Thailand Live Saturday 12 October 2024

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
New charter could completely alter power structure
ATTAYUTH BOOTSRIPOOM

BANGKOK: -- THERE have been attempts to have members of the National Reform Council (NRC) vote down the draft constitution. Such moves have been made openly by some NRC members and political parties such as the Democrats and Pheu Thai, from opposite camps.

Also, a rumour has been spread that some men in uniform want to see this draft charter being voted down. According to the rumour mill, they simply want this current government, led by Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha, to stay on in power. And they want the draft to be rewritten in a way that makes life even more difficult for their political enemies.

However, judging from the latest developments, the likelihood of the NRC voting against the draft is almost zero. It is because the National Council for Peace and Order has made it clear that it is pleased with the final draft made by the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC).

The NCPO seems to agree with a new political structure set by the new constitution, which makes it more difficult for political parties to become strong. The electoral system is designed to facilitate formation of a coalition government. A parliamentary system in which one political party is dominant will be a thing of the past. And with multiple-party partnerships and bargaining, coalition governments will be weak.

Moreover, a coalition government under the new constitution will face strict and tough scrutiny by groups who are not directly elected by voters. That will make it difficult for governing politicians to run the country in a constructive way. Running the country will be just a routine job for them.

An unprecedented organisation will be formed under the new charter. It is called the National Strategic Reform and Reconciliation Commission (NSRRC), whose members also include commanders-in-chief of the armed forces. The panel will have power greater than that of a government. For example, the NSRRC is empowered to propose plans for reform and reconciliation.

Despite disagreement by a ruling government, the panel could confirm its plans with support from at least two-thirds of its members, which makes it compulsory for that government to comply. This is really power greater than that of a government.

Also, the panel has the power to take control of the country in times of crisis. According to the new constitution's final draft, the NSRRC's acts are considered legal. For critics, this provision is termed "staging a coup under the constitution".

With those provisions, many observers agree that the constitution drafters could already have "solved the problems" given by the NCPO. If this draft comes into force, it will result in completely changing the country's power structure. It should be noted that none of the powers-that-be have spoken against this final draft by the CDC.

Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam, who is in charge of the government's legal affairs, warned recently that by voting down the draft charter and allowing the constitution-drafting process to start anew, the NRC would plunge the country into uncertainty. "We don't know if people like it that way. We don't know about new drafters of the constitution and their thoughts. We don't know what a new draft will look like - or if it will be even worse [than the current one]. The solution exists, when the NRC votes on September 6," he said.

A key NCPO supporter, Suthep Thaugsuban from the People's Democratic Reform Committee, threw his weight behind the draft charter. He said the final version was good enough for a national referendum. For the veteran politician, different provisions in the new charter could help ensure that national reforms would be implemented.

Judging from the latest developments by the parties involved, the draft constitution is likely to sail easily through the NRC this coming Sunday and is destined for a national referendum.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/New-charter-could-completely-alter-power-structure-30268026.html


-- The Nation 2015-09-03

[BSJ]

Fear not fellow posters. There may be troubled waters ahead but things will workout for the best......

Trust me, I've been around for many many years!

[Somtamnication]

It has been altered yearly since 1932. Nothing new here.

[EnzoRippo]

New charter could completely alter power structure​

This is the aim. It's a way to legalize the coup d'etat.

[jerojero]

Charter simply allows the military to step in "legally" at any time during civilian rule, making a sham of the electoral process and democracy. Ruling elite continue unfettered, this time among the military going forward under a thin guise of democratic process.

[Seastallion]

" the new constitution, which makes it more difficult for political parties to become strong. The electoral system is designed to facilitate formation of a coalition government."

Could be good, but they had better be careful....too much reliance on coalitions can make for weak government. Look at Israel, look at NZ, look at a few other countries.

In Israel's case, king-makers are often radical that use their bargaining chips for their own radical agendas. In NZ's case, it makes for weak, try-to-please-everybody inaction. In Thailand's case, with it's ingrained corruption, it could end up simply being hogs at the trough.

Look at the world, study in-depth. Learn from other's mistakes.

[chainarong]

If one didn't know any better feathering their nest would possibly be a kind assumption of the performance so far and the charter will enforce that opinion, the people or more to the point students, kicked their arse big time before, history has been known to repeat itself , but times have changed and so do people , either way the future of Thailand maybe lie in the hands of a few , who at this present time might not know it yet.

[Emster23]

I would pick a different phrase from "alter power structure". If anything it "reinforces power structure". Basically gives power elite permission in writing to do what they have been doing for 80 years, and puts elections on same level of power as grade school class president.

[bamnutsak]

Vaguely reminiscent of a "Guided Democracy" (Lippman, 1922, theory - Sukharno, Indonesia, 1957, practice)

"...is a democratic government with increased autocracy. Governments are legitimized by elections that are free and fair but emptied of substantive meaning in their ability to change the state's policies, motives, and goals."

Hopefully the Indonesian path is not followed?

[MZurf]

I would pick a different phrase from "alter power structure". If anything it "reinforces power structure". Basically gives power elite permission in writing to do what they have been doing for 80 years, and puts elections on same level of power as grade school class president.

Reinforcing "traditional" power structures sounds about right. And in doing so dispelling any silly notions that the tanned masses outside Bangkok should have any say in how to run the country - and all done for the glory of the nation and the happiness of it's people!!

[LannaGuy]

Vote for charter = Army retains power and will threaten governments whenever it pleases

Vote against charter = Army stays until it gets it's way (see above)

Military Juntas are NOT a good thing, accountable to no one but the elite 'few'.

How anyone coming from a democratic country cannot see this is beyond me. Yet we have a few on TVF who believe that the gun wins and is what Thailand needs

[bamnutsak]

How anyone coming from a democratic country cannot see this is beyond me. Yet we have a few on TVF who believe that the gun wins and is what Thailand needs

They've had plenty of the yellow Kool-Aid and think that the "father knows best" approach will work, again, eventually, maybe.

[MZurf]

"... we have a few on TVF who believe that the gun wins and is what Thailand needs"

And this despite all the evidence to the contrary (20ish coups in modern times). Sad, sickening and makes you question their mental and moral capabilities. Edited September 3, 2015 by MZurf

[heybruce]

"An unprecedented organisation will be formed under the new charter. It is called the National Strategic Reform and Reconciliation Commission (NSRRC), whose members also include commanders-in-chief of the armed forces. The panel will have power greater than that of a government. For example, the NSRRC is empowered to propose plans for reform and reconciliation.

Despite disagreement by a ruling government, the panel could confirm its plans with support from at least two-thirds of its members, which makes it compulsory for that government to comply. This is really power greater than that of a government.

Also, the panel has the power to take control of the country in times of crisis. According to the new constitution's final draft, the NSRRC's acts are considered legal. For critics, this provision is termed "staging a coup under the constitution"."

The constitution will give an unconvincing veneer of democracy while putting all real power in the hands of an unelected panel. Is anyone surprised?

[elgordo38]

It has been altered yearly since 1932. Nothing new here.

Yes there is they have been learning by their mistakes over the ensuing charters. This one no doubt will be the iron maiden charter.

[Jon Wetherall]

I'm not sure it really matters. I think the decisions have been taken already that will lead to a civil war, after which, the current government and its sponsors will be gone forever. Prem will die soon so he won't matter, and many others will join him in oblivion.

Thailand badly needs organic change. When Thais who presently only recognise what they don't like without recognising how to change it finally wake up, that changfe will begin, but the Thai apathy will have to go first.

Until then Thailand will slip further down the slope it has voluntarily mounted. The economy will continue to decline, along with tourism. Human rights will be continue to be eroded in search of someone's personal wet-dream, and it will go on until Thais finally say 'enough'. Many foreigners will leave in search of strong barstools and cheap prostitutes elsewhere, Vietnam probably, maybe Laos, nowhere else seems to want them which is why they czame to Thailand in the first [lace. There will be few foreigners incoming to replace them - to nobody's distress.

All in all, the glory days of Thailand seem to be pretty much in the toilet. Personally I can't see the current or any government in the next 10 years doing what will have to be done to get it out of the toilet.

Just a personal view.

[Jonmarleesco]

'... a coalition government under the new constitution will face strict and tough scrutiny ... (that) will make it difficult for governing politicians to run the country in a constructive way' I'm not sure anyone can recall when an elected government last ran the country in a constructive way. For the most part, they've been destructive in their approach.

[Thai at Heart]

From a democratic point of view how can anyone support a charter where a committee of generals sit on top waiting to legally jump in at a moments notice. Politics is the confrontation of ideas and policies. That is what it is.

[Jonmarleesco]

Vote for charter = Army retains power and will threaten governments whenever it pleases

Vote against charter = Army stays until it gets it's way (see above)

Military Juntas are NOT a good thing, accountable to no one but the elite 'few'.

How anyone coming from a democratic country cannot see this is beyond me. Yet we have a few on TVF who believe that the gun wins and is what Thailand needs

If you could see progress being made in getting the country up and running again, during the chaos of the last demonstrations and a government that was, at best, impotent, you're a better man than I. Let's be frank, Prayut held off getting the army involved numerous times prior to the coup, and had the PTP and P.M. Yingluck proved more adept in their handling of the crisis, there might well never have been a coup.

But there was, and the country now has to deal with the resulting issues, including the distinct possibility of a much tempered version of democracy.

[Thai at Heart]

Vote for charter = Army retains power and will threaten governments whenever it pleases

Vote against charter = Army stays until it gets it's way (see above)

Military Juntas are NOT a good thing, accountable to no one but the elite 'few'.

How anyone coming from a democratic country cannot see this is beyond me. Yet we have a few on TVF who believe that the gun wins and is what Thailand needs

If you could see progress being made in getting the country up and running again, during the chaos of the last demonstrations and a government that was, at best, impotent, you're a better man than I. Let's be frank, Prayut held off getting the army involved numerous times prior to the coup, and had the PTP and P.M. Yingluck proved more adept in their handling of the crisis, there might well never have been a coup.

But there was, and the country now has to deal with the resulting issues, including the distinct possibility of a much tempered version of democracy.

Suthep and his cronies were permitted to derail the election. It was disgusting to watch. Either Thailand gets in with democracy warts and all, or they will continue to lurch from coup to coup.

This involves more than just elections of course. God knows writing a tight and concise constitution would be a start so that it doesn't need endless interpretation of what it means in practice. I note they just realised that the vote of the constitution itself has been slated to need a majority of all voters....

Who writes this incompetent unworkable stuff.

Reform the judiciary, legal system and squish corruption and things might get set up for after the new constitution comes in. But it won't be done.

How's that coming along under the junta?

[MZurf]

Vote for charter = Army retains power and will threaten governments whenever it pleases

Vote against charter = Army stays until it gets it's way (see above)

Military Juntas are NOT a good thing, accountable to no one but the elite 'few'.

How anyone coming from a democratic country cannot see this is beyond me. Yet we have a few on TVF who believe that the gun wins and is what Thailand needs

If you could see progress being made in getting the country up and running again, during the chaos of the last demonstrations and a government that was, at best, impotent, you're a better man than I. Let's be frank, Prayut held off getting the army involved numerous times prior to the coup, and had the PTP and P.M. Yingluck proved more adept in their handling of the crisis, there might well never have been a coup.

But there was, and the country now has to deal with the resulting issues, including the distinct possibility of a much tempered version of democracy.

I think that is a very naive belief. There is no way the group presently in power would let anyone else hold the reigns during the upcoming transition.

[h90]

Charter simply allows the military to step in "legally" at any time during civilian rule, making a sham of the electoral process and democracy. Ruling elite continue unfettered, this time among the military going forward under a thin guise of democratic process.

"at any time during civilian rule war" And actually they kicked out the ruling elite.....

[Thai at Heart]

" the new constitution, which makes it more difficult for political parties to become strong. The electoral system is designed to facilitate formation of a coalition government."

Could be good, but they had better be careful....too much reliance on coalitions can make for weak government. Look at Israel, look at NZ, look at a few other countries.

In Israel's case, king-makers are often radical that use their bargaining chips for their own radical agendas. In NZ's case, it makes for weak, try-to-please-everybody inaction. In Thailand's case, with it's ingrained corruption, it could end up simply being hogs at the trough.

Look at the world, study in-depth. Learn from other's mistakes.

I like your last sentence. 17 constitutions and counting.

[h90]

Vote for charter = Army retains power and will threaten governments whenever it pleases

Vote against charter = Army stays until it gets it's way (see above)

Military Juntas are NOT a good thing, accountable to no one but the elite 'few'.

How anyone coming from a democratic country cannot see this is beyond me. Yet we have a few on TVF who believe that the gun wins and is what Thailand needs

You are right and now please explain how a dictatorship under Thaksin would be better...... Not exactly the hero of democracy as well.

[Thai at Heart]

Vote for charter = Army retains power and will threaten governments whenever it pleases

Vote against charter = Army stays until it gets it's way (see above)

Military Juntas are NOT a good thing, accountable to no one but the elite 'few'.

How anyone coming from a democratic country cannot see this is beyond me. Yet we have a few on TVF who believe that the gun wins and is what Thailand needs

You are right and now please explain how a dictatorship under Thaksin would be better...... Not exactly the hero of democracy as well.

The facility is always there to change a govt at the ballot box.

Short circuiting the whole thing with orchestrated protests and coups doesn't help in the long run.

[Siripon]

How anyone coming from a democratic country cannot see this is beyond me. Yet we have a few on TVF who believe that the gun wins and is what Thailand needs

They've had plenty of the yellow Kool-Aid and think that the "father knows best" approach will work, again, eventually, maybe.

Until education improves, and it is, but time is required, maybe another 20 years, then 'father knows best' is better than 'the godfather knows best' of the Thaksin era.

[heybruce]

How anyone coming from a democratic country cannot see this is beyond me. Yet we have a few on TVF who believe that the gun wins and is what Thailand needs

They've had plenty of the yellow Kool-Aid and think that the "father knows best" approach will work, again, eventually, maybe.

Until education improves, and it is, but time is required, maybe another 20 years, then 'father knows best' is better than 'the godfather knows best' of the Thaksin era.

Do you think Prayut knows best? Do you think the military will prepare the Thai people for democracy by improving education? Are you advocating 20 years of military rule?

If you answer yes to any one of these questions you are in a small minority.

[Gonsalviz]

" the new constitution, which makes it more difficult for political parties to become strong. The electoral system is designed to facilitate formation of a coalition government."

Could be good, but they had better be careful....too much reliance on coalitions can make for weak government. Look at Israel, look at NZ, look at a few other countries.

In Israel's case, king-makers are often radical that use their bargaining chips for their own radical agendas. In NZ's case, it makes for weak, try-to-please-everybody inaction. In Thailand's case, with it's ingrained corruption, it could end up simply being hogs at the trough.

Look at the world, study in-depth. Learn from other's mistakes.

Oz too.

[Gonsalviz]

I would hope so.

[h90]

Vote for charter = Army retains power and will threaten governments whenever it pleases

Vote against charter = Army stays until it gets it's way (see above)

Military Juntas are NOT a good thing, accountable to no one but the elite 'few'.

How anyone coming from a democratic country cannot see this is beyond me. Yet we have a few on TVF who believe that the gun wins and is what Thailand needs

You are right and now please explain how a dictatorship under Thaksin would be better...... Not exactly the hero of democracy as well.

The facility is always there to change a govt at the ballot box.

Short circuiting the whole thing with orchestrated protests and coups doesn't help in the long run.

Thaksin did take care of that already, when making the voting boots (is that the name in English) that way that everyone can see who you vote for. Only allow his stamps for voting and let taxi driver transport the boxes (1 taxi driver alone with the full box).

Of course beside the full scale vote buying.

So no you can't change something on the ballot box. Or why didn't the East Germans vote away Honecker or why don't the North Koreans vote away Kim Jong-un? Because such people twist the democracy till you can't change things at the ballot box anymore.

the protests and the coups exist only because police and more juridical system isn't working. Currently I can't see the military trying to repair that, so it won't help in the long run....as you said. But it helped in the short time frame.