Why do they do it ?

[RolandRat]

I have often wondered why people ask for the relevant law or paragraph of immigration rules or a website etc, when they hit an immigration obstacle at a border control point or Immigration office.

If you are in the West, in Europe as an example, there may be a reasonable argument or debate and a degree of consistency in rules and regulations, but in Asia, particularly in Thailand its pointless as anyone who has been in Thailand for any length of time knows, there is no consistency, it varies from place to place and even from Officer to Officer and how they interpret the requirements.Not just for immigration either, Banks and other offices are the same.

There is very little point bleating and complaining to an anonymous internet forum, it doesnt matter what is stated here or there in this paper or that, or any website.

The ONLY thing that matters is the uniformed Immigration officer stood in front of you and what he/she requires and interprets as a requirement to enter/remain in Thailand or not, everything else is just guesswork.

You can plead your case with the Officer concerned or request to see a superior of course, but little else will help as every individual circumstance is different and the Immigration Officer has the final decision anyway.

The only real recourse, which is both time consuming and expensive, is to seek correct and appropriate legal advice and guidance from a qualified professional, who can possibly argue the case, but stood in an office or at a border control point, that's not really realistic or an option. So just accept it, meet the requirements, or make alternate arrangements for another time, that's all there is to it, because at that specific moment, you are at the mercy and will, of the Uniform in front of you. Pointing out that they are wrong, wont help you here, in fact, with the "saving face" aspect, it just makes them more determined.

Dont waste your time, accept it for what it is, as frustrating and even upsetting as it may be, its the way it is.

Not saying its "right" but people need to realise it and stop looking for a "work around" and some magical words or phrase to get what they think they are entitled.

Edited September 2, 2015 by RolandRat

[gk10002000]

They do it because sometimes, if not often it helps to be informed. One shouldn't just show up not knowing anything about the rules or policies or laws. Need someplace to start. Then if things look cockeyed, at least you can prepare your argument. It certainly wouldn't be a good idea to try to argue for something that is clearly against what is written.

[RolandRat]

They do it because sometimes, if not often it helps to be informed. One shouldn't just show up not knowing anything about the rules or policies or laws. Need someplace to start. Then if things look cockeyed, at least you can prepare your argument. It certainly wouldn't be a good idea to try to argue for something that is clearly against what is written.

thats preparation and pre-planning,and I agree with you, but not what I was referring to, in my first line I am referring to "at the time" when they hit the problem etc and then look for a loop hole to run through which just wont work, that's the point I am referring to.

Edited September 2, 2015 by RolandRat

[nowretired]

An amazing and very generalised Rant .

Where is the evidence which would support the claims made?

I have lived in Thailand for a long time

Why have I never had " to seek correct and appropriate legal advice and guidance from a qualified professional" ?

[RolandRat]

An amazing and very generalised Rant .

Where is the evidence which would support the claims made?

I have lived in Thailand for a long time

Why have I never had " to seek correct and appropriate legal advice and guidance from a qualified professional" ?

Quite probably because you never had any issues and met the immigration requirements for your circumstances at the appropriate time and werent refused or challenged as described in the circumstances of the OP as described in the opening lines.

Edited September 2, 2015 by CharlieH

[allane]

In 20 yrs.here, I have never had a problem, nor have I ever paid a bribe, or, to the best of my knowledge, had one paid on my behalf (by my employers, while I was working). This forum does have a large number of people complaining about real or imagined corruption at Immigration. I think it has somewhat more people complaining that they are unable to get Immigration to bend or ignore the rules to give them what they want.

[Soutpeel]

One suspects if a punter starts pushing extracts from immigration law in the face IO anywhere in world, expect a hard time off them even if the punter is right, these people are in authority and it really winds them up when people get stroppy with them waving an english language extract in the face of a Thai immigration guy may not be the smartest move

I learned my lesson with customs guy in my own country over import of personal effects after being out the country for more than 12 months no import tax was due per the law, i was right, he was wrong trying to charge me, but it didnt stop them holding at customs for nearly 3 hours all by belongings unpacked on a table, they were squeezing the toothpaste out the tube looking for "drugs" and any other contraband because i got stroppy with them LOL

[glegolo]

There are these guys you meet in life that NEVER will admit that they need help. They rather buy help from a laywer, or they rather buy their VISA and or extensions at one of all these crocked "agents" all over this country.... They are so full of that crap, so there is no chance in hell to be friends with them nor socialize with them.

NOT to see the use of being prepared by the knowledge i.e. of this forum, is not only really stupid, it is so dumb so only a fool would fall into that trap.A fool that is so full of himself..

Thank you for the chance of getting help here, we all knows exactly that there is a "up to the officer" in every damn case, so we counts on that and expects that.

Like a baby he cries out "no I wont ask I wont ask, I can do that, I can do that.. and finally pay like 30.000 baht just to get an unlegal extension of stay, hammer his breast how clever he is....

No thank you, that kind of human is not my kind of human..

Glegolo

[Kitsune]

Because Thailand still pretends to be a democracy, and in a democracy the law is the same everywhere for everyone.

Now all we have to have a vague idea of what's going on and where, is this forum.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Kitsune

[gk10002000]

One suspects if a punter starts pushing extracts from immigration law in the face IO anywhere in world, expect a hard time off them even if the punter is right, these people are in authority and it really winds them up when people get stroppy with them waving an english language extract in the face of a Thai immigration guy may not be the smartest move

I learned my lesson with customs guy in my own country over import of personal effects after being out the country for more than 12 months no import tax was due per the law, i was right, he was wrong trying to charge me, but it didnt stop them holding at customs for nearly 3 hours all by belongings unpacked on a table, they were squeezing the toothpaste out the tube looking for "drugs" and any other contraband because i got stroppy with them LOL

Ha ha. Well stated. The only time I was ever "randomly" pulled aside was once when I returned home to the USA from Thailand after a 30 day stay. The immigration guy at Dallas Fort Worth didn't like that I only had my carry on for such a long trip. I said, I wasn't aware more bags were needed in order to return to my home in the USA. I then said: "They do have laundries over there you know". He then got madder and said where are your souvenirs? I said if people want souvenirs, they can pay and go take the 20 hour flights. He really didn't like that. So they took me aside. A low paying under-educated guy went through my dozen items, 7 shirts/T-shirts, bathing suit, two pairs of shorts, u-trou, empty toiletry kit except for tooth brush and clippers (I purposely toss out all liquids before flying for simplicity), one Pattaya beach towel. He got mad when he found nothing. He even yelled at me as I stood there with my hands in my pockets! I said I will stand however I want. I am not interfering with what you are doing. So much for me being an Eagle Scout, Mom and Apple Pie up bringing, Ex US Air Force Officer, holder of current security clearances, working in the Defense Industry, etc.

[Soutpeel]

Because Thailand still pretends to be a democracy, and in a democracy the law is the same everywhere for everyone.

Now all we have to have a vague idea of what's going on and where, is this forum.

Surely your not the naive to believe that in real life, even in " fully fledged" democracies its not true, but nice try at the Thai bash none the less

[Old Croc]

I laugh at people who think it is clever to smart mouth Customs/Immigration staff at airports.

These officers have plenty of time, perhaps their full shift, to painstakingly go through the luggage of passengers who upset them. After getting off a long flight I just want to get out of the airport and head home.

I'm not advocating obsequiousness, just suggesting you let the guys do their job without having to put up with crap from idiots.

[Jip99]

They do it because sometimes, if not often it helps to be informed. One shouldn't just show up not knowing anything about the rules or policies or laws. Need someplace to start. Then if things look cockeyed, at least you can prepare your argument. It certainly wouldn't be a good idea to try to argue for something that is clearly against what is written.

thats preparation and pre-planning,and I agree with you, but not what I was referring to, in my first line I am referring to "at the time" when they hit the problem etc and then look for a loop hole to run through which just wont work, that's the point I am referring to.

That wasn't clear from the original post. I can now agree that awareness and preparation is key to trying to satisfy the rules and regulations that the immigration officers are working to.

I think the recent denial of entry for someone probably prompted your post and in cases like these (and others) it is no use trying to tell an IO they are wrong.

A slightly broader issue is the elasticity applied to those rules that we are trying to prepare for. It is frustrating to have spent time in preparing for something only to find that the rule changed (or has been re-interpreted) yesterday.

[Soutpeel]

One suspects if a punter starts pushing extracts from immigration law in the face IO anywhere in world, expect a hard time off them even if the punter is right, these people are in authority and it really winds them up when people get stroppy with them waving an english language extract in the face of a Thai immigration guy may not be the smartest move

I learned my lesson with customs guy in my own country over import of personal effects after being out the country for more than 12 months no import tax was due per the law, i was right, he was wrong trying to charge me, but it didnt stop them holding at customs for nearly 3 hours all by belongings unpacked on a table, they were squeezing the toothpaste out the tube looking for "drugs" and any other contraband because i got stroppy with them LOL

Ha ha. Well stated. The only time I was ever "randomly" pulled aside was once when I returned home to the USA from Thailand after a 30 day stay. The immigration guy at Dallas Fort Worth didn't like that I only had my carry on for such a long trip. I said, I wasn't aware more bags were needed in order to return to my home in the USA. I then said: "They do have laundries over there you know". He then got madder and said where are your souvenirs? I said if people want souvenirs, they can pay and go take the 20 hour flights. He really didn't like that. So they took me aside. A low paying under-educated guy went through my dozen items, 7 shirts/T-shirts, bathing suit, two pairs of shorts, u-trou, empty toiletry kit except for tooth brush and clippers (I purposely toss out all liquids before flying for simplicity), one Pattaya beach towel. He got mad when he found nothing. He even yelled at me as I stood there with my hands in my pockets! I said I will stand however I want. I am not interfering with what you are doing. So much for me being an Eagle Scout, Mom and Apple Pie up bringing, Ex US Air Force Officer, holder of current security clearances, working in the Defense Industry, etc.

I used to work in one particular country and myself and a group of other guys used to get rousted by customs eveytime we came through the airport, just because they could and had small man syndrome

so we used to put all our clean clothes in plastic bags in the suit case and save up all our dirty underwear and unwashed sweaty socks and other "nasties" we had and pile it all on top of the clean clothes and make the fkers dig through our dirty underpants and minging socks

[Gonsalviz]

Apparently your travels only include Thailand.

It would be better described as Asia and trust me there are many places worse than Thailand. In fact, I'd say most are worse.

SK and Japan have some peculiarities. Singapore immigration is ok but they do have some strange laws.

Thailand's immediate neighbors (Laos not so much) are getting really strange.

Try the Middle East sometime.

Save your opinions until you have something more than a grudge.

[willyumiii]

Because Thailand still pretends to be a democracy, and in a democracy the law is the same everywhere for everyone.

Now all we have to have a vague idea of what's going on and where, is this forum.

There are NO democracies in the world.

All of those who claim to be a democracy are pretending.

Can you name one country that is a real democracy?

I think not.

[ksamuiguy]

Never a problem or bribe in over 40 years in "The Kingdom".

Know the rules, have the right paper work, smile and Keep Your Mouth Shut.

[hanuman2543]

Because Thailand still pretends to be a democracy, and in a democracy the law is the same everywhere for everyone.

Now all we have to have a vague idea of what's going on and where, is this forum.

There are NO democracies in the world.

All of those who claim to be a democracy are pretending.

Can you name one country that is a real democracy?

I think not.

Switzerland

[overherebc]

It's not just Thailand. I was told by an airline check in Jonny no Stars before he even looked at my passport, in UK, that I must have a holiday visa before I was allowed to go past that point. When I stated I had a Multi O he asked, what is that ? I showed him and the reply was, how am I supposed to know what that is ?

At that point I just shut up and started talking to my wife, after a minute he checked us in and we went through.

It's just a case of a lttle knowledge is a dangerous thing anywhere.

[glegolo]

You refer to something called "Jonny no Stars",, plse , what is that or maybe where is that??

thnks

Glegolo

[Tomtomtom69]

Apparently your travels only include Thailand.

It would be better described as Asia and trust me there are many places worse than Thailand. In fact, I'd say most are worse.

SK and Japan have some peculiarities. Singapore immigration is ok but they do have some strange laws.

Thailand's immediate neighbors (Laos not so much) are getting really strange.

Try the Middle East sometime.

Save your opinions until you have something more than a grudge.

You're right. However, Vietnam, Myanmar, Cambodia and of course Laos are very much hassle free. None of them care about you residing in their country on consecutive tourist visas although Cambodia offers a 1-year extendable business visa anyone can get and usually that's what foreigners reside on irrespective of what they are doing in Cambodia.

Vietnam is a pain in the ass at customs if you want to bring a foreign registered vehicle in even just for a short holiday (and you can forget about driving a Thai registered vehicle into Vietnam as they are prohibited from entering) but I guess that's due to the communist paranoia about foreigners driving their own vehicles and causing accidents. Not to mention selling them and avoiding import taxes. No such issues driving a locally registered vehicle and for any other encounters with Vietnamese customs but they really don't want anyone driving a vehicle into their country.

I've met the occasional grumpy immigration or customs officer at various Thai border crossings both on departure and on arrival. It's usually quite easy to sweet talk them if you speak Thai and usually they would suddenly become nicer as a result. Their attitude changes completely once they know you speak their language. "Farang" who still only speak English after living in the Kingdom for say 14 years are not going to be given much slack and will be treated like newly arrived tourists. If there's ever a problem immigration will quickly try to rid themselves of a non-Thai speaking foreigner. Whereas a Thai speaker is obviously assumed to know a thing or two about Thailand and is usually left alone. Of course all bets are off if you've overstayed your visa but for most normal encounters it helps.

[overherebc]

To Glegolo

Johnny no Stars.

Someone who has worked somewhere for a long time, eg, fast food restaurant but has never had any recognition for work because is basically not capable of going any further in their chosen profession.

Think MacDonalds for examples.

☺

[glegolo]

To Glegolo

Johnny no Stars.

Someone who has worked somewhere for a long time, eg, fast food restaurant but has never had any recognition for work because is basically not capable of going any further in their chosen profession.

Think MacDonalds for examples.

☺

Thank you for explanation..

Glegolo