junta fanbois who keep stating that Thailand isn't ready for any sort of democracy, and yet they whined and bitch about this, but still decided that whatever Thailand has/had to offer, it's a hundred times better than their home countries yes? ... I highly doubt this for one minute!!

Hilarious : blaming the Junta for stopping progress.

A bimbo with no political experience put in as a useless PM because she is the brother of a man in exile because of corruption (and don't try to say he is innocent).

Attempts to take MASSIVE loans off-budget (with no good explanation) to have the people pay it off for the next 50 years. And if you don't realize that it would have been gradually siphoned away on things like the rice-scheme to avoid bankrupting the country then you are living in a fantasy world.

Railroading an amnesty bill through Parliament in the most disgraceful manner possible to absolve themselves of all corruption charges since 2004.

Sending terrorists to murder peaceful protestors to scare them off the streets.

Is this your idea of what Democracy is ?. A 310:0 vote for amnesty : not a single member of the government had the ethics to vote for what was right. Not one !.

The word hypocrite is not strong enough to describe the people who whine about the Junta and ignore the reasons they are there in the first place.

You can keep calling us 'Junta Fanboys' if it convinces you that you are right in your little room spitting on your keyboard as you type - but the truth of the situation is that most intelligent people don't agree with a Junta at all. They are far from ideal but they are a hundred times better than that last bunch of dirty cronies who were stealing everything they could from the country and it's people.

[LannaGuy]

What they really mean is

"the party which wins government is never the one we, the elite rich, want because we cannot control the people and get the returns WE and our rich families deserve"

so

"let's forget democracy and do it 'Thai Style' which means we'll fix it so WE get what we were born for - more and more power, money and control"

I mean "it's for the good of the people who are unfit to govern right?"

Edited August 27, 2015 by LannaGuy

[lovelomsak]

Thailand never will fully accept democracy. It goes against their culture. Thailand is still in the same timeframe as England was at the time of Lords and surfs, and how long ago was that. Thailand has a long way to go before democracy can be put in place, probably never.

Thailand doesnot need to go the road of democracy or even give up slavery. The consumers of the rest of the world donot care if cheap goods they buy are from democratic countreis or slave infested countries , Consumer driven countries only care about consuming. Thailands way of governing is of no consequence to others really, let 10 families keep their power just give the rest of the world cheap goods. That is reality why it is teflon Thailand. Others selfish greedy wants.

People shouldnot criticize Thailand but should reflect at what they let happen tp simply have a cheap product they donot even really need but want as consumers.

If democracy truly came to Thailand cheap goods would be gone Is the rest of the world ready for that.

Thaiallnd doenot need it and the rest of the world could care less if Thailand has a democracy.

[bamnutsak]

"After things fell apart like we'd never seen, I would like to ask if we still want it - a Western-style full-fledged democracy?" he asked.

"Like we'd never seen"? Seriously, has he been in a coma for all his life?

Thai-style, half-a$$ed democracy it is then.

And it's not like he's "asking" what people want, he's telling them what they'll get.

[worgeordie]

Real democracy will never see the light of day,when

people with the most money to buy the most votes,

win.

regards Worgeordie

[chiang mai]

Democracy is certainly not right for all countries, there needs to be degrees and variants of it applied where appropriate.

[MZurf]

Thailand isn't ready? Yes it is, it's the controlling elite of the country from all sides who are not ready to lose their grip and control over their minions, if the Military stopped interfering and went back to running the country's golf courses sorry providing defence to the country, trimmed down their over inflated list of Generals, who all need backhanders, sorry salaries, Thailand might actually start being allowed to move into the 21st century.

It's always the Junta fanbois who keep stating that Thailand isn't ready for any sort of democracy, and yet they whined and bitch about this, but still decided that whatever Thailand has/had to offer, it's a hundred times better than their home countries yes? ... I highly doubt this for one minute!!

Hilarious : blaming the Junta for stopping progress.

A bimbo with no political experience put in as a useless PM because she is the brother of a man in exile because of corruption (and don't try to say he is innocent).

Attempts to take MASSIVE loans off-budget (with no good explanation) to have the people pay it off for the next 50 years. And if you don't realize that it would have been gradually siphoned away on things like the rice-scheme to avoid bankrupting the country then you are living in a fantasy world.

Railroading an amnesty bill through Parliament in the most disgraceful manner possible to absolve themselves of all corruption charges since 2004.

Sending terrorists to murder peaceful protestors to scare them off the streets.

Is this your idea of what Democracy is ?. A 310:0 vote for amnesty : not a single member of the government had the ethics to vote for what was right. Not one !.

The word hypocrite is not strong enough to describe the people who whine about the Junta and ignore the reasons they are there in the first place.

You can keep calling us 'Junta Fanboys' if it convinces you that you are right in your little room spitting on your keyboard as you type - but the truth of the situation is that most intelligent people don't agree with a Junta at all. They are far from ideal but they are a hundred times better than that last bunch of dirty cronies who were stealing everything they could from the country and it's people.

"Railroading an amnesty bill through Parliament in the most disgraceful manner possible to absolve themselves of all corruption charges since 2004."

I don't know what's most disgraceful - trying to sneak an amnesty bill through parliament or trying to write perennial military rule into the constitution. Hold on, I do know what's more disgraceful.

"The word hypocrite is not strong enough to describe the people who whine about the Junta and ignore the reasons they are there in the first place. "

And I guess you think the reason they are in power is their wish to end corruption, nepotism etc? The junta took power to relieve the people of the burdensome task of voting, thereby freeing up more time to study Uncle Too's 12 principles, and in the process (by chance!) preventing the wrong snouts from accessing the trough.

John, oh John, when are you going to get rid of your rose tinted glasses? And here is a fact for you;

You don't get to criticize the opinions of those of us who don't support any of the factions as long as you cheer for a faction that has Suthep as one of its most important players. You just don't!

[Lupatria]

They just go round and round don't they! Always BS, never lock anything in with cement. Democracy can work if the laws are written right in the first place.

Laws require an adequate law enforcement. This is never going to happen with underpaid officials and untouchables in a society that accepts bribes and corruption as part of its culture. In regard with the media- what kind of journalism is it if they come up with a headline like the above while everyone already knows, it is not that democracy is not fit for the country, it is that Thais are not fit for democracy.

[lostoday]

[oval]

Democracy is overrated.

England, Australia, the USA - all democracies, all overregulated nanny states where inequality is increasing, the government follows the will of big business, and it's boring.

Democracy? Meh.

Edited August 27, 2015 by oval

[halloween]

Yeah John, listen to the monkey. You can't criticize Thaksin's sycophants because Suthep ...............exists?

[LannaGuy]

Democracy is overrated.

England, Australia, the USA - all democracies, all overregulated nanny states where inequality is increasing, the government follows the will of big business, and it's boring.

Democracy? Meh.

uninformed and uneducated post, so you prefer military juntas huh? western democracy ain't perfect but it's the best we got

[oneday]

"...significantly because of a Western full-fledged democracy..."

Since when has this country EVER seen a full-fledged Democracy?