border officer counting numbers of visas and taking notes

[jacksam]

Exclude are applications after the bkk bomb. Rightly so io have become more suspicious

Edited September 5, 2015 by jacksam

[elviajero]

A/ People WERE hassled before, you just chose to dismissed them

B/ It's in the forum rules, we are not allowed to be negative, so negatives comments are erased and people discouraged to report negative experiences.

C/ So obviously the whole picture is distorted, to have a fairer picture and counterbalance it, you have to give more importance to each "negative" experience.

A. I know that people have always been on occasion hassled. I am only dismissing a 2nd hand report because it's incomplete and with the facts missing its worthless. Had it been reported first hand and the reason for denial known then bring it on.

B. I've no idea if Thai Visa erase reports. But why would they?

C. You're right the picture is distorted. But distorted because of a few negative reports. How many people enter through NK on TR's every day? 100's. How many that successful enter will report it. Probably none.

[eaglesflight]

I expect 3 TR visas would raise concern at any immigration border control point and at the discretion of the immigration official you can be refused entry.

I have seen it happen a few times recently.

You must carry the correct visa for which your intended stay reflects and quantifies.

Where did you see people being refused entry?

Clearly a lie unless he spends his spare time standing around at borders.

[tphut]

if a officer thinks that the entryes in your passport shows you are living here and you do not have the correct work, retirement or married visa, then he have the right to denie you entry to thailand.

he does not have to ask or anything it is totally up to him how many times shows you live here.

Luckey for the ones who misuse tourist visas and so on many officers are lazy and let the misuser come inside thailand, just remember every time you try to enter you are at the risk off being denied and if in the airport shipped home to your passport country.

[TheKnave]

land border?

where?

Sorry for that missing information.,

it was nong khai

Cheers

Nong Khai is best described as one of the well-known rogue Immigration offices. They have been further enabled by the currently elevated xenophobia surrounding the recent Ratchaprasong event.

Expect this and more in the coming days.

Uniform treatment at all Immigration offices would go a long way toward eliminating the legitimate grievances so often expressed here on TV.

[hawker9000]

I passed through Laos border nong khai earlier this week and same thing the guy wrote on each visa I'd previously had. Weird. Especially as my tourist visas are not back to back. I've been feeling weird about it as I'm worried now using my double entry visa in two months to go to Vietnam for a wedding. Nong khai border crossing no longer so great. I heard on the train two guys who were detained for an hour and asked a lot of questions. They are just backpacking through and crisscrossing Thailand to do so. Not working not long term...

The consulate is lovely to deal with the immigration post not so much. Who know what these numbers and marks are especially when I next go out and reenter Thailand?

Another worthless report I suppose? (sorry Lilyblue, I was talking to Elviajero)

Thanks for your input. It's greatly appreciated even though most people won't say so.

People are so discouraged to say anything negative about their experience that everything gets distorted.

Lilyblue: I suggest you put a picture of your passport here (hiding your name) to ask what these marks say,I am sure people will be able to help you.

Nope. Not worthless at all. The first hand experience from both the OP and @lilyblue is very useful for all to know.

Agreed. Not worthless at all. Some just love to go on about how visas (as opposed to the visa exempt entry) are supposedly hassle-free, and the hands-down answer to having problems with multiple visa exempt stamps. Then all of a sudden people start having problems with the so-recommended gold standard, visas, and, oops, then we're reminded that visas are no guarantee and they're now problematic, too. (And so the next line of defense will now be the elite thing <sigh> ) Anyway, first-person accounts like these ARE relevant and useful, though I agree, the more factual background included with such reports the better.

IMO, an arrival should have the opportunity to produce evidence of non-residence and non Thai-source income, if he has it, before being denied entry (not that this was a denied-entry story, though that of course is everyone's ultimate concern) because of the "suspicions" (read "caprice") of the IO. Does Thailand have the right to have its immigration officials behave this way? Yeap. Do travelers have the right to share news about it? You bet! Is this the place to do that? Obviously! (Yes, yes, yes - we know - it can happen anywhere. Thanks in advance for that worthless and irrelevant data point, but let's try & stay on topic.)

Edited September 5, 2015 by hawker9000

[tropo]

There was a report about 2 people not traveling together with a visa run company being refused entry in Nongkhai with a tourist visa. they were pulled out from the van....

"Q: Does anyone know how many you can actually have before refused entry, is there a magic number here?"

You cannot be denied entry for having any amount of TR's. There's no limit.

As we know having a visa doesn't give the right to enter. Do you know why they were refused?

You're a bit inconsistent. I'm sure that a border official is entitled to refuse entry to a person who has too many tourist visas if he suspects they may be working in Thailand.

[tropo]

land border?

where?

Sorry for that missing information.,

it was nong khai

Cheers

Nong Khai is best described as one of the well-known rogue Immigration offices. They have been further enabled by the currently elevated xenophobia surrounding the recent Ratchaprasong event.

Expect this and more in the coming days.

Uniform treatment at all Immigration offices would go a long way toward eliminating the legitimate grievances so often expressed here on TV.

You can only dream about that. I'd say few people are even aware of these inconsistencies UNLESS they frequent this forum.

[PlastikbinLina]

There is no limit on the number of tourist visa entries you can do.

Technically you're right but realistically it's hypothetical. The number of complaints I hear from travelers about being pulled aside and interrogated is on the increase and I hear a few are returned to the country they came in from. We discussed this before and as I suggest to those whose work requires them to frequently return and leave after a short time take plenty of evidence of assets here viz-a-viz bank accounts, property, spouse etc etc that should help facilitate their reentry.

Tourist who travel around SEA shouldn't be affected as it should be obvious to the IO by the number of entries in a PP.

[hawker9000]

There is no limit on the number of tourist visa entries you can do.

Technically you're right but realistically it's hypothetical. The number of complaints I hear from travelers about being pulled aside and interrogated is on the increase and I hear a few are returned to the country they came in from. We discussed this before and as I suggest to those whose work requires them to frequently return and leave after a short time take plenty of evidence of assets here viz-a-viz bank accounts, property, spouse etc etc that should help facilitate their reentry.

Tourist who travel around SEA shouldn't be affected as it should be obvious to the IO by the number of entries in a PP.

Yes, having such evidence would be the commonsense precaution to take. But TIT after all. What good does it do if you won't be allowed to present it by some chip-on-his-shoulder, juvenily driven IO not even bashful about saying he/she plays by his/her own rules? This kind of arrogance is on precisely the same level with shakedown-enabled Thong Lor police, and demands the widest possible publicity.

Again, how does one who's just been denied entry go about submitting an "appeal". ('Can't even take the 'Call xxx' thing seriously...) I sort of suspect it's something IOs stand around the water cooler on their breaks laughing about.

[elviajero]

"Q: Does anyone know how many you can actually have before refused entry, is there a magic number here?"

You cannot be denied entry for having any amount of TR's. There's no limit.

As we know having a visa doesn't give the right to enter. Do you know why they were refused?

You're a bit inconsistent. I'm sure that a border official is entitled to refuse entry to a person who has too many tourist visas if he suspects they may be working in Thailand.

Not at all. Entering is dependant on two things. Having a visa (or visa exemption) and not being excluded under the immigration act or regulation.

When a foreigner presents a visa the IO has final say (within law and regulation) about whether the person can enter and how long they can stay.

An IO is only authorised to deny entry within the law/regulation. There is no law/regulation limiting the number of TR entries. There is no law/regulation authorising an IO to deny entry because the foreigner has x amount of TR's.

Having several TR's is an indication that the foreigner may be working. If someone was denied, as in your example, it would be for illegal working and not for having many TR's.

[elviajero]

if a officer thinks that the entryes in your passport shows you are living here and you do not have the correct work, retirement or married visa, then he have the right to denie you entry to thailand. he does not have to ask or anything it is totally up to him how many times shows you live here.

Anyone can live here (stay) with any visa (visa exemption). You cannot be denied entry for living here. The only restriction is the time given to stay based on your visa.

[praat]

Hello

I just re-entered thailand on a double entry tourist visa

The officer at the land crossing, counting all my tourist visas, and made number on them. he wrote number on each visa in my passport and wrote the number as well on the arrival card.

i have 2 in total (not including the new one i just got) and some NON/o Business, which he excluded from his count. When he counted, he didnt take into consideration if they where back to back, which they are not. The 2 visa i have, is from 2013 and 2015 and was counted and noted as 1 and 2

I admit i didnt ask him anything, queue was quite long and he didnt seem to be in a mood to talk about anything

Q: Does anyone know how many you can actually have before refused entry, is there a magic number here?

Should i be worried about my next time? (which will be third back to back visa)

Cheers

[praat]

First time to reply. I work directly with Thai Military. New law can only enter Thailand 4 times with tourist visa. Will take some time but believe me it will happen.

Military want to crack down on people working in Thailand with tourist visa.

I were one on tourist visa.

My advice start now to make a plan for a work permit.

[elviajero]

First time to reply. I work directly with Thai Military. New law can only enter Thailand 4 times with tourist visa. Will take some time but believe me it will happen.

Military want to crack down on people working in Thailand with tourist visa.

I were one on tourist visa.

My advice start now to make a plan for a work permit.

That would make sense as to why they have started counting the previous visas. And if it happens at least everyone knows where they stand.

[tropo]

"Q: Does anyone know how many you can actually have before refused entry, is there a magic number here?"

You cannot be denied entry for having any amount of TR's. There's no limit.

As we know having a visa doesn't give the right to enter. Do you know why they were refused?

You're a bit inconsistent. I'm sure that a border official is entitled to refuse entry to a person who has too many tourist visas if he suspects they may be working in Thailand.

Not at all. Entering is dependant on two things. Having a visa (or visa exemption) and not being excluded under the immigration act or regulation.

When a foreigner presents a visa the IO has final say (within law and regulation) about whether the person can enter and how long they can stay.

An IO is only authorised to deny entry within the law/regulation. There is no law/regulation limiting the number of TR entries. There is no law/regulation authorising an IO to deny entry because the foreigner has x amount of TR's.

Having several TR's is an indication that the foreigner may be working. If someone was denied, as in your example, it would be for illegal working and not for having many TR's.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. The immigration officer at the border operates under immigration policies, not the letter of any law. He can easily make a judgement call without proof if he thinks that it is possible that the person may be working illegally.

There is no law governing the number of tourist visas one can have, but there's certainly policy for the IO at the border to scrutinize closely anyone coming in with too many tourist visas and/or visa exempt entries and make a judgement call.

There is no court of law at the border. What the IO says goes and there's nothing that can be done.

For example, there's no law dictating that different nationalities should be treated differently at the border with the same tourist visa in hand, but they most certainly are. People from poorer nations will be scrutinized more closely.

Edited September 6, 2015 by tropo

[vento]

First time to reply. I work directly with Thai Military. New law can only enter Thailand 4 times with tourist visa. Will take some time but believe me it will happen.

Military want to crack down on people working in Thailand with tourist visa.

I were one on tourist visa.

My advice start now to make a plan for a work permit.

That would make sense as to why they have started counting the previous visas. And if it happens at least everyone knows where they stand.

I should note that my number of tourist visas was noted at the arrival card as well.. not sure if they are punched into a computer.

[DanceAllNight]

First time to reply. I work directly with Thai Military. New law can only enter Thailand 4 times with tourist visa. Will take some time but believe me it will happen.

Military want to crack down on people working in Thailand with tourist visa.

I were one on tourist visa.

My advice start now to make a plan for a work permit.

This rule is understandable and fair, however, they should enforce with with consistency and not just leave it to the discretion of the IO at that moment.

And when this does go in effect, will they count your previous visas, or the ones you got after the new law was put into place?

Furthermore, what does that mean, you can only enter 4 times? 2 double entry tourist visas? 4 single entry tourists visas? And in what time span? If you enter 4 times in a year, then come back in another year or so, are you still allowed to enter? And what if you fly in/out of the airport and not travel by land?

Edited September 6, 2015 by DanceAllNight

[TheKnave]

land border?

where?

Sorry for that missing information.,

it was nong khai

Cheers

Nong Khai is best described as one of the well-known rogue Immigration offices. They have been further enabled by the currently elevated xenophobia surrounding the recent Ratchaprasong event.

Expect this and more in the coming days.

Uniform treatment at all Immigration offices would go a long way toward eliminating the legitimate grievances so often expressed here on TV.

You can only dream about that. I'd say few people are even aware of these inconsistencies UNLESS they frequent this forum.

Or unless, as in my case, they have lived in two or more jurisdictions and have experienced the widely differing treatment first hand.

[thai006]

I just hope they let the people free who have non 0 visa like me lol

[chrisinth]

First time to reply. I work directly with Thai Military. New law can only enter Thailand 4 times with tourist visa. Will take some time but believe me it will happen.

Military want to crack down on people working in Thailand with tourist visa.

I were one on tourist visa.

My advice start now to make a plan for a work permit.

Is this a change to immigration laws or is this being bundled under article 44?

[elviajero]

"Q: Does anyone know how many you can actually have before refused entry, is there a magic number here?"

You cannot be denied entry for having any amount of TR's. There's no limit.

As we know having a visa doesn't give the right to enter. Do you know why they were refused?

You're a bit inconsistent. I'm sure that a border official is entitled to refuse entry to a person who has too many tourist visas if he suspects they may be working in Thailand.

Not at all. Entering is dependant on two things. Having a visa (or visa exemption) and not being excluded under the immigration act or regulation.

When a foreigner presents a visa the IO has final say (within law and regulation) about whether the person can enter and how long they can stay.

An IO is only authorised to deny entry within the law/regulation. There is no law/regulation limiting the number of TR entries. There is no law/regulation authorising an IO to deny entry because the foreigner has x amount of TR's.

Having several TR's is an indication that the foreigner may be working. If someone was denied, as in your example, it would be for illegal working and not for having many TR's.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. The immigration officer at the border operates under immigration policies, not the letter of any law. He can easily make a judgement call without proof if he thinks that it is possible that the person may be working illegally.

There is no law governing the number of tourist visas one can have, but there's certainly policy for the IO at the border to scrutinize closely anyone coming in with too many tourist visas and/or visa exempt entries and make a judgement call.

There is no court of law at the border. What the IO says goes and there's nothing that can be done.

For example, there's no law dictating that different nationalities should be treated differently at the border with the same tourist visa in hand, but they most certainly are. People from poorer nations will be scrutinized more closely.

I dont disagree with the content of your last three paragraphs and if you read what I previously wrote you would know that.

"The immigration officer at the border operates under immigration policies, not the letter of any law."

However, this not so much!

Immigration policy is decided by the Immigration Act (law) and Ministerial Regulations. All border crossings operate under these rules. If you disagree then please let me know which body dictate "immigration policies".

Individual border crossings may have their own procedures for weeding out people that shouldn't be entering, and they can target/scrutinise whomever they want, but they should still be acting within the framework of the rules.

The fact that some IO's sometimes act outside their authority is well known, but IMO they are a minority and unless things dramatically change it's nothing for people to worry about because it's being going on forever. 1,000's enter through NK every month and a few people having previous TR's counted and two people allegedly being denied for reasons unknown is not the end of days.

IMO people should focus on the positive more than the negative. If we start getting first hand multiple reports from TV members being denied entry with a valid TR then we can panic! One report would be a start!

Edited September 6, 2015 by elviajero

[elviajero]

First time to reply. I work directly with Thai Military. New law can only enter Thailand 4 times with tourist visa. Will take some time but believe me it will happen.

Military want to crack down on people working in Thailand with tourist visa.

I were one on tourist visa.

My advice start now to make a plan for a work permit.

Is this a change to immigration laws or is this being bundled under article 44?

The law wouldn't need changing. They could bring it in with Ministerial Regulation.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Oh the only border in the world where you need a cancellation letter from your school to exit the country, that says it all.

Vientiane has been a huge visa run destination for too long, officers are getting moody.

I personally avoid that place now.

Yep, I second that. After my last visit there my advice on this forum is avoid Vientiane at all cost.

[tropo]

I dont disagree with the content of your last three paragraphs and if you read what I previously wrote you would know that.

"The immigration officer at the border operates under immigration policies, not the letter of any law."

However, this not so much!

Immigration policy is decided by the Immigration Act (law) and Ministerial Regulations. All border crossings operate under these rules. If you disagree then please let me know which body dictate "immigration policies".

Individual border crossings may have their own procedures for weeding out people that shouldn't be entering, and they can target/scrutinise whomever they want, but they should still be acting within the framework of the rules.

The fact that some IO's sometimes act outside their authority is well known, but IMO they are a minority and unless things dramatically change it's nothing for people to worry about because it's being going on forever. 1,000's enter through NK every month and a few people having previous TR's counted and two people allegedly being denied for reasons unknown is not the end of days.

IMO people should focus on the positive more than the negative. If we start getting first hand multiple reports from TV members being denied entry with a valid TR then we can panic! One report would be a start!

People can get into a lot of trouble listening to advice such as yours on here.

My Filipino gf (at the time) was always treated differently to me at the border, airport, immigration office, consulates etc. We had matching tourist visas and entry stamps for 4 years.

At one time they were counting her visa-exempt entry stamps, but they didn't count mine. She'd get a warning stamp of too many tourist visas whereas I didn't. One time she was refused a tourist visa whereas I was given one.

All actions on tourist visas etc are policy decisions and they vary a lot from border post to border post and from consulate to consulate. They have no written code to say exactly how many one is allowed or that it is unlimited.

You made an statement in an earlier and now it seems you're trying to hard to retract. On one had you stated that there is no limit on tourist visas, and then on the other hand you stated that a tourist visa doesn't give anyone a right to enter.

If you don't agree, then let's just leave it at that. Let people decide for themselves.

[oncearugge]

Oh the only border in the world where you need a cancellation letter from your school to exit the country, that says it all.

Vientiane has been a huge visa run destination for too long, officers are getting moody.

I personally avoid that place now.

Yep, I second that. After my last visit there my advice on this forum is avoid Vientiane at all cost.

If Vientiane is to be avoided then tell the reasons why .

Please also say what your preferred alternative is .............

[elviajero]

People can get into a lot of trouble listening to advice such as yours on here.

You made an statement in an earlier and now it seems you're trying to hard to retract. On one had you stated that there is no limit on tourist visas, and then on the other hand you stated that a tourist visa doesn't give anyone a right to enter.

Exactly how could anyone get in to trouble!

If you can't understand the difference between these two statements then there's no point to our discussion.

"there is no limit on tourist visas"

"a tourist visa doesn't give anyone a right to enter"

[tropo]

People can get into a lot of trouble listening to advice such as yours on here.

You made an statement in an earlier and now it seems you're trying to hard to retract. On one had you stated that there is no limit on tourist visas, and then on the other hand you stated that a tourist visa doesn't give anyone a right to enter.

Exactly how could anyone get in to trouble!

If you can't understand the difference between these two statements then there's no point to our discussion.

"there is no limit on tourist visas"

"a tourist visa doesn't give anyone a right to enter"

It amounts to the same thing. They are double checking tourist visa holders at border entry points, so there is a practical limit on tourist visas for most people. If that were not so they would just be letting everyone straight through with a tourist visa, no questions asked and these forum threads would not exist.

Regarding people getting into trouble. I already alluded to it by explaining how they treat different nationalities differently. I got into trouble because I was confident my gf would get a tourist visa and spent the time and money travelling to Laos. What I should have realized is that one shoe does not fit all and that most people who post on here giving visa advice are from the wealthier nations and they are not treated the same.

I would think that discrimination based on nationality would be policy decision, not a written law?

You keep citing Immigration Law without any understanding of the implementation of this in the real world. This is Immigration policy, and it would seem obvious that Immigration officers are given a lot of freedom to enforce this as they feel is necessary and they are free to make on-the-spot judgement calls. Is it any different in your country?

I already said we should leave the discussion here, and that is what I will do. No doubt you'll want the last word, and you're welcome to it.

[elviajero]

People can get into a lot of trouble listening to advice such as yours on here.

You made an statement in an earlier and now it seems you're trying to hard to retract. On one had you stated that there is no limit on tourist visas, and then on the other hand you stated that a tourist visa doesn't give anyone a right to enter.

Exactly how could anyone get in to trouble!

If you can't understand the difference between these two statements then there's no point to our discussion.

"there is no limit on tourist visas"

"a tourist visa doesn't give anyone a right to enter"

It amounts to the same thing. They are double checking tourist visa holders at border entry points, so there is a practical limit on tourist visas for most people. If that were not so they would just be letting everyone straight through with a tourist visa, no questions asked and these forum threads would not exist.

Regarding people getting into trouble. I already alluded to it by explaining how they treat different nationalities differently. I got into trouble because I was confident my gf would get a tourist visa and spent the time and money travelling to Laos. What I should have realized is that one shoe does not fit all and that most people who post on here giving visa advice are from the wealthier nations and they are not treated the same.

I would think that discrimination based on nationality would be policy decision, not a written law?

You keep citing Immigration Law without any understanding of the implementation of this in the real world. This is Immigration policy, and it would seem obvious that Immigration officers are given a lot of freedom to enforce this as they feel is necessary and they are free to make on-the-spot judgement calls. Is it any different in your country?

Not the same thing at all. The first is fact based on the fact that there is no limit in any immigration law/rule/policy. Do not confuse that with the fact that Embassies/Consulates can refuse someone a TR if they cannot meet criteria. The second relates to the fact that even if you are granted a visa that visa alone doesn't give you the right to enter. That decision is with the IO.

Just because your gf was denied a visa doesn't mean the next person will. How many (I assume young) Filipino girls can afford to visit/live in Thailand for long periods without working, and how many are here illegally working. Not many and a lot! So of course they will have a harder time getting a visa, and at borders, than middle aged westerners. Discrimination or common sense?

I've lived here 19 years, and before getting married I spent years (under 50) on TR's and assorted visas, so I have far more "real world" experience than most. You need to understand that immigration policy doesn't change much. It's simple. They don't want foreigners taking jobs here illegally and multiple use of visa exempt entry and TR's has been on immigrations radar for years because of that. It's nothing new! How they go about policing universal policy varies over time. Some people are hard done by, but most people enter this country time and time again without a problem because, for the most part, IO's play within the rules and their authority. Rules and authority that I will continue to cite until they change or multiple reports prove otherwise.

Edited September 6, 2015 by elviajero

[tropo]

Not the same thing at all.

It is exactly the same thing. There is a limit on tourist visas, which is determined by IO at point of entry. Did you forget what this thread is actually about.

Even so, consulates will not just keep giving out unlimited tourist visas to anyone.

Having been here 19 years, but only just joined this community, there's a lot you have missed. Back when you were doing it it was very easy to get triple entry tourist visas at any consulate. Time have changed a lot since then.

Edited September 6, 2015 by tropo